Name:Perceptions •
Title: A Doubt! •
Date posted: 03/14/07 0:13
Q: How come the Family of Jesus kept living so CLOSE to the DANGER, and the closed members were burried, so honourably labelled, in a very conspicuous TOMB?
They all might have deceased within a period of another 100 years , on average , after Jesus.
Name:Red •
Date: 03/14/07 2:14
A: Good question.
The boxes were not 'honourably labled' in the sense we think. The inscriptions were done in a way that seemed more of a practical way for the family to identify remains. The boxes were unremarkable other than that.
This makes sense because at the time Jesus was a local phenomena, and not the world 'star' he is today. That's not to say he was not known by alot of people locally, but the movement was outlawed after his death, and people scattered like the plague. It would seem reasonable that the family would not want to draw alot of attention to the tomb.
Why the family were buried there is anyones guess. I think it was simply because it was the family tomb. Kind of like buying your plot early so you can lay next to Mom and dad Ect..... They hewed out the tomb and went in one by one..
Name:Perceptions •
Date: 03/14/07 2:52
A: I agree that Jesus was not a STAR of his timein the SAME snese that aplies today, yet he was SOMEONE more than IMPORTANT, at his time, esp. subjected to what he was suposed to be punished for!!!!
..or itn't it so...
Well it seems to be common practice of those days , i mean the BURRIAL, yet the TOMB seems to be significantly "prominant"!
with the MARK at ENTRANCE, the sign of 1st. century CHRISTIANITY and referring to an HONOURED state of burrial,or so.
What do you say?
Name:Red •
Date: 03/14/07 3:03
A: To be honest with you, i think the 'mark" over the door is not a mark.
I think it is a Gable and a Vent. If not, It may be an" Acme Tomb Hewers and burial service" company emblem.
Who knows. But I do think some people are knocking themselves out assuming it's an early Christian mark. If it was, it would have survived.
Name:Perceptions •
Date: 03/14/07 3:19
A: Could be!
They found the same mark on some other assuaries found in the other Tomb, nearby, assuming them to be of the BELIEVER'S.
Name:Red •
Date: 03/14/07 3:23
A: Or all customers of the ATH & Co.
Name:Perceptions •
Date: 03/14/07 3:31
A: Hmmm...!
Name:Red •
Date: 03/14/07 3:34
A: I just thought of something.....The Jews say that means of burial (boxes) went on for part of the first century. It is possible ATH inc. could have tanked and filed chapter 7, and never sold the rights to the logos.
Name:Perceptions •
Date: 03/14/07 3:42
A: So you believe in all of your EXPERT suggestion..:-)
Anyway, It jsut came to my mind, ..Could there be a Possiblity that Jesus survived the crucifiction and lived with his family secretly and then died, sometimes after?
Another thing is, as his assuary states JESUS SON FOF JOSEPH, ..if he was believed to be of a VIRGIN-BIRTH, then does this suggest it shoud have been, JESUS SON OF MARY, instead!
Name:Perceptions •
Date: 03/14/07 3:50
A: See you , Later!
Name:Red •
Date: 03/14/07 4:20
A: These are not in my opinion expert suggestions.
To me it's very possible to be something very simple.
If I were to assume Jesus survived the crucifiction, then logic would dictate that the bible historically can not be relied upon. If the bible can not be relied upon, then How do we know for sure he was crucified to begin with?
So , This places limitations on logic insofar as deducing that question That WAY. Doing it this way requires logic to be applied to an assumption first. To me, this is no good. However, There are dots to connect , but no one is connecting them yet.
He was known in the bible as the son of Joseph. he was refered to that by scribes and priests when they asked about him as a child in the temple. "is this not the son of joseph." So it was no secret that he was his son. Also, it is logical to deduce that Joseph was known by these guys and not just some face in the crowd.
Your question hit's the nail on the head. If not the 'Son of Mary" it could read "the son of God" . But it doesnt, and it really is no suprise because everyone has a dad with a name, and like I said before, A virgin birth requires too much from Physics.
Name:Perceptions •
Date: 03/14/07 23:56
A: Okay, regarding crucifixion issue, it seems that he has been expecting this long before, since he became cotroversial for Jews or non-believers .
He mentioned his SIGN, for those who were very desperate amongst the believers, that it could be NO OTHER THAN THE SIGN OF JONAH.
Didn't Jonah survived, after?
And did n't he tell that he had to go to find his LOST SHEEP.
So there are other things in Bible, too, needed tobe fullfilled.
What do you really believe in, regarding his birth?
Was he ACCEPTED by the Jews, who blamed them, and whom Jesus himself believed to be an ADULTEROUS GENERATION?
Name:Red •
Date: 03/15/07 1:38
A: Im sorry Perceptions, I would answer your questions, but ther'e a few around that dont want me to debate religion. They want to stick to the facts and science about the issue at hand.
Name:CanuckChick •
Date: 03/15/07 4:30
A: Red - Never let em see you sweat.
Name:joe joe •
Date: 03/15/07 4:51
A: The ossuaries were labled in very messy handwritting. The carvings on the outside of the tomb were very strange, and I wish that I knew more about them. It is said that Mary Magdalene traveled to france, but it is not said that she died there. It does seem a bit strange that the seem was so elegantly labeled.
Name:Perceptions •
Date: 03/20/07 3:32
A: A Game of INSCRIPTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!-
^$)^*#@!)(*^#^&%(%^&&**)___-
Name:sam •
Date: 03/26/07 0:22
A: Red,
You brought good questions, here they are:
A- If I were to assume Jesus survived the crucifiction, then logic would dictate that the bible historically can not be relied upon. If the (bible can not be relied upon), then How do we know for sure he was crucified to begin with?.
----------------
To answer (A), I will bring the words of retired Bishop John S. Spong, and those been taken from his best seller books;
- The Bible full of contradictions and errors.
-The Gospels cannot be trusted to be reliable.
- Paul quite obviously was not Trinitarian.
- A God or a faith system that has to be defended daily is finally no God or faith system at all.
- The essence of Christ was confused with the form in which that essence was communicated.
I think the Bishop has a good knowledge to come to declare his findings, and he was not afraid to tell the truth.
Mark & Luke they never been with Jesus or heard his words, but they were taught by Paul. Their stories "That Jesus recieved up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God" & "He parted from them and WAS CARRIED UP INTO HEAVEN", both are false statements, that is if we use logic and common sence to come to the truth, and not blindly believe in everything.
Not long ago the lost "Judas Gospel" was found to prove that what been taught for the last 20 centuries about Jesus' real and good apostle was not right, and the debates started. then,
THE LOST & FOUND TOMB OF JESUS, brought another debates, we can read about them here and there and everywhere. That is when your next question came:
B- So , This places limitations on logic insofar as deducing that question That WAY. Doing it this way requires logic to be applied to an assumption first. To me, this is no good. However, There are dots to connect , but no one is connecting them yet.
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The answer to (B), will come mainly from the words of Jesus, or from the real stories about Him, and if someone seriously wanted to find the truth no matter how, he has to break the chains first and become free because the truth cannot be acceptable to those whom who benefits from keeping things as they are, but in the same time keep using the false even when they found it, Ex. "THE SHROUD OF TORIN", THE Y KEPT IT EVEN AFTER IT WAS PROVEN TO BE A HOAX!. Popes still keep it safe and let the people pay !!! HOMAGE, AND A TRIBUTE IS ALWAYS PAID!.
THE TOMB OF JESUS IS REAL, and so are the names of His family. But the question is, "was He crusified for sure" or the people were confused?
the answer will come from what we read. Jesus is a prophet (MR.6:3/4), and He is the "son of man", by His own words many times, and He performed many miracles (and so, is Moses & the others), and He did not claim His miracles to Himself, "I CAN DO NOTHING ON MY OWN INITIATIVE". People know the miracles of healing the sick and bring to life a dead man, but hey FORGET the other miracles, "VANISHING, AND DISAPPEARING FROM PLACES AND FROM ROOM WITH THE DOOR CLOSED, AND DISGUISE HIMSELF AND MAKE HIMSELF UNRECOGNIZABLE", all those been mentioned in the Gospels.
If Jesus can do all that, then it is possible that He can escape, then to appear after.
Then He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, WHY? why not to His mother and brothers and sisters & the twelve, because He has a wife and maybe a son and those should come first, that is the norm.
Then when He appeared he show them parts of His body, and there was no scars on it from a crucifiction, otherwise it will be mentioned.
For sure He did not carried up into heaven, but for a good reason He disappeared, and died sometime latter on and burried in the family tomb, the tomb which been found after two thousand years.
Another source came after six hundres years, but those who burned the many gospels and many people they do not want their followers to know the truth, and they do not care, not even to look at the Quran or give it a chance. The "QURAN" the other holy book from another prophet, who mentioned by Jesus but not accepted by the Roman churches, as Jesus was not accepted by the Jews and the Romans, said:
Q-3:55 When GOD said, “O JESUS, indeed I will take you and raise you to myself and purify you from those who disbelieve,...
Q-19:15 And peace be upon HIM (JESUS) the day he was born and the day HE dies and THE DAY HE IS RAISED ALIVE.
Q-19:33 And peace is on ME the day I was born and the day I will die and THE DAY I AM RAISED ALIVE.
and which Jesus Himself spoke about.
J-16: 13 “BUT WHEN HE, THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH, COMES, HE WILL GUIDE YOU INTO ALL THE TRUTH; FOR HE WILL NOT SPEAK ON HIS OWN INITIATIVE, BUT WHATEVER HE HEARS, HE WILL SPEAK; AND HE WILL DISCLOSE TO YOU ‘WHAT IS TO COME’.
reading both we can come to one conclusion , and that they are related to each other and they came from the same source "GOD". and God said:
"And for their saying, "indeed, we have killed the Meessiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of God." And they did kill Him, nor did they crucify Him; but another was made to resemble Him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. THEY HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF IT EXCEPT THE FOLLOWING OF ASSUMPTION. And they did not kill Him, FOR CERTAIN. Q-4:157
First He did not die on the cross, and there was no scars to prove it.
Second no one saw Him or saw His body not then and not now.
Third, If anyone believe in Jesus miracles then the story in the Quran can be accepted logically, while the stories in the Gospels about Jesus sitting on the right hand of God cannot be accepted logically because no one saw the Holy Spirit or His Throne.
Fourth, this findings came later on, and after nearly 2000 years and in time as a prove to what came in the Quran before 1400 years, and the Quran again proven right, if we know that the Quran said this:
"AND YOU WILL SURELY KNOW THE TRUTH OF ITS INFORMATION AFTER TIME" Q-38:88
Fifth, "AFTER TIME", Many things that been mentioned in this holy book , proven to be scientifically true today. and if anyone really care for the truth then it is easy to find it. The site of THE SCIENTIFIC QURAN GIVE A LOT OF INFORMATION, and it does not hurt to look at them, even as curiosity.
God bless you.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 03/30/07 0:47
A: That arc could be the Freemasons symbol.Joseph was a carpenter.Freemasonary started in Egypt didn't it?Also the ossuaries were written in Arameic.Hard to discipher but I'm sure genuine.
Name:R. Kirk Kilpatrick •
Date: 03/30/07 1:15
A: Panluna:
See www.confirmedword.blogspot.com for March 23 entry on the "chevron and circle" actually being the roofline and shield symbol from the temple of Augustus seen on coins of Herod Philip II from that time. Christians would not mark their tomb doorway with a symbol of Emperor worship.
