Name:Nate Spain •
Title: An Invitation to All... •
Date posted: 03/19/07 15:51
Q: I would like to invite everyone at this forum to take some REAL TIME to thorougly study the information--readily available to all--that shows that Jesus lies dead and buried, in an east/west grave, under the Roza Bal structure, which is located in the Kan Yar section of Srinagar, Kashmir, India.
For a start, you can study the information at www.tombofjesus.com . And I mean, STUDY it. Do not cursorily page through it, and then proclaim, "Oh, that's ridiculous!"
I would invite you to do the same thing with any theory about the historical Jesus, whether it talk about England, France, Japan, Jerusalem or Kashmir. I am directing this to people who are truly interested.
No one has to believe anything. Nobody has to feel like they're "bashing" Christianity. Christians THEMSELVES are bashing Christianity left and right, every day (Sheehan, Spong, the Jesus Seminar, etc., etc.)
Christianity is NOT going to suddenly fall if the grave under the Roza Bal is dug up, and then some smoking gun evidence is found. So, go ahead and study the evidence regarding Jesus in India.
It is NOT light weight evidence. There are tons of documents, written in various languages, including Persian, Arabic, Tibetan, and even Chinese. You will find mention of those documents at The Tomb of Jesus Christ Website at www.tombofjesus.com .
There are inscriptions, carvings, oral traditions of the people of Kashmir, etc. There have been at least two documentaries that discussed, in fairly decent detail, at least the outlines of the Jesus-in-Kashmir belief.
I extend this invitation for this reason (in part): I have watched this for decades now. The Jesus-in-India theory is powerful. And I've asked myself, "Why are these Western scholars ducking it?"
It's not because they've LOOKED into it, and then concluded that it's bogus. Virtually none of them have looked into it, except Kersten and Kaiser. There is a reason for that, and I believe that once you read about the theory, you'll see why they're ducking it.
You can find these on your own, but here are just a few books you can read about Jesus-in-India, and I believe they all can be found at Amazon:
Jesus in Heaven on Earth (Khawaja Nazir Ahmad)
Saving the Savior: Did Christ Survive the Crucifixion? (Abubakr Ben Ishmael Salahuddin)
Jesus Lived in India (Holger Kersten)
Jesus Died in Kashmir (Andreas Faber Kaiser)
Jesus in India (Dr. James Deardorff)
Jesus in India (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad: entire book is online, to be read for free. Google it)
Jesus' Tomb in India (Paul Pappas)
Christ in Kashmir (Aziz Kashmiri)
A Search for the Historical Jesus (Dr. Fida Hassnain)
From Kashmir to Palestine (Paramesh Choudhry)
The Fifth Gospel (Dr. Fida Hassnain)
The Western scholars do not consider non-Western books about Jesus as legitimate. They see Jesus as a figure of the Western tradition. Jesus spent the vast (VAST) majority of his life in the EAST.
There seems to be little incentive for Western scholars to study a tomb that might reveal the truth about Jesus: that he was a man of the East, who may have, in fact, either been influenced by, or participated in, the religions of the East (Hinduism, Buddhism, etc.).
We must not be fooled by quick and dismissive phrases like, "far fetched." So, it is NOT far fetched to believe that dead people come back to life?? As some would say, PA-LEAZE!!
There is nothing far fetched about a trip to India at a time when such trips were relatively easy to make. People got around back then.
Anyway, I again urge people to read all, or most, of the books on Jesus in India. Personally, I would beware of becoming enshared by the "peer reviewed journal" priesthood. If no "peers" do any research, then what is there to review?
Why wait? Get the knowledge yourself. Decades ago, when some of us were doing acupuncture, and other alternative health care regimens, the "scholarly authorities" were dismissing what we were doing as "bogus," without really have any understanding.
But now, today, medical doctors WORK WITH acupuncturists and other alternative healthcare pracitioners. So, please realize that the "authorities" are often 30 years behind those who decide to THINK FOR THEMSELVES.
They will eventually catch up. But, for now, do your own studying. And don't underestimate YOUR OWN abilities to research, be a good detective, and discover some things for yourself.
Name:cheapfeet •
Date: 03/19/07 16:12
A: Mr. Spain . . . it's an awful lot to ask people to entertain ANOTHER damned Jesus-is-buried-here-was-a-real-person theory . . . but I will read the documents & evidence you've suggested. I would suggest that the nobler path is to consider the philosophy of the Gospels & other similar wisdom literature because, in the end, even if we can prove that the man walked the earth & was not crucified but was buried here or there, he himself revealed that the message & not the man is of importance, his crucial chastizement of the pharisees (& now, fittingly, speudo-scientists & pop-archaeologists) . . . & here we are, thousands of years later, that tomb of light & reason & justness buried in every one of us & we cannot, as a community, excavate it or understand it. Good luck with your theories. I hope you prove what you believe is True & I hope that will be enough.
Name:A.R. •
Date: 03/19/07 18:28
A: One Earth and One Creator, definition is of little consequences.
Faith is within - Religion is without!
Only those who decide the human outcome - DIVIDE. For only self purpose. The history of the eath has surely proven this.
Good people of all historical backgrounds have Truth in Love not to Divide the masses. Jesus, like soo many other was one.
Those who have written many tales in different languages have to be open to all, without lies and secrets.
For time has and will show the one thing - Once an individual starts to truly Think for Oneself and ask questions (along with true research for the questions to be ask). Instead of being led to the slaughterhouse with those who are blinded by teachers who are blind.
Maybe then the GREAT DIVISION on this Earth will finally be heeded.
Name:exact55 •
Date: 03/19/07 19:08
A: @Nate Spain
You have littered this blog with this same reference and it is getting annoying.
Hugely impressed... NOT !
Name:Nate Spain •
Date: 03/19/07 20:42
A: CHEAPFEET:
It's simple: don't read the material. The invitation was for those who **wish** to learn more. There are those who like to learn. Learning is not "another damned" activity to such people. If you're worn out, ignore the invitation, that's all.
I agree 100% with your statement about the philosophy of the Gospel. That is **precisely** the point of those who are interested in the historical Jesus: to point people to WHAT HE SAID, not to his death. That is a huge, subject, though. Thanks for your reply.
EXACT 55
Annoying to you--who I am definitely **not** trying to impression, since there is nothing about you (especially since I don't know you) for which I feel the need to "impress" you.
The theory will be repeated again, by me, at this forum, as I realize that there are those who have not heard of it, and who might miss **whichever** post I have submitted thus far. Again, it's a simple matter: When you see my name, ignore the post.
Why CONTINUE reading something for which you are not "impressed."
The intent is to pass on information, not to "impress." Tell me: What is it about you; about your BACKGROUND, or about your NATIONALITY that causes you to feel that you have to be...impressed? I can guess, but I'll keep quiet.
That, in fact, is one reason I love the theory of Jesus in India: Because no one in Kashmir is trying to IMPRESS those who generally feel that they must be...impressed (a feeling they seem to inheret, due to...)
The Kashmir theory is self-contained, not connected to the West; not connected to "New Age"; not connected to Nicholas Notovitch, Israeli tombs, French mounds, or English maps with so-called "codes" embedded.
The Kashmiri theory is ASIAN-Indian. It's documents are in Persian, Sanskrit, Hindi, Tibetan, Chinese, and Arabic (Kashmiri historians, for instance). It's documents have not been scrutinzed by Western "peer review journals" simply because no Western "peers," except for two, have had the nerve (or language knowledge, it seems) to examine the evidence. Can't have a "peer review" without first studying the material.
I wish you knew me, exact55. Then you'd know what I feel about trying to impress the likes of you [or those like you].
Name:cheapfeet •
Date: 03/19/07 22:29
A: first thing . . . 'pseudo . . .' I knew that! . . .
Nate . . . I of course am not criticizing another's desire to learn & I am going to give your material a genuine look over . . . I will admit that I'm instinctively unconvinced of Jesus' temporal existence . . . I would say I am convinced of Tom Harpur's & Earl Doherty's theories, not only for the soundness & conviction of these but because of my own instincts & studies . . . no need to debunk their theories here please . . . they were mine articulated . . .
The reality is that altho' we may all agree that the Gospel message is of prime importance . . . well, we constantly prove we don't: I really don't think that many proffessionals & even passionate forum posters prove this when they are concerned/obsessed/distracted by complex &, I believe, oh so sketchy & inconsistant & debateable theories about, for ex., Jesus' tomb located here or there. There is ABSOLUTELY nothing confusing or debateable (for me) about the gospel message . . . & I am in no way associated with any christian organization . . . my heroes are D.H. Lawrence, Blake, Leonard Cohen, Louis Armstrong, Jesus, Son House, etc . . .
Jesus' gospel message (Buddha's, Muhammad's, etc.) is THE essential message of all of our civilizations . . . it trumps the dictates & discoveries of honest science which are evident in & of themselves. I am haunted by the wisdom of the gospels (& Lawrence & Blake & Lennon & Ghandi) & our species' fumbling, blinded response.
You will forgive my focus when I tell you it is the product of a world-weariness . . . that same heart-breaking weariness Jesus displays in the Gospel narratives. I certainly defend, respect & admire all pursuits of Truth in the face of lies & laziness & ignorance & deceit . . . but that weariness, that vision & thirst for gospel law has been deflected & crushed & underminded for THOUSANDS of years even BEFORE Jesus. In the face of that fact any deviation from it's global realization is just more abyssmal nit-picking & dodging of issue . . . it is more weariness on top of ancient oceans of weariness . . . it is high time that we as citizens & scientists & artists & housewives & 9-5ers approached the wisdom deeply rooted in all of our cultures & selves. I'm sorry Nate, it isn't anything personal at all, but if you decide to court the temporal & invest importance away from what you may even think is more important . . . well then you have miilions starving in Africa, you have George Bush for ruler of the free world, you have global warming, you have religious wars & murder, you have souls languishing in front of TVs, you have exactly what you're asking for: compromise & death.
Hmmm . . . i don't know if i'm really the forum type . . .
Name:cheapfeet •
Date: 03/19/07 22:35
A: P.S. If the discovery that Jesus was a man & walked the Earth & was buried where you say he is proven true & this leads us to a gospelized culture then I of course commend your efforts . . . I'm willing to be wrong about anything if it opens the hearts & minds of men & women . . . I will happily look the fool . . . there has to be a certain loss of ego for all this to happen . . . there is so much personal ego-work involved in these theories tho' . . . you see why I'm sceptical . . . Good luck, I hope you're right if it's all for the good . . .
Name:Mark-Tao •
Date: 03/19/07 23:09
A: Nate,
I've lost track of how many times I've seen you post this same information on thread after thread. I guess it was time to give it a thread of its own. Does this mean you're done re-posting this on other threads?
Name:Perceptions •
Date: 03/20/07 2:02
A: Hi Nate!
Have you studied ALL the RECOMMENDED books?
Name:Perceptions •
Date: 03/22/07 0:15
A: well I really want to know if some one has READ any of these BOOKS.
And Nate, I mentioned an aspect of the AYA under discussion, about the MIGRATION of Jeson and her mother, in another thread, too.
What is there standing for MOTHER of Jesus, concerning the tombofjesus.com?
I'm asking you as you seem to be more familiar to it.
Thanks
Name:Enron •
Date: 01/10/09 12:34
A: Nate you left a lot of information out of your comments, and expecially left some good up to date books off your list. There are several important points about identifying a tomb of Jesus in Kashmir and most of these have to do with collecting the DNA and identifying it. It is not for purposes of proving claims to the thrones of the world (although no doubt many nutters will hope so) There are better reasons to seek the science and DNA for the bloodline of Jesus.
First and obvious that he married and sired children. Second, DNA would reveal his own origins. Was he Hebrew? Indo-Asian? European? Did he have the Cohenism marker of a Jewish priest descended from Aaron? Does his DNA match the Shroud of Turin? With the DNA of Jesus, members of his family might also be identified, such as answering if he is the line as the ancient pharaohs.
I read two books that talk about the DNA of Jesus and answer the above questions. They are 'Jesus in Kashmir The Lost Tomb' and 'Roza Bal The Tomb of Jesus'. Both were written by Suzanne Olsson. I am not trying to "plug" anyone's books here. I just don;t know of any neweer reasearch into this. She lived in India and wrote these books after years of new research and investigations.
In 'Roza Bal" (in the last section) she published her own DNA and the DNA of the apostle Luke that was recently recovered from one of his teeth. They were a near perfect match, indicating they shared a common relative some time in the past. Olsson used this technique to demonstrate how easy it would be to identify Jesus descendents from the same era. Olsson believes the tomb in Kashmir is Jesus, and presents very convincing evidence. DNA was recovered from the Talpiot ossuary but only from a few remaining bone fragments scattered in the corners. No telling who they belonged to. I hope the work continues about Talpiot and about Kashmir. The truth is out there somewhere.
Name:QuebecIndieAnna •
Date: 01/19/09 0:20
A: .
Sunday, Jan 18th, 2009
Evening Nate.
I watched the 57-minute BBC report on YouTube regarding the possibility that Jesus survived the cross.
Thought-provoking.
Have the Talpiot tomb proponents said anything about the
theory that Jesus left Palestine?
Indie
Quebec, Canada
.
Name:QuebecIndieAnna •
Date: 01/25/09 14:07
A: .
Nate
My Sunday morning today has been to revit some of the links of this site.
Under the tabe "Alternate Theories", the following paragraph appears :
"The main text that supports the theory that Jesus was
buried in Kashmir is the Bhavishya Maha Purana,
the ninth book of the eighteen texts considered holy by Hindus;
this text records the encounter between king Shalivahan and
Jesus Christ, long after the crucifixion.
In this passage, Jesus describes himself as being
born of a virgin
and as
the Son of God.
The description of Jesus in the Bhavishya Maha Purana records
him as being fair skinned as wearing a white garment.
Historians contend that this document has great value because,
unlike the Gospels, it can be traced to be a specific date,
the year 115 CE, which according to the account that Jesus lived
120 years, would have taken place five years prior to Jesus’ death. "
The questions I have are :
Question 1 :
Since the exegesis by scholars (in clip mentioned in post above this one)
seems to have the Gosples themselves 'allowing' for an alive Jesus going off 'somewhere' and promising to 'return',
is there an article by other scholars that criticize this exegesis?
Question 2 :
The Kashmiri text (mentioned in the quote I just pasted) says that Jesus,
in the year 151, says he is the son of God and born of a virgin.
Are the 'son of God' and 'born of a virgin' 'doctrines'
around before the year 151???
Are these doctrines not the result of later theological construct?
Is there not a certain anchronistic fog here?
Nevertheless,
I grant you that the 57 minute YouTube link you directed
us to, the clip that contains exegetical analysis of
end-of-Gospel accounts,
that point to 'I'm going away, I'll be back'
statements ,
as possibly being statements of a Jesus who survived the crucifixion,
did arouse my intetest.
Indie
.
Name:Judith •
Date: 02/01/09 9:07
A: QuebecIndieAnna
I haven't read that yet, I want to . I do have a problem with the timing.
Most accounts say Jesus was born in about 4 BC That would be and additional seven years ] If he lived to be 120 years of age, he would have died in 112 or 113 CE
unlike the Gospels, it can be traced to be a specific date,
the year 115 CE, which according to the account that Jesus lived
120 years, would have taken place five years prior to Jesus’ death. "
