Name:Ulaw •
Title: Is this another attack on christianity- Scientist Finds the •
Date posted: 03/22/07 13:50
Q: Is morality the product of evolution/biology not theology?
Scientist Finds the Beginnings of Morality in Primate Behavior
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/20/sci-ence/20moral.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&ref=science-
Name:Ulaw •
Date: 03/22/07 13:55
A: Oops try this one:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/20/sci-ence/20moral.html?ex=1332043200&en=84f902cc-81da9173&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rs-s-
Name:Ulaw •
Date: 03/22/07 13:56
A: Haha oh well just goggle
Scientist Finds the Beginnings of Morality in Primate Behavior
to find the story.
Name:jsm •
Date: 03/30/07 5:47
A: I think I read that a couple days ago, something about monkeys banging rocks. Its research like this that give true scientists bad reps. The only reason articles like this come about is for federal funding reasons. Why do you think all the supposed intermediate links between human and chimps have either been disproven, or proven to be a fraud. It all comes down to money, you gotta come up with something once in awhile to keep your funding rolling in. And if you don't have anything, you make a fraud. Don't buy into most of the evolutionist propaganda, because most of the time they don't believe it themselves.
Name:Anchorite •
Date: 03/30/07 6:35
A: Jsm, so right. If the Government acted on your ideas, 98 percent of so-called scientists would be flipping burgers! I love it!
But where did morality come from? It is an alternate to power that is yet more powerful, because of numbers.
Perhaps the success of Christianity was due to its inclusiveness of women, of the weak, et al.
Name:jsm •
Date: 03/30/07 7:09
A: I believe in Chemistry, Biology, and the interaction of the two to form ideas which lead us to what is moral and unmoral, but as to the origins of the complexity involved in even forming one single idea... I believe we would have to be created then taught. Even the process of retaining information (memory) is more complex and incapable of every computer microprocessor put together on this earth.
And just some food for some thought, there was an experiment done not to long ago where a computer with 82 parallel processors had to fold an amino acid chain. I mean we gave the computer the chain already put together to begin with which is extremely complex, and all the computer had to do is fold the chain into a protein. If there was one misfold, just like in nature, the chain would break, but luckily for the computer, it had retry after retry. It took the computer several months to complete the task and they calculated it out for a normal computer it would take 82 years to fold it. But the real kicker is, the cell folds that chain into a protein in 10 microseconds. And thats just one protein, we have thousands of different types of proteins, then you can dig down into DNA and the complexity of that. The majority of people have absolutely no idea the complexity of life. They think DNA can just form in a mud puddle, the most sophisticated machinery we've ever laid our eyes on. And as for DNA... Our DNA is constantly being repaired by molecular machines. Constantly... Without these machines our DNA would break down and we'd die. Now the real problem is that say IF, now a big IF, DNA was able to form by natural processes, there are no molecular machines to repair the DNA. Our DNA has a code to build these molecular machines. So they both have to be present, and thats just one example of the thousands that have to be present all at once for DNA to exist.
Name:Anchorite •
Date: 03/30/07 14:31
A: "The chain is key they say, you are your DNA, but even DNA, will twist in every way". I posted this elswhere on this site yesterday.
A computer is built to replicate our dialectic, which assumes 3 cueballs can never meet at the same instant.
Name:Red •
Date: 03/30/07 15:04
A: Im gonna go out on a limb and take a crack at the original question.
I beleive morality is for the most part a learned process. Now, before you guys blow a gasket, bear with me.
When I say a "learned process", I dont mean a process as simple as going to the library, or googling the topic and getting morals. What I mean is a process that has took much time through trial and error, Experience, and common sense ideas of "what works, and what doesnt".
Take for example the animals. While we humans knock ourselves out with the idea that we are much more evolved, rational, and closer to the creator, Ect.. , we build our empires of stone and steel and live apart from the very nature of the creator. In this nature there are all the moral lessons a person needs. Bare with me ...
Take a cat for example. The cat (or any other animal, tree, bug), does NOT have an identity crises. Only humans. These living things KNOW what they are with absolute certainty. They do what they do, unquestionably, NOT because they have no morals (that's our assumption), But because they do not put into question what they are, who they are, or where they are. They live their lives 100%. They do not question themselves because they KNOW their limitations, and they know their strengths.
You will not see a cat attempting to be a Bird. You will not see a snake attempt to be a tree. They do not question their identity.
What does this have to do with Morality? Well, When that cat travels off his territory, he KNOWS he is . He is very aware of the possible consequences. (a fight or death ). He does not see this activity as imoral, but sees it as a gamble to gain something. (food, female,). Humans have been partaking in this same activity for years. The only diffrence is that mankind determined that it is imoral to go off your territory and gain something. (food , female), and a punishment is in order for the action or thought whether or not you are successful. The cat's punishment if caught is Obvious. He gets his A%$ kicked, or bit, and possibly death through that action.
The cat has learned to be cunning because of these dangers. So has
man. But man has also attempted to prevent the action through an aggreement of sorts- "Morals"
Am I suggesting we throw the code out and live like the animals ? NO. We already do that. My point is Morals are a prouduct of necesity.
Moses, while in the wilderness with all those 100,000's of people obviously started having problems. "Thou shalt not commit adultery" was probably a response to an Adultery problem amongst the people. And it was causing obviously fighting, killing, and everything else that goes along with finding your wife shareing a pillow with another man. Moses was also beggining to learn about disease, cleanliness ect., and gave commandments accordingly. "thou shalt not Kill" was obviously a commandment against human killing because animal sacrifice was going on wholesale. This was obviously a response to a Murder/ killing problem going on amongst the people. Also, people must not have been honouring their mother and father and there must have been false witnessing (lieing) going on too.
The Egyptions probably had these codes inforce in some terms amongst their society. When Moses took the Jews out, they obviously left that society and it's codes and had to put together something to keep order.
Moses had "God" to underwrite the laws, and thereby making them Commandments to put further authority to them. We do this in the courts by placing a hand on the bible before testifying. Remember, At this time the population were becoming Dis-illusioned with Moses, and he was not being obeyed much.
My point to all this is Morals are a learned necessity of man kind. The Lessons are all there in "God's creation However. Every living thing places value on right or wrong according to it's own place in that creation, and the inherant problems unique to the species and it's enviroment.
The cat doesnt need a peace treaty with the neihbor cat. An A%$ kicking will suffice.
In the deep woods where there are densely packed trees of all sorts growing, there is a lovely lesson to behold. These trees get so packed that a struggle ensues thier whole life. They Do not 'Become all they can be". They can not be who they really are genetically or otherwise. The struggle for sunlight in such an enviroment requires ALL trees to become something they wouldnt be if they happened to be liveing in an open feild. Trunks will try to go strait up, but when met with resistance from another, it will grow to a PRECISE TWO ANGLE OFFSET to clear an obstacle, or to put it under a hole in the forest roof. This tree would not normally do this if in the open. Also, the race is on to the roof. This causes trees to grow quickly but thin. Some species will go strait up as faster than normal, and out grow it's ability to support itself and die young when the first good wind comes around or some Oak intrudes.
As men we need laws and Morals to keep others from intruding in whatever form, so we can be all we can be. In the woods the strong survive. This is not a bad idea. It's all is based on how it's implemented. Not just Brute Force, But Intelligence also. I see more intellegence in these trees than 90% of folks on the tele.......
Name:Panluna •
Date: 03/31/07 19:23
A: Moral values are an important part of one's upbringing and are taught in the home environment then reinforced by social laws.
Name:sadinoel •
Date: 04/02/07 1:55
A: One thing is for sure.
Inetnet message boards is where I always turn for the answers to lifes important questions. Well, there and the Natl. Enquirer of course. lol
Name:Red •
Date: 04/02/07 2:30
A: As you can see, I dont look to old writings from people who daily smoked Opium then claim their visions and auditory Illusions as messages from God.
