Name:starman2fly •
Title: If it wasn't for Simcha •
Date posted: 03/11/07 5:10
Q: If it wasn't for Simcha, I , and most of you I believe, would never have heard of this tomb. I have no recollection of the BBC story over ten years ago. And if I wasn't checking the CNN site two weeks ago I might have missed this again. Many if not most did. One day in the news is basically all it got. What may be by far the most significant archeological find of all time. Yes, work needs to be done as Simcha stated. But it's obvious to me that further work should be done and this should not be dismissed out of hand. Common names you say. Yes and maybe no. But... I task all ye naysayers. Go to the document(s) from the Israeli antiquities authority listing all first century tombs. Find other tombs even remotely close. And don't leave out ossuaries if they don't fit like say Sarah, mother of Jesus. Be honest. I have an open mind. Let's see what you come up with. Nothing even close I bet. And as far as the science goes let me say this. I do cancer research at Memorial Sloan-Kettering in New York and we and others will routinely get out a paper, even a fast communication, to present a new finding, a fusion gene say, that stands out in a cancer cell above the normal background even if little solid evidence exists as to its real importance in the malignancy. It's a call for further work. And the ones that really stand out are usually truly significant. Well from what I've seen this tomb really stands out. Show me it doesn't, don't just say so. Personally Simcha seems genuine to me and I really like the little touches, the James ossuary story (not at all proven a hoax) and the Chevron and circle. Thank you Simcha and others involved for this great revelation.
Name:samepstein •
Date: 03/11/07 15:45
A: Simcha seemed genuine to me as well. He seemed humbled when he went inside the tomb. He know it could possibly be holy ground. He didn't seem like someone who wanted to put an end to Christianity.
Name:Delyn •
Date: 03/12/07 16:54
A: No offense to Simcha, but why did he have to go into the tomb without the permission of the IAA. He's not an archaelogist? He should have hired an archaelogist to seek entry and then to proceed with the standards of science. His presence could have contaminated the find. Perhaps I missed that in the documentary, but since they're not replaying the show it is hard to remember all of the details.
Name:samepstein •
Date: 03/12/07 17:06
A: I think he didn't get permission b/c the parents who lived in the apartment complex closed the tomb in fear their children would be harmed. The IAA didn't. In the end though it came back to bite him b/c they re-sealed the tomb (the IAA, not the parents). It's a shame. I would love to find out what else may be in there.
Name:QuebecIndieAnna •
Date: 01/05/08 14:56
A: Hi Guys,
I arrived in June of 1980 in Jerusalem.
I was travelling with two exegetes.
One an Old Testament exegete.
The other a New Testament exegete.
My OT prof said : " The names were common. The tomb is not significant. Mr. Jacobovici is on the mark when he says that scholars just did not want to look at the evidence in 1980. Now, with the strides science has made, we can go further. ...A shame that they didn't think to keep the bones though.
The IAA might have thought to keep the bones....
I can't imagine why the IAA did not decide to keep the bones...
Quebec Indie Anna
Name:Panluna •
Date: 01/05/08 17:02
A: Hindsight leads to 20/20 vision. I felt that the whole area with the ancient tombs as a burial site should have been designated as a world heritage site...but something very important was over-looked when progress bulldozed over history.
Name:QuebecIndieAnna •
Date: 01/06/08 3:31
A: Hi Panluna
20/20 hindsight indeed...
I have been away from text analysis for years. I taped a show on CNN that guested Sirs Cameron and Jacobovici and only got around to viewing the show about a month ago. So, I have come back to an old interest of ancient lit analysis.
I was very rusty.
Reading some pages on James Tabor's site (Jesus Dynasty) has helped me remember a lot from my days of scripture study, long ago.
I was pleased to learn about an upcoming conference in Jerusalem in a few days, on the tomb, by a gathering of scholars. I can hardly wait to read some of the papers.
Indie
Name:Anchorite •
Date: 02/02/08 2:26
A: But the tomb is harmful. Serves the enemies of Jesus by syphoning from the proper discourse. Please read St Thomas. Ask yourself how much you want to change. Dilly dallying serves Lucifer.
Name:Yakblather •
Date: 02/13/08 23:46
A: I heartily concur with starman2fly. And what the heck did they do with the bones?
Name:Xcavate •
Date: 02/15/08 17:46
A: Anchorite,
don't take this as an attack on you, but how can the tomb be harmful? The proper discourse as Jesus taught was to "seek the truth" and to love one another. If Jesus bones were left here on earth that wouldn't change the way I feel about him! BTW Simcha is my hero :) at least keep an open mind in other words just dont prejudge this untill we have all the facts. Even with that, there will probably never be definative proof . so this debate is liable to drag on through the centuries,or at least until december 21, 2012 LOL
Name:sojourner •
Date: 05/10/08 7:10
A: I saw the tail end of the movie on the history channel, followed by serious history-guys debunking it. The few moments I saw, however, were enough to deeply excite me, and I immediately bought the book. I had been following the "Historical Jesus" trail for nearly five years, and I feel that I finally have some closure. Also a new puzzle, to follow for many years more. I too want to thank Simcha and all involved for this exciting disclosure, and yes, we must recover the bones! This is too big to let the story die. I will continue to follow all developments avidly. Sojourner
Name:Judith •
Date: 05/26/08 22:36
A: He seemed more genuine than Saul Paul to me.
Book of Acts
See no evil
[7] And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
Hear no evil
[9] And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they HEARD NOT the voice of him that spake to me.
Now We all fall down
[13] At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which
journeyed with me.
[14] And when WE WERE ALL FALLEN to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul,
why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.(Goads)
Name:German •
Date: 06/18/08 8:16
A: I recently and rather coincidentally picked up the book in an airport bookstore and couldn't stop reading. I had not heard about the story when it was in the press and media apparently last year.
If the facts presented in this book hold (and I guess due to the verification process through some people and institutions who have to lose quite a reputation the danger would more about having contradicting facts left out rather than stated facts being misrepresented) I do not understand, why organizations like Unesco, the church(es), the Israelian state etc. don't do anything to uncover the truth by further research on the tomb and turning the IAA warehouse upside down to look for the bones.
I am a mathematician and I believe the arguments presented in the book are extremely strong. Even if you take a very skeptical stance, you should acknowledge that the facts are very unusual and should give everyone a strong reason to dig deeper. For god's sake, this may add to a better understanding of Christianity than 2000 years of theology.
It is always easier to be critical and skeptical, but none of the counter-arguments I have either seen in the book or read in blogs seem anyhow compelling.
Most seem to go along the lines of
"It can't be, because it would undermine Christian belief" - A clear circular reasoning and - frankly - I wouldn't think so.
"statistically insignificant" - that can't be serious in the combination even if the single names themselves were partly rather common.
...and so on.
The counter-arguments seem rather driven by purpose: a false defense of Christian belief, a self-defense by IAA clerks who don't want to be seen by history as the ones having overlooked potentially the biggest archaeological finding ever and the usual envy between different academics etc.
Anyway, I hope that team, which demonstrated an extreme determination, intelligence and openness, will continue to cut through this, come up with more and not just turn to the next "Discovery Channel" story.
Name:sam •
Date: 06/18/08 14:59
A: Hi German,
Your question : "why organizations like Unesco, the church(es), the Israelian state etc. don't do anything to uncover the truth "
1- UNESCO - the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization . {that means, it is a part of the United Nation}
The united nation : The 5 permanent members—the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Russia (formerly the Soviet Union), and China—have the most power. {POWER, that means , they run the show}
4 out of 5 are Christian nations, and those are also supported by all the other Christian country in the world, and the people who do not like the idea which might put their teaching in doubt, and all of them are strongly influenced by the Churches [catholic, protestant, orthodox etc.].
2- THE CHURES: all those will not support any work which might have a necative effects on the churches and their 2000 years old teaching.
3- THE ISRAELIAN: It comes to one word "POLITICS". Israel was created by the British and the French, and upported mainly by all the other Christian countries, among them the US which is the blood line of keeping that country rich [ 5+ billion Dollars every year +++], then the good relation with Vatican and with the evangelican and others .
I don't think they will, or dare to let anyone to dig for the truth, the truth which might had an effect on the churches and the Christians, and which might have an effect on the good relation with the west.
OUR WORLD IS RUN BY POWER. COUNTRIES POWER AND CHURCHES POWER AND THE TRUTH IS THE LAST IN THEIR MIND.
God bless you.
Name:Judith •
Date: 06/18/08 15:29
A: Sam
About 4 years ago the United States gave the Congo 13 Billion Dollars. And if you do your research many other countries as well have been given as much. I think if you did unbiased research you may find Israel is not the only country that we give to.
What did all those country's do with my tax dollars? We are a giving Country and We are not all Christians, not all believe in God. It is rare for any Country to give to us.
Name:Judith •
Date: 06/18/08 15:39
A: German
If the truth is out there , it will be noted by most of the people. It will not matter what country , and yes it can be damaging to Faith of some people. It may even undermine the Muslim Religion.
I happen to think the odd's are in favor I Simcha and his team. Some Churches don't want it out, and it is my belief that is why so many European Church's were being Burned to the Ground. That was to get rid of any evidence of any family related to the line of David.
Name:sam •
Date: 06/20/08 0:11
A: Hi Judith,
"About 4 years ago the United States gave the Congo 13 Billion Dollars. And if you do your research many other countries as well have been given as much."
{Money given to the congo to get rid of the Cuban who run the country for many years. And they supported Ben-Laden [Dollars and arms etc.], in Afaganistan to fight the Soviets.}
{I do believe that, the united state of America is a great country and a great nation, but , in politics they do a lot of mistakes, and they do take sides, for example they take the side of the Saudi kingdom, and Kuwait and Egypt etc. knowing that in those countries people are oppressed, and governed tyrannically, and they take side with Israel while the Palestinians thrown out of their home and country, millions of refugees living away from their homes for 60 years in the worst conditions. 2 millions Jews from Russia are coming to steal more land and more homes!!!. I think some people are blind to see the truth. The Palestinian people were in Palastine even before Abraham. God never gave them the land, and those who wrote the Bible are Jews, and they wrote a lot of wrong things, which are not right [the earth and the plants were created before the sun and the stars !!!, can anyone believe that, and there are more than 2000 contradiction and error in that Book !!!.]
National Geographic presented a program few days ago, done by French journalist, show the suffering of the Palestinans In Gaza and the West Bank under the military occupation [millions are prisoned in their land and has no freedom, even the children]. The wall of Berlin was a big deal, but what about the wall which inprison millions of Palestinians, in Palestine?, Are America and the American blind not to see the wrong ?.
The African American, Rev. on the news every night saying "God bless America !!!, No, no, no..God condemn America for the killing .....", He is an American and a priest who fear God, telling the truth, so why they should hate him ?. He was not talking about the American but about the wrong policies which led to wars and killing for no reason.
---- "In 2006, the U.S. government provided more than $26 billion in foreign assistance to some 120 countries and territories around the world. " Egypt received 1.5 billion. Poland, Romaniam, Uzbecstan and many other been given billions of Dollars to Join in the war against Iraq.
The war which was built on lies and lies. The war which cost the American tax payers 400+ billions, 12 Billions every month, and compleetely destoyed small country . 600 thousand plus, were killed, men women and children and hundreds of thousand injured, children lost eyes, face, arm and legs. [Four thousand plus, soldiers, men/women were killed 26 thousand plus injured, some losr parts of their body, and for what? , for lies and lies by their government. that is not fair ]
PROPAGANDA: A child who's face was ruined in the war, brought to the US for treatment, and he is on the news everywhere , day and night for many weeks!!!. What about the ten of thousand other children who been damaged by the war, not onlly phisically but mentally [many soldiers came home with mental problem , you should know this fact, and thy are complaining too?]
-----" Nearly 100 Countries Send Money, Assistance to U.S. Hurricane Victims ...
... State Department is working with other U.S. government agencies to evaluate and distribute the nearly $1 billion in cash and assistance pouring into the United states ... assistance pouring into the United States from 95 countries ... " USINFO.STATE.GOV
KUWAIT SENT 500 MILLIONS.
--- On CNN for the last two days.... millions of Dollars of materials suppose to go to Cathrina victims kept in wherhouses for two years and then were given to others [it is writeen in black and white], the same happen when money sent to other countries, mostly, it is not for the people who need it but for those on top [POLITICS].
God bles you.
Name:Judith •
Date: 06/20/08 1:26
A: I personally was against the war in Iraq. But Saddam was not exactly , a Kermit the Frog or a Barney when it came to destroying entire families including infants.
Name:Sassy •
Date: 06/20/08 6:05
A: I was against the war too Judith. You don't solve problems by fighting/starting wars. But that's what happens when men run the show. More women in politically powerful positions is what is needed. And more "minorities". Less wars that way. less pollution probably too.
A study done a few years back regarding governments around the world noted that the most corrupt governments are totally 100 per cent "male". however the more that women were in political positions of some "power" let's say, the less corruption. so more women in politics = less corruption in government. Makes sense to me.
Well from what I can gather there are more women in universities than men in the Western World these days so maybe there is hope. Just a slight per centage more, but still... except for "certain" schools such as computers and whatnot. Interesting though. Time for the women to run the show and let the men cook and clean and take care of the kids, and do all the other 'thankless tasks' women do 'for free.'
but why not give women a shot I say ! We can't do any worse than the men in running the world, that is a given. only problem is the world is still so sexist. :\
Name:Judith •
Date: 06/20/08 15:00
A: Hello Sassy
I am not against war if there is a threat, and have known some pretty corrupt women. But I was against this war, they never attacked the US (they may have wanted to) . More women are able to get grants to go to College now and minorities also have an edge on the Grants System. I know that because my two older children are one quarter Filipino . My daughter is the one who got the grants. She has a degree with honors in Liberal Arts and Philosophy.
We have the greatest men , from all races and they are getting killed for the wrong war.
Name:Judith •
Date: 06/20/08 15:21
A: Starman
It would be nice if all could have an open mind, but the fact is most Churches quit literally teach not to have an open mind, because Satan may jump in. There may be a reason for that, because to many would take so little and run with it, like a mess of back seat drivers, and would cause more confusion. To be a highly trained and respectable human in the unseen realm takes years, and much observation, so as not to take the wrong path. You probably will never even hear from those only the arrogant want to run a comptative spiritual race.
Name:sam •
Date: 06/21/08 3:37
A: Dear Judith,
" But Saddam was not exactly , a Kermit the Frog or a Barney when it came to destroying entire families including infants. "
Walking step by step in history;
----- Iraq was pushed to war with Iran by the USA and other western countries, to tople the regime of the Khomeini.
"The United States supported Iraq during the Iran-Iraq War as a counterbalance to post-revolutionary Iran. The support took the form of technological aid, intelligence, the sale of dual-use and military equipment, and direct involvement and warfare against Iran. [2]"
"Other countries that supported Iraq during the war included Britain, France, the Soviet Union, and West Germany."
"The war produced no advantage for either side during most of the 8 years. However, it resulted in heavy losses on both sides with 600,000 Iranian and 400,000 Iraqis dead,......" All that came from American sources.
Iraq used mustard gas in that war....United state used mustard gas, napalm , agent orange [which kills people, animals and plants] PLUS MORE BOMB THAN THE WW-2 in Vietnam. Millions of Vietnamese killed by the French first and by the US after. Vietnam naver attacked anyone.
"THE BIG LIE: 30-year Anniversary: Tonkin Gulf Lie Launched Vietnam War, ....."
"The official story was that North Vietnamese torpedo boats launched an "unprovoked attack" against a U.S. destroyer on "routine patrol" in the Tonkin Gulf on Aug. 2 ,...."
"But Johnson ordered U.S. bombers to "retaliate" for a North Vietnamese torpedo attack that never happened....."
NEVER HAPPENED.....LIES IN VIETNAM & LIES IN IRAQ & AND EVERYWHERE ELSE.
The kurd in Iraq came from Kurdistan in central Asia [Their country occupied by the Russian] they are in Syria and Lebanon too. They try to devide Iraq and take the north, taking advantange from the war, and were supported by Iran, and by Israel, and 2300 were killed by mustard gas [Vietnamese were killid by many sorts of gases and by the millions].
What you think the American will do if the Hispanics became a power and try to separate and take California or Florida ?, Do you think that the states will not fight them. In another fifty years they might be able to do that with the increasing rate of them coming legally and illigally. They are planing to take back what was their before [that is their long range policies].
" Bush, Blair were not exactly , a Kermit the Frog or a Barney when it came to destroying entire NATIONS, families including infants. "
Do you think that the millions of tons of the American bombs and gases, and the zillions of bullets when thrown from the warplanes do not kill families and infants. Can you remember seeying the children running away from the fire which swept their village and the naked girl ?.
People should be fair when judging, and we should find the truth behind any action, we should not blame anyone before knowing the truth.
SADDAM IS BAD, BUSH AND BLAIR AND MANY OTHERS ARE NOT ANGELS.
God bless you
Name:Judith •
Date: 06/21/08 5:55
A: Thank you Sam for that history lesson . I am guessing you where there ? I know my mother-in-laws best friend Colonel Wilson was , because he had been in several wars and 3 prisoner of war camps. He was against this war and he also did say that Osama was trained by the USA. He passed in his eighties 2 years ago.
I and knew some of those guys back then, and my nephew went to Desert Storm. You do what your country tells you to do. I also have a Cousin now married to a Vietnamese and she and her family claim they were glad the USA was there. Many of the young Vietnamese I speak to here in the USA tell me they wanted the Soulders there. It is rare to find one that says the opposite.
God Bless you also
Name:Judith •
Date: 06/21/08 6:38
A: Dear Sam
This conversation has nothing to do with ": If it wasn't for Simcha," so lets leave it alone and stay with the subject. Thank you
I don't like war and don't know to many people who do.
Name:sam •
Date: 06/21/08 18:46
A: Hi Judith,
I was born in Lebanon, and my family left in 1953, moved to Iraq [7 years], I worked in Kuwait [2 years], Family moved to Syria , I moved too to finish my university degree, and get married, back to Lebanon to work [2 years], In 1971 moved to Australia, 1980 moved to Canada, my son moved to the State 1994, get his MD , get married, his wife is American and a catholic, the both studied and graduated together, our grandson is nine, and his last report which just received yesterday has nothing but A and A + .
I wrote all that to show you that I been all around the world, meeting and working with people everywhere.
In the Middle East , 99% of the people loved the United State and the American people, all the time , until the 70th, when America lost the respect, because it is one sided policies and the disrespect for the Arab people. Now as we hear all the time from CNN and other news media that America lost many of her friens and alies around the world, that is after the lies which led to the Iraq war, and Abou-Greib etc.
Those Vietnamese who want American soldiers on their home land and accept the others to bomb and kill their own people they are not the honest one.
The Saudies are governed by a family of princes, and some followers who benefits a lot from keeping the regime, you ask any of them about the bases with American soldiers, and you will get the same answer as from the Vietnamese who worked with the American, and those are a small percentage from the total. The majority of the Saudies or any other nation, the people who feel proud about their country they will never accept an ocupying outsider force to be in their land. Not the Indian or the Mexican or the Canadian , or the Philipino, only those who have no honor will accept to be occupied by soldiers from another country. That is the truth.
I will close this subject as you wished, to go back to Simcha discovery, the Tomb of Jesus.
God bless you.
Name:sam •
Date: 06/21/08 19:13
A: Hi again Judith,
" Many of the young Vietnamese I speak to here in the USA tell me they wanted the Soulders there"
"The Vietnam War, also known as the Second Indochina War, the Vietnam Conflict, and, in Vietnam, the American War, occurred from March 1959[10] to April 30, 1975."
THE AMERICAN WAR... ENDED IN 1975.... THAT WAS 33 YEARS AGO.
YOUNG VIETNAMESE : means that they were born after the war ended, and may be they were born in America and mostly they are American.
---- The truth can be found in Vietnam, and from the Vietnamese who been living 16 years of the horrible war, and before many years of war against the French and the Japenese. I feel sorry for those people when I read their stories and the sacrifice which the give to get rid of the outsider soldiers from thei home land.
I do hate wars. Members of my mother family [woman & child killed, and her 2 years old twin girls were injured but saved, blind bombing from the air, for no reason.
Name:Judith •
Date: 06/21/08 22:56
A: YOUNG VIETNAMESE : means that they were born after the war ended, and may be they were born in America and mostly they are American.
My cousins wife is by no means young, He was in that war when he met her,
and her parents are not young they are in their 80's . She was brought to the USA immediately , when he returned
Name:Judith •
Date: 06/21/08 23:01
A: Sam
I hope you find a chat room for war stories, this was supposed to be about the Jesus Tomb. It appears finished.
And my sister is married to a 65 year old whose parents were in a German War Camp and they are not even Jewish. Yes war goes on and has for well over 6,000 years .
God Bless You
Name:Judith •
Date: 06/22/08 5:12
A: Dear Sam
Just a few of several Chinese Wars : No white or Black man included. I am sure you can find many more
Chinese Invaded
By the end of the 2nd millennium BC, the Zhou Dynasty began to emerge in the Yellow River valley,
overrunning the Shang.(king until 256 BC, he was largely )
After further political consolidation, seven prominent states remained by the end of 5th century BC, and the
years in which these few states battled each other are known as the Warring States Period.
The Han Dynasty emerged in 206 BC. It was the first dynasty to embrace the philosophy of Confucianism,
In AD 9, the usurper Wang
The Yellow Turban Rebellion 184, ushering in an era of warlords. In the ensuing turmoil, three states tried to
gain predominance in the Period of the Three Kingdoms.
The Cheng Han 303 or 304-347 was a state of the Sixteen Kingdoms during the Jin Dynasty (265-420) in
China.
In 383 The Battle of Fei River or “Feishui
In May of 383, a Jin army of 100,000 commanded by Huan Chong attempted to recover Xiangyang but was
driven off by a Qin relief
In 371, having lost a devastating battle to the Former Yan general Murong Chui in 369,
All these Chinese Dynastys Fought , real wars, http://www.geocities.com/Colleg-ePark/Union/7050/tang.html
Fro-m- 618 AD to 907 AD
618 ad to 627 ad The first emperor of Tang Dynasty, obained the throne by rebelling from Sui dynasty
0627AD-0649AD One of the greatest emperors in Chinese history, his era is called "Flourishing Age".
0904AD-0907AD Zhu Quanzong obained the throne from Ai Zong, and changed the dynasty into Da Liang(later
Liang). Tang dynaster was ruined. Several interior wars.
Unable to reach political accommodation on disputed territory along the 3,225-kilometer-long Himalayan
border, the Chinese attacked India on October 20, 1962.
In the eastern sector, in Assam, the Chinese forces advanced easily despite Indian efforts at resistance. On
the first day of the fighting, Indian forces stationed at the Tsang Le post on the northern side of the Namka
Chu, the Khinzemane post, and near Dhola were overrun. On the western side of the North-East Frontier
Agency, Tsang Dar fell on October 22, Bum La
Name:sam •
Date: 06/23/08 0:11
A: Dear Judith,
My first Hobby is reading, Geography & history at the top, then sciences. It run in the blood in our family. My father collection of books atlases maps beside his stories all was the start for us, My elder brother subscibed in the National Geographic in the 40's when it was printed in black, and I did start with NG in 1954, I can drew a world map and the map of most countries and acurate from my mind, my younger brother had a BA degree in geography, and he published several books for the high school in Lebanon.
My grandson [he was 6 years young] when he pointed at the globe and say "grandpa, here , peter [his friend] grandma live in Hungary. And he choses Egypt for his birhtday vacation over walt disney, he wanted to see the Pyramids and the Nile and the Museum.
Two weeks ago I bought a book from Chapters "GIBBON'S -Decline and fall of the Roman Impire", before that I read a book from the library "Peter the great".
God bless you
Name:Judith •
Date: 06/23/08 0:42
A: Hello Sam
I a happy for you, it must be nice to be in a wealthy family, who can afford all that travel.
