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Name: DATRUTH •
Title: Jesus Never Died on the CROSS •
Date posted: 03/05/07 20:14
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Q: First of all Jesus was on the cross little more then three hours. Historians know that it takes days for someone to die on the cross. If we are to believe the bible then no Apostle was an eyewitness to the crucifixion.
"All his disciples forsook him and fled"- (Mark 14:50)
Once you are dead you are spiritualized and no longer have a body. Hebrews 9:27. It says:
". . . It is ordained unto all men ONCE to die, and after that the judgement."
"And they (the disciples), when they heard that he was ALIVE, and had been seen by her (Mary Magdalene),they BELIEVED NOT." (HOLY BIBLE) Mark 16:11
Resurrected souls need no sustenance to survive, however..
"And it came to pass, as he sat EATING with them, he took bread and blessed it, and broke it, and gave it to them"
(HOLY BIBLE) Luke 24:30
"And they went and told it unto the residue (of the disciples), NEITHER BELEIVED they them" (HOLY BIBLE) Mark 16:13
The apostles refused to believe that Jesus was alive. And he lived the rest of his life in hiding because he was afraid of the Jews. He probably died not too long after from the spear wound.
And still today Christians refuse to believe the truth. What a shame.
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Name: Wes Boll •
Date: 03/05/07 20:19 |
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A: I love to read but never could make sense of all that begot and begone stuff,still waiting to hear from the person in charge of removing the bones from the boxes and burying them????Godda know where them bones are at,are they lost or is someone hiding them from the good old 1980"s
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Name: DATRUTH •
Date: 03/05/07 20:42 |
A: After the due greetings of "Shaloam", Jesus begins calming the disciples' fear for taking him to be a ghost. He says:
"Behold (have a look at) my hands and my feet, that it is I myself (I am the same fellow, man!): handle me and see; for A SPIRIT has no flesh and bones, as you see me have. . .
And he showed them his hands and his feet." (HOLY BIBLE) Luke 24:39-40
The disciples were "overjoyed and wondered", what could have happened? They had thought that he was dead and gone, but here with them stands their Master, with flesh and bones — with 100% characteristics of a man ALIVE!
To assure them further, to calm their shaky nerves, he asks: "Have you here any meat', i.e. anything to eat? "And they gave him a piece of broiled fish and of a honeycomb, and he took it, and DID EAT before them."
(HOLY BIBLE) Luke 24:41-43
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Name: KRS •
Date: 03/05/07 20:42 |
A: Christians don't refuse to believe the truth, but we do require a decent argument, you haven't provided one. While the apostles fled from the garden of Gethsemene, both John and Peter followed closely enough to know what was going on at the trial of Jesus, and at least John was present at the crucifixion (since Jesus charged him to take care of His mother while on the cross). Also, the amount of time it took for crucifixion is somewhat variable, due in part to the torture and beatings that took place before the crucifixion (and in a few cases, the condemned men did not actually survive to be crucified).
Second, the Scriptures do not say He was resurrected spiritually, but that he was resurrected bodily - which means your point from Hebrews 9:27 doesn't combine with mark 16:11 or Luke 24:30 in the way you assume it does. Your point only works if you are assuming certain presuppositions that haven't been proven.
You can believe what you want, but your case is far from compelling.
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Name: DATRUTH •
Date: 03/05/07 20:55 |
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A: IF a man pronounced dead at a car accident scene comes to life at the hospital would you call him Resurrected Bodily or would you say that he never died ??
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Name: Ouroboros •
Date: 03/06/07 5:05 |
A: Jesus was not held up on the cross as was normally done. His body was left to collapse on itself instead of being held by straps at the arms.
This made breathing very difficult I would assume, and caused many complications.
Lets also not forget that he was also severely beaten and pushed to physical exhaustion with the carrying of the cross in the desert heat.
Oh ya, there is also this business of a spear being thrown into his side.
I'd love to hear where you found this information about jesus living in hiding. Fantasy.
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Name: lovefishn •
Date: 03/06/07 6:34 |
A: It was very common practice that in Jesus times, anyone who died on the cross, also had their legs broken to speed up death. Jesus's legs were not broken. The guards were also gambling in the near area of the cross, and I think it's very possible that there was some intervention by Caesar, or the quard who may have won a bet to save Jesus's life and pierced the side of Jesus, to fake Jesus's death, long enough to be taken off the cross and out of harms way. Jesus admitted he used fabels as a way of teaching. Being a Son of God could have also meant he was the first leader of the Christian Church. I've spent time throughout my life studying why Jesus was resurected. One also has to take into account common sense.
If anyone believed in God enough, they can rightfully call themself a Son of God. Jesus was a great teacher and spoke of only peace, love, and a lot of things that were taught in the 60's. Rome, Israel, and that entire area then had seen a lot of termoil. One had to have great faith to survive at all.
Also, I have seen the symbol that is above the outside above the entrance to the tomb. It looks very much like part of the symbol on money and a symbol that is much like one I saw in a book titled, Secrets of the Masons. I found it several times in another larger Mason book, Ancient Secrets of the Masons. These books show mostly symbols and shows various secrets of mythology.
I honestly believe that this must be the tomb, if not for the family names but all the other evidence is just too outstanding. So far, I have not seen any reasonable answers as to why this could not be the real tomb of the Holy Family that is better than the reasons why it is.
I am proud of the team who found such a wonderful thing to find in a world of such termoil and war, and hate. Maybe he is resurected again in a way, something a lot of people have been waiting for.
Great Job!!!
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Name: sgtdmski •
Date: 03/06/07 8:24 |
A: One problem with this theory is the description in the Bible of when Christ's side was pierced blood and water poured out. This is an accurate description of what occurs when one dies, the blood liquid components begin to separate from the solid components. If one looks critically at what is being said, blood and water, one can see that what the author sees is the blood cells - hence the blood, and the plasma - hence the water.
Kinda of tough to overcome that one.
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Name: DATRUTH •
Date: 03/06/07 15:07 |
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A: Sarge, if you rest your belief on just blood and water then you are on very thin ice. We must remember that the bible is not written first hand or by any of the apostles. These books were most likely written by Scribes long after the apostles were gone. And not to mention the editing that went into creating the king James Version and problems with translating into other languages.
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Name: KRS •
Date: 03/07/07 3:17 |
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A: Actually, DaTruth, that's not proven (that it wasn't written by the apostles, its assumed) and its not true that the New Testament wasn't written long after their time. The Synoptic gospels are dated to AD 50-60 by conservatives or to around AD 80 by liberals, which means eyewitnesses were alive when they were written. Due to quotations in the early Church fathers, its impossible to argue that they were written later than the first century.
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Name: Jack D Viau •
Date: 03/07/07 3:57 |
A: You have to be a idiot to think like that. How long do you think you could live nail it to a cross?
Jack
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Name: Historian •
Date: 03/07/07 14:37 |
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A: Datruth, you exhibit a level of logic attained by few. We have no way of knowing the true specifics of the Crucifixion. Each group of people interprets the event according to their emotional needs or lack of emotional involvement. There is compelling evidence against his having died on the cross. Add that Jesus' blood flowed; therefore, his heart was still pumping. Add that Jewish law required that the crucified men had to be removed from the cross before the Jewish Sabbath commenced, dead or alive. Add that the memories of events that happened half a century or more before anyone wrote them down are necessarily fuzzy and have been colored by superstition, popular folklore, and so on. Nevertheless, it is hard for people to consider that they might have been mislead and mistaken, so they tend to protest vigorously, hoping that stubbornness will prevail over logic. To the Christian, it should be what Jesus taught that matters, not the specifics of his death or burial. Jesus believed in truth. Let's follow the evidence and see where this leads.
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Name: KRS •
Date: 03/07/07 16:32 |
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A: The reference to the blood pouring out doesn't necessarily require that the heart was still pumping, your analysis would require a more precise wording in the Greek than is actually present in the text. Several doctors who have examined the passage have noted that spear thrusts (this probably wasn't a pair of pin-pricks) would likely have puncutred tissues where the blood had settled, and begun to separate and this would likely have given the effect described.
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Name: Ouroboros •
Date: 03/08/07 3:23 |
A: The problem with arm chair prophets, virtual philosophers, and self trained 20 something theologians , is that there is a very clear disconnect with reality. Getting beaten, suffering from dehydration, exhaustion, probably heat stroke, being nailed to a piece of wood and hanging, hardly able to breath for hours, and then getting your side pierced with a sharp spear....gets brushed aside by these conspiracy addicts.
This is a very serious movie, with very serious implications.
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Name: KRS •
Date: 03/08/07 6:23 |
A: Ouroboros,
Well put.
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Name: DATRUTH •
Date: 03/09/07 0:31 |
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A: When drowning a man will even clutch a straw.... I am not saying that What Jesus taught is being questioned here. All I'm saying is that you should have an open mind about the narration of his story told by other men.
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Name: DATRUTH •
Date: 03/09/07 0:57 |
A: "..Jesus himself stood in their midst, and said unto them, Peace be unto you...But they were terrified, and supposing that they were seeing a spirit... And he said unto them,.. 'Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me and see; for a spirit has no flesh and bones, as you see me have'... And showed them his hands and feet... And while they yet believed not for joy and wondered, he said unto them, 'Have ye here any meat?'.. And they gave him a piece of broiled fish, and of a honeycomb... And he took it, and did eat before them." (Luke 24:36-43)
Why would Jesus have a need to eat if he was resurrected? A resurrencted man has no need for food. and he is clearly showing them that he is not dead. He never mentions that he is resurrected but to the contrary.
Jesus himself says that once a body is resurrected 'neither shall they die any more' (Luke 20:36) .. person becomes a spirit and cannot die so has no need for sustinence
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Name: KRS •
Date: 03/09/07 1:37 |
A: Actually, I'm very objective (I am beginning to dislike the term openminded, because the more I see the term around here, I am beginning to think it means abandoning ones critical thinking apparatus). I've worked through the issues with the narrations. Your cherrypicking - and that is always an error. You can't establish a theory, and then pick passages that work with the theory and argue that what doesn't fit with the theory isn't accurate. If you are going to reject inspiration (which I don't) then you have to establish some type of criteria for what passages you choose to accept as accurate and which ones you don't. You're not applying a critical methodology here. The text implies a bodily resurrection, not a spiritual resurrection, and your theological construction is pretty poor as well.
As for eating, no one has stated that Christ had to eat; that doesn't indicate that He couldn't eat.
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Name: Achaney •
Date: 03/09/07 8:03 |
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A: It's funny how that two of the world's biggest religions, Judaism and Muslims, have always said that Jesus never died on the cross.
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Name: BlessedChildofGod333 •
Date: 03/09/07 10:54 |
A: You have got to be kidding.... Even the Roman's (you do remember them right... the guys who took him, beat him and then made him drag his own cross up the mountain.... nailed him to it then poked him to make sure that he was dead) Even those freaken Romans were reported to say, He's dead!
Care of the Body of Jesus
JOHN 19, V31
31 Then the Jews, because it was the day of preparation, so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
32 So the soldiers came, and broke the legs of the first man and of the other who was crucified with Him;
33 but coming to Jesus, when they saw that He WAS ALREADY DEAD, they did not break His legs.
34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out.
35 And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you also may believe.
36 For these things came to pass to fulfill the Scripture, "NOT A BONE OF HIM SHALL BE BROKEN."
37And again another Scripture says, "THEY SHALL LOOK ON HIM WHOM THEY PIERCED."
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Name: BlessedChildofGod333 •
Date: 03/09/07 10:59 |
A: NO SERIOUSLY...... OKAY... LETS LOOK AT SOME OTHER FACTS....
MANY PEOPLE SAW THE DEAD BODY OF JESUS.....
BACK TO JOHN 19
38 After these things (THE LIST PASSAGE ABOVE)
Joseph of Arimathea,
being a disciple of Jesus, but a secret one for fear of the Jews, asked Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus; and Pilate granted permission. So he came and took away His body.
39 Nicodemus,
who had first come to Him by night, also came, bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about a hundred pounds weight.
40 So they took the body of Jesus and bound it in linen wrappings with the spices, as is the burial custom of the Jews.
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Name: BlessedChildofGod333 •
Date: 03/09/07 11:04 |
A: THE GUY WHO PAID FOR THE TOMB,
THE FRIEND OF JESUS,
Joseph of Arimathea,
WHO KNEW HIM VERY WELL SAW THE DEAD BODY OF JESUS
GIVE ME A FREAKEN BREAK PEOPLE.... DO YOUR RESEARCH DON'T LISTEN TO 'historians' WHO HAVEN'T LEFT THE LIBRARY!
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Name: vvk •
Date: 11/26/07 6:26 |
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A: Should we bring it back to view.?
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Name: Panluna •
Date: 11/29/07 17:50 |
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A: The word RESSURECTION changed in meaning over the centuries and was interpreted differently by several cultures.
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Name: Jonn •
Date: 01/19/08 3:45 |
A: I was surprise to find out the Jews Talmud (Anti -Christ Book) said about Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. When I compared what the Muslim Quran said about Jesus Christ.
It is the weirdest book (Talmud) I ever read. So how can they get peace and stable life in their country with denying Jesus? They are still paying the price! I am praying to the Lord to give them mercy and revelation. Our precious Jesus Christ gave us peace, salvation, Eternal life, healing to our spirit, soul and flesh. He changed our attitude and perception of this world. I don’t have words to express my deep satisfaction after he changed my life. He is our bride and will come take us to live with Him. Bless be the almighty God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who gave us his only begotten son.
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Name: Panluna •
Date: 01/19/08 19:33 |
A: Jonn,
The Talmud was written centuries before the birth of Jesus and the Qu'ran(Koran) was written 600 plus years after the the crucifiction.
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Name: luke64 •
Date: 01/31/08 22:20 |
A: http://peacetv.in/
Sky channel 823
WorldTV Channel 65
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