Name:andersbranderud •
Title: Did Paul follow the Ribi Yehoshua from Nazareths teachings? •
Date posted: 06/16/08 14:26
Q: My opinion is that Paul and pro-Torah Ribi Yehoshua didn’t have the same religions.
Who was the historical Ribi Yehoshua from Nazareth? This has been hidden for Christians for centuries, but now it’s possible for Christians to read the un-redacted teachings of the historical Ribi Yehoshua. It is exciting times that we are living in!
As the earliest church historians, most eminent modern university historians, our web site (see further down in this post) and our Khavruta (Distance Learning) texts confirm, the original teachings of Ribi Yәhoshua were not only accepted by most of the Pharisaic Jewish community, he had hoards of Jewish students. Contrary to popular Christian assumptions, the standards of the Jewish community didn't cause the "break." Rather, as Oxford historian-scholar James Parkes indisputedly demonstrates in his book, The Conflict of the Church and the Synagogue, it was the teachings that were perverted between the first and fourth centuries C.E. The first century teachings of Ribi Yәhoshua and his original Netzarim were acceptable in the Jewish community. Fourth century Christianity was the polar opposite to the original first century Pharisaic Torah teachings of Ribi Yәhoshua and his original Netzarim followers. Consequently, the Roman perversion of those teachings was never in the Jewish community at all! Ribi Yәhoshua's authentic teachings were never rejected by the Jews! And the perversion of those teachings by the Roman pagans, Christianity, was never in the Jewish community in the first place. There was no transition between the two! (source: netzarim.co.il)
If you want to learn about the Historical Ribi Yehoshua, whom Orthodox Jews can live with (witness the Netzarim Jews in Raanana, Israel, members in good standing in an Orthodox synagogue), you must start with books like How Jesus Became Christian by Prof. Barrie Wilson (most bookstores) and Who Are The Netzarim? (publ. www.schuellerhouse.com) by Israeli Orthodox Jew, Paqid Yirmeyahu Ben-David.
From Anders Brandrerud
Follower of Ribi Yehoshua – Messias – in Orthodox Judaism.
http://www.netzarim.co.il – start with the link “Christians” (at our first page)
Name:Judith •
Date: 06/16/08 17:31
A: Paul stated that his Teacher was Gamalel . That well known teacher told his students or followers to leave the Christians alone and gave them good advise. He said "If it is not of God it will go away , if you ignore it. If it is of God , you won't be able to stop it"
Paul did not leave Christians alone and was more then willing to have them killed. So, in my opinion, he didn't follow Jesus or know him and He showed no respect for his own Teacher as well
Name:Panluna •
Date: 06/16/08 18:50
A: Paul never met Jesus.Paul had recieved his vision after the crucifixion .
Name:sam •
Date: 06/17/08 17:15
A: Hi Panluna, Judith,
"Paul never met Jesus.Paul had recieved his vision after the crucifixion . "
"So, in my opinion, he [Paul] didn't follow Jesus or know him ..."
TRUE, Many others wrote about Jesus and they never met Him, and their work became a part of the Gospels and the holy Bible as for the personal letter of Paul.
Luke the saint : "Luke, the writer of the Gospel and the Acts of the Apostles, has been identified with St. Paul's ....So Luke first joined Paul's company at Troas at about the year 51 ....And after everyone else deserts Paul in his final imprisonment and sufferings, it is Luke who remains with Paul to the end: "Only Luke is with me" (2 Timothy 4:11). ...Luke's INSPIRATION AND INFORMATION FOR HIS GOSPEL AND ACTS CAME FROM HIS CLOSE ASSOCIATION WITH PAUL and his companions ."
"Luke's unique perspective on Jesus can be seen in the six miracles and eighteen parables not found in the other gospels.!!!!"
That means , what Luke's wrote came from Paul and his companions and not direct from Jesus and His people, and since Paul cannot be trusted as we will see in the examples below from his own writing , then 'LUKE'S GOSPEL CANNOT BE TRUSTED TO BE RELIABLE' , as Bishop John S. Spong wrote.
Sassy wrote in another post, " Whoever does not accept his cross [bear up under condemnation] and so become my follower, cannot be one of my students. " {That came from her book}
In my book , NASB:
Luke 14:27 Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
In the verse before L-14:26
Luke 14:26 If anyone comes to Me, and does not HATE his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, YES, and even his own life, HE CANNOT BE MY DISCIPLE.
Question: Did Jesus gave this message of HATE ?, and does the disciples heart should be filled with hate to be accepted ?.
From Jesus words:
M- 5:43 LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR......
5:44 LOVE YOUR ENEMIES....
19:19 HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER....
J-13:34/35 A NEW COMMANDMENT I GIVE TO YOU, THAT YOU LOVE ONE ANOTHER, BY THIS ALL MEN WILL KNOW THAT YOU ARE MY DISCIPLES..
The above verses shows that JESUS TEACH US LOVE.
Compare Luke 14:26 {HATE} to John 13:34/35 {LOVE} both about Jesus disciples.
This is just one example to the contradiction in the Gospels.
All the gospels were written after many years from Jesus death, according to what people heard from another people , and then came Matthew, Mark, Luke and John who never spoke to Jesus or met with Him , to write stories about Jesus, some of them true others are made up.
John 21:24 This is the disciple who is testifying to these things and wrote these things, and we know that his testimony is true.
{What John wrote came from the others writings, who are they?, unknown people to be trusted even if what they wrote untrue? !!!}
John 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did !!! { He knows about the other things, otherwise he should not mention them, are they not important ? while belong to Jesus , and why he did not write about them [he is lying] !!!} which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written. {THAT IS A BIG LIE}
Next; Paul's vision & constantine vision.
God bless you all.
The story of HATE which Luke wrote is not true. Jesus never teaches HATE but HE ALWAYS TEACH LOVE.
Name:Judith •
Date: 06/17/08 17:24
A: Hello Anders
I am still in the process of reading "The Jesus Dynasty" It often states that Much of the Apostles writing comes from Mark. Only I do know the NT pretty well, or did. I had always wondered why or how Paul knew what went on at the so called last supper if he was not there, and thought he was the one who moved Judas. As one book says "Satan Jumped into Judas" that is a shomanistic act and as far as I can tell also falls under Kabbalistic Mystasim which I do believe many knew how to use. Paul stated him self he was among the very best (not much of a bragger was he?) I think Judas was moved and it may indicate it in the OT. In Zech. Chaper 11, If I remember right. That is where one was lied to by priests or a priest and tossed those coins back at the Priests.
Name:Judith •
Date: 06/17/08 17:37
A: I forgot to add that in the "Lost Books of Eden" there it states that Paul is good friends with Annas, and Annas was good friends with Cesar.
Name:Sassy •
Date: 06/17/08 20:03
A: Sassy wrote in another post, " Whoever does not accept his cross [bear up under condemnation] and so become my follower, cannot be one of my students. " {That came from her book}
No that didn't come from "my" book per se - it's from the Gospel of Q - Quelle/source - some of our earliest sayings of Jesus.
Name:sam •
Date: 06/18/08 0:26
A: Hi Sassy,
You said :
"No that didn't come from "my" book per se - it's from the Gospel of Q - Quelle/source - some of our earliest sayings of Jesus. "
--- It does not matter in which [Quelle]BOOK or gospel it was written. IT WAS WRITTEN, and you did put Jesus name under the verse when you quoted it, and that mean you did use it and accepted as true.
All the sayings came early in time, around 1900 years ago. but do you believe blindly in what was written in the gospels? without using the logic and the common sense to separate the true from the false.
Do you believe that Jesus died on the cross, while He has all the power, from raising the dead, to venishing to disfiqure Himself in different ways?. And you claim that He is the son of God, and even a part of God, and God?!!!.
Did God, who saved all the prophets before him let bunch of Jews and Romans to humiliate His messenger?
Retired Bishop John S. Spong wrote:
" GOD WHO CAN BE KILLED OUGHT TO BE KILLED."
"A GOD OR A FAITH SYSTEM THAT HAS TO BE DEFENDED DAILY IS FINALLY NO GOD OR FAITH SYSTEM AT ALL."
" THE ESSENCE OF CHRIST WAS CONFUSED WITH THE FORM IN WHICH THAT ESSENCE WAS COMMUNICATED." {that means the people were confused by what came to them from the gospels and the letters and the acts and the trinity etc. all helped to change the essence of christ, and the prophet, the messenger, the price of peace and love, changed to become son of God and God.
For some Jesus is God, for others He is third part , and He is only son of God for many today ?!!!.
God bless you.
.
Name:Sassy •
Date: 06/18/08 1:58
A: I don't believe a lot of what you said Sam.
Name:Sassy •
Date: 06/18/08 2:02
A: "And you claim that He is the son of God, and even a part of God, and God?!!!."
I never claimed this. Where do I do that? Besides, the title Son of God in antiquity, in Jesus' day, was a title used for anyone claiming kingship. Jesus wasn't the only one to use this title, nor was he the only messiah around.
Though I do believe that we are all part of God/dess, not that we are gods and goddesses per se. I don't believe in looking for God/dess somewhere "out there". That's the all male god patriarchal attitude.
