Name:luke64 •
Title: Did Jesus ever say In the Bible "I am God" •
Date posted: 01/31/08 22:54
Q: You will not find a Single Clear-cut Verse in the whole Bible Where Jesus said "I am god or Worship me"
God has a lot of Sons and Children in the bible So Jesus saying "My father" means nothing.
-Ask yourself this, Belive the Bible not the Church.
Check this:
http://peacetv.in/
Sky channel 823
WorldTV Channel 65
Ahmen Deedat
Dr. Zakir Naik
Google and yahoo it.
Name:Anchorite •
Date: 02/02/08 2:57
A: You're right. "God" is marketing.
Name:vvk •
Date: 02/02/08 7:48
A: But all most all Christian belive him ,is a God. I'm non Christian, but I love Jesus. With me they misundertood Jesus. and some people might making profif from his dead.
Name:strobe33333 •
Date: 02/24/08 20:15
A: You're correct Jesus never directly declares himself AS God the Father. He declares himself the Light and the Truth, the son of God. As a Christian, I believe that Jesus is a Divine Being and a Part of God. He is the intercessor of man to God the Father. As God is perfection and His presence too powerful for our mortality to interface, Jesus defeated death to allow us direct communication to God the Father. Prayer is the channel by which we can communicate with God the Father Through Jesus. The Holy Spirit, the 3rd component of the Divine Trinity is the medium through which our prayer/communication is hosted. Through the Holy Spirit, we have access to the power of God. The Holy Spirit was allowed to dwell within man as a direct effect of Jesus' sacrifice.
So to answer your question, Jesus is a Part of God and through his sacrifice we are also a part of God. Through our belief and through His will, we are enabled the power of God.
Do people seek to make money off of this? Well we're on a website that's doing just that. Does that cheapen Christ or his followers, from my very pre-disposed point of view.. no. Really interested? Pick up a Bible and read it for yourself... Make up your own mind.
Name:sam •
Date: 02/26/08 22:21
A: Hi strobe3x4,
You said,
A- "I believe that Jesus is a Divine Being and a Part of God. "
--- Most Christians believe that Jesus is God!!! , others, now started to believe that Jesus is only the son of God, SO,Can you pleae tell me which part of God Jesus is?, and where Jesus stand in the rank of the many sons that God mentioned in the Bible?. Adam is the first son of God {Luke 3:28}.
Then, what about God's daughters ?, since you believe that Mary is the mother of God, SO, if God has a MOTHER, and A SON (many sons) then there should be a daughter for Him too, so the at His family completed, like the Romans and the Greeks and the Hindu etc., god's families.
--- Jesus neve declared Himself as God, as you mentioned, but at the same time you believe that His mother Mary is the mother of God !!! {where is that writtenin the Gospel ?}, and never declared Himself as part of God {can you tell where in the Gospels Jesus mentioned Himsel as part of God...Please bring the facts}.
Let us bring JESUS WORDS which tells us all the truth about himself and His mother and His brothers and sisters.
J- 5:30 "I CAN DO NOTHING ON MY OWN INITIATIVE"..."THE WORD WHICH YOU HEAR IS NOT MINE, but the Father's {HIS GOD'S WORD} who sent me."
-If Jesus is God or part of God or the son of God , then for sure He does what He want and speaks His own word.
J- 13:16 TRULLY, TRULLY, {He say it twice , so you do not have a doubt about what He says} I SAY TO YOU {this message to all His followers to know who is He} A SLAVE IS NOT GREATER THAN HIS MASTER, {He is telling everyone that the Master is greater than the slave}, NOR IS ONE WHO IS SENT {Jesus} GREATER THAN THE ONE {GOD} WHO SENT HIM.
---Here Jesus compare Himself to a slave so people knows can understand the difference between Him and God who sent Him.
The Romans created the trinity, and that came after 380 years from Jesus death and it came after 50+ years of deabating and negotiation, and it is the idea of the Emperor Constantene who worshipped the sun.
Jesus was known to His people in the holy land as the Messiah and the coming prophet.
J- 4:44 FOR JESUS HIMSELF TESTIFIED THAT A PROPHET HAS NO HONOR IN HIS OWN COUNTRY.
-----Jesus was talking about Himself as a prophet. He was rejected by many even those the closest to Him.
Mk- 6:3/4 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon?. Are not His sisters her with us? AND THEY TOOK OFFENSE AT HIM.
JESUS SAID TO THEM, "A PROPHET {here Jesus talking about Himself and about Moses or Abraham} IS NOT WITHOUT HONOR EXCEPT IN HIS HOMETOWN {Jesus hometown} AND AMONG HIS OWN RELATIVES { Jesus relatives} AND IN HIS OWN HOSEHOLD {Jesus Mother and brothers & sisters}.
----All that proves that Jesus is a prophet , and He was sent by God as a messenger.
Jesus said,
"WHEN YOU LIFT UP THE SON OF MAN, THEN YOU WILL KNOW THAT I AM HE."
"NO ONE IS GOOD EXCEPT GOD ALONE"
"THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD"
" YOU CALL ME TEACHER AND LORD; AND YOU ARE RIGHT, FOR SO I AM."
Those are the words of Jesus and you do not believe Him , but you believe in the words of Paul and the Romans and the churches !!!.
Jesus said, " NEGLECTING THE COMMANDMENT OF GOD, YOU HOLD TO THE TRADITION OF MEN {Paul, the Emperors, the Bishops etc.}....... YOU ARE EXPERTS AT SETTING ASIDE THE COMMANDMENT* OF GOD IN ORDER TO KEEP YOUR TRADITION."
* The first commandment : "YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER gods BEFORE ME."
--- That means: you cannot make God of three persons or devide Him to three parts, WHEN Jesus said, "THE ONE AND ONLY GOD", which Jesus Himself only pray to Him. "AND HE {JESUS} SPENT THE WHOLE NIGHT IN PRAYER TO GOD"
And while you pray to Jesus and His mother Mary as the mother of God, Jesus show you who is His mother:
MK-3:32/33 A crowd was sitting around Him, and they said to Him "behold, youe mother and your brothers are outside looking for You.
Answering them, He said,
"WHO ARE MY MOTHER AND MY BROTHERS !!!! ,
FOR WHO DOES THE WILL OF GOD,
he is my brother and sister AND MOTHER."
-----If you remember before that His mother and brothers and sisters TOOK OFFENSE AT HIM, THAT SHOWS US THAT THOSE WHO DOES THE WILL OF GOD {NOT HIS WILL} THOSE ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN BE ACCEPTED BY hIM AS MOTHER, BROTHERS AND SISTERS.
B- "He is the intercessor of man to God the Father"
---- He is just a messenger from God, and His first message is to believe in GOD, THE ONE AND ONLY GOD, and the second message is to follow god's commandments, and the third is to spread the message of peace and love {love your neighbor} all around the world.
I don't think that his follower carried on His messages, but as the history of the churches tells us, that they burned many Gospels and killed & burned the people who read them, and from the time when the Romans churches started in Europe until this day there were millions of people from christians and Jews and Muslim and Indian and African etc. killed by the christians and under the banner of the cross, and under the name of Jesus.
I do not think that God or Jesus or Moses will accept that.
Do you accept the killing of people if they are not following your church?
God bless you.
Name:ForumAgainstum •
Date: 03/06/08 22:25
A: It is a two person team. Back home, Jesus is God, while God is Jesus here on earth. It is a little bit confusing. Reality is composed of positives and negatives. They relate to each other. In the middle of it all is this reality that you are familiar with. It is biased in the positive direction, thus two powers are required to create such a positive bias. Both support the positive side.
Check http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode2.htm and http://www.outersecrets.com/r-eal/biblecode_shroud_turin.ht-m- to see the identity of both. Don't forget that truth sits beyond the limits of a belief, since a belief does not connect you directly to a truth. Therefore, if a belief tells you that what is revealed at the above web site pages is nothing but trash, then note that this is simply because you are happy with beliefs and disbelief, thus you are happy with less than truth.
Name:Marco •
Date: 03/22/08 18:55
A: Jesus didn't say that he is God, he only said, that he is son of God. I read the Bible several time, but didin't find, that he said that.
Name:sam •
Date: 03/26/08 0:27
A: Hi, Marco,
You said :
1- "Jesus didn't say that he is God,"
----- Two Billion Christian believes that Jesus is the son of God, and a part of God, and a God too. They read the Bible too, and they knew very well the history of how and when the trinity formula was developed in Rome after 380 years from Jesus time, and the story of the son of God when preached for the first time by Paul in Damascus after Jesus death. I do not think that they care much about what Jesus said.
So, it is not how many time you read the Bible or the Gospels that matter, BUT, what matter most is the understanding of Moses and Jesus words and be able to separate them from the words of the others who put their words and their stories in the bible and claim them as the words of God. What you and the others believe, is what came from other people and not from Jesus, and that is wrong. It is clear that only Moses [commandments], and Jesus words came from God. Jesus said:
J-14:24 ...AND THE WORD WHICH YOU HEAR IS NOT MINE, BUT THE FATHER'S WHO SENT ME.
Adding to those words, THAT THEY MAY KNOW YOU THE ONLY TRUE GOD......WHEN YOU LIFT UP THE SON OF MAN, THEN YOU WILL KNOW THAT I AM HE.
Jesus is the son of man BY HIS WORDS and not the son of God or a part of God.
And what prove that is His words too, "I CAN DO NOTHING ON MY OWN INITIATIVE....BUT THE WILL OF HIM WHO SENT ME".
{Son of God , should have the power of God, or at the least He can do something by himself, and Jesus cannot do anything on His own}
2- he only said, that he is son of God.
----- You should know these facts:
A- "The first Gospel was not written until the early 70's [Mark gospel] , and Mark never met with Jesus and never heard the words of those who followed Him , but he is a student to Paul and followed Paul's teachings, which himself never met with Jesus.
B- "Both Matthew, who wrote between 80-85, and Luke, who wrote between 88-92, had Mark to guide their compositions. BOTH CHANGED, HEIGHTENED AND EXPANDED * Mark. It is fascinating to lift those changes into consciousness and to ask what was it that motivated Matthew and Luke to transform Mark's narrative. Did they have new sources of information? HAD THE STORY GROWN OVER THE YEARS IN THE RETELLING? " {Those words were coted from the books of the Bishop John S. Spong}
* Is that means that the Gospels writings [not the words of Jesus] are no more than a fabricated stories grown over the years by people who never met Jesus, and created lies and switshed the truth, to create from Jesus the prophet a lot of other things. That came from Paul's policies:
Romans 3:8 LET US DO EVIL THAT GOOD MAY COME.
1Cor 9:20-23 ...TO THE JEWS I BECAME AS A JEW {we should not forget that he is a Jew}...TO THOSE WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW, AS UNDER THE LAW....TO THOSE WHO ARE WITHOUT LAW, AS WITHOUT LAW....I HAVE BECOME ALL THINGS TO ALL MEN. !!!!
{can anyone trust a man with many faces}
Gal 1:20 ...I ASSURE YOU BEFORE GOD I AM NOT LYING.
Rom 9:1 .... I AM TELLING THE TRUTH IN CHRIST, I AM NOT LYING.
{an honest man, and a man who been trusted, has no need to swear that he is not lying, only liars do that to hide their lies}
2Cor 11:8 I ROBBED OTHER CHURCHES .......TO SERVE YOU.
{ an honest man will never robb. To robb to serve the others is a double crime and a sin.
YOU SHALL NOT STEAL , and that makes Paul a sinner.
And to serve the others by robbing the church to serve them is a sort of BRIBERY and that is done only by whom we call today crooks.
Paul never believed in God as Jesus believed, but he believed in gods as the gods of the Greeks and the Romans, otherwise he will never said this:
1 Cor 6:2/3 or do you not know the THE SAINTS WILL JUDGE THE WORLD.
DO YOU KNOW THAT WE [WE *] WILL JUDGE THE ANGELS?.
* WE !!! . That is Paul and the thousands of saints which the churches created from popes and bishops, etc., THEY ARE GOING TO JUDGE the world and even GOD'S ANGELS !!!.
Dear Marco, do you know that the angels are not like us the human, and they do not live on earth, and they are in the presence of God, and they are sent to earth only to deliver God messages to those whom God wish to reveal HIS words.
Paul and his saints cannot and will not judge God's angels, but God can and will judge Paul and his saints and He can send them to hell.
Paul personal letters to his friends in other churches became a part of the holy book !!!!, and people accepted them as the words of God !!!.
1 Cor 9:23 I DO ALL THING for the sake of the Gospel, SO I MAY BECOME A FOLLOW PARTAKER OF IT.
"Paul writing between the years 50 and 64 or some 20 to 34 years after the earthly life of Jesus came to an end."
"The first Gospel was not written until the early 70's [Mark gospel]"
The question here is , "which Gospel Paul was mentioning when he said "for the sake of the Gospel ?", because the gospels of Mark , Luke, Matthew and John were not yet written?. Do you think that he is mentioning the real ones , and the one the churches destroyed and burned?, and the one which really tells that Jesus is a prophet?, because Jesus was known to His followers and to the 12 Apostles as a prophet and not the son of God or God. that is a fact.
C- Reading the words of the bishop J.S.Spong will show you the truth, he wrote:
"Mark then concludes his Gospel with a picture of these women fleeing in fear, saying nothing to anyone (16:1-8). SO ABRUPT WAS THIS ENDING THAT PEOPLE BEGAN TO WRIT NEW ENDINGS to what they thought was Mark's incomplete story. Two of those endings are actually reproduced in the King James Version of the Bible as verses 9-20. But thankfully, these LATER CREATIONS have been REMOVED from the text of Mark in recent Bibles and placed into footnotes. The sure fact of New Testament scholarship is that Mark's Gospel ended without the Risen Christ ever being seen by anyone. "
LUKE, MATTHEW AND JOHN wrote differnt stories, each one used his own imagination, and the people believed that those stories are true !.
CREATIONS ADDED ...REMOVED. HOW CAN THE DO THOSE THINGS TO A BOOK WHICH THEY CALL HOLY, AND THE WORDS OF GOD?.
In regard to the ANGELS, not much written about them beside apearing to people, but in another holy book "THE QURAN" WHERE MENTIONED MANY TIMES AS WHO THEY ARE, here some:
Q- 14:2 HE sends down the angels, with the inspiration [revelation] of HIS command, upon whom HE wills of HIS servants, [telling them], "warn that there is no Deity excep ME; so fear ME."
{The first commandment --- You sahll heve no other gods before ME}
Q- 15:8 WE do not send down the Angels except with truth; and they [the disbelievers] would not then be reprieved.
Q- 16:28 The ones whom the Angels take in death while wronging themselves, and who then offer submission, saying, "we were not doing any evil" But , yes! indeed, God is knowing of what you used to do.
Q- 3:42 And mention when the ANGELS said, O MARY, indeed God has chosen you and purified you and CHOSEN YOU SBPVE THE WOMEN OF THE WORLDS.
{Here God mention THE WORLDS, and that means that God has many other world like ours,, and MARY was the chosen one above all the women on earth and any other of HIS world like the earth.}
3:45 [And mention] when the ANGELS said, " O MARY , indeed God gives you good tidings of a word from HIM, whose name will be THE MESSIAH, JESUS, THE SON OF MARY , DISTINGUISHED IN THIS WORLD AND THE HEREAFTER AND AMONG THOSE BROUGHT NEAR [TO ME].
You do your own search , if you are looking for the truth.
God bless you.
Name:Brent Pearson •
Date: 03/26/08 21:20
A: Yes, in a sense. If you were to ask me if I am the world champion, and I told you I hold the trophy. It could only be assumed that I was.
Jesus did something like this several times. When one of his servents called him good master. His reply was "Why do you call me good, none is good but God" To me he was making the person answer the personal question "Am I your God?" Doubting Thomas also called him My Lord and My God.
Also in John 8 58 he told the Jews that he was before Abraham and Abraham rejoiced at his day. They said How can you know Abraham? He said before Abraham was, I AM" A clear and obvious reference to not only God Almighty in Genesis but also "the great I AM" that Moses met on the mountain in Exodus 3:6. They were so insulted at his claim of God hood that they picked up stones to stone him. His remarks there were pretty clearly directed that he is the great I AM, none other then God Almighty which appeared to Abraham.
Name:sam •
Date: 03/28/08 0:44
A: Hi, Brent Pearson ,
You quoted "I AM" from verse 8:58 from the Gospel of John.
In my answer I will be quoting from the works of the retired Bishop John S. Spong [ "..using JSS"]. Those are information came from analyzing the gospels by someone who been reading and preaching the holy books almost all his life. I wrote similar analysis in the last five years in this forums and the N.Geographic forums, even before reading the bishop works , of:
--- The essay below was published April 23, 2003.
--- The essay below was published on Februrary 15, 2006
"Paul, for example, writing between the years 50 and 64 or some 20 to 34 years after the earthly life of Jesus came to an end."
"Both Matthew, who wrote between 80-85, and Luke, who wrote between 88-92, had Mark to guide their compositions.
Both CHANGED, HEIGHTENED AND EXPANDED Mark."
" It is fascinating to lift those changes into consciousness and to ask what was it that motivated Matthew and Luke to transform Mark's narrative. ???"
"Did they have new sources of information? ??"
"HAD THE STORY GROWN OVER THE YEARS IN THE RETELLING ???"
"In John, the Fourth Gospel (95-100), the physicality of the Resurrection is even more enhanced !!!"
"MOST CHRISTIANS SEEM TO ASSUME THAT THE DETAILS OF THEIR FAITH SYSTEM DROPPED OUT OF HEAVEN IN A FULLY DEVELOPED FOR.
NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH.
The creeds began as baptismal formulas in the 3rd century and did not receive the shape we now recognize until the 4th century. Doctrines like the Trinity and Incarnation were still being formed in the 5th century. "
"HAD THE STORY GROWN OVER THE YEARS IN THE RETELLING ???"
"Moving closer to the life of Jesus, scholars now suggest that MIRACLES WERE ADDED TO THE JESUS STORY only in the 7th and 8th decades of the Christian era. The Virgin birth and the suggestion that resurrection meant physical resuscitation are products of the 9th decade, and the account of Jesus' ascension enters the tradition only in the 10th decade"
" The conclusion of the scholars of the Jesus Seminar, for example, was that only 16% OF THE SAYINGS ATTRIBUTED TO JESUS IN THE GOSPELS ARE ACTUALLY AUTHENTIC, ACCURATE PORTRAYALS OF WHAT JESUS REALLY SAID. The other 84% are words read into the Jesus of history by an interpreting community during the oral period. Much of what the gospels call the acts of Jesus fall into a similar statistical spread. "
"At the very least, this study begins to give us a glimpse of WHO JESUS WAS BEFORE THE GOSPELS WERE WRITTEN,
CREED FORMED,
OR DOCTRINES DEVELOPED.
If we are willing to journey to this place with openness,
I THINK WE CAN BE ASSURED THAT JESUS WILL LOOK VERY DIFFERENT." JSS.
{YOU SHOULD READ THE BISHOP WORKS}
GROWN OVER ...ADDED....DEVELOPED...CHANGED, HEIGHTENED AND EXPANDED........ and I will add to the long list "FORGERY"
As an example:
THE SON OF MAN, [ John- 9:35] is written in my book [new testament], which says "the words of Scripture as originally penned in the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek"
THE SON OF GOD, [John- 9:35] is written in King James Bible [catholic online].
Man became God by a stroke of pen, it is easy to change Jesus the Son of man to Jesus the Son of God, by some who never met Jesus or heard His voice !!!.
The Bishop JSS gave an example too:
"Mark then concludes his Gospel with a picture of these women fleeing in fear, saying nothing to anyone (16:1-8). So abrupt was this ending that PEOPLE BEGAN TO WRITE NEW ENDINGS [!!!???] to what they thought was Mark's incomplete story. Two of those endings are actually REPRODUCED in the King James Version of the Bible as verses 9-20. But thankfully, these later creations have been REMOVED from the text of Mark in recent Bibles and placed into footnotes. The sure fact of New Testament scholarship is that Mark's Gospel ended without the Risen Christ ever being seen by anyone. "
REPRODUCED ..... to, and ...REMOVED ....from the Bible !!!, the holy book !!!. CAN THEY DO THAT? , WHILE THEY CLAIM THAT THE BOOK IS THE WORDS OF GOD?.
Dear friend, Jesus said, "before Abraham was born, I am " and He could not finish what He want to say, because the story came to tell us in the verse J-8:59, "..they picked up stones to throw at Him" {He was afraid, so}, "Jesus hid Himself and went out {run away} of the temple."
Before Abraham there were many, many others, all came before Him and before Jesus, and they are all the descendent of ADAM and EVE the father and the mother of all the humans.
In the gospel , L-3:38 "Adam, the son of God"....L-3:23 "Jesus...as was supposed , the son of Joseph..."
Jesus is the son of Mary....Jesus had brothers and sisters, uncles and aunts, etc., and they all knew who He is [more than John, Matthew and Mark] , and when they took offence at Him, He said to them, " A PROPHET [mentioning Himself and not others] IS NOT WITHOUT HONOR EXCPT IN HIS HOMETOWN AND AMONG HIS OWN RELATIVES [uncles, aunts etc.]
AND IN hIS OWN HOUSEHOLD [mother, brothers and sister, and maby wife too, all those who are Jesus household.]
God bless you.
Name:magdolene •
Date: 05/20/08 16:23
A: Jesus is one of god's messangers to tell his messages to people. Each messanger and prophet has his unique life, story, events, and miracles
Jesus's miracles, or one of them was being a son with no "biological" father also he spoke in the first month of his life to prove his mother's innocence
Also, do many prophets have miracles though
God has the unlimited power that he made all this universe,and each day he amazes us in everything around, then it is so logic that he creates Jesus with a way he knows
When we want to argue or debate about some superpower things god did, first we have to know easier things to our minds until we reach the good limit of knowledge that allows us to ask greater levels of questions
Name:Sassy •
Date: 05/23/08 3:24
A: "For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."
Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?"
St.John 10:33-34
Jesus said "Where there are three gods, they are gods. Where there are two or one, I am with him."
Gospel of Thomas, 30
