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Home » Forum » Sacred Feminine » Male dominated church
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Name: Jamie1970  •  Title: Male dominated church  •  Date posted: 02/27/07 14:01
Q: At what point did the church modify its position on Mary Magdalene? 
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Name: Heather  •  Date: 02/27/07 16:02
A: It was Christian fathers in the fourth century. Mary of Bethany was confused for Mary Magdalene in the Gospel of John annointing Jesus' feet. This linked her with the unnamed sinner in Luke, and then she could be identified with any female sinner as a repentant whore. If Mary was at the foot of the cross, and Jesus loved her as he did all his followers, why else would she have this reputation in Christianity if it wasn't for the male dominated church? 
Name: Abigail  •  Date: 02/27/07 16:34
A: Plus, in the New Testament, Jesus appeared to her first after the resurrection, which shows their closeness. And she was one of the first to go to the tomb after the crucifixion. 
Name: Gram  •  Date: 02/27/07 16:49
A: At the moment the church realised who and what Mary really was. Mary was the most beloved one. Handling jesus feet with her hair is an ritual that belonged to another "religion". The church would loose there power if they spoke the truth about this. Loosing power....yes...there we are again.. 
Name: NormaPorter  •  Date: 02/27/07 19:28
A: I believe that the christain fathers wanted to have a religion that fit their wants and needs. Females cast as lowely and sinful, men as all powerful. The text was edited as they went along and as they converted new regions into the church new isead and holidays were added as they liked. 
Name: factfinding  •  Date: 02/28/07 0:59
A: If Magdalene was a factor, then it would have been reflected in the four Gospel accounts of Jesus Christ. Just the fact that she barely got a mention, and a minor one at that, shows that the Early Church leadership (eyewitnesses) knew she was no factor.
http://www.youtu-be.com/watch?v=cm1Z2-ujzt-E- 
Name: MWAnderson  •  Date: 02/28/07 23:27
A: It is amazing--no, not really--that the same "Jesus-Troll" has visited most of these topics and posted completely bogus information in the guise of Theology, as in the previous post. IMO, this individual is either misinformed, or is intentionally distorting basic mainstream theology.

Things to observe and compare:

Rightwing-conservative political "shout-them-down" tactics

AND

Reactions to this film BEFORE IT HAS EVEN AIRED.

Notice any similarites? 
Name: BeanSidhe  •  Date: 03/01/07 1:03
A: MorDeKhai isn't any better if these mainstream theologists wants to change us then they are doing it all wrong,
why do you think more and more people stop going to church because they don't like to be forced if they were more welcoming and loving then maybe i will reconsider going till then I will worship in a peaceful environment ... my home 
Name: bella  •  Date: 03/01/07 3:11
A: "If Mary was at the foot of the cross, and Jesus loved her as he did all his followers, why else would she have this reputation in Christianity if it wasn't for the male dominated church? "

The male dominant church certainly didn't help, and they didn't help by getting rid of everything they didn't like: which incidentally holds an explanation for this, which is that the soul is considered a prostitute and is referenced as feminine when it is lost. Certainly the metaphor has been lost among all the literally interpretation of spirituality. 
Name: SpiritWoman  •  Date: 03/01/07 16:39
A: I find it a bit ironic that this documentary will do the same thing to those patrilineal forefathers who sold Mary Magdelene's body as a prostitute to the Chrisitians the same way as the sold Jesus fleshly resurrection.

Forever silencing Mary's Wisdom to the World, so they did the same to the true message of Christ.

As the forefathers of the chrisitan faith turned Mary into a prostitute and we know now is a lie, so did they turn the theory of Jesus "bodily" ressurection for thier own prophet.

As human's worship personal Flesh above everything else, so they worship the flesh of thier G_D and it is most prominent in thier own egos that fear of physical death. So they cling to the material vision of the flesh in Spirit instead of the other way around. And so the demise of the christian faith?

I say not. It is but an Awakening to the truth!

Why be blinded to the true message of Jesus; of His WORD & WORKS.........His demonstration of Proof that only the flesh dies but the power of Spirit is Infinite? Awakening.........His spirit within us ALL. And the True Life that of which we all have, but are unwilling to partake.

What a true eye opener.

Man cannot live by bread alone. It's truly the Spirit within each and every living thing that speaks the word of Christ. And Jesus is Proof.

Listen.

Peace
SW


Peace
SW 
Name: osirius608  •  Date: 03/01/07 19:46
A: factfinding needs some help in getting the blinders taken off...everyone else here has very valid points that I applaud! Most of all, Gram sees the power in power that IS the essence of what is followed today, brainwashing! Once you realize, after you hopefully do some research, that Christianity didn't really get rolling until two centuries AFTER Yeshua's death, and that ONE person was charged to figure out which stories to include, which ones to leave out because they didn't support certain "angles" (Book of Enoch and Philip for starters), and that it was sponsored by religious zealots who wanted power just like the king, except instead of money they wanted minds...everything else that exudes power (kind of like our current President, except he's going for the money too!). Religious men who were not allowed life with women becuase of past practices and saw them as wicked...what better way to silence those who have the power to reveal evil than to point the finger right them?! 
Name: Gram  •  Date: 03/02/07 16:23
A: There are more interesting things. Mary was the most beloved one. It is said that she understood more then anyone else. How is that possible? Did Jesus teach her? If not who did ? Jesus also took away seven evil spirits. seven ???? euh .. alarm started to ring. Six or eight or whatever number would not ring the alarm. But seven.. Sounds like a very sacred and holy ritual. Mary far more important then we realise ? Or shall we say the "Sacred Feminine" is far more important. 
Name: Lore  •  Date: 03/02/07 18:11
A: Here's a few places you might want to visit or join if you're interested in Mary Magdalene:

The oldest and most respected discussion list concerning Mary Magdalene. Margaret Starbird, Ki Longfellow, Joan Norton, Dr. Jim Gardner and other well-known authors post regularly

http://groups.yahoo.com/gro-up/magdalene-list/

Order- of Mary Magdala discussion list
http://groups.yahoo.com/group-/MaryMagdalaOrder/

Goddess- Christian discussion list
http://groups.yahoo.com/gro-up/goddesschristians/

Th-e- goddess-Christian oriented Esoteric Mystery School
http://www.northernway.org/school.html 
Name: Lore  •  Date: 03/03/07 1:32
A: She's mentioned more often than any other woman except Mother Mary (who's virginal role was a much later invention), She is the only woman who is referred to by a title and one of only a few NT characters who are identified by more than a first name: Jesus of Nazareth, John the Baptist, Pontius Pilate, Simon Peter, Judas Iscariot, Simon of Cyrene, Joseph of Arimathea. Since this cast of characters is central, putting her into their company makes her central too.

She was important enough that her role could not be completely written out of the canonical gospels, even though it could be downplayed. This downplaying of her importance took a vicious turn when Pope Gregory, in a homily in 591, conflated her with the fallen sinner (which the Bible does not support) and termed her a prostitute. Describing a woman with a sexual slur was a death knell to her creditability, a defamation that her reputation could not recover from.

In the 1940s, the Nag Hammadi scrolls were found. Among them were texts that proved Mary Magdalene was Yeshua's closest companion, closer than any of the male apostles. These scrolls were suppressed for more than twenty years. I don't believe it is a coincidence that the Roman Catholic Church issued a statement (in the late 1960s) acknowledging that Mary Magdalene is not identified as a sinner or a prostitute in the New Testament just as scholars were forcing the release of the Nag Hammadi scriptures. 
Name: Misty  •  Date: 03/05/07 7:46
A: I was reading somewhere that Constantine did some modifications too. I guess I need to check into that to make sure.
And yes...the male dominated church got rid of a lot of things from the bible. Anything that was not to their liking or just too controversial was taken out. What a pity. 
Name: anne  •  Date: 03/06/07 2:22
A: When they discovered that they have a watering can 
Name: calleydog  •  Date: 03/08/07 14:09
A: It never did. This question contains some hidden and faulty assumptions. First, it believes a later and discredited document about the role of Mary Magdalene over and against earlier and attested documents in the New Testament canon. Second, it assumes that men, in their desire to subjugate women, simply covered up the role of important women leaders in the early church. The fact is, women never had the role of elders/bishops/episcopoi. Women were important and led in important ways, but were always subject to men just as we in the body of Christ are subject to its Head, Jesus Christ.

So the church never switched positions on this issue. Has anyone here taken time to read Irenaeus? Any of the church fathers? 
Name: factfinding  •  Date: 03/08/07 16:59
A: TO: osirius608

Jesus Christ Himself told His 12 Disciples in Matthew 24:3-5......

"As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many."

Jesus Christ told them to pay attention and watch out for those people that would be the deceivers and would distort the truth about Him. He didn't tell anyone else...including this Magdalene, not even His own Mother. Why was that? Answer: He didn't trust anyone else to present the truth about Him or His true message to the world. 
Name: Achaney  •  Date: 03/10/07 7:21
A: I know one thing for sure, and thats women rule in my life, how dare the Catholic church take them away from me! :)

Okay serious now.

It was during the first council of nicae, which Emporer COnstanine gathered up the usual suspects to invoke christianity and remove THE WAY. Catholic doctrine has developed ever since. In the year 600 A.D., about that time, the Pope started calling himself above others, such as kings and such, that the nations must go through him. Anti-christ?

Old records show that Jesus had female disciples (no not talking about the lost books of the bible) and could run as leaders and preachers.

I am just very happy for women now, the discovery of the tomb will show the catholic church to stop horrifying the womb! Women can now fully and truthfully convery their natural abilities and principles which are gifts. As the scientist said on Jurassic park, "Life will find a way". 
Name: Achaney  •  Date: 03/10/07 7:35
A: Jesus spoke in allegory, much like freemasons do to their own, and he conveyed messages to prepare the way (in hidden meanings), to get ready to bombard the roman occupancy in the holy land. Why do you think some of them were carrying swords? They belieive the end times were at hand. They were using the exact methods of the maccabeans as found in the coded messages in the Dead Sea Scrolls, which Jesus was a member.

If you recall, John the Baptist even questions JEsus messiahship, "Are we to look for another?", so John sends two of his VERY OWN DISCIPLES to JEsus and ask him this.

But what does Jesus say? RIng Ding Ding Ding!

Mathew 11:5 "The Blind Recieve their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, THE DEAD ARE RAISED UP, and the poor have the gospel preached to them."

Jesus was quoting Isaiah 61:1 (as Christian Scholars admit themselves) in regards to this passage from Mathew. What is funny, is that Jesus used extra words, "THE DEAD ARE RAISED UP", and you dont find that in Isaiah 61:1 or any other related Old Testament passage. You dont find it any bible, nor the greek version or masoretic text, but you do find it in the, ring ding ding ding, DEAD SEA SCROLLS!

Jesus knew them and was a member, he was an essene, preparing for battle against the Romans at the time by having sword wielding companions with him, who were zealots as well.

I just hope they dont burn Simcha at the stake as the church have always done for those who speak and act against the church. Oops! I am sorry, they dont do that anymore, they use the CIA now.

Best Regards to Mary Magdalene and all women. You are released, go in peace my angels. 
Name: lady andromeda  •  Date: 03/13/07 4:53
A: Achaney, If you are interested in a *completely different* view of John the Baptist's relationship with Jesus then I STRONGLY urge you to read the Mandaean books. The Book of YahYa or John. It also mentions *a MIRYAI* who seemed to have been a Priestess or teacher of sorts. I personally believe she might have *possibly* been our dear MARY MAGDALENE. She was taught by the Mandaeans. She is also discussed in the Book of YahYa or John. Just take a look at it sometime. It was VERY enlightening to me. Take care now. 
Name: Achaney  •  Date: 03/13/07 21:40
A: Interesting. I will check it out. I need more books like that for my continuing research. 
Name: HoaxBusting  •  Date: 03/14/07 3:49
A: What?! Should we start reporting people. I know what a ban of Trolls looks like; no-one has come close to acting like a Troll Just read what is written..U might guess that MWAnderson has received (uncommon) courtesy from EVERYBODY; if you still doubt that I guess it's your affair. Thanx 
Name: joe joe  •  Date: 03/16/07 2:53
A: I think that it was in 1969.

That number seems to come to my head... 
Name: sage  •  Date: 03/26/07 21:05
A: Calleydog said:
Women were important and led in important ways, but were always subject to men just as we in the body of Christ are subject to its Head, Jesus Christ.

Ugh, are you really that ignorant? Women did not always bow to men to serve them, for many, many years, in countless cultures it was the opposite. Women were worshipped as the bringers of life, they carried the sacred womb of life within them. Learn about some of the smaller belief systems, the ones that never required permission from anyone and because they were independent, they were wiped out by crusaders and other murderers in the name of religion.

Knowledge is never a waste of time. That's my mantra.. 
Name: revelation616  •  Date: 03/27/07 23:45
A: As Jesus said in the Gospel of Thomas. I will make Mary male. From that point Mary was always a Master. The Law of Reversal is set. Mary Magdalene will come to be known as a Master, the bride of Christ. One half of the divine Source energy. Mother Mary will come to be seen as a whore, who gave birth to a Son, a bastard child, who became the Christ, the Saviour of all of Mankind. What a powerful statement for all Mankind when we come to understand the divine femine at this time. All men will become christs in time. All women are goddesses of the divine female, the Spirit. Remember the Living God is really the Goddess masculinized by males in the Church. Creation is the universe. This is the Goddess. The breath of God, the Spirit of the Creator, the Mystery, the Void into which the universe expands. God has always been the Unknown Father. The Dazzling Darkness. The Mystery. A paradox. And a paradox it must remain. Forget the Mystery and step into the Wonder of Life. Be a child of the Goddess and return to the indestructible innocence that you were born with. 
Name: Anchorite  •  Date: 03/28/07 3:21
A: Hi revelation616,

Good stuff. I love the Christ in every man and the Goddess in every woman. The perpetual hope. Maybe not some day soon but eventually yes. Thanks! 
Name: Panluna  •  Date: 04/06/07 17:28
A: Lilith Adam's first wife defied him so God made Eve from his rib.Was she actually supposed to be his sister or wife?And what happened to Lilith?Was she the consort of the shape-shifting creature that tempted Eve in the garden?And is this the hereditary origin of magikal abilities exhibited by a limited number of humans in the course of our existance.
Were the patriarchs so jealous of the abilities and the wisdom of the Sacred femine that they felt they had to suppress the true nature of being.Are woman really a threat to the masculine Divine?Or is it because men don't understand women?Why can't we just get along with each other.
Mary Magdalene was viewed as embodying both aspects of the good-and-evil coin.It made her human and accesable ,easy to identify with in the medieval mind-set when the Grail legends became more popular cult fiction. 
Name: Anchorite  •  Date: 04/06/07 21:40
A: On the subject of male precariousness...

The Loser

Her beauty took My sight away
It threw a shadow On the day
No view could Satisfy my mind
And when she left I'd rather blind

Her laugh did Wrinkle in my ear
A sound of babies Not a fear
It made me cringe To think she could
Fly innocent Above us wood

She knows her way She has her ground
Us sorry cannot Hang around
My heart she made A mortal be
She'll never have Her way with me

His magnitude Did black the day
He stood a stand To quell the weak
And when he slowly Took her hand
I felt my future Getting bleak

His laugh did pound My heart apart
A hero and a Victor's start
He knows the way He has a plan
Us sorry he Will soon command

No irony in Heaven's blend
But still I wish An awful end

~Anchorite 
Name: Panluna  •  Date: 04/07/07 1:17
A: Anchorite,
Good poem!!!!!!Have you thought of entering your poetry in any contests?I've sent mine to the International Society of Poets ....Poetry.com.Also Famous Poets.com .I've gotten mine published over the past 40 years.I haven't written much lately but my horoscope says to take a break for awhile.This blogging helps with writter's block.Poetry is much more difficult to write. 
Name: Anchorite  •  Date: 04/07/07 17:30
A: Thanks!

I've entered a couple - negative experience.

I've slowed down lately. I write more when I'm in anguish. Seem to be too cheerful of late! It is not a deliberate process. Mostly spontaneous.

Your praise is my reward. Thanks again!

On the subject of sex and politics...

NOT I

I'll marry you but it won't be pleasant
You'll never get a present
My rolling eyes you'll see a lot
And titch of tongue and shake of head
I'll hide my money gotten
Round the back of trade
And when you step outa the room
Slander will degrade
Our children to my politics
And 'gainst your every said
Your sleep will come three hours late
Your eyes will bulge with red
Within a month of honeymoon
We'll opt for separate beds
So Honeypie you'll want me dead
Or else you'll want to die
The effort of a happiness
Too much oh no not I

~Anchorite 
Name: calleydog  •  Date: 04/26/07 18:22
A: sage said, "Ugh, are you really that ignorant? Women did not always bow to men to serve them, for many, many years, in countless cultures it was the opposite. Women were worshipped as the bringers of life, they carried the sacred womb of life within them. Learn about some of the smaller belief systems, the ones that never required permission from anyone and because they were independent, they were wiped out by crusaders and other murderers in the name of religion."

Answer: I think you're confusing goddess worship with the actual treatment of women in ancient civilizations. True, fertility goddesses were worshipped and venerated. But if you'll check the credible primary sources--and here let me say that I've seen a lot of indiscriminate use of highly suspect sources and no sources at all--you'll see that women were treated miserably in most every society. Women have never been freer than what they have attained in Western Christendom following the principles of Jesus and the apostle Paul.

Actual leadership or good treatment of women was the rare exception. See many women pharoahs? Any ladies on the Sumerian king lists? Women Holy Roman Emperors?

Or maybe Constantine just went back and changed all these records too. 
Name: calleydog  •  Date: 04/26/07 18:24
A: P.S. Sage, would you care to list say, one or two of the "countless" cultures where actual women ruled and were venerated, where, as you say, things were the exact opposite. If they are countless, there should be at least one or two we can agree come from a reliable source and not a legend or fairy tale.

Thanks, buddy. 
Name: Panluna  •  Date: 04/29/07 15:22
A: Calleydog,
The Queen of Sheba,Ishtar,The White Tara any society that was smart enough to recognise the female importance and role.Before humans had sex education or medical study the female of any species was held in AWE for the ability to bring forth new life.Read 365 Goddesses by Patricia Telesco if you want any ideas of how to venerate the Feminine Divine.The most important point is to respect the females in your life. 

Jesus of Nazareth Mary Magdalene: Mariamne Early Christianity
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