Name:zulu •
Title: Ascension •
Date posted: 02/27/07 13:50
Q: What is the position of the church about ascension? did it have to be physical? is there debate on the issue?
Name:unapimper •
Date: 02/27/07 15:05
A: I believe it to be spiritual. The problem with many Christians nowadays is that they take the Bible's symbolism and parables way too literal.
Name:Jesus •
Date: 02/27/07 15:55
A: I to believe it to be spiritual.
Name:followingchrist82 •
Date: 02/27/07 16:19
A: Absolutely it is physical. What sense would it make for God to raise Jesus bodily from the dead (and remember, he ate fish in front of the apostles to prove he was physically alive) and then ascend spiritually, only to have his corpse drop again and have to be reburied. And not only that, a second burial is NEVER once mentioned in the Gospels. Spiritual ascension believers deny the overwhelming evidence of the gospels.
Name:unapimper •
Date: 02/27/07 16:25
A: followingchrist82: Perhaps you forget Jesus, his followers and Christians in general have been persecuted for centuries, what makes you think they'll make the 2nd burial known to anyone? The Bible in itself is full of conflicting accounts, not to mention it is but a book written by man, how can you say with a straight face that there is "overwhelming evidence" in the gospels?
Name:Heather •
Date: 02/27/07 16:35
A: Some people believe that Jesus was actually alive for eleven years after his death. There's actually written accounts of this. It's not totally unfounded considering all the apostles were eventually martyred.
Name:followingchrist82 •
Date: 02/27/07 16:53
A: unapimper, I have studied the gospels and they are the earliest accounts of Jesus of Nazareth. The ossuary period lasted no later than 70 AD as this is when the Romans destroyed the Temple and banished the Jews. John was still alive then and never mentions it. He died in 96 AD. 36 years later and still, no reburial mentioned? And it says Jesus spent 50 days with the disciples and then ascended to heaven, not 11 years. They say Jesus ascended and yet didn't rebury him if he spiritually did so. They would have said so. So your argument is flawed.
Name:Abigail •
Date: 02/27/07 17:41
A: I don't see that it refutes it. The resurrection and ascension in my opinion were spiritual. Plus the bones shows that Jesus was human, like us and so it affirms his connection to us.
Name:Peas •
Date: 02/27/07 17:41
A: "16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God."
"24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven."
The gospels aren't clear as to whether it is physical or spiritual ascension. So this argument about which one is right is moot.
Name:ollypop •
Date: 02/27/07 21:41
A: Does anyone question why the "resurrection" of Jesus parallels so many other forebears of other religeons? Just a question?
Name:tricker •
Date: 02/28/07 1:54
A: unapimper,
The Bible is the Word of the Living God, and is infallible, and unerring, in the original language. It was only written by men's hands. It is inspired by God and man wrote only what God had them write. There are no conflicting accounts. Did you hear that on your atheist forum? If so, you're misinformed.
Tricker
Name:ollypop •
Date: 02/28/07 15:04
A: tricker,
What of the many other gospels written by Christians in the first two centuries? Are you seriously saying that only those four hold any insight into Christ?
The fact that the bible has been edited at many synods throughout the church's history should make it obvious that gods words (the bible) has been used for the church's good.
Name:marty •
Date: 02/28/07 19:45
A: actually the position of the church about the ascension is not spiritual...it is believed to be physical;so if this discovery it is totally proved ..they attack the church (figuratively speaking )and also the Christianity ;because it contests the divinity of JESUS.
Name:ollypop •
Date: 02/28/07 20:03
A: Jesus Was divine!!!!
I don't need to belive the Church's editing of His teachings to believe he was divine?
The early writers of Christianity were under incredible stress to continue their faith and their teachings cannot be dismissed, but the truth of Christ cannot be taken without the logical skepticism applied to the Bible an organization with as much vested interest as the "Church" changed and edtined to their own purposes
Name:tricker •
Date: 03/01/07 4:32
A: unapimper,
I didn't say anything about any gospels. I don't understand what your question is.
Name:osirius608 •
Date: 03/01/07 20:42
A: OK...to all of the "CHRISTIANS" here, I have ONE QUESTION:
After being told in your Bible that man is imperfect, that he is capable of sin...how can you believe that the book is HONEST even though it has been touched by MAN. We have "holy men" today who show just how IMPERFECT they are...I believe in FAITH that has a foundation in TRUST...WHERE can you trust something that has proven that it CAN'T be trusted?!!! After all, a man got killed on a torture device for NOT believing what was accepted...the Book the written 200 years after his death...that's 200 years of MANY people writing their view (opinion), getting collected and then sifted into categories based on "angles" by one person who was told to do it by religious zealots who wanted control and power. Some books were left out because the contradictions were too strong, some were left in, and those confuse everyone to the point of where we are today. When you TRANSLATE, you define based on opinion of a topic, not EXACT wording and meaning. Today, he is known as Jesus, but in his time, the letter "J" didn't even exist...his name was Yeshua. If we got THAT wrong, what ELSE is wrong?! Have an one mind people to the possibilities.
Name:tricker •
Date: 03/02/07 7:08
A: My apologies to unapimper and to ollypop,
I addressed my last post to unapimper instead of ollypop. I will try again.
ollypop,
I didn't mention Gospels in my post. I'm unsure of your question. Could you clarify, please?
The Bible in the original language has not been edited.
Name:BlessedChildofGod333 •
Date: 03/03/07 10:22
A: As the first witness to the empty tomb, Mary Magdalene went to tell Peter and John, (John 20:1-2), (gaining her the epithet "apostle to the apostles") and again immediately returned to the sepulchre. She remained there weeping at the door of the tomb.
According to John MARY MAGDALENE was the first witness of the Resurrection appearances of Jesus, though at first she did not recognise him.
When he said her name she was recalled to consciousness, and cried, Rabboni. She wanted to cling to him, but he forbade her:
John 20:17 "Jesus said to her,
'Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, "I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God."'"
JESUS TOLD MARY MAGDALENE TO BACK OFF AND NOT TO CLING TO HIM
WAS IT BECAUSE IT WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN THE SAME TYPE OF PHYSICAL BODY?
Name:Santiago •
Date: 03/04/07 14:07
A: Simply a spiritual resurrection is not scripturally accurate.
"And He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39"See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." (Luke 24:38-39).
"25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe." (John 20:25)
Name:Pat •
Date: 03/04/07 17:57
A: mark 16:5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.
This young man was an angel Greek word meaning messenger (or an alien) that had attended to bring Jesus back to life. In a very scientific way they either cloned him back or got that dead body to be reawaken. In today’s world some doctors manage to bring the clinical dead back.
Why is this so scientific because of the following
Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Meaning in due time man will know how to use and drink antivenin serum, they will do open heart surgery or any other operations with their hands to cure sick humans.
Name:Pat •
Date: 03/04/07 18:48
A: Marc 20/11. But Mary stood without at the sepulcher weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulcher,
12. And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.
13. And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him.
14. And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
What was going on there?
At first glance we can see that Mary looked into the sepulcher and cried because she sees two angles (aliens ) sitting where once Jesus dead had been lain
She is crying because she does not know where the body of Jesus is at the present .
She also turns around and does not recognized Jesus. She talks and asks Jesus thinking that he is the gardener of the cemetery if he knows anything about Jesus whereabouts.
Jesus body and looks must of changed drastically since she only recognizes him by his voice once that he has started talking to her.
Im my view standing there we have a new Cloned back to life Jesus where once his old body was once laid while later that night he appears to his apostles.
To me the old body of Jesus was just buried elsewhere and that is why we might find the real the bones of Jesus and in another place.
In the meantime Jesus new cloned body still kept the same holes in his hands and feet to be recognized and that is why Tomas doubtless is so important. It proves that like him (Jesus) we can relive in another body and in a way resurect and be eternal and even on a physical level.
Then same night he appears to his apostles Marc 20 20. And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
They only recognized him and agreed because of his words voice and body marks of the crucifixion.
Further Jesus emphasis that his father had created him and that Mary and everyone too was part of a scientific bioengineering creation..
Meaning that his father had created them.
Name:wygantsh •
Date: 03/04/07 20:41
A: Q: WHAT IS THE POSITION OF THE CHURCH ABOUT ASCENSION?
A; By church I hope that would include Judiasm and Christianity since we are talking about JESUS who was a JEW after all. Since Jesus is the head of the Christian church I believe that his Ascension into heaven is an ability that he demonstrated to de-materialize his physical body at will and re-materialize it at will which I believe that ALL men are capable of achieving.
It appears that he had this ability PRIOR to his death on the cross and ressurection. This is manifest in Matthew 17 when Jesus turns his physical body into a glorified (ressurected - ascended body) when it is TRANSFIGURED in front of Peter, James and John.
It is interesting to note that Jesus is talking to Moses and Elijah and ALL 3 of them are without a physical body yet appear in a brilliant white light body seen by the HOly Spirit NOT the physical eyes in much the same way the children at Fatima saw Mary the mother of Christ.
Elijah and Moses and Jesus are talking together AS brothers. This important meeting affirms Elijah's physical asension (translation) which is recorded in the 2nd book of Kings. It also affirms Moses spiritual ascension given the fact that Moses left a body behind.
SO we can reasonably conclude that the Ascension of a soul can occur with or without a physical body since the physical body cannot ascend into heaven. The physical body must either be translated into a body of light (TRANSFIGURATION or RESSURECTION) OR left behind when the soul leaves the physical body at death. Since both obviously occured in the case of Moses (non-physical ascension) and Elijah (physical ascension) it really doesn't matter.
The physical body is simply an animal covering to house the soul for a very short period of time in respect to the average length of time that a soul has to incarnate repeatedly until it has mastered the elements of earth and gained enough WHITE RAIMENT to cover its nakedness and ASCEND back to ELOHIM.
Jesus gives us this teaching very clearly in the first 3 chapters of the 'little book' at the end of the canon; 'REVELATION'. He says very clearly: "I counsel thee to buy of me WHITE RAIMENT so that thy nakedness doth not appear." He also refers to this in the Gospels as a wedding garment (WHITE) necessary to undergo the marriage of the soul to the I AM THAT I AM (YHVH).
Name:GaryR54 •
Date: 03/05/07 6:49
A: What does the Bible have to say concerning the distinction between the way in Jesus is supposed to have ascended to heaven (i.e., physically) as opposed the way in which believers are said to ascend (i.e., spiritually, with their physical remains left behind)? It seems contradictory to me that Christians believe in a physical resurrection of Jesus, but at the same time, believe that man only ascends to heaven spiritually. In fact, some Christians believe that the dead won't rise to heaven until the Rapture is fulfilled. Is there some heirachical difference in the resurrection of the human spirit and the resurrection of Jesus, then? I ask this because, if one accepts that Jesus ascended spiritually, as opposed to physically, there'd be no conflict between the evidence presented here and the resurrection of Jesus. The only conflict seems to be in the insistence that he arose physically from the dead. If that's to be believed, then there is a marked difference between the resurrection of Jesus and the promised resurrection of all who believe in him. No Christian sect I know of believes that humans physically survive death as Jesus is reputed to have done.
Name:Jim •
Date: 03/05/07 10:18
A: The bible does have perceived errors and some inconsistencies. For example, Mt 27:44 indicates that both thieves were casting insults at Jesus, but Luke’s account (23:40-43) indicates that one of the men was defending Christ and asking for forgiveness. Also, Exodus 20:11 states that the children of Israel were to remember the Sabbath Day as a memorial of creation, but Deuteronomy 5:15 states to keep this day to remember their deliverance from Egypt. Also, the book of Malachi says that God does not change (3:6) and that His priests (Levites) will execute their Priestly office forever (Heb 7:5), yet Hebrews 7:12 indicates that not only has the priesthood changed, but out of necessity, a change also of the law. Finally, Hebrews, chapter ten, tells us that we no longer need to sacrifice, yet Zechariah 14:21 clearly states that Christ will plant His feet upon the soil of Jerusalem and that “…and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them” (compare also Is. 66:20-24). This is but a few that I can quickly recall, but I believe it proves the point. Do I think that these apparent mismatches invalidate the scriptures? Hardly, in my opinion it reinforces the fact that they are relevant. Comparing only the New Testament gospels, if they matched up exactly; I would feel that the writers were collaborating their stories and thus invalidate the message. The fact that the bible is a compilation spanning centuries with many different authors, yet maintains the same theme and overall message is astounding. Also, if one compares the prophecies of Daniel with history, a clear fulfillment of the Babylonian, Greek, Medo-Persian, and Roman empires authenticates his vision, and thus the author. When compared with Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Revelations, a common thread permeates the message. Further, concerning Christ, no other event in history matches so perfectly with the prophetic identifiers that led to the rise of Christianity.
Name:Jim •
Date: 03/05/07 10:23
A: Concerning the issue of going to heaven at death, Gary R54 brings up some good arguments. The fact is that many believe that man has an immortal soul, yet scripture does not teach this theology. In fact, it teaches just the opposite.
1Jo 4:12, “No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.”
According to 1 Cor 15:22-23, Jesus must return before the resurrection; “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.”
Then in verse 53, “For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.”
This clearly states that we must put on immortality. If we already had immortality, they why do we need Jesus to give it to us? This is also substantiated in Jhn 6:40, “And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
The fact is that Christ is to rule on the earth, not in heaven, and He will resurrect David to be king over them:
Act 2:29, “Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.”
Act 15:16, “After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:”
(Ez 37:24,25, “And David my servant [shall be] king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them… and my servant David [shall be] their prince for ever.”
Rev 5:10, “And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.”
Rev 21:1-2, “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”
Zech 14:4, 6, 8-9, “And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives… And it shall be in that day, [that] living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.”
Mainstream Christianity teaches many ideas that are often a stretch of what is contained within scripture and extrapolate many ideas from myth and historical culture. The idea that man has an immortal soul may possibly be traced to the twisted words of Lucifer to Eve in the Garden of Eden: “And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die” (Gen 3:4), and the misunderstanding of the word “spirit,” as in Ecc 12:7:
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.”
In the Hebrew lexican (Strong’s 07307), the word is “Ruwach,” which has several different meanings, including, wind, breath, air, and gas. But we know that man has something, an essence of God that differentiates us from the animal kingdom, for we are made in His image. For example, the account of Nebuchadnezzar turning into essentially an animal, when God had removed the man’s reasoning (Daniel 4:31-34). But to extrapolate that a man has an immortal soul is quite a stretch. Paul, Peter, and even Luke, often stated that those in Christ had fallen asleep (Acts 7:60, 1 Cor 15:6, 18, 1 Tehs 4:13, 15, and 2 Pe 3:4).
Though I cannot be certain about what may or may not happen to a person’s “soul” or “spirit,” I am comforted by the fact that to those who die in Jesus, whatever the process, will awaken to His voice and that the span of time; be it lengthy or instantaneous, will seem but a blip of the clock.
Name:Jim •
Date: 03/06/07 10:54
A: Why believe?
Leaving aside the “personal” conviction aspect, I can tell Osirius608 why I believe what I do. I refer to secular events, science, and yes, the scriptures, to prove the existence of a higher authority. Secular proofs are found in the writings of Josephus (a Jewish historian), Roman records, and historical events, to name a few. One may even refer to other religious compilations, such as the Q’uran and Jewish writings, to prove Jesus’ existence upon the earth (Islam mentions the lineage of Abraham, Yisa (Jesus), and the “people of the book” in favorable light). Before going any further, let’s establish why I believe the bible is an inspired compilation by looking into some interesting evidences. Though no where near comprehensive, I hope to at least give some reason other than a warm fuzzy as to why I believe in God, the Word, and His Christ:
Scientific:
The book of Genesis (9:4) dictates for man not to eat blood, because it contains the life. Now, of course it does not take a genius to determine that if an organism loses this fluid, it will die, but I am not so sure that the early people of about 4,000 plus years ago had microscopes to see hemoglobin, DNA, and cellular structures. God said “the life” was in the blood, not just that the thing would die without it. Further, who would have suspected the kinds of pathogens and “scary stuff” that blood contains? Only recently has blood been handled as a bio-hazard material, yet God had commanded the people to stay away from it since the beginning.
Other evidence is found in Leviticus, addressing the issue of “fat:”
Lev 3:17, “[It shall be] a perpetual statute for your generations throughout all your dwellings, that ye eat neither fat nor blood.”
Lev 7:23, “Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, Ye shall eat no manner of fat, of ox, or of sheep, or of goat.”
We know from the MODERN physiological study that fat leads to all kinds of circulatory diseases as well as a host of others, including a link to breast cancer. In effect, a huge chunk of the TORA (1st five books of the bible) addresses issues such as abstaining from people with diseases (quarantine), cleanliness, abstinence of incest, the handling of animal carcasses, animals known for trichinosis (pork), human waste disposal and sanitation methods, etc.
Further, archeological finds are usually compared against biblical accounts to help in dating empires, giving the scriptures “scientific credibility.”
Religious credibility supported by history:
Though considered controversial, Flavius Josephus discusses Jesus in his work entitled “Testimonium Flavianum,” where he mentions the following:
“Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wik-i/Josephus_on_Jesus)
Othe-r- Historians include Origen, Justin, and many of the 1st century church fathers.
Other historical accounts merge secular and sacred. I defer back to not only the archeological support, but go one step further by establishing the bible as inspired through prophetic fulfillment, and proven by history, which is the real test of authenticity. To support the “Inspired” element of this topic, one need only look to some of the well-established points of history, such as the successive empires discussed in the book of Daniel. For example, Daniel (chapter 2) prophesizes about four successive empires that baffles historians to this day as to the accuracy of his proclamation, seeing as how they were written decades before they actually occurred. The prophecy addresses four successive empires (Babylon, Greece, Medo-Persia, and Rome), which have been well-documented throughout history. Some historians attempt to claim that the prophecies were written after the fact, but most disagree on this point.
Other prophetic fulfillments coincide with events such as the creation of the Jewish state of Israel in 1948. This event is represented as a dual prophecy from Ezekiel 37:1-14, where God proclaimed that Israel would be “resurrected” and brought back to their own land. Most theologians and scholars agree that this prophecy has been fulfilled, but I go one step further. I say this is dual because a future fulfillment is coming involving a literal resurrection from the dead, but that’s just me. The bible is a little less than 1/3 prophecy, and by these things one can conclude that an unseen force must be at work.
OK, so “if” we have established that the bible contains at least “some” truth and mystical foretelling of the future, then we may move another step towards why so many believe in Jesus.
To accomplish this, one must delve into the biblical accounts and compare them with secular records. For example: common knowledge does not dispute the existence of Jesus or the fact that He was crucified by Roman methods. The question to ask at this point is “why?” Obviously, He was seen as a threat to the geopolitical system of Roman rule; but Romans eagerly embraced other gods and religions as part of their culture. In fact, Rome could care less about any religion, as long as it did not interrupt the flow of taxes and order. Because Christianity was actually associated with Judaism, now that presented a problem, for Rome had a constant issue with Jewish rebels.
The fact is, Judaism was the only religion of the day that proclaimed the belief in “One true God,” giving them a credible edge over all polytheistic religions (centuries of belief), from a theological perspective. Leaving the secular and delving into the sacred, with the understanding that Judaism was the only known established way to commune with the “One God,” then certain credence must be applied to their writings, based upon the historic, scientific, and prophetic reasoning already purported. Establishing His Messiahship, now that’s the tricky part.
From this point, comparing the prophecies concerning the Messiah with the events of the day provides support of the Christ being born. No other event in history matches so perfectly of the prophetic writings concerning this man (ps 23, Is 53, etc.). Even astrological calendars pointed towards a major event, where three planets aligned to form a bright “star” in the heavens.
To prove that Christ is who He claimed (vice just another prophet), one must look to His prophecies. For example, Jesus foretold the destruction of Jerusalem, which happened about 37 years after His death (Mt 24). This event meshes both sacred and secular, proving one another. He also foretold of His church being established that would promote a new and better way (just look at Christianity itself as proof here). In fact, the movement was so powerful that Jews were leaving the synagogues in droves. One must ask why? Christians were becoming the target of Roman sport and no end seemed to be in sight, yet convert they did. If Christianity was a lie, then why the martyrdom of so many that had met and associated with Jesus, if in deed He was a fraud? If His disciples were responsible for the empty tomb, knowing full well that He was dead and buried, why die at the hands of the masters of torture for a falsehood? The only logical conclusion is that something so insane had happened, that they were willing to die for it. In fact, if one really looks into the writings about Christ (the four gospels), what is discovered is how uncommon he truly was. His sayings trouble people to this day, for they seem to against human nature (i.e., love your enemies, do good to those that persecute you, adultery in the heart is still adultery, happiness does not come by way of money, etc). In a nutshell, His arguments are very hard to refute, meaning there was something special about this man. Don’t take my word for it, try reading the book of John and draw your own conclusions.
These challengers to the faith need only look into the events, with the “open mind” that most tout, to make an educated conclusion. Many have their facts wrong, such as Osirius608 believing that the four gospels were written 200 years later, and should get their facts straight before attacking other forum members. (By the way, Osirius608, it is understood that the four gospels were written approx. “50-100” AD [http://en.wikipedia.org/w-iki/Four_Gospels]).
Tak-e- nothing for granted. I once met a person that stated “I don’t know why I believe it, I just do,” when asked about their Christian beliefs. This is not biblical:
Act 17:11, “These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
1Jo 4:1, “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.”
1Th 5:21, “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.”
I believe in the power of emotion as a personal reinforcement of faith. Without the “personal” conviction, there can be no true conversion. I also believe in proving all things and the facts of His existence and claim to fame are there, one must simply go out and get them.
The Truth is out there…
Name:NormDoering •
Date: 03/06/07 12:11
A: I had a lot of sympathy for Mr. Jacobovichi when he had to face Ted Koppel's theologians at the end. The program got absurd for me when hearing one of the theologians arguing for the bodily ascension of Jesus into the sky. I mean, dude, where did his body go? You think heaven is up in the sky? What's up there is 350,000 feet worth of atmosphere and then the vacuum of space and the Van Allen radiation belts. Where did Jesus' body go? To the Moon? Is Heaven hiding behind a cloud? If it all weren't so tragically insane it would be funny.
http://normdoering.blogspot.com
Name:Jack D Viau •
Date: 03/07/07 4:59
A: It must therefore be evident that composite Christian theology encounters great difficulty in attaining consistency. This difficulty is further aggravated by the fact that the doctrines of early Christianity were generally based on the personal religious experience of three different persons: Philo of Alexandria, Jesus of Nazareth, and Paul of Tarsus.
The nature of God can be studied in a revelation of supreme ideas.
The divine character can be envisaged as a portrayal of supernal ideals, but the most enlightening and spiritually edifying of all revelations of the divine nature is to be found in the comprehension of the religious life of Jesus of Nazareth, both before and after his attainment of full consciousness of divinity. If the incarnated life of Jesus is taken as the background of the revelation of God to man, we may attempt to put in human word symbols certain ideas and ideals concerning the divine nature which may possibly contribute to a further illumination and unification of the human concept of the nature and the character of the personality of the Universal Father
