Name:sam •
Title: JESUS VS PAUL !—CHRISTIANITY OR PAULLIANITY ?- TRINITY OR ON •
Date posted: 04/09/11 20:20
Q: This subject been studied and analyzed by many Christian scholars , beside other scholars from the Jewish and Muslim faiths in the last few decades.
It was very interesting to watch ALL the talks, and the debates which goes on in regard to these claims.
My findings will be brought in several parts:
PART ONE.
The following are few video sites from YOUTUBE which I find interesting to watch, and those are representing THE VIEWS OF CHRISTIAN SCHOLARS:
1- The false teachings of the apostle Paul, part 1 - disc 1 - Dr. Ray Hagins
2- St. Paul Disciple or deceiver ?
3- Jesus vs Paul - true Christianity vs false Paulianity
4- THE LIE OF ST PAUL
In #4 , I read the following: “Paul, the founder of Christianity , rejected the message of Jesus (and everything He stood for) while replacing the Gospel with his own distorted version.”
Of course, that is true, and can be proved by Paul’s own words, “But if we, or an angel from heaven, SHOULD PREACH TO YOU A GOSPEL CONTRARY TO WHAT WE [that “WE means, Paul and his followers] HAVE PREACHED TO YOU, HE IS TO BE ACCURSED!- Galatians 1:8 “
First, that was written by Paul many years before the writing of the four Gospels.
Second, Paul’s own words tells us that there are others who were writing and preaching the words of Jesus, and those are His very close followers and from His own family.
Third, That is why Paul’s personal letters became part of the Bible, and the Gospels of the others been discredited, and burned.
{Besides the above four videos there are hundreds more, but I think watching these four will give a clear example to what some well educated Christians think of their own religion !. That is a prove to what Bishop John S. Spong wrote many years earlier , “A GOD OR A FAITH SYSTEM THAT HAS TO BE DEFENDED DAILY IS FINALLY NO GOD OR A FAITH SYSTEM AT ALL.—THE BIBLE FULL OF CONTRADICTIONS AND ERRORS.----THE GOSPELS CANNOT BE TRUSTED TO BE RELIABLE.”
And after many years from the Bishop’s statement came others to prove him right.
Professor, Dr. Bart Ehrman is just one of those who wrote many books in this subject (contradictions & errors in the Bible), and not only showing this fact, but also explaining HOW & WHY Christians believing in the Bible, and misses seeing the errors and contradiction in it. And he gave his explanation as follow:
1- Christian read the Gospels VERTICALLY , and that means they start by Matthew then Mark, and Luke , and John, then Paul and so on. They accept blindly that every one tells the same story, and all their stories are true.
2- But, IF the Christians read the Gospels HORIZONTALLY , and that means to read the same event side by side, as for example, in Matthew [Jesus is Risen!] , and in Mark & Luke [The Resurrection] , and in John [The empty tomb], and compare each story with the others stories they will find total contradictions with one another, and that proves all the four stories are not true.
3- ALL stories been written many years after the fact, and by unknown people, who never been an eyewitness to these events. The Gospels are labeled by “ACCORDING” , according to Matthew, or Mark, or Luke or John, WHY?, because Matthew , Mark, Luke and John they are not the actual writers of theses Gospels, and the names are created/introduced after 180 years later.
To prove it , Just we read the first page of this Forum , where it mentions the other Gospels with the name of its writers , “Gospel of Mary... Gospel of Thomas....The Gospels Nazarene [The Gospel of the holy twelve *]
In a matter of fact, I came to the same conclusion reading the Gospels HORIZONTALLY many years before I watch Dr. Ehrman video , and I brought my findings to THIS FORUMS earlier .
* The Gospel of the 1. Nazarenes or the Gospel of the Holy Twelve is considered to be the original Gospel or one of the first complete written manuscripts of the original word of Jesus.
The term "Nazarene" is used by some to refer to early Jewish followers of Christianity in connection with the ancient Essene sect of Judaism which Jesus is often associated with. The original Gospels of Nazarene are said to have been written by St. John, who passed the manuscript along to a trusted friend in 70 AD following his arrest.
In the nineteenth century, the Gospel of the Holy Twelve was rediscovered by a friar. However, since its exposure to Church Authorities in Rome, it has remained hidden in the Vatican archive, which some say is due to newly discovered content that would discredit the Church and the Council of Nicea. “
JESUS VS PAUL
I n the above we come to two facts:
The first, in the last 2000 years , Paul’s teachings won over Jesus and His followers teachings, and from that time until now Paul’s followers in their debates in any aspects of their beliefs uses Paul’s words 90% of the time {and John will come after}, they hardly bring Jesus’s words side by side with Paul’s words, because that will show the lies of Paul.
The second, after 2000 years, some early Gospels discovered, and because of these writing might bring the truth, in which the churches of Paul in Rome does not want the Christians to see , the new Gospels are HIDDEN IN THE VATICAN ARCHIVE, and that prove beyond any doubt that THE CHURCHES NOT HONEST THEN, AND NOT HONEST NOW, AND THEY ARE BUILT ON DECEPTION AND LIES.
“AS WE HAVE SAID BEFORE, SO I [PAUL] SAY AGAIN NOW, IF ANY MAN IS PREACHING TO YOU A GOSPEL CONTRARY TO WHAT YOU RECEIVED, HE IS TO BE ACCURSED. Galatians 1:9 “ I hope you did not forget Galatians 1:8 above.
To be continued.....
Name:sam •
Date: 04/12/11 23:58
A: THE LIES AND THE TRUTH.
PAUL VS PETER.
[Information brought here came from the “wikipedia” - St. Paul & St. Peter . My analyses came between brackets]
PAUL
Paul wrote some of “the most beautiful* and important ** passages in the whole of the Bible”, but his works have also been used, among other things, to justify homophobia, slavery and anti-Semitism. He has also been accused of being anti-feminist.
* [Paul’s words are more beautiful and important than the words of Moses and Jesus and the others, and that is why the Christians use his words to justify the Divinity of Jesus which he created , Christians followed him because of his BEAUTIFUL WORDS, and NOT for TELLING THE TRUTH !.
** Christians should understand that Jesus words are God’s words, and they are more IMPORTANT than Paul’ words.]
Paul works are some of the earliest Christian documents that we have, 13 of the 27 books* of the bible are written by him, and he's the hero of another, Acts of the Apostles.
* [The 13 documents are no more than personal letters sent by Paul to the other churches in which he include his instructions that he is in charge of everything:
1 Timothy 1:1 Paul, and apostle of Christ Jesus “according to the commandment * “ of God....
* [Paul is a big liar. God commandments never been given to Paul, but only to Moses and Jesus. Paul lies , he is not an apostle, and was not chosen by Jesus. as we learn from the next two verses from his letters]
1 Timothy 1: As I [Paul] urged you......you may instruct certain men NOT TO TEACH STRANGE DOCTRINES. **
** [Those are the teachings of the other real apostles, whom Paul cursed , including PETER , as we learn about Peter next.]
“AS WE HAVE SAID BEFORE, SO I [PAUL] SAY AGAIN NOW, IF ANY MAN IS PREACHING TO YOU A GOSPEL CONTRARY TO WHAT YOU RECEIVED, HE IS TO BE ACCURSED. Galatians 1:9 “
The one thing most people do know about St Paul is that he underwent a dramatic conversion on the road to Damascus. Precisely what happened has been hard to determine as the accounts in Acts and the letters differ on the details *. For example, when St Paul talks about his conversion he makes no mention of a journey from Jerusalem to Damascus.
* [HARD TO DETERMINE...DIFFER . That means the story is not true, but a fabrication, as the VISION of Paul in the road to Damascus it is no more than a big lie.]
Paul was the first great Christian theologian, establishing some of the building blocks of the faith that we now take for granted* , though there are those who argue that in laying out these ground rules, Paul has obscured and separated us from the true teachings of Jesus **.
[* True, Paul is the creator of the religion which they call Christianity.
** And it is true that Paul has OBSCURED AND SEPARATE THE PEOPLE FROM THE TRUE TEACHING OF JESUS.]
Paul who BERATES his followers for backsliding and doubting; the Paul who tells women to keep silent and condemns homosexuality and the PAUL WHO’LL STAND UP TO THE APOSTLE PETER, ONE OF THE MOST SENIOR PEOPLE IN THE EARLY CHURCH AND CALL HIM A HYPOCRITE IN HIS FACE.
............. ST. PETER A HYPOCRITE OR PAUL A LIAR ! ? .
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ST-.- PETER:
It was during his first meeting with Jesus that Jesus named him Peter*. Peter was to become the first Apostle** ordained by Jesus in the early church.According to New Testament account, he was one of the twelve Apostles, chosen by Jesus from His first Disciples.
.............................JESUS GAVE PETER THE NAME
.............................AND THE FIRST APOSTLE, CHOSEN BY JESUS
He was a fisherman assigned a leadership role by Jesus and was with Jesus during events witnessed by only a few Apostles, such as the Transfiguration.
.........-...................ASSIGNED- A LEADERSHIP ROLE BY JESUS.
............................WITNESSED JESUS MIRACLES.
Thereafter we read from:
Acts 9:32 Now as Peter was traveling.....
33 There he found a man named Aeneas, who had been bedridden eight years, for he was paralyzed.
34 Peter said to him,”Aeneas, Jesus Christ heals you; get up and make your bed.” IMMEDIATELY HE GOT UP.
IN JOPPA, a woman named Tabitha.
37 And it happened at that time that she fell sick and DIED.......
40 ...... Peter turning to the body , he said, “Tabitha , ARISE.” AND SHE OPENED HER EYES, AND WHEN SHE SAW PETER, SHE SET UP.
....................................TWO MIRACLES DONE BY ST. PETER.
.................................. A PARALYZED MAN WALKED ,
...................................AND A DEAD WOMAN BROUGHT TO LIFE.
Peter wrote two catholic epistles. The Gospel of Mark is also ascribed to him (as Mark was his Disciple and interpreter )
So, when we read:
“WHY DO YOU CALL ME GOOD ? NO ONE IS GOOD EXCEPT GOD ALONE. Mark 10:18 *"
“HEAR O ISRAEL ! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD . Mark 12:29 **"
we should understand that is what Peter believed. He believed in ONE GOD, AS JESUS BELIEVED.
* Start with Matthew and end with the Revelation, This sayings came ONLY in Mark and Luke !!!
** That came ONLY in Mark, and never mentioned in the other books of the new testament.
Is that make you wonder how the things been worked out in making the books, to benefit those who seek prestige and power in this world as Paul, those who do not respect Jesus’ or God’s words!!!}
{Quran 2:79 ....those who write the “SCRIPTURE” with their own hands, and then say, “This is from Allah [God],” in order to exchange it for a small price.}
And the following prove the Quran is right.
On the other hand, several books - the Acts, Gospel, preaching, revelation, and judgement OF PETER - ARE REJECTED BY CHRISTIANS as Apocryphal.
[ Those are rejected because they bring the truth about Jesus and God, and that is against the teachings of Paul and the churches. The churches always try to bury the truth]
The author of the
1- Acts of the Apostles portrays Peter as an extremely important figure within the early Christian community.
........................at the beginning, PETER IS AN EXTREMELY IMPORTANT FIGURE.
About halfway through, things changed .
2- Acts of the Apostles TURN ITS ATTENTION AWAY FROM PETER AND TO THE ACTIVITIES OF PAUL, and the Bible is fairly silent on what occurred to Peter afterwards.
.......................... HALF THE WAY IN THE CHURCH GAME, PAUL WON, AND PETER LOST. PETER WHO CAME TO BE THE FIRST APOSTLE. PETER WHO EAT, DRINK AND WALK WITH JESUS. PETER WHO DONE MIRACLES SIMILAR TO JESUS. THIS GREAT APOSTLE LOSES TO PAUL THE LIAR !!!.
......................... JESUS TEACHINGS AND MESSAGE DISTORTED AND OVERRUN BY PAUL’S TEACHINGS, SO, JESUS LOSES TO PAUL THE LIAR !!!.
1Cor.
6:2 Or do you not know that THE SAINTS WILL JUDGE THE WORLD?
6:3 DO YOU KNOW THAT WE [Paul & the other saints- more that ten thousands today] WILL JUDGE THE ANGELS?
[That is a blasphemy. God’s angels are spirits and cannot be judged by any other than God himself, and anyone who think he can judge the angels is an ignorant , silly and stupid.]
9:18.... I [Paul] MAY OFFER THE GOSPEL WITHOUT CHARGE.... [$$$$]
9:19.....I [Paul] HAVE MADE MYSELF A SLAVE TO ALL, SO THAT I MAY WIN MORE. [WIN...WIN...WIN, that is Paul’s aim, no matter what tricks he use]
9:20 To the Jew I became as a Jew.....to those who are under the law, as under the law....to those who are without law,, as without law......etc., I HAVE BECOME ALL THINGS TO ALL MEN.....
[Can anyone with a working brain trust a man with many faces ?]
9:24 DO YOU NOT KNOW THAT THOSE WHO RUN IN A RACE ALL RUN, BUT ONLY ONE RECEIVES THE PRIZE ? RUN IN SUCH A WAY THAT YOU MAY WIN.
[Jesus came and gave His message, and shows us the way, and left. Jesus did not inter in race with the Jews to win for Himself, but He came to bring people to the right pass, in WORSHIPING GOD IN THE RIGHT WAY .
On the other hand, and as we learned from the Gospels and Paul’s letters, and what the other Christians found, that there was a race for the chair of the leadership in the church, and the race was between the followers of Jesus, as Peter, Barnabas etc. on one side, and Paul and his followers [the Romans, Corinthians, Galatians etc] , on the other side, which ended by Paul winning. As we learn from Paul’s words above that he used force, and every devilish tricks and lies, all mixed with sweat words and fancy ideas, just to win.
Roman 3:8 ....LET US DO EVIL THAT GOOD MAY COME.
[Good comes from doing evil?, what a foolish thing to say !!!.]
1Cor. 4:21 What do you desire ? SHALL I COME TO YOU WITH A ROD [PUNISHMENT] , or with love and a spirit of gentleness ?.
[ FIRST COME THE ROD & PUNISHMENT, that is what we call love by force !!!]
2Cor.
11:16 Again I say , LET NO ONE THINK ME FOOLISH; but if you do, receive me even as foolish, SO THAT I ALSO MAY BOAST A LITTLE.
Sayings are attributed to Peter :
1- Gospel of Thomas. PETER COMPARE JESUS TO A “JUST MESSENGER”
2- Gospel of Peter. Attributed to Peter, contains an account of the death of Jesus differing significantly from the canonical gospels.
[Of course, that is not new, the contradictions are all over the Bible]
I AM ONLY DEFENDING JESUS, AND HIS WORDS ARE ALL THE TRUTH WHICH WE NEED.
LET US BELIEVE IN GOD AS JESUS BELIEVED IN GOD, AND WORSHIP GOD AS JESUS WORSHIPED GOD, AND PRAY TO GOD AS JESUS PRAYED TO GOD.
I will end my work with what Jesus told us:
THEREFORE I SAY TO YOU, ANY SIN AND BLASPHEMY SHALL BE FORGIVEN PEOPLE, BUT BLASPHEMY AGAINST THE SPIRIT [GOD] SHALL NOT BE FORGIVEN.
WHOEVER SPEAKS A WORD AGAINST THE SON OF MAN [JESUS], IT SHALL BE FORGIVEN HIM; BUT WHOEVER SPEAKS AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT [GOD], IT SHALL NOT BE FORGIVEN HIM, EITHER IN THIS AGE OR THE AGE TO COME.
....NO ONE IS GOOD EXCEPT GOD ALONE....
....THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD....
MAKING GOD IN THREE PERSONS, AND MAKING JESUS A GOD, AND MAKING MARY A MOTHER TO GOD, ALL THAT ARE WORDS AGAINST GOD, AND WILL NOT BE FORGIVEN.
