Name:sam •
Title: A Counterfeit “Jesus”? Christians being misled. •
Date posted: 08/20/07 14:46
Q: A Counterfeit “Jesus”?
Christians being misled. Religious leaders have taught a counterfeit ‘Jesus’ for centuries.
From “Jesus family tomb”, At the bottom of the page, of the “Gospel of Luke: The genealogy of Jesus” you will come to notice this subject “Christians being misled”.
After I read it, I thought to bring to this forum to hear the others opinion.
Here few lines which I thought that are giving us a true picture about the developments of Christianity.
-Many ideas and practices that have absolutely no scriptural basis have been accepted by mainstream Christianity. These practices, introduced gradually by false teachers, have been accepted through tradition.
-For example, many Christians have grown up exposed to illustrations of what they believe to be the Son of God. Most artists’ renderings of Jesus picture him in a helpless state, at the beginning or end of his life—either as a newborn or hanging on a cross.
In much of Christianity today there has been a shift toward a new center, which may loosely be described as a shift from mind to emotion. The modern demand is for a religious “worship” experience that stresses feelings above reason, logic and doctrine.
For many, the final authority in matters of faith and morals is no longer the Word of God, but the inner workings of the human mind. Some denominations view the Bible as merely a historical document requiring human interpretation to correct its “errors.”
When one does not understand the “simplicity in Christ” and allow the Bible to interpret itself, the inevitable result is to soon be unwittingly following a very different savior .
The Jesus commonly spoken of in the large denominations of accepted Christianity promotes the idea that keeping God’s divine laws is no longer needed because they have been “nailed to the cross.” All a Christian must do is “accept and believe in him” to be assured a place in heaven. Beguiled by this notion, the majority reject the seventh-day Sabbath, the annual Holy Days and other truths of the Bible, leaving an open door for a host of non-biblical practices. The first-century apostles resisted this slippery path into lawlessness, but many believers allowed themselves to be led astray.
Observed objectively, when you compare the worship described in the Bible to modern Christianity, they appear as two totally different religions. The terminology is similar, like counterfeit labels on bootleg items. The names of the lead characters are the same, but the substance is different. Do “Christianized” traditions of men honor God—or someone else?
If you read the whole article [including ‘the related literature], you will find them very interesting.
God bless you.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 08/20/07 16:21
A: It would be diffucult for followers to live by the exact letter of the words spoken especially since the majority of people never met the real Jesus.there were only hand-ful of people who lived at his time and their interpretations of his teachings are written in the gospels as a testament to his life,death and legacy.
Portaying Jesus as an innocent baby--born with the knowledge of the Cosmic Sea--and then destroyed in the prime of his life by enemies who misunderstood him will always be the way the Art of this world sees him.
Our world is much more complicated than it was in the 1st century and with the exception of a few individuals most people find it diffucult to live the simple life and follow God's laws to the letter of His Words even though they are the cornerstone of our laws.It's human nature.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 08/21/07 14:42
A: Hi Sam,
I read all of the ads on the side of this forum along with the suggestions for books to read and my library collection has grown.Today is URANTIA CHRISTMAS--I'll light my candle and burn some Frankinsence and Myrrh incense and wish Jesus a Happy Birthday.I made a charity donation yesterday.If you have chance to, read THE URANTIA BOOK.It will explain this date ,August 21st and alot of other things.You can find it on line.
Name:sam •
Date: 08/21/07 21:18
A: Hi Panluna,
A- "It would be diffucult for followers to live by the exact letter of the words spoken especially since the majority of people never met the real Jesus."
THAT IS WRONG, most of Jesus words are recorded, and those are easy to understand and to follow, but the Christians [when Christianity moved to Rome] followed Paul's and the Roman's words, this is a fact.
----- Jesus lived very short and simple life, and His teaching [ministry] was less than tree years. He journeyed around and spoke His words, and the few who were whith Him and who heard His voice and witnessed everything, wrote about it later on , and of course when thing is written after long time, the memories sometime might fail in bringing the exact words, so some can be missed and others can be added, to make thing looks great.
As you know, some of those who been inside His circle are well known, Mary Magdalene, James, Barnabas, etc., and those wrote the things that they witness, but what they wrote [and that was the real things and the truth] was rejected by YOUR FATHERS in Rome, instead they choose what they prefer, Mark and Luke those who never been with Jesus, but they are the friends and students of Paul.
The saints/catholic online they brought their stories and here some:
"Luke, the writer of the Gospel and the Acts of the Apostles, has been identified with St. Paul's "
"We have to go to Acts to follow the trail of Luke's Christian ministry. We know nothing about his conversion [!!!!] but looking at the language of Acts we can see where he joined Saint Paul."
"Luke is the loyal comrade who stays with Paul when he is imprisoned in Rome about the year 61"
"St. Mark was associated with St. Paul and St. Barnabas "
"St. Mark wrote the second Gospel, probably in Rome sometime before the year 60 A.D"
" St. Mark was REQUESTED BY THE ROMANS to set down the teachings of St. Peter. This seems to be confirmed by the position which St. Peter has in this Gospel. In this way the second Gospel is a record of the life of Jesus AS SEEN THROUGH THE EYES OF the Prince of the Apostles. "
{The life of Jesus as seen from someone else eyes!!!}.
Then, here what we read about John:
"He probably took up his abode finally in Ephesus in 97. In the persecution of Domitian he was taken to Rome, and was placed in a cauldron of boiling oil, outside the Latin gate, without the boiling fluid doing him any injury. [Eusebius makes no mention of this. THE LEGEND of the boiling oil occurs in Tertullian and in Saint Jerome]."
{THE LEGEND, and there are so many myths and legends in the gospels, and people believed in them as true things back then, but I cannot understand that there are still so many people believe in them today!!!.}
"He was sent to labor at the mines in Patmos. At the accession of Nerva he was set free, and returned to Ephesus, and there it is thought that he wrote his gospel"
{Are they sure that he wrote that gospel or someone else wrote it? and was he an eye witness if he wrote it?. " This is the disciple who is testifying to these things and wrote these things, AND WE [WE] KNOW THAT HIS [HIS] TESTIMONY IS TRUE. by John}
B- "there were only hand-ful of people who lived at his time and their interpretations of his teachings are written in the gospels as a testament to his life,death and legacy."
---- Sorry to say that the interpretations which came in the gospels for the teaching of Jesus were mostly WRONG.
One REV said: "it is not important what Jesus said, but what He meant"
So the Christians, they do not follow what Jesus said, but what they think He meant, as for examle, If He mentioned Himself as the 'son of man', but the clever Paul knows better than Jesus , and he knows that Jesus meant 'the son of God' . And the people on Rome interpreted his words that He is the God, while Jesus said that there is only one God, the God who sent Him and He cannot do anything at His own etc.
God bless you.
And if Jesus said, "I did not come to abolish the laws".. Paul and the Romans will abolish the laws. Jesus was a Jew and He followed Moses commandments [God commandments], but the others created new religion and changed all the laws.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 08/22/07 15:05
A: I believe that Jesus tried to improve humankinds plight by teaching compassion and giving us hope.The gospels may not be quoted exactly to the words of Jesus and his teachings but any artifact: scrolls,ossuaries,tombs etc that existed in his time on earth are genuine.How someone would interpret his teachings is literally up to the individual.There's a saying"you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.It's the same with people.You can tell them something or show it to that person but they have to decide for themselves how it serves their purpose.Of course if it's drilled into them or forced on them then it's much more diffucult to change one's mind and perceptions.Education teaches people to think--and a mind is a terrible thing to waste.
If the BOOK OF LOVE written by Jesus is found--it should actually be a scroll written by his hand --we will then have a good idea of how he viewed his world.Some legends say that it was brought to Gaul by the early Cathars after Mary Magdalene gave it to them.It was their most prized possession and dissapeared when they were exacuted by the papal army.
If you are interested Hannity And Colmes --a program on the Fox News network is doing a series of segments about various religions Tuesday and Sundays.Last night they featured The Stigmata which affected St Francis of Assissi and Father Pio---I know I called him Padre Pio on my post but Padre is Spanish for father.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 08/22/07 15:15
A: After reading one of the articles about Satan destroying the church--I don't agree with the thought or the accusation.The Truth never lies or hurts anyone if one accepts it.The late Tammy Faye used to say "If life hands you lemons make lemonade".Make the Truth an ally--it's a good weapon for survival.And the scales have fallen and the veil has been lifted go forth with 20/20 vision.
Name:sam •
Date: 08/23/07 19:26
A: Panluna,
"The Truth never lies or hurts anyone if one accepts it."
----- That is wrong. when people believe taught something for thousand of years and that was the truth for them, as that of Jesus is God, or the son of God and he was asccended to heaven and sat on the right hand of God, and many other things, then the real truth came to tell them that the truth which they believe in for so long was just false teachings, for sure that will hurt, and you cannot deny this fact. A person who belive that he was misled, I do not pelive that he will be happy when he discover the truth.
"The late Tammy Faye used to say "If life hands you lemons make lemonade".Make the Truth an ally--it's a good weapon for survival."
---- Tammy Faye, and her husband and their church they made a lot of LEMONADES, and they made a lot of $$$$$.
I did watch their shows, and I did read about their scandals, and they did use their weapon "the church" for many other things beside survivals, they did make a fortunes and that shows all over her.
Tammy Faye, Jim, Jimmy, and many others all they make a lot of LEMONADE.
Go to CNN and watch tonight program "the Christians-God's warriors" at 9 PM.
"And the scales have fallen and the veil has been lifted."
----- In the last two centuries the VEIL is lifted to show us the truth about everything that goes on in the churches from the dark age when the churches killed and burned people to this age when the churches became a ground for making fortunes and a ground for scandals. The truth will never die.
God bless you.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 08/23/07 23:29
A: Hi Sam
And the Truth is everlasting--just like God as long we believe....
Name:sam •
Date: 08/24/07 0:47
A: Panluna,
You never come to accept the truth. The truth which you try to avoid because you are lost and you are not sure where to go.
The truth that came by the world of Jesus and followed by the word of God in the Quran, but you are still attached to the church teaching, one way or another, and still following Paul and the Romans and their teachings.
In your post dated [08-10-07] you told the truth about yourself when you said :
"Because there were too many contradictions and I had more questions than answers [that is of course in the church teachings], is the reason why I decided to join the NEW AGE MOVEMENT.It gave me more freedom to learn about religion and faith and then I could think and decide for myself what I felt is the right spiritual path for me.Without judgement I made my choices."
It started with Paul developments, and follow it, the Roman catholic movement , then from it another movement created, and from them countless movements were created in many different names.
Then after the Jews came to create more movements in the west!!!, they never believen in Jesus or His teaching, but for political reason they need the Christians support, and they offered rewards [$$$] to some churches [LEMONADE] and the money came from the billions of dollars which they receive from the west [the christians].
SO, Panluna, You are thinking about moving from the old age movement to THE NEW AGE MOVEMENT!!!
First who created this movement?, second are the teaching of the new differ from the old?
There is another movement that betty47, found [08-12-07] to be the right one "It's called MESSIANIC JUDAISM" !!!.
She said: "It's a good intersection of Jewish and Christian beliefs".
---What a joke!!!, the only one who belive in such a marriage are the stupid and the one who created it, and those who brought this just as a tool to get support to steal more land and to kill more muslims.
That intersection in those two beliefs cannot be true or right for these reasons.
- The Jews follow their Bible [the Torah], and they believe that Jesus is a false prophet, and the gospels are the devil work. The Jews today still believe in what they been taught for two thousand years, and they will never accept Jesus or the churches or the christians who killed millions of them, but they will try to invade the churches for the reason of making benefits.
- The christians, I don't think they will forget that the Jews who are the ones who are responsible for the death of their God, and His followres, to become their partners, that is except if there is a benefits of that marriage.
- The Jews try to kill the christians, then the christians want to kill the Jews, and now they joined hands to kill the muslims. They are well known for killing and distruction, the history tells you the truth, that is if you wanted first to accept this truth.
- Muslims believe in the messages of Abraham and Moses and Jesus, and they believe in them as the messengers of God, and they do respect their people, but the Jews and the christians never respected each other at the first place.
- When the new movement churches, came to put the CROSS and the STAR OF DAVID, and the American FLAG on the side of the Israel FLAG, that make the place not the house of God to worship God but a house of politics, and the money collected not go for the poor but to by arms for killing the others, and that is not from the teaching of Jesus.
- the Jews and the Christians are creating new churches and new movements and new laws, differ from the laws of God.
- In a Program on CNN, two day ago [the Jews- God's warriors] they show how the Jews in the US control the two houses and the policy of the state and how they created those groop of churces for their supports and they show you by picture and numbers the money collected from the Americans, and what goes in US it is the same in every christian country.
You are run today by the Jews AND THEY CONTROL YOU , you like it or not, and you are serving them, the have the carrot [money and media]. THEY ARE THE SMART ONES.
QUESTION. are you seeking a new new movement, or seeking the truth?
God bless you.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 08/24/07 15:23
A: Hi Sam,
I watched God's Warriors last night.I'm going to catch the other two episodes this weekend when they are retelevised.Since everything old is new again and everything new gets old just to be rediscovered I feel that information is just recycled in new packaging then viewed in a new light the first time some one finds it.What a loop!! I'm glad I'm not stuck with the religious mind-set.I like to analyze and examine subjects on my own.
And then determine my own conclusions.Education is a necessity if we want to advance in life.Well to each their own...live and let live.truth in Nature takes care of it...
Name:betty47 •
Date: 08/30/07 5:46
A: Take a look at www.camera.org for information on the show "God's Warriors". Many are very critical of the series as being too kind on Muslim fanatics.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 08/30/07 18:51
A: Betty,
I thought the program---CNN's GOD'S WARRIORS--- was good enough to win an Emmy award.Prior to the release of the Lost Tomb Of Jesus on TV this past March I was researching Etruscans and the Gods/Goddesses of ancient Greece.I had no idea what the real conflict was in the Middle East---I thought it was because of the attacks and consequent hunt for the culprits-----who are considered criminals and murderers in the U.S. and the other countries victimised by these terrorists.I know the hatred runs deep and the feud has been an ancient and long running one ---- and when and how will it end? ----When the last person dies?
Name:sam •
Date: 08/31/07 0:10
A: betty47,
"Take a look at www.camera.org for information on the show "God's Warriors". Many are very critical of the series as being too kind on Muslim fanatics. "
The camera .org, are an organized group media, which represent the Jews and the christians warrior and they have a great influential power over the masses of the christian and Jews world, and thet try to make from small crime a huge one, and they hide their own big crimes. The movies can show film about Jesus as if it is Jesus himself and how much he suffer, so people cannot hold back their tears, and the priest behind his bench can make people believe in every word he says. Hitler did that and million of Jews were killed, all because the people sometime they do not use their brain and THE LOGIC & COMMON SENCE!!!.
The same I can see in your judgment, you been taken by the words of the others without using your brain!!!, and you limiting yourself to the small picture (camera), forgeting that if you look as the whole picture then and only then you will see the whole truth. Wake up betty47.
Those who are critical of the series from the side of the the Jews and the christians warriors, are those the same one who cover up their barbaric crimes all over the world for many centuries (the big picture).
The crimes which the Jews and christian prensented here are crimes from individuals, criminal that all muslims coutries do not agree with, and 99% of the muslims do not agree with, and the teaching of that religion (that is if you really know the truth) never accept killing of innocent people:
Q- 5:32 WHOEVER KILLS A SOUL unless for a soul or for corruptin done in land , IT IS AS IF SLAIN MANKIND ENTIRELY. And WHOEVER SAVES ONE IT IS AS IF HE HAD SAVED MANKIND ENTIRELY.
And OUR messengers (all God messengers-Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad) had come to them with clear proofs (it was written in the Bible and the Gospels and the Quran). Then indeed many of them [even] after that, throughout the land, were trangressors.
Here we see the truth in what was mentioned in this holy book. And it is the laws, and the same laws that came in the commandments "YOU SHAL NOT KILL" period , etc., but some people kept killing and those who follow and respect God's laws, their hands were tides up, and the killers had the protection by that law (as we see in todays laws, the killer and the drug dealers, and the crook politicians can be protected by laws). The last message came to bring an end to all that. A killer like Hitler or Ben Laden or the many around the world like them can be judged for their crime and get the right punishments, as the same as a person who kill another person for no reason.
Of course, "The camera .org", as the whole created program on CNN, they did not bring images of the Jews warriors who came from Europe, fully armed and had the experience of killing , to steal other people land and kill the people with no arms and throw one and half million men women and childre out of their homes and farms, all that done with the help of the christians super power countries, whom their warriors been killing people all around the world (read the history books, and read your bible again, then read Jesus words).
And the christian warriors they did not show anything at all about their crimes!!!. What about the killing of 600 thaousand (after a big christian lie and from the biggest liers in the world). and they did not show the distruction of a peaceful contry. all what we see today (forget the lies) is the result of the christian and jews warriors.
They did not show the BARBARIC attack on Lebanon, which was OK by the US!!!. read what the former president Carter said about it. Only few honest people left in that country who can speek the truth and not afraid from the Evangelicans/republicans and their dogs.
they did not show the French christian warriors who try to steal the Algerians land to make it part of France!!!. the did not show the killings of 2 millions Algerians and the thousand of villages that been burned, while they strugled for their freedom. it happen in India , in Vietnam, in South Africa, and even in christian countries who suffer from the other christians (England, Ireland, France, Spain, Italy, Germany etc.)
....................-..................
Since- I brought some verses from the Quran, I sought it might be fair to bring some verses from the Bible, and here some from Leviticus:
And the Lord said to Moses,...say to the children of Israel,
-And if a man has sex relations with another man's wife, even the wife of his neighbour, he and she are certainly to be put to death.
(as we read in news, and see movies, it seems that men and women in the west have sexual relation with everyone outside their homes, there is a hardly a virgin teenager!!!.), (the christians an jews they do not follow god's law here, but the will follow their own law to kill muslims!!!)
-And the man who has sex relations with his father's wife has put shame on his father: the two of them are to be put to death; their blood will be on them.
(I read in the bible (i will find that later on) that one of the descendent of Abraham slept with his father's wife...)
-And if a man has sex relations with a man, the two of them have done a disgusting thing: let them be put to death; their blood will be on them.
(now men and women can be married to the same sex in some churches... and molesting children in the house of God are so many, but the business still as usual, what happen to the teachings of the bible?) (if the bible laws were implemented then half of the christians will be killed accordin to their own laws!!!)
-And if a man has sex relations with a beast, let him be put to death, and let the beast be put to destruction.
-And if a woman goes near a beast and has sex relations with it, you will put an end to the woman and the beast: their blood will be on them.
(A christian friend told me that he will not let his kids read many things in the bible, and i believe he is right after I read these things.)
.................-....................
betty- 47, I am against any killing period. the killing of animals or plants for no reason is a crime too. But what I feel from your post that you agree with the churches that promote the killing of the muslims and the others. we should not forget that the churches until very recently (19th century), promoted the killing of the American Indians, because they are less humans that the whites, and the accepted to slave the blacks because they are not equals to the whites (read your history).
betty47, Ben Laden and his followers are few thousands, and they teach hate and they send the stupid warriors to murder others, and the give them promiss that they will go to heaven.
But on the other side there are hundreds like him, and their followers by the hundreds of millions, they not only teach but preach the hate and they send their stupid warriors to kill the others, and they do too promiss them the heaven.
The people can teach and preach anything and everything they wanted on this earth, they can be good or bad, but can they take the place of God and deside for Him who is going to heaven or hell?, only the stupid who believe in such a thing, and there are millions of them out there. They created tens of thousands of saints (and the saints can JUDGE the angels "God's angels", and the created the popes and bishops and Imams, and they gave them power to forgive all the sins, WOW!!!. What happen to God's laws "you shall not kill or if you kill one soul as if you kill all humans"??????.
We humans makes the laws according to what we like, but the realities are different, that is if we believe in GOD. The killer will end in HELL and there is no way to run away, and God does not look at our credit card that been given to us by our tribe (Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindu etc.), or by, (male, female) or (black, white) or (rich, poor) or (king, slave), those cards are made by human and for human consumptions only, because God has the power and with HIM areHis angels they created different credit card for every living things on this earth, and the judgments will be according only to what we charge on our card by our own hands, and we will not be jedged unfairly, because HE gave us the laws in advance, and by those laws only we are judged.
God has no warriors on this earth, but His warriors are in heaven, and we have no way to escape, and no one can help us in that day, not Moses or Jesus or Muhammad can stand against God and His laws and deffend a murderer or a thief or a crook.
betty47, You think Jesus will let people who did not follow God's law "you shall not kill" sit with Him in heaven, just because they are christians and if so which one He will choose? the Roman catholics, the protestants, the Anglicans or the evangelicans? what about the Jews (they are His people too, are they and everybody else , will go to hell????.
If you know the answer to that please let me know.
God bless you.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 08/31/07 15:11
A: Sam,
Good one--I mean your answer.
God Bless You
Name:betty47 •
Date: 09/12/07 11:26
A: From Sam:
"you agree with the churches that promote the killing of the muslims and the others"
Sam:
This is the most horrible thing you've ever said and show me you are out of your mind.
Panula:
How can you say good answer. Did you read it? Don't pander to these fanatics.
I do not agree with killing anyone. You do not know me and can't even say such a thing. My doctor is a Muslim. Do you think I'd kill him? People are mad about God's warriors because it equate's Jewish and Christian violence with Islamic violence, and it's not even close. Muslim violence in the world is extreme and has been since centuries before there was ever an Israel. Those who refuse to stand up to tyrants will appease them. The problem in the world today in every conflict we see is because Muslims wish to take over the world just as Christianity wants to as well but Christians are not sending suicide bombers everywhere. I am not happy with Christian missionary work when it tries to convert people even though I ust to be a missionary. I have dropped my missionary work as being misguided. Europe can look the other way and try to appease their growing fanatical Muslim communities just as it did for a time when the Nazi's were rising, but Europe will end up in flames again.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 09/12/07 19:34
A: Hi Betty47,
Are you familiar with the quotation"You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinager?"You attacked me on three posts here as an appeaser and a sympathizer.Actually I choose to be neutral and objective.If the whole world goes up in flames it's because some one keeps stirring the pot of hatred in this world instead of using diplomacy.I know from your previous posts that you are disgruntled with your former Christian Faith to the point that you even advocated the destruction of priceless art treasures representing the Christian view and I can understand your need to find solace within a religion that was completely blamed for the death of your former Saviour but are you doing this out of guilt or do you really believe the teachings of Judaism? Or is this wholly political as far as you are concerned?Only you know the answer to this one.Look within.I know you chose the side you want to be on but is your rationale and are your motives pure?
When it come to the topic of Islam I don't really know enough about the religion or it's people to make a judgement at this time.I feel that Sam's and Roy's posts on this forum has given give some insight about Islam.Sam is more westernised and Roy lives in Istanbul.You can get an education from them.I don't know them personally as I have never met them.Not all the Moslims are involved with the Taliban and follow that maniac Usama Bin Laden's suicidal program.I could swear his followers are deluded,duped and brainwashed.Anyone in their right minds who is capable of clear and rational thinking wouldn't join that nutcase's army.Bin Laden is in his 70's and people do get senile at that age or hostile because of other menal disorders like Alzheimers etc..The Arabic people have contributed much to this world and have lived for centuries on the defensive because of invaders and they expanded their world domination which by now their empire is not as vast. as it used to be.When it comes to the ownership of the media it's actually the Federal Government----FOR THE PEOPLE AND BY THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES----that controls what we view--programming,published materials etc has to have Federal approval and is subject to the laws.Private ownership is like anything else it starts with an idea,gets developed,invested,sold and distributed and earns an income.That's basic economics..The beauty of a democracy is that anyone can follow this formula as long as the products comply with the rules and regulations of the laws.If they break the law then they are subject punishment,fines and lawsuits ---even public condemnation.
Programs like CNN's GOD's WARRIORS series and any news programs with a high impact on the viewers are meant to educate and enlighten the public and are not intended to ignite and fan the flames for world war #3.When I analyzed the messege in the programs all it showed to me was the attitude of hatred and bellacocity of the humanrace---the curse of Cain.Jesus who was a Hebrew by birth of the Davidic kingly blloodlines taught LOVE, KINDNESS ,FORGIVENESS and faith in the Diety and I believe he was trying to teach his people belief in the one spirit and take the steps that elevates humankind above the pettiness and the negative behavior of getting even .That way we can achieve the better spiritual self.In other words live more civilised and treat each other civilly"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you .Love thy neighbor as thyself and forgive as you want to be forgiven"That is something that the Diety and the seven Angels would like to see the humanrace accomplish--and so would I.There is enough room on this planet and everyone can learn to live in harmony.
Name:sam •
Date: 09/12/07 23:24
A: betty47,
You said,:
"I do not agree with killing anyone."
---- But you spread lies and hate.
" My doctor is a Muslim."
---- My family doctor are Egyptian coptic [christian], and my eye specialist is a jew, I been with him so many times. Do you think I'd kill them?
"People are mad about God's warriors because it equate's Jewish and Christian violence with Islamic violence, and it's not even close."
---- This program was presented By a christian woman and produced by CNN which is created and owned by Jews, and they never stand on the Muslims side but always promote hate against them.Also they follow and obay the rules that came to them from the onw who rules the contry either from inside or from outside (?).
"Muslim violence in the world is extreme and has been since centuries before there was ever an Israel. "
--- You are either one of the two 1- you do not know the history , 2- you are just plain silly [I don't want use the extreeme word].
Did you forget all the wars and the hundred of millions who killed (was the 5 millions Jews killed by Muslims, did you forget the great Englisg and Spanish and the French empires all around the world, I think only the stupid who do not know this facts and the facts about who killed the indians and the mayans and slaved the balcks.
Did you listed to today news On many channels and the CNN about the 6 white men and women in Verginia who tortured a black girl, that is the hate. Muslims never do such a thing.
Name:betty47 •
Date: 09/13/07 4:50
A: "From Panluna:
I know from your previous posts that you are disgruntled with your former Christian Faith to the point that you even advocated the destruction of priceless art treasures representing the Christian view and I can understand your need to find solace within a religion that was completely blamed for the death of your former Saviour but are you doing this out of guilt or do you really believe the teachings of Judaism? "
Let me answer this rant as calmly as I can. I have found you have tried to knock down almost everything I've said so three times if I've knocked you down is not much. I do not recall saying to distroy Christian treasures. I do not believe anything of the sort. Treasures are treasures. Also, Jesus is not my former savior. He is my current savior and always has been. I find his life and times fascinating. But do I think that Christianity has been misguided in tossing out Jewish holidays and spreading anti-semitism, yes. I am not Jewish, but I am not afraid to speak the truth which is much of this site has been used for a lot of anti-semitic rants and justification of murder by Muslims of others, and for some reason the webmaster of this site has allowed it which is shameful. So shame on you as well.
Name:betty47 •
Date: 09/13/07 5:01
A: "Are you familiar with the quotation"You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinager?"
Yes. As a matter of fact, I say it to my son all the time. But anti-semitism should not be appeased at all, and you especially should know that as your family suffered under the Nazi's as did mine so I will not tolerate it at all. In Germany they arrest people for many of the pro-Nazi things said on this site. But elsewhere the ugly monster is rising again and no one seems to want to stop it so if I'm the only one reminding people of how awful it is, then so be it. But I lost my great-uncle to a concentration camp. He was not Jewish. He was a Polish Catholic. The Nazi's rounded up lots of Polish people and placed them on work farms. My uncle was worked to death. My aunt escaped. She hid in a barn and picked fruit off of trees to survived when there was nothing else to eat, and shared them with 10 other starving people. I have the photos of her in her Nazi issued work camp uniform hanging in my office so that I never forget the horrors of that time. Those who sweep the past under the rug and forget will repeat the same awful sins of the past. I would like for that not to happen.
Name:betty47 •
Date: 09/13/07 5:12
A: From Sam:
"
"The Truth never lies or hurts anyone if one accepts it."
----- That is wrong. when people believe taught something for thousand of years and that was the truth for them, as that of Jesus is God, or the son of God and he was asccended to heaven and sat on the right hand of God, and many other things, then the real truth came to tell them that the truth which they believe in for so long was just false teachings, for sure that will hurt, and you cannot deny this fact. A person who belive that he was misled, I do not pelive that he will be happy when he discover the truth." End quote from Sam
My response: That goes for most religions. People tend to believe whatever truth they were taught at birth. Some people convert of course, but the vast majority of people learn their so called truth from parents so if you think only Christians have learned the truth from their parents for thousands of years, so have others.
However, we do agree on one thing, which is St. Paul changed and twisted much of what Jesus said, and today we have a form of Christianity that's very different from what Jesus intended it to be.
Name:betty47 •
Date: 09/13/07 5:20
A: "Did you listed to today news On many channels and the CNN about the 6 white men and women in Verginia who tortured a black girl, that is the hate. Muslims never do such a thing."
LOL. Only almost every day do Muslims torture and kill in barbaric ways. Oh so funny.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 09/13/07 16:22
A: Betty47,
If you convert to Judaism then Jesus would not be your Saviour because the Hebrews do not recognise him as the Messiah.The Messiah is prophesised to appear when the original lands given to the tribes of Isreal in Old Testament times are regained.I'm not knocking what you believe. Sorry if you feel that I was picking on you...I have my own opinions and I don't have to agree if I can't apply a point of view that just doesn't settle with me comfortably.You would feel the same way--and that's what disagreements are about.
Now I'm going to let you in a little secret.For many years I have celebrated the special holidays of every religion existing and extinct.If you want to get an idea of the basis of my beliefs you are free to look into it.No one is excluded.
The two books that are readily available are;
ASK YOUR ANGELS by Alma Daniels
and
365 GODDESS by Patricia Telesco
ASK YOUR ANGELS teaches the basic connection to one's spiritual side.It's easy to follow.And 365 GODDESS puts the reader in connection with the femine aspect of all religions.Even if you don't want to practice the rites and rituals the book reveals a wealth of information for female empowerment.
The above two books are just a suggestion.You'll understand my point of view and where I'm coming from much better.
You might want to read some of your earlier posts that go way back to this past Spring.You'll find the one I was refering to.Now I'm not anti-semetic or anti-anyone's-religion.But I abhor violance and I will not tolerate narrow minded accusations.
My parents survived WW2 by eating rats and my father was in the French Resistance.My heritage includes genectics contributed from almost any known Indo-European groups which includes the Gaulish and Frankish indigenous people,Roman,Mongol and Gypsy(or Romany) to name a few and I'm sure somewhere in the course of thousands of years of invasions and peace Hebrew blood and nobility were introduced.We can even trace part of our bloodline to one of King Charlemagne's mistresses,Cathars and even Knights Templars.Europe is a melting pot of DNA and everyone is related to each other as "cousins" to some degree.There were also many different religions practised starting with Shamanism,Druid,Roman and Greek Pantheon,Gnosticsim,any form of Christianity and whatever else each generation reveled in to revere the Spirit.My parents were free modern thinkers--sometimes I even thought they might have been Bohemian in their ideas.Ever watch the movie MOULIN ROUGE?
Both of parents lost siblings at young ages during WW2 and they were the first in all the generations to come to the UNITED STATES as immigrants.I was born in New York City.When my parents arrived here they had the same question as many other people did:
WHY DID GOD ALLOW THESE ATROCITIES ?
The answer is simple:God didn't cause this evil ----Humans cause it.Every conquering army commits acts of atrocity towards their enemy as long as they resist the invader's rule.Humans have been cruel to each other since the time of Cain and Abel.Sibling rivalry and competion for domainantcy which compels the combatants for generations to be at odds with each other prevents achieving a lasting peace..Does the Devil make us fight?I say NO --It's in our power to decide--it's human nature--the same beast within us can be conquored by an emotion called love and a highly developed intellect capable of rational thoughts followed by civilised actions towards each other.And every generation has to learn these lessons each individual one at a time.
Good luck with your spiritual journey and may you find your truth within ---that's where the Secret lives--the one Jesus revealed.
Name:sam •
Date: 09/16/07 19:37
A: betty47,
Did you listen to the news everyday?, day after day for five years, for ten years for fifty years.
Did you see the tanks, the planes, the rockets, the guns destroying houses and killing people, the children who been thrown out of their homes and had nothing to deffend themselves except stones. did you watch the distruction of Lebanon, bridges, power pland, factories etc., and the thousands of ennocent people killed just because of two Israeli taken hostage?. Did you know that there are more than 10,000 Palestinians jailed and tortured for tens of years by those who came and stoll their land and buldozed their homes . And all that which led to all the problems in the world today. Mel Gibson was right.
Did you watch day after day the bombing of Iraq? and for five years, They show you their army and it is power, but they do not show you the 600,000 killed and the hundred of thousands of men, women and children who been burned and lost their sights or legs or hands, but for propaganda reason they show you day after day and for weeks one child with burned face which they claim that he is a victim of the Iraqis, and they show you how they are good by bringing him to the U.S. for treatments!!!. Why they do not show the ten of thousands like him which they killed and burned. There only one or two children who suffered, what about all the children who been living under the fire and bombs day after day for so long?. And what about the refugees families with children which their home bombed and lost everything, 4 millions of them, can we blame Sadam for everything even after he is gone. What silly and stupid people who believe the lies and the propaganda of the WEST.
Everyone around the world knows the reason for attacking that country, [OIL...OIL...OIL], and everyone knows the lies which been told by the leaders of the U.S., [ TO PROTECT THEIR INTEREST] and hat about the interest of the people of the other countries. And the lies never end, and we hear it day by day, and nothing changed.
Saddam was very bad because he killed two thousand of his people the Kurds. The Kurds who try to revolt and make their own government and country in northern Iraq by the help of the U.S. and Israel and other western countries. First you should know that the Kurds in Iraq are refugees who been welcomed and given place to live away from their original country KURDISTAN which is in central Asia [under the occupation of the U.S.S.R., like Armenia- the Armenians fled to Syria and Lebanon and been welcomed and lived in peace with the Moslims for many centuries] .
The western [christian] countries they make a big deal out of it, while in the same time killed 600,000+ from innocent Iraqies and destroy the whole contry!!!!!!!. There are a lot of stupid people around the world who believe the propaganda and the lies of the west, and they cannot differentiate between killing 2 thousands and the killing of 600 thousands and for nothing and just for a stupid lies, and to steal the oil.
The did show their soldiers giving chocolates to the children of Vietnam as propaganda to cover their crimes. They use mass distruction in that country and they use NAPALM and AGENT ORANGE GAS to kill the people and the animal and the trees. My question, "Why the west [the christians] has to send their armies to kill the other people all around the world?, since we never heard of a Vietnamese or Korean or Iraqi or from any other Arabic or Muslim country army went to the west or had a fight with the west, in the west ????.
Who is the murderer and the killer to start with.
The history always repeat itself, because what we see today in the U.S. itself from the coming/smugling of 3 millions Spanish catholic Mexican every year across the border , in 20 or 30 or 50 years they will be taken over many states, Florida, Mew Mexico, California etc. (taking back what the English/ American stoll from them in the past, and then the one who come to live in the future time they will witness another American leader [like Saddam] in the states who will fight and kill the invaders from the south, and then he will be called a hero [not murderers] by the English speaking people. Did you noticed today how many Mexican flags raised in town and cities in the south?, and they are growing by the days and years.
Name:sam •
Date: 09/16/07 20:22
A: Hi Panluna,
Yesterday, I watched a film on the TLC [the learning channel] called "Golda Meir", and this film tells us about her life in Russia and moving to the U.S. , then went with her husband to Palestine, and how she joined the Jews and the other leaders who came from different countries organized the smugling of the jews and the arm into Palestine, and hoe the British helped them with training and arms to take over the country and throw the people out of their homes . At that time the Palestinians were under the British occupation and had nor arms at all to defend themselves against the soldures who came fully trained how to kill from the second world war. I hope you understand this fact and see the true picture.
The Jews were helped not only by the British but by the U.S. and France and many other western countries. while all the other Arab counties , Egypt, Jordan were under the British occupation and Syria and Lebanon under the French occupation, It was a theatre that the big powers who won the war in Europe against poor counties who never fought any war, and that is the fact. Anything what they make of stories are lies, the west lived and prospered on lies, all around the world.
You remember the lies to the aborigonal Indians, one after another and they stoll all their land and left who suvived from their gun to live in sub-human conditions in what they call "RESERVATION".
You mentioned the killings of a dozen of Yezedis in Iraq, but did ever thought what was the reason?, did you ever thought that they might me used as spies to help the outsiders ?. Did you knoe that the Israelies sent 3000 from the Massad [like-spies] to northern Iraq before it was invaded and the helped the Kurds and the Yazedis against the Iraqi people? [that was mentioned by the Israel embasador to the U.S. on the CNN after the invasion, a sort of proud that he helped the American in topling the Sadam regime "propaganda". He knows all the lies that went on about Iraq, and they were behind everything that happen there and everywhere in the middle east.]
God bless you.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 09/16/07 22:33
A: Sam,
I'm a little confused about all the facts.Any one can say anything to pursuade people to follow their lead.That's propaganda.I'm not quite sure how the Yazidis figure in this unless they are fighting for their lives.I am interested in their culture and religion which predates Judaism,Christianity and Islam and has it's origins in Sumeria,Babylonia and included the teachings of Zarathustra and possibly some influence from a pre-historic Indo tribe.None of my ancestors were in the United States when the West was won and settled.I'm of the first generation from my family tree to be naturally born here.But I sympathise with the Native First Americans' plight.It makes me sad to see a culture get destroyed but that's what victory and the spoils in the game of war bring to our history written by the winners.They can be absorbed and maintain a sense of identity or be destroyed.
Name:sam •
Date: 09/18/07 19:36
A: Hi Panluna,
What you said here that,
"I'm not quite sure how the Yazidis figure in this unless they are fighting for their lives."
That is completely wrong. Have you been in Iraq before the invasion and the war ? did you live there and met with the people of all religions?. I do not think so. So, what you think or claim did not come from the facts, and that makes it wrong.
before bringing the facts, I am going to transfer few lines from the stories of mine [biogaraphy], which I started writing after I get my computer at the age 65, and under the title "JOURNEY AROUND THE WORLD (My story)".
Here is the biginning:
In the vast space of the universe; Billions of galaxies, with billions of stars and planets, speeding away in a journey to the unknown future.
“The milky way” our galaxy is among them, and we call it our galaxy. On the outer wing of the milky way, a shining star surrounded by several planets, among them, a bright and colorful planet, glowing in the darkness of the space. It is our earth, our home, our small home in the universe.
On the surface of this earth, a small piece of a beautiful land, hard to see on the big world map; Hugs the eastern Mediterranean sea, this land we call LEBANON, it is my beautiful country.
Lebanon consists of two mountains, and a beautiful and fertile valley in between “ the bekaa valley.” In this valley, and on the slopes of the eastern mount Lebanon lay the small town of BAALBECK, my town.
When you read those few lines about this small town, in this small country, in the big world, you wonder, what makes this town Baalbeck so special? , I tell you why.
BAALBECK IN THE HISTORY BOOKS;
Baalbeck history goes back to the third millennium BC..........
Panluna, (you can read and see the pictures on the net "baalbeck-lebanon" or the "the international festivals of baalbeck" or "www.habeeb.com" and this site will bring to you more than 800 picture + many information.)
After that, the story goes on:
Chapter two - BAALBECK MY TOWN:
three - BAALBECK IN THE LAST FIVE DECADES:
four - MY FAMILY IN BAALBECK:
five - THE YOUNG xxxxx xxxxx [my youngest uncle] JOURNEY TO BAGHDAD:
........... after that:
--- CHANGING THE COFFEE SHOP TO STORE:
A young carpenter found. this young man has difficulties in speaking, but he can read, write, and draw. He is genius in his profession, and he does all sort of woodwork. In three month, from xxxx [my uncle] plans, and this young carpenter brilliant ideas a piece of art was created from wood and glass. During this long period of hard work, the impatient partner asked him why he should spent a lot of time and money, and why he does not do it in a simple way like the other shops in Baghdad. xxxx always answering him, "you have to wait and see, and I am not building another shop."
The empty blue painted wall except for few colourful posters, and some cheap mirrors hanging here and there were turned to an elegant wood & glass shelves and cabinets, and the tables were replaced by modern display counters. The four cement columns in the middle turned to a display cabinets, and the bare and dusty cement floor now is covered by beautiful marbels. Not to forget the ceiling in its dark smoked colour and the many electric wires hung down with a single bulb at the end, all turned to an elegant ceiling with a lot of modern lights.
Three of the five doors became a display windows, and the other two has now a heavy and solid wood & glass doors with golden bars.
In the last week, and just before the work was completed, xxxx invited few wholesaler among them Robin, a jewish businessman from the "Shorga" , a distric for wholesale people , and many deals were offered, but Robin offer exceeded the rest, and he
kept his promises to him when they met few month later. He [xxx] can get as much stock he wants with only 10% cash, and the rest will be on credit, and he did not forget to sent him all the empty boxes needed to cover spots were he cannot fill with merchandise at the early stage.
(The store became the first department store in the country [like JC penny srores], and the first to bring women to work beside the men)
---- THE START OF MY JOURNEY:
Before talking about my journey, I would like to say that everyone come to this planet has his own journey, it could be a long or a short one. It does not matter how long or short the time we spent here. But what matters most is what a person can achieve, and how much he can see from the God beautiful creations on this earth.
Some people leave their permanent stamp on the land while passing by as nice solid curved rock which stand the elements of time, others leave their marks as a pebble in the desert sand appear and disappear according to the movement of the wind. But unfortunately the majority come to earth and they are like drops of water hitting the surface of a pond making a small splashes and then disappear. Always the future will tell about the past.
Now and at the age of sixty seven [here, 2 years passed since I started writing my srory, and I am doing it for my grandson, because he has the right to know his family history], I am trying to flush out the memories of my past from the stories I heard, and from my experience in life during those past years........................ until the end of my story.
Panluna, In 1953 the ministery of tourism took our house which was located in the center of the Roman temples, we were surrounde by the temples "JUPITER “ father of gods, the god of light & life, and BACCHUS, “ the god of wine, and VENUS, “ the goddess of love beauty & fertility " . All those temple were our play ground [as children] until the ministry surrounded Jupiter and Bacchus with a high stone wall and make them a tourism attractions with fees to enter them, but venus was ours for few years after that, because there was no way for them to take it from us because it was on the othe side in our garden and the house was in the middle. Anyhow they ended by removing us, and they dug out our home looking for treasures, and the family moved to Baghdad, and we open more businesses, until 1958 when the Ba'ath regime took over by killing the king "Faisal II" and the P.M. "Nouri al-Saiid", and in one year after that we nearly lost everything and forced to move out, because our stores were known, as the place for the rich and the royalities.
Panluna, In my next post I will give you an idea about the people of Iraq, when I was there and among them.
God bless you.
Name:sam •
Date: 09/18/07 21:33
A: Panluna, here I am again, answering your other post.
"Sam,
I'm a little confused about all the facts.Any one can say anything to pursuade people to follow their lead.That's propaganda."
First the PROPAGANDA was born and used mainly by the west, and during the two world wars where it was really developed, and became a science, and a tool for many uses.
Propaganda is ,"biased* information",
* "distortion...prejudice etc.
Even the rest of the world follow after but they are still primitive when compared to the west. Propaganda needs the tools to be effective, and the west are [as you know] far advanced in any field [the tools] which needed to make the propaganda works.
For example, CNN has the tools to transfer any news they wants [propoganda and lies are included] all around the world and to billions of people in a second, [that is what we call power], and adding to that the BBC & FOX and all the magazines [N.G.M. - times - newsweek etc, and then adding to it the hollywood film production and all those are displayed all ariud the world, that is the maximum power to spread evething and lies included.
In the west they can make people hooked to certain products, tobaco, coke, mcdonald, and they can show the bad things which bad for everyone as good things.
Second, "pursuade ". pursuade people to follow their lead?.
The question here, who is the one who pursuade the others?. If you the history, then you will know that the only one who can pursuade the others is the one who has the power and the control. The history tell us that in the last three or more centuries, all the Arab and the Muslims countries were under occupaion and under the guns of the western world, even today they left bases all around the world to control the others and to protect their interest for the things that suppose to be the interest of the people of those contries [can you undrstand this fact?], and that what led to the 9/11 and the other acts. If there was no petrol in that part of the world there was no trouble.
The attack were done by few criminals and stupid ones, but that was grown out beyound any limit [by the propaganda], and they try to make of it a tool for hate and a tool to go back to the area that been previously occupied by the British to occupy it again and put their hands on the petrol. The slogans that you hear always 24/7/365 by all sort of people [we will never forget...muslim terrorist...and the weapons of mass distruction], all they were lies [propaganda] to prepare their people to accept and to agree to attack another country, and that led the massacre of 600000+ people. Former president Jimmy Carter, Bob Woodword and many others honest people wrote about this fact, even the one created the lies admitted.
But was the propaganda of wars stop here, NO, and it is still going, the same as it was before, but now there is another rich country in oil is the target!!!.
Panluna, I want you to give me honest question. You think a man who own an old rifle will dare to attack hundred people with hundred big powerful gun while he knows this fact?.
Let me bring some figures. Iran population 69 millions and it is alone and had no atom bomb. the one who make the propagande the lies that they are afraid from an Iranian attack [made up story] are of many nations, the U.S., England, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Russia [today] and Canada + Tens of other countries in Europe and America with population over a BILLION people and with armies equal to the population of Iran and with the most sophisticated arms and weapons + More tha 50,000 atom and hydrogen bombs and misile to deliver them anywhere on this planet + the ten thousands of satelites to see any moving car on this planet , AND WITH ALL THAT THEY ARE AFREAD FROM A COUNTRY WHO CANNOT PRODUCE A PLANE AND NOT EVEN A CAR.
Is that propaganda is similar to the one that happen only five years ago?, is that a preparation for anothe war to control another OIL FIELDS, and to destry another Muslim country.
They never attacked Venezuela [population 25 millions and it is located in America], and it is rich with OIL, even the president [GB] was called as devil in front of the world, and they never attacked Nigeria or other christian country, can you see the truth and understand the facts.
Do you think that one good boy in the shool have a chance when faced by many bullies boys [a gangs], it is the smae with the nations, in the big picture.
God bless you.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 09/18/07 23:35
A: Hi Sam,
Wow I can't wait for your book to be published.!!!!!! I have never been lucky enough to visit the Middle East.All I've ever seen of that part of the world are movies,news stories and what I've read online.In answer to your gun question sometimes it's good stand up to a crowd -- if you can get away and sometimes it's good to give up for awhile--that's for survival.
I looked up Ramadan yesterday.Aren't all Moslims supposed to be at peace at this time?And why are there still acts of violence going on?--there was car-bombing again.Do you think there might be an anarchist group involved and behind this whole messy scene?
I read E.S.Dower's online book about the Yezedis which was published in 1941 and is now out of print.Have they caught up with the modern times or do they still live with the same caste system they have practised for the last 8,000 years? I know they enslaved people and are still agricultural but has the modern world finally reached them?I keep thinking about that horrid,inhumane stoning to death of that young girl and I just wonder how important is it to preserve a vanishing culture.I know it has it's good side--the religious beliefs are fascinating especially about God,the Seven Angels and Pearl of Creation and of course the snake...I'm just wondering how long they will be able to keep their world going. Or is genocide in their future?Saddam Hussien tried to exterminate the Yezedis just like the Ottoman Turks and the Mongols who were repelled by them during the course of history.They wouldn't have survived 8,000 years as a culture if they let people overrun them It's just like the man with the old gun standing up to change.Which survives in the best way : the reed bending in the wind or the fence post?
Enjoy the peace of Ramadan
Name:Panluna •
Date: 09/19/07 0:29
A: I don't advocate Genocide of any religious,ethnic and cultural group.The articles about the horrific attacks on the Yazedis are an illustration of inhuman behavior and are a violation of human rights.Just because they aren't Moslim doesn't give anyone the right to annihilate them.When people want to live at peace let them be.Live and let live.
Name:sam •
Date: 09/19/07 20:40
A: Dear Panluna,
I don't think that you understand up to now and after all what I tried to explain to you the differences between , the religion , the teaching, the message of God and what is written in the holy books in one side, and the people who claim that they follow it on the other side. Not everyone who call himself christian is a real christian, and not everyone who call himsel Muslim is a real Muslim.
Can you tell me if all the one who claim that they are Christians, Muslims or Jews, are really Christians, Muslim or Jews, even after they commit all the crimes which are forbidden in the teaching of their religion, and by God?.
GB goes to church and he call himself christian, But after his crimes and lies, you think he represents christianity, and the teaching of God, Moses or Jesus, and they all taught us the love and peace.
The same can be said about OBL and the millions of the one who call themselves belong to one religion or another.
The articles about the horrific attacks on the Yazedis {and you keep bringing the Yazedis as the only one who suffer in this world- is that a sort of propaganda agains the other group , and those who has nothing to do with what happen to the Yazedis?} are an illustration of inhuman behavior and are a violation of human rights {another words of propaganda, that is when you bring the human rights when talking about this group of people (100,000+) and not mentioning the other group (The total Palestinian population worldwide is estimated to be between 10 to 11 million people, over half of whom are stateless, lacking citizenship in any country), and you did not care what happen to them , and half of them are refugees and many still been thrown out of their homes and their children are killed every day by those who came from Europe and other countries, all that JUST BECAUSE THEY AREN'T JEWS .
Just because they aren't Moslim doesn't give anyone the right to annihilate them.
And because they aren't jews doesn't give anyone the right to anninhilate them too.
And because they aren't christians doesn't give anyone the right to anninhilate them.
Kosovo: between june 10 &15 - 1999 only.
---- BBC : Junik, Ramok, Mulliq, and other villages in the Reka e Keqe area, close to the Albanian border reportedly burnt by Serb forces. (Source: DIS atrocity list, 24 Mar 99 - 15 Jun 1999 .)
----- BBC : The bodies of 8 ethnic Albanians apparently killed in April reportedly found (7 near Sheremet village and 1 near Dobrush village. Retreating Serb forces said to be burning houses across Western Kosovo and also to be holding 1,000 abducted ethnic Albanians in Djakovica. (Source: DIS atrocity list, 24 Mar 1999 - 15 Jun 1999.)
---- PRESS : Reports of Serb forces, destroying evidence of atrocities and looting and burning houses as they retreated. The Independent reported
---- Sunday Times: reports of 99 graves found in Kastranic, southern Kosovo. Surviving villagers had hid in the surrounding hills for several weeks. They told KFOR the killings were committed on 9 Apr 1999 by Serb paramilitaries.
----Sunday People : reports of mass graves in the Drenica region and of murders committed by Serb paramilitaries in Gjakova. (The Guardian of 17 Jun 1999 reports a UCK assertion that 530 people were killed and the bodies used to poison wells.)
Some mass graves:
Kolic - 70 killed; Nakarad - 160 killed; Ljubenic; Ratis; Kraljane;
Slovinje - 50 killed; Klecka; Malisevo - over 700 dead; Pusto Selo;
Siceva - 5 dead; Srbica -140 dead; Caraluk - 26 deadLeslovci - 50 dead;
Duz - 40 dead.
NATO Press Lines list new evidence of atrocities at:
Kosova Kamencia - the bodies of 4 Albanians found under a bridge;
Gnjilane - Another possible mass grave found;
Urosevac - Another possible mass grave found;
Caralug - 22 civilians, 11 of them children, reported killed with machine guns.
Sunday Telegraph: reports KFOR has found 60,000 refugees (including children) held by Serbs in burnt out villages (near Podujevo) used as concentration camps. They were captured in Apr 1999 after hiding in the mountains. The refugees are badly malnourished and often ill. Beatings and random shootings, both to kill and to wound, were frequent. Serb snipers killed refugees almost to the moment KFOR (UK) troops reached the camps.
In the west [propaganda] they are still talking about the massacre of the kurd by SH, [muslim - muslim] and they are only 2 thousands, and they will kepp talking about the Yazedis for the next hundred years and they will never forget the 9/11 , but they will forget Kosovo, and they will not bring their stories because [christians massacres muslims]. The are massacring muslims in Iraq, and they did prepare for the killing by creating all the lies they needed [propaganda again and again].
Panluna, You should understand the fact, that no one Muslim or Arab country attacked the west for the last 400 years , but they been under constant attack from the western countries, [12 people who attack building they represetn a group of people but not a country or the religion.
Japanes put in camps:
There were ten internment Camps in total; they consisted of: three road camps, two prisoner of war camps(POW), and five self supporting camps scattered throughout Canada during the second World War. Prior to World War II, 22,096 Japanese Canadians lived in British Colombia; three quarters of them were naturalized or native born Canadians.
----My frien Jean Fujimoto, for twenty five years [at work 17 years] told her story , when they took their home and business and thrown into camps and all their sufferings. She was born in Canada.
In the U.S. :
In the entire course of the war, 10 people were convicted of spying for Japan, all of whom were Caucasian.
-Permanent detention camps that held internees [Japanese] from March, 1942 until their closing in 1945 and 1946.
The camps:
Amache (Granada), CO. pop 7318
Gila River, AZ. 13,348
Heart Mountain, WY 10,767
Jerome, AR 8497
10,046.....9397....17,814....8475.... 8130....18,789....
In all, 120,313 people were under WRA control. 90,491 were transfered from assembly centers; 17,491 were taken directly from their homes; 5918 were born to imprisoned parents; 1735 were transferred from INS internment camps; 1579 were moved here after being sent from assembly centers to work crops; 1275 were transfered from penal and medial institutions; 1118 were taken from Hawaii; and 219, mostly non-Japanese spouses, entered voluntarily.7
Of these 120,313: 54,127 returned to the West Coast after their incarceration; 52,798 relocated to the interior; 4724 moved (or were moved) to Japan; 3121 were sent to INS internment camps; 2355 joined the armed forces; 1862 died during imprisonment; 1322 were sent to institutions.
an you see what happen to the Kurds and Yazedis are similar to what happen to the American Japanese?.
God bless you.
Name:sam •
Date: 09/19/07 23:38
A: Panluna,
The Assyrians and the Yazedis and the Jews been living in Iraq and Syria with the Arab/Muslims for 1350+ years in peace, and at all times they practice their faith, and they were farmers or business people and they have position in the private sectors and even in the millitary*.
The Jews after the discovery of the great Jewish spy "COHEN *" and the many others with him in Syria and the harm done to the country, it was necessary to put the Jews out, but they never put the Jews in prison-camps as it happen in the states. Not in Syria or Iraq or any other Arab county.
In Iraq, and in the 60th there were many Assyrians in all the group of the Iraq army, and some of them hold very high ranks, But 2 of the air force Majors stoll 2 MIG 21 warplanes and deliver them to Israel, and after that they catch many cell of Assyrias spys, and that cause many problem for the one who is in the army but none of the Assyrians were put in camps or killed, and those who left [mostly to Australia] they left because of their fears only **.
* COHEN, came to Syria as a rich Syrian/ Brazilian, whose father immigrated to Brazil long time ago, and gave the story that he is going to bring his millions to be put in work for his county, and he spent a lot and he became trusted by many from those who are in high positions in the Syrian goverment an in millitary, that went on for several year until his identity discovered and caught in the act of spying. and he was hunged.
And at that time there were few Jews in Syria, and they never put them in camps or kill them, their stores (mostly jewellers) and other businesses still open, and one been forced to leave, and there are many Jews in Lebanon and in Egypt and the many other Muslim countries, and they do not live in camps.
** I lived in Iraq few years [1953-59], and my uncle lived there before many years, and we lived and worked with the Jews and the Assyrians and the talkefees and the Kurds, and the Arminians, I will bring the truth to you, and my story how we lived as close friend and as a family in the next post.
God bless you.
Name:CanuckChick •
Date: 09/20/07 13:55
A: Betty, I share many of your sentiments.
During WW2 my Hungarian grandfather was drafted to fight with the German army. He ended up in the battle for Stalingrad in Russia and we believe he perished there. Many of the Hungarian soldiers were underequipped and froze to death. Many starved - the hunger was so great that they ate their horses, several days later digging up the bones to gnaw on again. I have a copy of his last letter to his wife (my grandmother), begging her to go to the courthouse and get a letter stating he was needed at home due to a family emergency. It's obvious he intended to go AWOL if he ever reached Hungarian soil again.
My father's father perished in Siberia and we have a picture of his grave.
After the war the Russians took over Hungary. My grandmother lived in a town made up of Donau-Schwaben (Germans who had emigrated down the Danube to Hungary hundreds of years before) and so they spoke both Hungarian and German. The Russians, of course, hated anything German, and since many of the former residents had fought against them during the war, they ordered a mass evacuation of the little town. My grandmother had five children - two boys died of diphteria, one crib-death, leaving only my mother and aunt alive. She had built a lovely house with gardens and fruit trees. They were ordered to leave their homes and everything in them and were allowed to take only two suitcases of belongings. Then they were loaded onto freight trains - my grandmother and her two children ended up in Germany. She had to start all over again with nothing in a strange country, not knowing what had become of her husband. Their former homes were given to good Hungarian communists from Budapest, who soon ran these farms into the ground, having no knowledge of how to work the land.
So, everyone has a sad story to tell in relation to war.
I believe that with goodwill and intelligence many of these clashes could be avoided.
Re the conflict in the Middle East, I believe that if the Israelis laid down their weapons, they would be annihilated. If the Palestinians laid down their weapons, there would be peace. There are, after all, 22 other Muslim countries to which they could emigrate. The Jews have no other land than Israel.
Peace,
CC
Name:Panluna •
Date: 09/20/07 15:13
A: I guess it's time to outlaw wars if all nations agree.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 09/20/07 15:48
A: Sam,
The Yazedis are a new discovery to me.I spent several days researching their religion,history and recent current events listed on the internet.They were trying to stay out of this "war" but became deliberate targets by their Moslim neighbors.It's gone on for centuries because the Yazedi religion was misunderstood and yet it is the oldest continualy practised religion with it's origins dating back to their ancestors who existed in that region since ancient Sumer and Babylonia.They had already lost several thousand hectares of ancestral land to a developement and in August 4 car bombs blew 2 of their villages apart and killed almost 400 children,woman and men who just wanted to live at peace.Granted their 'honor-justice" punishment is a rough and inhumane not to mention illegal by our standards but stoning someone to death and ostracism is an old practise. I don't condone these practises either.Even Jesus stopped the stoning of a woman who cheated on her husband and asked "and ye without sin can ye cast the first stone?"
I feel that president Bush responded in the way we had to after the attacks of 9/11/01.Someone during 2003 started the problems for this administration in Iraq around the time we were helping to rebuild and set up the temporary interim government.Saddam Hussien was at large at the time and he and his followers could have been the ones to start the rumours that got contractors kidnapped and killed and then it escalated with the Taliban rebels and Al-Quada attacks all over the world and assasinations.I feel that the Militia is trying to seize control and establish another dictatorship just like Saddam's rule.The sad part is part of the program is to annihalate minority ethnic groups like the Yazedis,Christians and anyone who opposes them.
We are planning to withdraw our troops soon but can the new democratic government in Iraq stand on it's two feet,establish fair treatment for ALL it's people and enforce the law and appropriate punishment in the name of Justice?Or are they going to allow themselves to fall into the hands of a ruthless dictator who uses terror-tactics to intimidate?Who wins--who loses?
Name:sam •
Date: 09/20/07 17:14
A: Hi Panluna,
My story in Baghdad.
After couple a days from the family arrival, our neighbour welcomed us, and we felt at home, they bring food and helped my Mom by looking after my younger sisters, and their children became our best friends, they are who teach me driving, and teach my mother how to cook local food [carry & others], they were Shiite.
In our store, all the working sales-girls are Christians, Assyrians, Arminians and others, and their supervisor Is Pauleen Younan [Assyrian] and her brother Awesha Younan, who is a manager in the "Rafedain bank", he worked part time in the evening] as accountant and does all the correspondent with the manufacturers and firms in Europe, the state India and Japan. I met with him in Australia and we visited each other many time.
Then, the young Talkefee man, Geryouth [we called him el-amin 'the honest'] who left his rich family [the biggest catering firm in Baghdad], because their refusal to be married to a poor girl. He told me his story which I told my family, and they helped him by doubling his wages and paid the rent for one year for his new home and they also gave him all the furniture he needed as a wedding gift. Their fist born son they called him Mustafa as the name of my young uncle. He is the one who showed me all the old city when I arrived and used to be our guard when we go to the bank.
Then, ALI the Kurdish man, and we called him Hercules, [he use to lift anyone with one hand over his shoulder], who does the jobs of transfering the good from the warehouse to the store, he is a good man with a big heart and a lot of humour.
All those were a part of our family, and all of them been invited to our home in certain occasions. and at the end of every month evryone of them get a gift bag full what they need {cosmetic or clothing}, and even we never forget the trafic police who stand many hours in front of the store in sun [45-50 degree], we use to provide them with cold drinks all day long, and a bag full of gift for them and their families in every month.
What happen to the Jews or the Assyrians, the people of Iraq cannot be blamed for it . It was the work of those who paid millions for the spys to turn them against their country and their families, and all what is happening today is the work of the outsider the one who make billions from the wars and to keep them in the control of the area and its resources by using the methods of , "DEVIDE AND CONQUER".
God bless you.
Name:lupus-rex •
Date: 09/30/07 5:03
A: it's not like counterfeit labels on bootleg items, those things are purposely misleading and criminal. If things have changed over time to this day then I cannot in my sincerity be judged as counterfeit of the original followers if I am true.
the sheep know the voice of the shepherd and are drawn even through fog as we are from dark to light even though the fog thickens over time so too the numbers and the voices grow louder and we have our moral compass to guide us and the law while ordering us still does not finally condemn us in our faltering and failings but grows appreciation and love for the compassion recognised in our being forgiven and so we too learn to forgive without casting aside the value of the laws which govern us and lead us to the straight path.......where we hope to meet perfection face to face someday and be embraced in perfection and be perfected then.
that is how I see this and live with changes percieved, real or imagined, if God is in us then we cannot stray too far.
Name:lupus-rex •
Date: 09/30/07 5:13
A: [b]Propaganda [/b]for distinctly political ends is as old as history. The Bible, for example, relates that the Assyrian king Sennacherib attempted to terrify the Kingdom of Judah into surrendering by the use of threatening propaganda (see 2 Kings 18-19). Julius Caesar wrote De Bello Gallico (On the Gallic War) to enhance his reputation in Rome and to speed his rise to power.
as you can see, it's clearly propaganda to claim that propaganda is Western, it predates the West by quite some time, also, Assyria is hardly Western, prejudism that also predates the West
Name:sam •
Date: 10/01/07 0:13
A: CanuckChick ,
A- Re the conflict in the Middle East, I believe that if the Israelis laid down their weapons, they would be annihilated.
------- You are wrong, the Jews and the Christians lived together in peace with the Muslims in Palestine and the many other Arab and Muslim countries for nearly 1400 years, while they are a very small minorities, even in Spain (read the history of Spain) , BUT the Jews been hated and killed only by the Christians (read their history all around Europe).
"if the Israelis laid down their weapons, and stop stealing the other people land and stop killing the Palestinians and give the Palestinians the right to live free in their own land , and treated as equal, then the result is peace for all".
B- If the Palestinians laid down their weapons, there would be peace.
----- That is wrong, because when the Palestinian has no weapons in 1948 the Russian and the German and the Polish etc., Jews came with weapons (smugled) to the land of peace and they steal the land and killed its people , and sent millions out of their homes to live as refugese. And if the Paletinians laid down their arms today they will be theown out of their home and killed. The killers who came from Europe, had their plan to steeal whatever they can laid their hand on, , and they did not come to live in peace and to respect the right of the other people.
C- There are, after all, 22 other Muslim countries to which they could emigrate.
---What a stupid thing to say!!!. So you think it is right to kill people and drive people away from their homes to be refugees?. Why the Jews did not stay in their home in Europe and America and Africa? .
D- The Jews have no other land than Israel.
----THAT IS WRONG. Why the Jews did not stay in their home in Europe and America and Africa? .
The Jews are loved today by the American and Most of the west Europeans and in many countries in Africa, and they can go and live and live in peace in all those lands. There are millions of Jews living a good life in the U.S. and England and Holland etc.
The Palestinian Jews , and the Palestinian Christian and the Palestinian Muslim, Palestine is their land always, BUT the Israilies Jews are the Jews of Russia, Germany Poland Holland etc. and their land is not Palestine. and those are no more then thieves.
