Name:sam •
Title: Can we trust the Bible? •
Date posted: 01/23/11 22:42
Q: ERRORS, CONTRADICTIONS & BLUNDER.
Can we trust the Bible? Part - 1 ( youtube-video)
ALL THE INFORMATION I BROUGHT IN THIS SUBJECT ARE COLLECTED FROM THE WORKS OR THE SPEECHES OF PREVIOUSLY CHRISTIAN SCHOLARS . Their words are put between brackets followed by their name, and then after by abbreviation.
Before answering this question, one should ask SOME important questions which will lead to the truth, so no one can give a naive or foolish answer of I do trust the Bible, or I do not.
First question: WHO WROTE THE BIBLE ?.
Dr. Bart Ehrman said:
[WE DON’T KNOW WHO WROTE THESE BOOKS (THE GOSPELS), THE NAMES (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) WERE ADDED LATER ON .......Scribes who altered Scripture and readers who may never know.]
Here I found some examples: 1John 5:7/8
---- In the N.T. , from my Bible, it reads:
5:7 - For there are three that testify:
5:8 - the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
In the K.J.B. (from the catholic site), it reads:
5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
Above we find that the ....{in heaven, the father, the word, and the holy ghost: and these three are one} , been added by someone from the churches, and NOT BY GOD.
And also the {THERE ARE THREE THAT BEAR WITNESS IN EARTH }been added too,.... and “AND THE THREE ARE IN AGREEMENT” , changed to “THESE THREE AGREE IN ONE”
---- In the Gospel ACCORDING to Mark, the verses from 16:9 to 16:20 which came between brackets were not written in the original manuscripts, but been added later .
I CAN SEE, THAT THOSE WHO WROTE THE BIBLE ARE NOT HONEST IN KEEPING THE WORDS WHICH THEY CLAIM AS THE WORDS OF GOD .
Those are just two examples from so many, that the people of the churches and their scribes had altered the words of the Bible. And the Bible have many different versions, the old and the new or whatsoever. That will lead Dr. Ehrman to say:
[There is bumper sticker that reads, “God said it, I believe it.” But what if God didn’t say it?.
We have over 5000 of manuscripts, (of the new testament), and not two of them are exactly alike, there is hundred of thousand differences in those manuscripts, THE FACT , WE DO NOT HAVE THE ORIGINAL.....We don’t know what the original said.
About the famous story in John gospel “THE ADULTEROUS WOMAN”: Scholars have known for several centuries that THIS STORY WAS NOT ORIGINALLY IN THE GOSPEL “ACCORDING” TO JOHN, AND FOR THOUSAND YEAR. ‘Where this story come from?’ WE DON’T KNOW. ] Dr. B.E.
There are many highly educate, honest, and open minded scholars who came with the same findings, but as for those who are blinded by their faith will ever accept the truth.
SO NO ONE KNOWS FOR CERTAIN WHO WROTE THE HOLY BOOKS, AND NOT EVEN THE RIGHT TIME WHEN IT WAS WRITTEN, AND THEY ARE GUESSING THE TIME, BETWEEN 65 & 95 AD [AS IN CASE OF THE GOSPELS], AND THE WRITING CAME AFTER 40-45 FROM THE EVENTS, AND ALL SCHOLARS KNEW THAT THE BIBLE CAME UNDER A LOT OF CHANGES, FROM ADDING, DELETING, CHANGING, ETC., AND THEY KNEW ABOUT THE ERRORS, CONTRADICTIONS, FALLACIES ETC., THERE ARE SO MANY WITHIN THESE HOLY BOOKS, ALL THAT LEAD US TO THE NEXT QUESTION:
Second question: Are ALL THE WORDS of the Bible God’s words [direct or inspired], or ONLY SOME ?
The Bible holds within the stories of the prophets, and their words, and that is just a small part of the Bible, AND THAT IS ONLY WHAT WE SHOULD ACCEPT AS THE TRUE WORDS FROM GOD.
But the greater part of the Bible is the works of the people of the churches and their scribes, hundreds or thousands of them, and in which their works been added later on, and after many years from the actual events, each church and scribes had their own opinion, their own philosophy, their own agenda etc., all that CREATES CONFUSION TO WHAT WAS GOD’S MESSAGE FOR, OR ABOUT.
The scribes words cannot be accepted as the words of God, or the inspiration from God, while their words are full with errors, contradictions, etc., GOD’S WORDS ARE PERFECT AND SPEAKS THE TRUTH ONLY.
GOD WILL NOT PLAY HIDE AND SEEK GAME, OR GIVE A MESSAGE IN A WAY OF A PUZZLE AND LEAVE IT TO THE PEOPLE TO SOLVE.
THE BIBLE AS BEEN FOUND BY MANY CHRISTIAN SCHOLARS OF THE 20th CENTURY, AND APART FROM THE WORDS OF THE PROPHETS MOSES AND JESUS IS IN FACT THE WORKS OF MAN.
1400 YEARS AGO, THE QURAN CAME WITH THE SAME FINDING OF 20TH CENTURY CHRISTIAN SCHOLARS:
So woe to THOSE WHO WRITE THE ‘SCRIPTURE’ WITH THEIR OWN HANDS, THEN SAY, “THIS IS FROM ALLAH [GOD]”, in order to exchange it for a small price....- Quran 2:79
Of course, prophet Muhammad could not come to this fact on His own, or by Himself, since He was ILLITERATE even in His own language [Arabic], while the Bible was written in Hebrew and the gospels in Greek, that makes this findings is coming from THE ONE WHO KNOWS ALL , WHO CREATED ALL.
From the Quran:
- And Allah [God] knows what you reveal and what you conceal.
- HE knows what is within the heaven and earth and knows what you conceal and what you declare.
- Allah [God] knows whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth, and ALLAH [GOD] IS KNOWING OF ALL THINGS.
The third question: “God said it, I believe it.” But what if God didn’t say it?.”
Dr. Ehrman at the start his debates with Dr. Evans , and his lecture at Stanford university, by asking these questions to the hundreds of well educated audience:
- How many of you consider yourself a Bible believing Christian ?
... All raised their hands.
- How many of you will think the Gospels are completely reliable ?
... All raised their hands.
- How many of you read the Da Vinci code ?
... All raised their hands.
- How many of you read the entire Bible ?
... Scattered hands.
Then he asked this question:
- You think God wrote the Bible, I can see why you want to read a book by Dan Brown, but if God wrote a book, would you want to see what HE had to say ?
But this time, no hands were raised, but instead , the audience had a great laughs, while Dr. Ehrman looking at them with smile.
When Dr. Erhman, show a little smile for that, inside him there was the greatest laugh of his life, because he proved his major point to his lecture before even starting it, and that is, the Christians, even the highly educated of them believe in what been taught, “ But what if God didn’t say it?.” that will not means much, because they are a bunch of blind followers.
Most of the religion debates and lectures of thins kind, in public or in universities started very recently, that is when some people find that the truth should be said no matter what is the result.
People, just decades back could come under attack by the churches and its followers, and few hundred years back a man could be killed or burned alive by the churches for less than that, saying few words about the church or the popes it was enough to cost a man his life.
Name:sam •
Date: 01/27/11 22:11
A: Can we trust the Bible?
That was the question of the first post, and came by Dr. Bart Ehrman a renowned Bible scholar, a professor of religious studies at university of North Carolina, who proved that the Bible with all the errors and contradictions cannot be trusted as whole as the true words of God. Many scholars today agree with him.
So, let us see what a Christian preacher had to say.
The following are Yusuf Estes words:
[.....Yet the King James Version has GRAVE DEFECTS... By the middle of the nineteenth century, the development of Biblical studies and the discovery of many manuscripts more ancient than those upon which the King James Version was based, made it manifest that these defects are so many and so serious as to call for a revision of the English translation. The task was undertaken, by authority of the Church of England, in 1870. The English Revised Version of the Bible was published in 1881-1885; and the American Standard Version, its variant embodying the preferences of the American scholars associated in the work, was published in 1901. ......The words are in plain English. The second paragraph says it all, Yet, the King James Version has grave defects. Therefore, we must conclude the King James Version is NOT the Actual Bible sent by God to mankind.
Just to offer a few of the many contradictions and errors of that which is being presented as the Word of God in the Bible I would like to quote the research of scholars of the Bible:
VERSES THAT CONTRADICT THEMSELVES
Genesis 6:3 and Genesis 11:11 - Life limited to 120 years?
Genesis 32:30 and Exodus 33:20 - Jacob's life was preserved?
Exodus 4:22 and Jeremiah 31:9 - Who was God's firstborn?
Numbers 23:19 and Genesis 6:6-7 - Does God repent or not?
2 Samuel 6:23 and 2 Samuel 21:8 - Did Michael have children?
2 Samuel 8:4 and 1 Chronicles 18:4 - 700 or 7000 horsemen?
2 Samuel 8:9-10 and 1 Chronicles 18:9-10 - Toi or Tou? Hadadezer or Hadarezer? Joram or Hadoram?
2 Samuel 10:18 and 1 Chronicles 19:18 - 700 or 7000 charioteers? 40,000 horsemen or footmen? Captain's name?
2 Samuel 24:1 and 1 Chronicles 21:1 - Who provoked David?
2 Samuel 24:9 and 1 Chronicles 21:5 - 800,000 or 100,000?
2 Samuel 24:13 and 1 Chronicles 21:11-12 - 7 or 3 years?
1 Kings 4:26 and 2 Chronicles 9:25 - 40,000 or 4,000 stalls?
1 Kings 5:15-16 and 2 Chronicles 2:2 - 3300 or 3600?
1 Kings 7:26 and 2 Chronicles 4:5 - 2000 or 3000 baths?
2 Kings 8:26 and 2 Chronicles 22:2 - 22 or 42 years old?
2 Kings 24:8 and 2 Chronicles 36:9 - 18 or 8 years old? 3 months or 3 months and 10 days?
Ezra 2:65 and Nehemiah 7:67 - 200 or 245 singers?
Matthew 1:12 and Luke 3:27 - Who was Salathiel's father?
Matthew 1:16 and Luke 3:23 - Who was Joseph's father?
Matthew 9:18 and Mark 5:22-23 - Dead or not?
Matthew 10:5-10 and Mark 6:7-8 - Bring a staff or not?
Matthew 15:21-22 and Mark 7:24-26 - The woman was of Canaan or Greece?
Matthew 20:29-30 and Mark 10:46-47 - One or two beggars?
Matthew 21:1-2 and Mark 11:1-2 - What happened to the ass?
Matthew 26:74-75 and Mark 14:72 - Before the cock crow once or twice?
Matthew 27:5 and Acts 1:18 - How did Judas die?
John 3:16 and Psalms 2:7 - Only begotten son?
John 5:31 and John 8:14 - Was Jesus' record true or not?
VERSES THAT CONTRADICT THE TRINITARIAN DOCTRINE AND/OR THE DIVINITY OF JESUS:
Exodus 33:20, John 1:18, 1 Timothy 6:16 - No one saw God.
Isaiah 42:8 - Do not praise and worship images.
Isaiah 45:1 - Anointed does not mean God .
Matthew 14:23, 19:13, 26:39, 27:46, 26:42-44 - Jesus prayed.
Matthew 24:36 - Jesus was not all-knowing.
Matthew 26:39 - Jesus and God had different wills.
Matthew 28:18 - All power was given to Jesus.
Mark 1:35, 6:46, 14:35-36 - Jesus prayed.
Mark 10:17-18 and Luke 18:18-19 - Jesus denied divinity.
Mark 12:28-29 - God is one.
Mark 13:32 - Jesus was not all-knowing.
Mark 16:19 and Luke 22:69 - Jesus at the right hand of God.
Luke 3:21, 5:16, 6:12, 9:18, 9:28, 11:1-4, 22:41 - Jesus prayed.
Luke 4:18, 9:48, 10:16 - Jesus was from God.
Luke 7:16, 13:33, 24:18-19 - Jesus was a prophet.
Luke 10:21 - Jesus gave thanks.
Luke 23:46 - The spirit of Jesus was commended to God.
John 4:19 - Jesus was a prophet.
John 4:23-24 - Worship in spirit and truth.
John 14:28 - One was greater than the other.
John 5:19, 5:30, 7:28, 8:28 - Jesus was helpless.
John 5:20 - The Father showed the son.
John 5:30 and 6:38 - Jesus and God had different wills.
John 5:31-32 - Jesus' witness was not true.
John 6:11 and 11:41-42 - Jesus gave thanks.
John 6:32 - The Father was the provider, not the son.
John 7:29, 16:5, 16:28 - Jesus was from God.
John 7:16, 12:49, 14:24, 17:14 - Jesus' words were not his.
John 8:42 - Jesus did not come of himself.
John 10:29 - My Father, which gave them to me, is greater than all.
John 14:1 - Jesus said, ...believe also in me.
John 14:16, 17:1, 17:9, 17:11, 17:15 - Jesus prayed.
John 14:31 and 15:10 - Jesus followed commands.
John 17:6-8 - I have given unto them the words which you gave me.
John 20:17 - Jesus had a God.
Acts 2:22 - Jesus was a man approved of God.
Romans 8:34 - Jesus was an intercessor.
1 Timothy 2:5 - Jesus was the mediator between God and humans.
Incidentally, these are really only some selections of contradictions and inaccuracies found in the modern versions of the Bible. There are many more but for the sake of time and space we have limited ourselves to those listed above. ]
The above information were taken from the site [911 Bible] , by Yusuf Estes.
JESUS DENIED DIVINITY AND HE PRAYED TO GOD.....BUT THE CHRISTIANS WORSHIPS JESUS AND PRAY TO HIM .
Mark 10:17-18 As He[Jesus] was setting out on a journey, A MAN run up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, GOOD TEACHER, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? . And Jesus said to him, WHY DO YOU CALL ME GOOD? NO ONE IS GOOD EXCEPT GOD ALONE.
Luke 18:18-19 A RULER questioned Him [Jesus] saying, GOOD TEACHER, what I do to inherit eternal life? And Jesus said to him, WHY DO YOU CALL ME GOOD ?, NO ONE IS GOOD SXEPT GOD
ALONE.
Acts 2:22 Men of Israel, listen to these words; JESUS THE NAZARENE, A MAN {A MAN} ATTESTED TO YOU BY GOD {BY GOD} with miracles and wonders and signs WHICH PERFORMED THROUGH HIM {THROUGH GOD} in your midst, just as you yourselves know - THIS MAN {JESUS}, delivered over BY THE PREDETERMINED PLAN AND FOREKNOWLEDGE OF GOD....
JESUS IS....A MAN...THIS MAN... DELIVERED...BY THE PLAN OF GOD.
WHOM WE SHOULD TRUST ?.
I THINK WE SHOULD TRUST JESUS AND LOVE HIM, AND WE SHOULD TRUST THE WORDS OF GOD, LOVE HIM, AND WORSHIP HIM ALONE.
Name:sam •
Date: 01/28/11 19:13
A: By Jim Meritt:
Subject: A List of Biblical Contradictions .
Mr. Meritt came with a list of some of the contradictions in the Bible, and with each he provided the verses which proves his point of view, and I leave it for the reader of this post to go to the site {911 Bible} to read the whole works.
1-God good to all, or just a few ?...... 2- War or Peace?....... 3- Who is the father of Joseph?
4- Who was at the Empty Tomb? Is it:.... 5- Is Jesus equal to or lesser than?
6- Which first--beasts or man?....... 7- The number of beasts in the ark
8- How many stalls and horsemen? .....9- Is it folly to be wise or not?
10- Human vs. ghostly impregnation........ 11- The sins of the father
12- The bat is not a bird ........13- Rabbits do not chew their cud
14- Insects do NOT have four feet ......15- Snails do not melt
16- Fowl from waters or ground?........17- Odd genetic engineering
18- The shape of the earth .......19- Snakes, while built low, do not eat dirt
20- Earth supported?.......21- Heaven supported too.....22- The hydrological cycle
23- Order of creation ......24-How orderly were things created?
25- How satisfied with creation was he?......26- Moses' personality
27- Righteous live?.......28-Jesus' first sermon plain or mount?
29- Jesus' last words ....30- Years of famine .....31- Moved David to anger?
32-The GENEALOGY OF JESUS?.......
33- God be seen? .......34- God CAN be seen:.....35-God CANNOT be seen
36- CRUEL, UNMERCIFUL, DESTRUCTIVE, and FEROCIOUS or KIND, MERCIFUL, and GOOD:
37- Tempts?......38- Judas died how?.......39-Ascend to heaven
40-What was Jesus' prediction regarding Peter's denial?
41-How many times did the cock crow? .....42-Who killed Saul
43- How many beatitudes in the Sermon on the Mount
44- Does every man sin?......45- Who bought potter's field
46-Who prophesied the potter's field? ....47-Who bears guilt?... 48-Do you answer a fool?
49-How many children did Michael, the daughter of Saul, have?
50- How old was Jehoiachin when he began to reign?.....51- Marriage?
52- Did those with Saul/Paul at his conversion hear a voice?
53- Where was Jesus three days after his baptism?
54- How many apostles were in office between the resurrection and ascent ion?
55- Judging.....56- Good deeds .....57- For or against?
58- Whom did they see at the tomb? .....59- God change?
60-Destruction of cities (what said was Jeremiah was Zechariah)
61- Who's sepulchers ....62- Strong drink?.....63When second coming?
64- Solomon's overseers ......65- The mother of Abijah: ......66- When did Baasha die?
67- How old was Ahaziah when he began to reign?.....68-Who was Josiah's successor?
69- The differences in the census figures of Ezra and Nehemiah.
70- What was the color of the robe placed on Jesus during his trial?
71- What did they give him to drink?......72- How long was Jesus in the tomb? .
In my three previous posts I brought the works of those Christians who believe in that the Bible cannot be trusted, and while doing that I tried to find if there is anyone who come to defends the Bible, and at last I found one who came to challenge Mr. Jim Meritt.
{Dan Barker’s Easter challenge answered}
You can read the whole works of his challenge, then you can build your own judgment, as to whom you think is honestly brings the facts and the truth.
As for me I see the truth can be found only by looking at what came in the whole Bible, word by word and phrase by phrase, and everything suppose to be in perfect co-ordination, and not one contradicts another in anyway, since those who believe in the Bible as the words of God, they should know that God’s words should never contradicts itself.
Also, the truth cannot be manipulated to serve ones purpose, and cannot be a puzzle which we can play with to come to a result that we wish it to be, then I can say that those who ply this triks are just fooling themselves only.
In my next post I will bring some of barkers answers, and I will analize them.
Name:sam •
Date: 01/31/11 1:25
A: Can we trust the Bible ?
Dan Barker (born June 25, 1949) is a prominent American atheist activist who served as a Christian preacher and musician for 19 years but left Christianity in 1984.
Barker received a degree in Religion from Azusa Pacific University and was ordained to the ministry by the Standard Community Church, California, in 1975.
his popular children's Christian musicals, "Mary Had a Little Lamb" (1977), and "His Fleece Was White as Snow" (1978).both published and performed in many countries.
Barker has composed over 200 songs that have been published or recorded.
In 1984 he announced to his friends that he was an atheist.
HIS BOOKS:
- Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist.
- Godless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America's Leading Atheists .
HIS WORDS:
- "The longer I have been an atheist, the more amazed I am that I ever believed Christian notions."
His story , and the many others prove that the Bible cannot be trusted.
Dr. Bart Ehrman - A Christian professor ................became Agnostic
Dan Baker - A Christian preacher ...........................became Atheist
Dr. Jerald Dirks - A Christian REV. ........................accepted Islam
Yusuf Estes - A Christian preacher ..........................accepted Islam
Dr. Maurice Bucaille - A Christian professor/surgeon .....accepted Islam
Four of the five names above, are very well educated , and they teach and preach the Christian faith for many years exactly as been taught by their churches and their universities, then after all these years suddenly they open their mind and use the LOGIC, THE REASONING, AND THE COMMON SENSE to find out that they been led wrong, and they came to choose different way of beliefs.
THEIR MAIN REASON for them to leave their religion is ONE:
THEY COULD NOT TRUST THE BIBLE WHILE IT IS FULL OF CONTRADICTIONS AND ERRORS.
ONE REASON FOR THEM TO DROP OUT THEIR FAITH, BUT DIFFERENT REASON IN CHOOSING ANOTHER BELIEF.
As for Dr. Ehrman, he chooses to become AGNOSTIC. And he claims that he had no knowledge about the Quran or the Islamic beliefs.
As for Dr. Baker, he chooses to become an ATHEIST. And he claims that he had no knowledge about the Quran or Islamic faith.
{Both Ehrman and Baker , chooses NOT to believe in God, after many years of TOTAL believe in God, and they did not take their time to think clearly to find the truth, but they jumped the wagon and followed something which cannot be proven by logic or science !!!, and now they try their best to teach and preach their new THEORY of belief , “THE ATHEIST”!!!.
FROM A BIBLE THEY DO NOT TRUST , TO A THEORY CANNOT BE TRUSTED TO BE A PERFECT AND WITHOUT ANY DOUBT !!!.
As for Dr. Jerald Dirks, he did not jump the wagon, but spend years in search and research, and he comes to know about the religion of Islam, he did not accept it blindly, but he read their book, the Quran in English translation, and then he learn the Arabic language to make that he understand it well, and when he found it logically accepted and there are no contradiction or errors in it, beside it holds many true scientific information, besides, and the Teaching are the same teachings of the Christian and Jews prophets, and the Muslims do believe in the same prophets, then he came to accept Islam as his new faith.
As for Dr. Maurice Bucaille, his story of changing from one faith to another is something extra-ordinaire , So I will bring it in a new post.
