Q: Did jesus have a wife..i am kinda new with this whole christianity thing so i was just wondering if jesus had a wife?
Name:Judith •
Date: 06/07/08 0:25
A: Hathan Jillson
for now it is pure speculation. But the odds of him having a wife are getting higher.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 06/07/08 15:58
A: Nathan jillson,
If you would like to read a novel BASED on the gospel of Mary Magdelene then I highly recommend THE EXPECTED ONE by Kathleen McGowan.You will get your answer and many others from the author's 25 years of research.Enjoy reading the book.I liked it better than the DaVinci Code. Even though it is not as fast paced as Dan Brown's novel Kathleen McGowan's book covers other angles and explains more about Mary Magdelene and her personal life with Jesus.
Name:Judith •
Date: 06/07/08 16:12
A: Panluna
Thank you , I will look for that book. It would appear that this web site was abandoned by those who worked on this project. But I still have my own personal experiences and they are not explainable. I have way to many for me personally to ignore.
What I wrote about the Mirror has meaning to me, under Ka. The reason is , it happened to me. I am not talking about sex, I am saying I looked at the other person and saw Me, as if in a mirror.
Name:Sassy •
Date: 06/07/08 20:15
A: Judith - what you say about Ka and the mirror, reminded me of this saying of Jesus' from Gospel of Thomas:
"He who will drink from my mouth will become like me. I myself shall become he, and the things that are hidden will be revealed to him."
Name:Panluna •
Date: 06/07/08 20:37
A: Judith,
I don't think they abandoned this project more like they moved on to do other things.If you have any questions after reading every facts scroll down to the contact us at the bottom of the page.
There is still a real big controversy going on but I personally feel based on the facts and evidence presented that this is the real tomb of Jesus and his family and I learned a great deal about rational thinking and dealing with arguements for and against the truth revealed that was hidden by historical half-truths based on the churches' s power struggles.
It does not diiminish the importance of faith.Having faith based on believing the truthful facts is more important than believing a lie.And Reality is Truth's greatest ally.
Name:sam_torrance1990 •
Date: 09/11/08 14:45
A: Jesus did not have a wife. Look out for Living Hope's documentary on the talpiot tomb. It is coming soon! [www.lhvm.org]
Name:sam •
Date: 09/12/08 0:41
A: Was Jesus married?. Of cource HE was married. Jesus was born a Jew , and died as a Jew, and maybe He was a rabbi, and according to the traditios at His time men should marry at young age, and Jesus had to follow the tradition.
THE SPREAD OF LIES THROUGHOUT THE CHRISTIAN HISTORY.
IN THE BIGINNING.
PAUL CAME WITH BIG LIE.....HIS VISION !!!.......WHY?
Everyone knows who was PAUL, and when & where he saw his vision.
Jesus never met this fellow, and Jesus wasn't there to stop him from bringing lies about HIM and everything else.
Paul brought a LOT of good talks in his many letters to his friends to COVER UP the things which he was after, the thing which was his main purpose to achieve.
1 cor 9:23 I [PAUL] do all things for the sake of the gospel, SO I [PAUL] MAY BECOME A FELLOW PARTAKER OF IT.
PAUL invented the the SON OF GOD formula.
Jesus said: "WHEN YOU LIFT UP THE SON OF MAN ...THE SON OF MAN.... THEN YOU WILL KNOW THAT I AM HE ."
Jesus said.... I AM THE SON OF MAN 89 times in the 4 gospels, and Jesus is not a liar, but Paul is.
PAUL and his followers run the churches from the biginning, and lies were created from the biginning, and the gospels are full of lies which were created by people whom all their work is done to bring in more people and the church to grow, the never respected THE TRUTH OR THE LOGIC.
They wrote that Jesus was lifted to heaven and sat on the right hand of God.....is that a big lie?
and they wrote that all the stars from heaven will fall on the earth and then Jesus will come on the clouds....is that onther big lie, and there are many .
Retired bishop John S. Spong wrote:
"THE GOSPELS CANNOT BE TRUSTED TO BE RELIABLE."
Do you think that the old and knowledgeable bishop doesn't know the facts, and why he should lie ?.
Then , THE TRINITY FORMULA CAME, 380 years after Jesus death , and after Paul's FORMULA OF THE "SON OF GOD" !!!!.
Did anyone ever asked himself this question: why Paul miss the trinity things, and he was the only person to visit the third heaven, and see and talk with Jesus?, so that a Roman Emperor and a bunch of bishops to discover the truth about Jesus?.
WHY the churches and their followers use MORE of the words of Paul, as if Jesus words has not much value in them?
The spread of lies started with Paul and kept going and growing until this day. We all know the history of the churches and the bishops and the popes, and their hard work to cover the truth and to keep their followers in line by the word "EXCOMMUNICTE" & "IF YOU ARE NOT WITH US THEN YOU ARE AGAINST US AND WE WILL FIGHT YOU...",
THE CHRISTIAN FEAR THE CHURCHES, SO THEY CONNOT BE FREE TO TALK THEIR OWN THINKING !!!,
YOU CAN SEE THAT CLEAR IN THE US PRESIDENTIAL ELLECTION.
In the 21 st century, and the people who talk about the freedom are not free to speak their on mine not even those who are on the top , then what about the the ordinary poor people?.
God bless you all.
I wonder
Name:Judith •
Date: 09/15/08 19:20
A: Hello all
Dear Sam
In the New Testament it does say that Paul's Teacher told his students to leave the Christians alone. He knew of Jesus and so did his students. Paul admitted he was behind the death of many Christians and If I remember right he stated that he held the cloaks of the Roman Solders who stone Steven and James to death. That means Paul may have given the orders to do so, at the very least he did participate by holding cloaks.
Name:sam •
Date: 09/18/08 1:23
A: Dear Judith, Hello
I wonder.... those are my last words in the previous post, and always I keep wondering HOW can so many people follow a religion called [Christianity] while they all know the truth about it is dented history from the time of Paul until this day !.
PAUL'S LIES BEEN ACCEPTED AND PUT IN THE GOSPELS AS THE WORDS OF GOD....BURNING THE BOOKS [ MANY OTHER GOSPELS] AND THE PEOPLE WHO KEEP THEM... CREATING CHURCHES AS PALACES FOR THE POPES, BISHOPS, CARDINAL INSTEAD OF PLACES TO WORSHIPS GOG ONLY.
I think many people in this age, the age when all the truth are available to most of them showing the truth about all the bad things that occurs in that shameful history of this religion and they keep following it blindely, I can compare them to the political parties of today.
It does not matter how bad was last 8 years of the repablicans their followers will not change and the same for the other parties. it is not about how it is good for the people but all about how it is good for the party only.
I wonder..... HOW can people be so silly and stupid when they shose between the party and the country and then they stand for the party ignoring the country which is suppose to be the fist thing that matter for the people, and it is the same for the Christian religion, they chose the churches instead of choosing God and His Messengers and the welfare of all the human on the planet !!!.
I wonder.... How a retire bishop write that the bible is full of contradictions and errors, and the gospels cannot be truste to be reliable, and he for sure knows the full history of the churches keep those books and preach the message of Paul and the churches to the blinded christians, can we call that is a wrong things and a siily things etc., and there are many who are attached to christianity and have the same knowledge about it as the bishop !!! ?.
God bless you Judith.
Name:Judith •
Date: 09/18/08 5:28
A: Dear Sam
It is not just Christianity that abuses many if not all have done the very same as Christianity. I am not sure Jesus actually had a Church, but said every individual should become a church. That is more of an Eastern Philosophy.
All Religions have been guilty of the same .
Then , THE TRINITY FORMULA CAME, 380 years after Jesus death , and after Paul's FORMULA OF THE "SON OF GOD" !!!!.
Nope it was a much more Ancient Philosophy and Christianity borrowed it. There is and was a practice that is not welcomed by most religions because it would take to much time and most have to work for a living. In those respects, people would prefer to demonize that practice to hide the fact that they can't do it. All the Spiritual Gifts Paul gave and tried to explain are in the Chakra System and also defined in the Tibetian Book of Living and Dying, and may also be in the Egyptian Book of the Dead and may also be in the Akasic Records.
Name:sam •
Date: 09/18/08 18:02
A: Dear Judith, HI.
You said: "All Religions have been guilty of the same ."
All religions....???.
Christi-anity......Jewdaism.....Isla-m- - These are the religions.
Christians.....-.....Jews............Muslim-s- - Those are the people who claim that they follow the religions. They are religious but not the religion.
Many times on this forums and on the N.G. forums, I explained the differences between those terms the 'RELIGION' & the "RELIGIOUS'.
I wonder .... how people, even the well educated ones do not know the differences between these terms, and they throw their judgments on the religion while the fault came from the religious , the people!!!.
RELIGION, Is the TEACHING that been brought by someone who claim that he is carying a message as Moses , Jesus , Muhammad etc., and the teachings were WRITTEN/ recorded in BOOK/BOOKS as Torah , Gospels , Quran etc.,
RELIGIOUS, are the PEOPLE who claim that they follow the TEACHING / THE BOOKS, but if we look closely we will find that the people are following their own interpretation to what came in the book/books.
FIRST, we should not claim the gilt of the people on the book/books, the religion.
SECOND, we should analyze the book/books in a logical and scientific way, to come to the truth, since we have many of them, to find out which of them give us true information supported by examples on things that we do not know before that time {as the creation}, that because as the religious people believe in them as they are the words of GOD, and God will not tells lies or give wrong informations.
THIRD, anyone who claims that he find the truth by looking at his book only is a short sited one, all the books that came to represent teaching to worship God and been written long time ago should studied and analized, then people will find which one hold the truth.
If we do that, instead fo fighting and hating each other IN THE NAME OF THE BOOK/ THE RELIGION, then maybe we will be able to understand each other teachings, and apreciate the books that came to each us LOVE AND PEACE.
God bless you.
Name:Sassy •
Date: 09/19/08 16:42
A: There is no reality except the one contained within us. This is why so many people live such an unreal life. They take the images outside them for reality and never allow the world within to assert itself.
[Hermann Hesse]
Let go of hundreds of years
and relax completely
Open your hands and walk, innocent
Thousands of words
myriad interpretations
are only to free you from obstructions
If you want to know the undying person in the hut
don't separate from this skin bag here and now
[Shitou]
Under the trees
among the rocks
a thatched hut
Verses and sacred commentaries
live there together
I'll burn the books
I carry in my bag
but how can I forget
the verses written in my gut?
[Ikkyu]
Be soft in your practice
Think of the method as a
fine silvery stream
not a raging waterfall
Follow the stream
have faith in its course
It will go its own way
meandering here
trickling there
It will find the grooves
the cracks
the crevices
Just follow it
never let it out of your sight
It will take you.
[Sheng-yen]
In original nature
There is no this or that
The Great Round Mirror
Has no likes or dislikes
[Seung Sahn]
Great Doubt
Most of the work with a koan takes place alone
while sitting zazen, because in reality there's
nothing anyone can give us. There's nothing that
we lack. Each one of us is perfect and complete,
lacking nothing. That's why it is said that there
are no Zen teachers and nothing to teach. But this
truth must be realized by each one of us. Great
faith, great doubt, and great determination are
three essentials for that realization. It is a
boundless faith in oneself and in the ability to
realize oneself and make oneself free, and a deep
and penetrating doubt which asks: Who am I? What
is life? What is truth? What is God? What is
reality? This great faith and great doubt are in
dynamic tension with each other, and work to
provide the real cutting edge of koan
practice...when also accompanied by great
determination.. we have at our disposal the power
necessary to break through our delusive way of
thinking and realize the full potential of our
lives.
[John Daido Loori]
If you want to perceive and understand objectively, just don't allow yourself to be confused by people. Detach from whatever you find inside or outside yourself and only then will you attain liberation. When you are not entangled in things, you pass through freely to autonomy.
[Zen Master Lin-chi]
I'd like to
Offer something
To help you;
But in the Zen School,
We don't have a single thing!
[Zen Master Ikkyu]
Name:Judith •
Date: 09/19/08 20:46
A: Hello Sam and Thank you so much Sassy
Sam, I have read what is called Holy Books and Prayed as I did it. I have seen with in all where God commands the death of other Tribes. Now, you may think that is Holy , but that is just one more interpretation. I see how in the Book of Abraham , he married and called his wife, his sister when in a bind. Wasn't he called a Prophet, and was Noah really in a flood and missing a whole year in his age just after that Flood, Yes , I did read them and when Jesus said "Before Abraham, I am" he didn't say before Adam "I am" and could well have meant . Before Abraham , I stood, and that would more than likely be King of Salem , Melcheizdeck. Many want so much to keep these primitive Books and make them adjust to their own system of things , and guess what "We are in the 21st century and those laws , have to be put into effect the correct way for our time. How and who determines that , well many of those are maladjusted , so I just keep my faith, in between my ears where I say my prayers ( my closet) .
There is no way I can claim Saint Hood but I can say for a fact that when I got on my knees and said " Jesus , there are to many Religions, To many factions in the Same Religions, to many opinions, so You teach me." Not long after I had a Blue light flash in my mind and that ball of light floated over our neighborhood and I could see from it . It gave me a stange feeling of Pitty and Compassion, and I know know that is called the Shechina or Shekina . No, I am not so good , I just wanted to hear truth for a change.
Name:Holly •
Date: 09/22/08 0:25
A: Of course not he was the holy one he was here for one purpose to give us a chance to salvation only through him we are able to enter in heaven. He didn;t have to follow no ones tradition and get married like a another person wrote here thats nonsense . Please always remember that dont disbelief in our holy bible (the word of GOD). Theses doubts in jesus all come from the evil one who puts doubt in our hearts.
Name:sam •
Date: 09/22/08 1:17
A: Hello, Judith,
This is a quote from your post:
" Many want so much to keep these primitive Books and make them adjust to their own system of things , and guess what "We are in the 21st century and those laws , have to be put into effect the correct way for our time. How and who determines that ....."
"THESE PRIMITIVE BOOKS . {And you ment the 'Bible, Gospels and the Quran...and I will add to them the Hindu & the Buddhist books, because those are accepted by millions as great books too !?"
MY QUESTION TO YOU, What makes the books PRIMITIVE?.
As for me, I do see that a book any book been written hundreds of years ago, is good [advanced] or primitive IS by the information and the stories and the laws which brought within, since a book is no mor than informations and stories and laws brought to us mostly by the people of the dark ages when wknowledge were very limited and PRIMITIVE, and you should not forget that their world was small and the earth is center of their world and it is a flat peace of land and they believe that the star will fall on the earth and still there will be cloud for Jesus to ride and come to earth and the people will survive all that !, and they do believe that God came to earth, which is the only place He got , and God came to walk with Abraham !.
Now we know the truth and the facts that the earth is much smaller than a grain of sand when compared to the universe OUR WORLD TODAY.
And Saying that earth was created before the sun and the moon and the stars and plant and some form of life came before the creation of the son. those examples shows us that the books which brings such informations are for sure primitive books, and no doubt about it.
The ONLY BOOK which gave us true information about our earth and the creation , and many other scientific information which wasn't known to man before hundreds of years ago is the QURAN, and that makes the Quran an advanced book and not a primitive book , so please do not mix all the books in one pot together ,and undrestand what you are reading. It is not about Christanity or Islam , it is about the truth and the false, and we cannot switch the truth. The Quran was written and recorded in a book which never changed in the last 1400 years. there is only ONE QURAN, but there are so many different gospels, and their words and stories been changed during the years, and of course you can see that in the last few years when NAG HAMADE brought to life what was hidden for centuries, and the finding of the tomb of Jesus is another example, both which broght evidence that the stories in the gospels cannot be trusted to be true.
With every new discoveries the churches and the Christians try to "make them adjust to their own system of things" and that is clear from the way they change things so that they keep the primitive thinking accepted to the mass by bringing philosophical empty ideas to prove they are right.
The Quran never changed and no need to adjust anything in it.
Here some of the information that came with the Quran before 1400 years ago:
65:12 IT IS GOD WHO CREATED SEVEN HEAVENS AND OF THE EARTH, LIKE OF THEM.
---- Judith , please go to NASA & the Hubble scope sites and see for yourself how many planets been discovered in the last few years, and about the billion of stars in our galaxy, and the billions of galaxies in our world , our universe. as for the gospels and the Bible there is only the earth, the sun ,the moon, and countless of small lighting objects they call them stars [those the ones been mentioned in the bible & the gospels]. here what the gospel tells us:
Mark 13:25/26 And THE STARS WILL BE FALLING FROM HEAVEN, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken. THEN they will see THE SON OF MAN [JESUS] COMING IN CLOUDS with great power and glory.
WOW, that was a great story, of that what will happen in the future, after many thousands of years. I do not blame Mark for writing such an atractive story, since he thought that the stars so small lighting object in the sky, but I do think that those who believe today and in this time when the truth are known about our universe, and accept those as the words of God , has problems in differentiates between the truth and the false, and has no knowledge about the term LOGIC.
38:88 AND YOU WILL SURELY KNOW THE TRUTH OF ITS INFORMATION * AFTER TIME.
---- AFTER TIME the truth start to come to us, as it was mentioned 1400 years ago.
29:20 0 MUHAMMAD, SAY TO THEM, “GO TRAVEL THROUGH THE EARTH AND OBSERVE HOW THE CREATION BEGAN.”
---None of the other holy books asked the people to look for the truth about God creation, but on the contrary, they punished who dare, we remember GALILEO.
---- Also, that is what makes the Quran an advanced book, because the other book were so primitive that they bring false information and not allow people to think or advance in knowledge. Judith, if that is not right , please bring to me what prove otherwise.
21:30 HAVE THOSE WHO DISBELIEVED NOT CONSIDERED THAT THE HEAVEN AND EARTH WERE A JOINED ENTITY, AND WE SEPARATE THEM.
{The BIG BANG theory}
51:47 AND THE HEAVEN WE CONSTRUCTED WITH STRENGTH AND INDEED WE ARE ITS EXPANDER.
{the expanding universe theory}
21:33 AND IT IS HE WHO CREATED THE NIGHT AND THE DAY AND THE SUN AND THE MOON; ALL HEAVENLY BODIES, IN AN ORBIT ARE SWIMMING.
{Thanks to NASA & the Hubble who show us the truth, the truth of what the Quran came with - AFTER TIME}
27:88 AND YOU SEE THE MOUNTAINS, THINKING THEM STATIONARY, WHILE THEY ARE PASSING AS PASSING OF CLOUDS.
{the earth is rotating around its axis in high speed, and so is the mountains, but such information were not known to people of that era.}
Q-21:32 And we made the sky a PROTECTED CEILING, but they, from its signs are turning away.
{we know this fact today}
29:43 AND THESE EXAMPLES WE REPRESENT TO THE PEOPLE, BUT NONE WILL UNDERSTAND THEM EXCEPT THOSE OF KNOWLEDGE.
{That is true}
41:53 WE WILL SHOW THEM OUR SIGNS IN THE HORIZONS AND WITHIN THEMSELVES UNTIL IT BECOMES CLEAR TO THEM THAT IT IS THE TRUTH, BUT IT IS NOT SUFFICIENT CONCERNING YOUR LORD THAT HE IS, OVER ALL THINGS, A WITNESS?.
I WONDER, how people accept the false which came in the other primitive books and do not accept the truth which came in the Quran, and accepting the words of the pope and bishops and not accepting the word of God !!!.
There are many other examples which cover a lot of subjests, people should read and analyze any book before giving their wrong opinion about it.
Here are two verses, and they are not the words of man.
40:57 The creation of the heavens and earth is greater than the creation of mankind, but most of the peole do not know.
36:81-83 Is not HE who created the heavens and the earth Able to create the likes of them ? Yes, [it is so]; and HE is the knowing creator. HIS command is only when HE intends a thing that He says to it "BE" and it is. So exalted is HE in whose hand is the realm of all things, and to HIM you will be returned.
Judith, I hope that you will agrre that those words are the words which show us the power of God over all his creation. I don not see any primitive thing in what it brought to us. I do believe in God and HIS power and I hope that you do.
Dear Judith, if you like I will bring to you many other scientific examples, which came in the book which you claim it as a primitive book.
God bless you.
Name:Judith •
Date: 09/22/08 10:02
A: hello again Sam
I have not read the whole QURAN but those chapters I did read, are the same or almost the same as the Bible which is much older. By saying Primitive , I am saying you can not see the eye contact, the hand gesture, or know how the words were used, no I don't agree , sorry Sam . I do however agree that the Hindu Books are also Primitive and the same applies , you can't know that generations gestures, and meanings of all that is there. I also agree that the Dark ages did much damage to all written materials, but that is still being done today, and not just by Christians. They are not the only ones who are changing.
The stars will be falling from heaven? There has always been falling stars and that may well mean something else more mystical, again there is no knowing what was actually being said. Stars could well mean Enlightened Ones, as it appears in the Book of Revelations. Most are saying the same thing in their own way, due to the cultural differences, and or lack of expression.
And for the Seven Heavens, yes there are Planets spoken of in the Bible, and constellations also. Again there is no way to know each cultures ancient way of expression..
Bless You Also Sam
Name:Judith •
Date: 09/22/08 18:56
A: Dear Sam
I might add, that I read up to the birth and life of Ismeal and Issac, and it was there that I decided it was a dispute between half brothers . I put it down there. I have nothing to gain from family fueds
Name:Sassy •
Date: 09/23/08 4:51
A: The Quran is just as primitive and un-scientific as any other of the so-called 'holy' books. Creationism in whatever religion is NOT science; it's based on faith and fantasy, on myth, not facts.
from "Letter of Debate: Religion vs. Modern Science.":
"there is no sura in Quran that depicts that the earth moves round the sun. On the contrary, everywhere in the Quran we find the fixed picture of earth [see Fatir (35:41), An-Naml (27:61), Luqman (31:10), Al-Baqara (2:22), An-Nahl (16:15) etc.] There is no sura or any kind of indication in Quran that supports the common fact that earth moves or rotates. And it is not unusual. The time when Quran revealed was a very primitive age, and people at that age could not visualize the movement of earth. That's
why we do not find any sura containing the movement of earth in Quran.
It is not true only for Quran, rather this picture is very true for any kind of primitive religious books.
In many places in Quran it alludes to the fact that earth is flat and mountains are like poles, which create a balance so that earth does not tilt. In chapter 88:17,20 it is recorded.... "Will they not regard the camels how they are created...... and earth how it spread?" So that in page 509, the Jalalan says, "In this phrase 'how it spread', he denotes that earth is flat. All the scholars of Islam agree upon this. It is NOT round as the physicists claim.
History also shows that in the twelfth-century Arabian scientist Ibn al-Haitham asserted that the earth was spherical, not flat. But His work was castigated as heretical and his books were burned, as it does not support Quran. In 1993, the supreme religious authority of Saudi Arabia, Sheik Abdel-Aziz Ibn Baaz, issued an edict, or fatwa, declaring that the world is flat. Anyone of the round persuasion does not believe in God and should be punished.
Due to all of the erroneous verses stated in Bible, Quran and other religious books…. even in this progressive 20th century, some people dogmatically believe that our earth is NOT round, but flat. They have formed International Flat Earth Society (http://www.flat-earth.org/).
Let’s again come to the “scientific claims” of Quran. I have found that Quran has many primitive and erroneous thoughts and concepts about many things. In many verses of Quran, Allah described sky as a canopy (2: 22) and it is Allah who holds the sky upon our head by unseen pillars. But now we know from our modern scientific knowledge that Sky has no physical entity it’s just the ultimate limit of human eyesight. -which was not known by ancient people of Quranic age. Allah definitely is not ignorant; He is omniscient and omnipotent.
Still, Why does Allah need an unseen pillar to prevent the sky (which has no physical entity) from falling upon people's head? Doesn’t it eventually conclude the fact that the book contains only primitive, immature and unscientific thoughts of Arab?
If we read Quran critically, we will find that there is no scientific miracle at
all. On the other hand, the book is full of errors, ancient/primitive beliefs,
scientific misconceptions and contradictions. Yet we always find some religious scholar arguing that Quran talks about Big Bang, Nebula, Human cloning...all advanced 20th century scientific knowledge.
I generally answer the argument just mentioning again that Quran is not
supernatural. It is the clever interpreters who always try to give a different
meaning in it. And it is only after something happens that the interpreters
create a loud noise. In fact, there is no sura in Quran which depicts Big-Bang or other 20th century scientific theory---it is just some clever interpreters who by force try to relate some suras with Big-Bang and Nebula to misguide common people. Lets have an example.
[al-Anbiya' 21:30] Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, ....
Some Muslim interpreters tries to relate this sura with Big-Bang. But does it really depict any fact about Big-bang at all? Lets look the next verses to understand the Quranic image ...
[al-Anbiya' 21:30] ... the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them…,
Pikthall [al-Anbiya' 21:31] And We have placed in the earth firm hills
[mountains] lest it quake with them, ...
Pikthall [al-Anbiya' 21:32] And we have made the sky a roof withheld (from them)..
.
Shakir [ar-Ra`d 13:2] Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that you see ...
It establishes a very primitive image on the relationship between the heavens and earth. After Allah raise up the heavens on unseen pillars, and put down the earth, he put the mountains on the earth to not quake,
(like putting a heavy thing on a piece of paper not to fly?)! Allah make the sky a roof withheld to not fall on people head?! How he do so? By putting the heavens on unseen pillars!! Is it supported really by 20th century modern scientific knowledge?!
There is nothing at all in this verse that can relate with Big-bang. If the
verse really relate with Big Bang, then where is the explosion? This verse does not show any kind of explosion at all. So how can it be related with Big Bang?
I will request the believers to think logically, rather than trying to (by force) believe that "Everything stated in Quran is wholly scientific and miraculous". I see many frivolous attempts by so called religious scientists to link planetary nebulae with Quranic verses ("When the sky is torn apart, so it was like a red rose, like oinment"---Ar Rahaman).
This is undoubtedly a flawed attempt that is often made by apologetics of all other religion, some more than others. Just to illustrate, still there are many unanswered questions relating to universe. For example (~Quote from an article of Aparthib Zaman), we don’t know at this time whether the universe is closed, open or flat. That's why no religious scholar dares to make any prediction based on any revelation now.
But if the answer is ever found out by science (say, by the attempt of non-muslim scientist Stephen Hawkings for example), I am sure some Muslim scholars will evidently dig out some vague verses from Quran and will claim "see --- Quran mentioned this scientific truth almost 1400 years ago! See how miraculous our book is!".
The resemblances are always found AFTER the fact has been occurred,
never been found BEFORE the scientific discovery.
Some Islamists are really desperate nowadays to prove Muhammad a Biologist, Embryologist, Cosmologist, Chemist and theologist.....while it is quite true that being a citizen of a very primitive age, he (Muhammad) had a lacking of basic reasoning of science. I wish to put here one of the example. The ancient people at that age had a severe problem to solve --"where does Sun exactly stay at night !!!". Let’s quote from Hadith about Muhammad’s thought regarding this - "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne of Allah and takes the permission to rise again" [Volume 4 Number 421]. How can those
Islamists defend those words of Muhammad? Does sun really stay underneath the throne of Allah at night? Is this a scientific fact?
Muhammad also showed his ignorance about the scientific facts behind solar eclipses by expressing-"Eclipses of the Sun are the signs from God to frighten Believers" [Volume 2 Number 167]. While Muhammad failed to guess the basic scientific facts behind those natural events, how it is generally claimed that he knew (or predicted) about Big Bang, Nebula, and Gene Technology?
It is not only the Muslim religious scientist, but also the Christian and Hindu scientists dogmatically claim for scientific authenticity for their own religious scriptures respectively.
..In conclusion I must add that early man did not have the knowledge and security, which we can command now. Similarly the future generations who will know more about the conditions in other planets and constellations and perhaps will develop scientific knowledge so as to control age and death, will know more than what we do now. That’s why it is absurd to think that the religious books, which were basically
written by ancient people, are free from any errors and it is more than absurd to think that those books revealed Big bang, Nebula, Relativity, Black hole and other modern scientific knowledge.
When we keep our mind thus open, we find today that the concept of god also arose in response to the needs of curiosity to know the nature of things and events around, to have a moral order and also to the need to express aesthetic cravings. But we have to comprehend that god beliefs no doubt have a negative effect on our today's rational life since they are bolstered through faith instead of evidence. We see faith as being the same as gullibility since both words mean "Acceptance Without Evidence."
Gullibility (or faith) makes it easy for dishonest people to fool us, or rule us. This is how all prophets and god-messengers fooled and ruled common people in past time by using gullibility. Those Religious scientists like Dr. Maurice Bucaille, Dr. Shamsher Ali, Dr. Mrinal Dasgupta adopting the same technique of using gullibility even in this
progressive age. They even try to prove that there is a scientific miracle even in some cruel practices such as Kurbaani, Patha-boli, Hila marriage or Shatidaha (widow burning).
Skepticism and doubt actually can prevent a lot of avoidable misery. The history of religion (with its foundation built on faith), is a history of intolerance and violence.
The most pleasant moments of human history no doubt, have been during times when religious control and influence were in decline."
Name:Sassy •
Date: 09/23/08 5:00
A: From "The Dominist manifesto":
"Only one God, only one way: once one makes that choice, so many other choices become dictated, commanded, preordained. For the real fanatics—the suicide bombers and cross-wielding crusaders—all free will, conscience, and personal morals get subjugated to this dangerous logic of monotheism. Only my God, only my way: monotheists apply the Parable of the Tribes to the religious impulse by forcing everyone they encounter to either fight (thus betraying the peace and good will of one's religion); to flee (thus abandoning the holy earth from which most non-monotheistic religions derive); or to convert (thus becoming righteous
recruits in God the Dominator's army).
Monotheism functions as the fundamental of all fundamentalisms. From the rigid belief in God the Dominator flows an equally rigid adherence to his teachings as revealed in specific writings. While in truth a great deal of editing and all too personal selection goes into which of a body of writings actually represents God's word and, of those writings, exactly how to interpret his meanings in present terms, fundamentalists have no use for such distinctions. They glorify the supposed perfection of the world as God intended and the way it used to be.
They see themselves as divinely chosen to pull the sinning masses back into line. Anyone who does not conform to the writings of a bunch of long-dead middle-eastern men must repent, convert, or suffer extreme sanction. Monotheism leaves neither middle ground nor gray area; whatever does not strictly conform gets terrorized into submission.
As a nation founded by men and women who were themselves fleeing from monotheistic oppression, America has labored from its beginnings to tolerate all gods, religions, and spiritual practices. By separating church and state, the Founders hoped to avoid the overwhelming coercion that occurs when those two institutions agree in dominist thrust. Two centuries later it seems clear that, despite its brave and enlightened birth, America has developed into an ardently Judeo-Christian, monotheistic nation in all of its politics and most of its community life. While other-believers undoubtedly feel safer and have greater freedom in America than most other countries, Buddhists do not run for office, Taoists do not push their opinions from regular seats among the TV punditry, and sports teams do not gather in circles to perform Wiccan rituals.
To the contrary, virtually all legal and political proceedings, as well as most elementary school days, begin at the very least with an invocation of "One nation under God." To the fundamentalists, this does not go nearly far enough; they constantly cavil about America's failings as a monotheist nation and, with utter dominist gall, portray monotheists as victims of even the slightest accommodations to the views or feelings of other-believers.
All aggressive States tend toward monotheism because it provides the ultimate cover for the State-sanctioned violence of war. Nothing creates masses of willing martyrs, ready to storm the bulwarks of evil, better than the wide-spread and deeply-engrained belief that God himself commands the army, directs the battle, and lifts dying straight to heaven. Any personal fears, realpolitik ambiguities, or nagging moral nuances fade before the bright and shining image of God bestowing his exclusive blessings upon the troops. True, the other side usually thinks the same, but that's the genius of monotheism: they're wrong! Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition. God is on our side.
We should never expect dominists to willingly work for women's liberation because the subjugation of women stands side-by-side with militarism, unilateralism, and monotheism as a first tenet of dominism.
For Western and Middle Eastern cultures, the subjugation of women begins in Genesis with "God the Father." The father or male principle appears throughout the Bible as the active, initiating force and sustaining presence for all aspects of the human experience. We find little reference to a mother or female principle, anywhere in the Old Testament, which does not even have a word for Goddess." The New
Testament does have the Virgin Mary, but she acts as a mere mortal in the company of the divine Father and Son. Clearly, the men who wrote the Bible [and other holy books] made certain to establish God as masculine. Though they tell us that God created us in His likeness, in fact quite the opposite occurred.
Having determined God's gender, the first few pages of Genesis go on to cast woman as a subordinate—hardly an afterthought—to man. This biblical story has profoundly affected all of the Jews, Christians, and Moslems who have ever read the Old Testament and considered it the word of God, as well as all of the other people of the world who have found themselves under the domination of one of these three Old Testament religions. In the first few pages of the Bible, the nature of woman as subordinate to man gets divinely cast and forever justified. Remember, she asked for it. For the rest of dominist history, she gets it.
The travails of women, through both the Old and New Testaments, makes such a sorry tale that one wonders how so many can think of the Bible as "the greatest story ever told" or, for that matter, as a holy book. The very people who so revere the Bible would quickly denounce as pornography any book written today that contained so much rape, pillage, murder, bondage, and child abuse. Yet because God himself
demands the constant violence and violation in the Bible, his believers deem it sanctified. Brutality in the name of God the Dominator becomes righteous, even holy, because he commands it. Besides, it's all her fault, anyway.
Any religion that so posits the father/man as a power over the mother/woman invariably becomes a system of domination, of ranking and judging, and of ordained abuse by men against women. This in turn gives credence, and the blessings of God, to the many precepts of dominist culture: only men can serve as priests; only husbands can own property and only sons can inherit; female sexuality brings suffering and sin into the world; above all, man rules over woman and has dominion
over nature. Men rule the world; women serve as helpmeets.
however much a nation might strive to create balanced and equitable gender relations, so long as that nation's underpinnings derive from Old Testament doctrine, the very idea of women's liberation will strike many as utter nonsense, if not terrible blasphemy.
To the fundamentalist, women's real liberation comes in serving the roles defined for them 2,000 years ago in the Bible. The many coveted freedoms of modern women—to take part in all levels of society, including as political and religious leaders; to follow their passions and skills to whatever work most excites them; to receive payments for their efforts equal to the payments men receive for like efforts; to have sovereignty over their bodies; to genuinely cooperate with men in matters of sex, reproduction, and raising children—all of these cherished liberations run starkly counter to biblical doctrine. A nation led by religious fundamentalists can only see women as divinely ordained, second-class citizens.
As in the case of monotheism, biblical sexism derives from the absolute, non-negotiable, and unambiguous word of God. Women who stray from the fundamentalists' rigid proscriptions get punished according to their cultures.
The Taliban called such women harlots and stoned them to death in public squares. In America, we call them shrill, aggressive feminists and marginalize them with legal chicanery, media spin, and glass ceilings. Or we shrug as Falwell, Robertson and their ilk denounce uppity women from public pulpits and inspire fanatics to attack women's health clinics. Or we simply take for granted that, even in modern America—leader of
the free world and bastion of civilization—violence against women occurs with soul-sapping regularity.
Like militarism, unilateralism, and monotheism, sexism virally spreads in dominist culture. The more widely-accepted the dominist version of men's and women's god-given roles, the less that individual men and women will ever see beyond their proscribed realities, and the more likely that most people (sinners aside) will come to confirm God the Father's supposed plan. So runs the dangerous logic of sexism: because God ordained from the beginning that women should not tarry with things such as reading, writing, and thinking deeply, men wrote the books that for thousands of years have been used to keep women from pursuing literacy and education; because God ordained from the beginning that only men should serve as political and religious leaders, women never had a voice in developing the political and religious
systems that oppress them so; most tragically, because God ordained from the beginning that the varying differences between men and women led naturally to non-negotiable roles and standing in life, individual freedom and untold human potential has withered on the vine of sexist predetermination."
Name:Sassy •
Date: 09/23/08 5:05
A: So due to all monotheistic religions being so blatantly sexist, it's certainly no surprise that Paganism, Wicca, is on the rise today - particularly with women/teenage girls, and I'm glad to hear it. The more Paganism in the world, the better.
After all, monotheism, in whatever form, worships an all male diety. Yet in Wicca, there is Goddess and God - (since both are necessary if one wishes for balance and wholeness.) In Wicca, women are expected to be leaders - in monotheism, she is expected to be a second-class citizen to men; only men lead, rule over women, women must be silent, etc. Yet in Wicca women are taught to learn to speak up and speak boldly.
As one person noted about Wicca and women: "It empowers us is ways that the religions of Abraham cannot."
So true, so true....
From BBC:
"The attraction of Paganism is not only in the idea of casting love spells. The popularity of Paganism can also be attributed to the fact that it tackles issues that teenagers are interested in - in a way that other religions do not.
The supernatural is a good example of this. Massimo Introvigne (lecturer at Harvard University) suggests that programmes such as Buffy the Vampire Slayer illustrate the problems that organised religions are suffering from. He says that Buffy is telling us that "Supernatural beings may be out there, but traditional theology is not regarded as useful for dealing with them".
Paganism also places issues such as the environment, morality and gender at the top of its list of priorities. These are issues that teenagers can relate to. The Pagan Federation of Great Britain states in its three main principles a "love for and kinship with Nature", a "positive morality" and a "recognition of the Divine which transcends gender".
Author Silver Ravenwolf thinks that the inclusion of women is a particularly important factor for the masses of teenage girls who turn to Paganism. She says 'women in particular don't like the idea of being second-class citizens in spirituality. Wicca has the male and female on the same footing'.
God & Goddess Bless
Name:sam •
Date: 09/24/08 0:37
A: Hello Judith,
Thank you for your answer, and here my answer to the few important ones.
"I have not read the whole QURAN ".
--- I dead read the Bible , the Gospels [& the letters of Paul], and the Quran, many times over, and I wasn't reading them as a believer in any of them, but as to come to the truth since the whole world are fighting, each claim that his book/books are the words of God !!!.
I never believed in any religion all my life, and I do hate those religious people from all sides, those who do spread hate and wars and kill each other in the name of God. But always I do believe in God all my life, and I do feel HE is there, and I do know that from the time I was very young, by observing myself and the world aroud me.
Dear Judith, Most people they come to earth and live few years, and then they leave and not seeing the marvels of God creation, They can see themselves as man/woman made of beautiful body, but they do not see how been created from a tiny drop to evolve to be a great machine of bones and flesh with a trillions of small parts work together, and that is the same for many other creatures.
People look at the things around them in the world as a person look at painting with beautiful colours whithout connecting the painting to the one who draw it, but I do always do think about the maker of things and connect the work to Him, because the important has to be for the one who created the painting and not the painting itself.
We are the most intelligent creature on this earth, and we alway forget that we are how small and weak we are in the world which we live in. God gave us and example:
Q-22:73 O people, an example is presented so listen to it. Indeed, those you invoke beside GOD will never create (as much as) a fly, even if they gathered together for it (i.e., that purpose). And if the fly should steal from them a tiny things, they could not recover it from him. WEAK ARE THE PURSUER AND PURSUED.
" I also agree that the Dark ages did much damage to all written materials....and not just by Christians"
----- I did mention that the Quran from the time it was written [1400 years ago] not a even one word has been changed and the Quran that ones read in China , in Arabia and in Canada are the same, word by word and letter by letter. So, you cannot include this book with the Bible and the Gospels which there are proofs that they hold false stories and wrong information, and been forged many time during the years, and you are wrong in the claim that you made, and that because you do not know the story of the Quran and how it was written then aproved by the Prophet while He still alive, the other books wer writen by people other than Moses or Jesus and after many years.
"the birth and life of Ismeal and Issac, and it was there that I decided it was a dispute between half brothers "
---- You said that you find The story of Ismael & Isaac as a dispute between half brothers, that is all, but if you go and read it carefully , line by line you will find much more than dispute between children, but spreading of lies & hate, which we still see it from the Jews/Christians until this day, here is my findings:
And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram TO BE HIS WIFE. [another Bible “ to be His concubine], (Abraham was 85 years old)
- And Abram was fourscore and six years old, when Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram. (Here Abraham was 86 year old)
- And Ishmael his son was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin. ( Here Ishmael was 13 and the first born son to Abraham)
- And Abraham was an hundred years old, when his son Isaac was born unto him. (Abraham now is 100 years old when Isaac was born, and at this time Ishmael was 100-86=14 years old.)
- And the child grew, and was weaned: and Abraham made a great feast the same day that Isaac was weaned. ( it is known that the weaning of the child will be at the age of 2. ( that makes the age of Abraham 102, and Isaac 2 , and Ishmael 16)
- Wherefore she [Sarah] said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be HEIR with my son, even with Isaac. ( Here the story brings jealousy, selfishness and hate, and that cannot be attributed to God, in the sight of God there no poor or rich, no master or slave, and God will not agree to what Sarah done to Hagar and Ishmael, but the hate towards them and their descendants are still practiced all the time by the believer in this book )
- And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle/skin of water, and gave it unto Hagar, PUTTING IT ON HER SHOULDER, AND THE CHILD [ISHMAEL] , and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba. And the water was spent in the bottle, and she CAST [throw the child- in another bible] THE CHILD UNDER THE SHRUBS.
Here the child is at the age of 16. At that age no one will call the 16 years old young man a child. At that age a young man can marry and have a family, and of course he can walk and no need for his mother to carry him. At that age the mother cannot throw/cast her son under the shrubs , also at that age the mother cannot carry the 16 years old son + the food + the water, and walk in the wilderness for any lent of time. The story cannot be correct or right, but it was made up by the people of Sarah who hatted Hagar and her son.
- And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction. (God gave Ishmael the name)
- 17:7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. (That came after the birth of Ishmael and before Isaac was born)
- And AS FOR ISHMAEL , I have heard thee: Behold, I HAVE BLESSED HIM, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. (How can people hate Ishmael while God gave him HIS blessings -and many times?).
- And God was with the lad [Ishmael]; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer. (God was with Him, and the others hated him )
But we read after
- And he [Ishmael] will be like a MOUNTAIN ASS ass among men; his hand will be against every man and every man's hand against him, and he will keep his place against all his brothers. ( in another bible WILD ASS, and in another WILD MAN etc., and we see here the mentioning of BROTHERS, but we know that Ishmael has only one brother , Isaac.)
Can we believe that God will accept to call anyone such names in the first place? And what then about the one whom been blessed by HIM, and be with HIM. .
This is just one of the many wrong stories which were written in the Bible and attributed to God, and that cannot be accepted by any honest man.
Judith, I find it strange that that you ignore the real scientific informations in the Quran that I mentioned in my post and you went to tell me about story from the Bible.
I want to ask you your honest opinion about them, and please bring any verse in the Bible and the gospels which has at list some scintific information about anything.
God bless you.
Name:Sassy •
Date: 09/24/08 1:57
A: "Many of the earliest known creation stories are of a Great Mother: a female giver and nurturer of life, the Goddess of animals, plants, and humans, waters, earth and sky," writes author Riane Eisler.
This concept of a Great Mother is also reflected in numerous Native creation stories. An intrinsic respect for women in their society also complements their belief that the Native Peoples' origin stems from a Woman or Female Spirit(s).
Corn was a highly valued staple in the Americas and together with the other vital crops of beans and squash, the grouping was named the "Three Sisters, Our Supporters" in accordance with the belief that the plants also embodied female spirits. Mother Corn Herself, the nurturing Creatrix and Sustainer, was held in the highest esteem as shown in the following creation story.
"Once all living things were in the womb of Mother Earth. Corn Mother caused all things to have life and start to move toward the surface of the Earth. With Corn Mother's help, the people were born onto the surface of the Earth, but because the people did not know how to care for themselves, they started to wander...Finally the Arikara came to a beautiful land where they found everything they needed to live. A woman of great beauty came to them and the Arikara recognized her as the Corn Mother. She stayed with them for many years and taught them how to live and work on the Earth and how to pray. When she died, Corn Mother left the people a corn plant as a reminder that her spirit would always guide and care for them. The Arikara say that the beautiful place where they learned to live was the valley of the Loup River in Kansas."
Female spirits were also considered integral to daily and ceremonial life. The Hopi, Cherokee and Arikara, believed in a Corn Mother who gave birth to them and also created the land that sustained them. Cherokees say they came from the breast of Corn Mother(Selu, who died so that maize would spring from her body and give life to the people. The Iroquois believe that they were born from the mud on the back of the Earth, known as Grandmother Turtle... For the Sioux, White-Buffalo Calf Woman gave the people the 'Gift of the Pipe and Truth' and the first mothers of all the Tewa Pueblo people were called Blue Corn Woman,
Summer Mother, White Corn Maiden, and the Winter Mother.
According to the teachings of Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi, "It is the Mother Who created the universe. The Father was just a Witness to the whole show. It is She That makes it beautiful so that He sees the show, that He becomes the spectator, because She loves Her creation." (Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi, The Mother, 1980)
The Holy Spirit (God the Mother) gives birth to the Creation: "And the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep and the [Holy] Spirit of God [the Mother] was moving over the surface of the waters." (Genesis 1:2)
"The spiritual understanding and gender preferences in this material is based upon the teachings of Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi, who says that the Holy Spirit is God the Mother. God the Mother is actually very present in the scriptures, where She is usually called Holy Spirit or Wisdom. According to Shri Mataji God the Father is the Witness who watches God the Mother do all the work of Creation.
For example, here is John 1:1-5 written according to Shri Mataji's teachings. You will clearly see God the Mother in it now:"
"In the beginning was the Word [the Omkara of the Adi Shakti] and the Word was with God [God the Father] and the Word was God [God the Mother]. She was in the beginning with God. All things came into being by Her, and apart from Her nothing came into being that has come into being. In Her was Life and the Life was the Light of men. And the Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it." (John 1:1-5)
"By the Word of the Lord [by the Omkara of the Adi Shakti] the heavens were made and by the breath of Her mouth, all their Host." (Psalms 33:6)
http://www.holyspirit-shekinah.org
Name:Sassy •
Date: 09/24/08 5:33
A: Per Barbara Walker:
“Myths of creation generally present a symbolic view of birth. Conditions before creation suggest the uterine environment: darkness, liquid, stirring or churning movement, the ‘eternal flux’ associated with the blood of the Mother (Kali’s Ocean of Blood, for example.) ..
The Bible’s highly derivative version says ‘the earth was without form, and void: and darkness was upon the face of the Deep’. The Deep was the Mother’s womb, tehom, derived from Tiamat, the Babylonian name of the primordial Goddess. In Egypt, she was Temu, mother of the abyssal elements: Water, Darkness, Night, and Eternity.
Most creation myths speak of a splitting or opening in the dark, formless Mother. The beginning of the existing world is signaled by the coming of light. Romans made the connection with birth quite clear: Juno Lucina was not only a creatress, but also the Mother who brought ‘light’ to the eyes of the newborn. The biblical God who said ‘Let there be light’ (Fiat lux) copied the word of the Goddess..
Creation/birth was inseparable from the figure of the Mother. The oldest myths made her the divider of waters, maker of heaven and earth. When a god came into the picture, he was at first only her subordinate consort, one of the beings she had created.. Late Egyptian gods who claimed to be creators never succeeded in ridding themselves of feminine imagery. For instance, Khepera insisted that he created the universe alone, yet he had to say, ‘I laid a foundation in Maa’, meaning the Great Womb, the Goddess Maat.
Often it is said when the god was allowed to create, he became puffed up with pride, and began to ignore his Mother and claim sole authorship of the universe. This angered the Goddess. She punished him, bruised his head with her heel, and sent him down to the underworld.
Gnostic creation myths of the early Christian era were still telling versions in which the female principle was pre-eminent, which is why they were declared uncanonical. ‘In his madness,’ Jehovah claimed to be the only God, because he had forgotten the Mother who brought him into being, according to one source.
However absurd, these myths still maintain a hold on vast numbers of people deliberately kept in ignorance by an obsolete fundamentalism. Even educated adults sometimes insist that an omniscient god created the world for a purpose of his own.”
Name:sam •
Date: 09/26/08 0:36
A: Dear Sassy,
You brought what someone said: "Many of the earliest known creation stories are of a Great Mother: a female giver and nurturer of life, the Goddess of animals, plants, and humans, waters, earth and sky," writes author Riane Eisler.
"a female giver and nurturer of life",
and you sould know that the male sperm that gives life to the female egg in the first place, which is without it , it is nothing but a dead egg. R.E. forget that the life came from both male and female together, and the male has his own part in nutturing the life , and both are partner in the prosess, and that goes for all living thing on this earth.
EIRLIEST STORIES !!! ...There are many stories told by the people about a lot of things, and most of them came from the creation of their short mind, and those people back then believe in MYTHS too, but you Sassy live in the 21st century, and you should know better.
You and many others, specially woman, keep claiming that GOD is A FEMALE, by mentionning the name "GODESS".
Jesus mentioned God as THE HOLY SPIRIT, [BUT WHOEVER SPEKS AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT], also mentioned God as "HIM", [HIM WHO SENT ME] Jesus never mentioned God as a man.
In the Bible the story tells us that God walked with Abraham, and for sure this story is false, made by people who created a lot of other false stories in the Bible.
Sassy, THE TRUTH is, God never visited the earth, and no one ever saw God. Any one who claim that he saw God is a liar, and those who make drawing as what He looks like , are just a stupid man imagination.
God is not man or woman like us , and he is not like any other creature of this world, and since humain do not know what He is then the best term to represent Him is "SPIRIT".
When we mention the name as SPIRIT, then we cannot attach to God anything belong to us. God been there before the creation [17 to 20 billion years] , He never has a partner or wife or children not in His universe and not on the earth. WE KNOW NOTHING ABOUT GOD except what His messenger told us, that He is our creator, and everything is belong to Him. The son of god created by Paul as the Romans and the Greeks and many others created stories about god and godess and their children.
God bless you.
Name:Sassy •
Date: 09/26/08 2:59
A: "There are many stories told by the people about a lot of things, and most of them came from the creation of their short mind, and those people back then believe in MYTHS too, but you Sassy live in the 21st century, and you should know better."
I do know better ! I don't take myths 'literally' - that's why I believe in evolution - which took billions of years; not 6/7 thousand years. You're the one who should know better - you come across like a creationist. You say most creation myths came 'of their short mind' - yes, and the Genesis creation myth came from a short mind as well !
They want to teach creationism in public schools in the U.S., as though it were some kind of science (which it isn't). But they are discriminatory - they only want to teach the Genesis creation myth - why not the Native American creation myths? They are much better ! They honor women and the female principle, and have great respect for the earth, and are wise about the inter-connectedness of things. But sadly and tragically european white men destroyed their culture, which was very pro-female, until they 'civilized' them. (often women had it better 'before' being 'civilized'.)
"and you sould know that the male sperm that gives life to the female egg in the first place, which is without it , it is nothing but a dead egg."
But it's the egg, as well as the woman herself, who does most the 'work' in creating a child; the child feeds from her 'blood' not the father's blood. And the egg is not passive, while sperm is active; that's just sexism in science (and in biology there's still quite a bit of sexism, despite feminist inroads.) The egg is just as active as the sperm. And, we 'get more' from our mothers, not fathers, that's why the dna from mothers 'lasts longer' - such as the tests they did on the Maria ossuary.
Oh, and by the way, Sam, just to burst your bubble, two women 'can' have a child together; that's why I like reading up on science. The child will always be a girl, too, if done this way ! So a man isn't always needed.
And, to burst your bubble again, it's the female, NOT the male that is primordial ! We all begin as females in the womb; we are all born of women. (so realistically speaking, man comes from woman, not the other way around as the Bible and other sexist 'holy books' like to claim.)
Speaking evolutionary-wise, we likely began in the sea, in a female sea, in a womb-like environment, following the rhythms of the moon, creating parthenogenetically ... the male came later. So women today in a sense, have small 'seas' within their wombs when pregnant. Even Darwin, sexist that he was (however, that doesn't mean I totally reject everything Darwin said), admitted that the female is primordial, not the male. Darwin also believed the sea is where the menstrual cycle began. (And for fun, just to note, the male orgasm is for procreation; but the female orgasm is for her pleasure alone!) :D
Today, due to the great imbalance between male/female energies that's been going on for centuries (favoring male over female), we have all the destruction of the earth, all the pollution, and I've read of male fish either dying or else becoming female to survive! Awile ago, I read of a water place so polluted in California, that the male fish were turning female to survive; because the males died, while females thrived. So, the female sex isn't always the 'weaker' sex after all. That was just a myth the patriarchal propaganda machine made up long ago.
And, the female hormones, especially estrogen, but also progersterone, is 'natural' in nature, in plants. But the same cannot be said for testosterone. Again, this all shows to me more 'proof' of the female, not male, being primordial. So if one is going to be a creationist, it makes more sense to me to have a Mother which 'created' not a Father.
As for the Holy Spirit, She IS the feminine of God; do your research. In Judaism, the term for spirit was feminine, before being turned 'masculine' later on. (the patriarchal propaganda machine didn't want the feminine of the divine any part of the trinity.) As for what Jesus always says, I take with a grain of salt; all written by men in a very savage and sexist era, women edited out of the story or else their roles 'downplayed'. So of course they only have Jesus mention God or Holy Spirit as 'He.'
Yet, in some of the 'heretical' texts, Jesus does pray to his Mother the Spirit. Also, the Holy Spirit has many 'motherly' traits, if you 'objectively' think about it. And, Wisdom in the Bible is referred to as 'she'; and Wisdom is really Sophia. But, they didn't want to use Sophia, because it just has to feminine of a sound, and thus wasn't part of their agenda; most of the feminine imagery of God in the Bible was removed long ago - but not all of it; there are still some 'clues' here and there.
Just because the patriarchal propaganda machine was out to make God all-male, it doesn't mean 'She' isn't still around. She may be ignored, denied, ridiculed, but that doesn't mean She isn't there. And, She is returning to our consciousness today; whether it's through Wicca or other Pagan beliefs, or else through Christians honoring God the Mother, and/or the Holy Spirit as She, as well as Jews honoring the Shekinah as God the Mother. And, at least in some of the more enlightened branches of Christianity and Judaism, women are ministers and preachers and rabbis. Cool. Right on.
She, the Goddess, is returning, at least to some of us, like it or not.
Oh, and I never said God walked on the earth, so not sure why you're throwing that at me? You also said God never had a wife, but Yahweh did; they just got rid of her. Asherah (who's ridiculed in the old testament) was his wife - there's been some proof discovered thanks to archaeology; for one example, a throne of Yahweh's was found not long ago, and it was a throne for two people, not one !
God/dess Bless us, everyone !
Name:Sassy •
Date: 09/26/08 3:33
A: I meant to say that the earth is billions of years old; not 6/7 as lots of creationists believe.
Here's a book to read "Adam's Curse" by Bryan Sykes
From Publishers Weekly
Well-known Oxford geneticist Sykes (The Seven Daughters of Eve), in this lively and thought-provoking book, gives a genetic twist to the battle between the sexes. All human existence, he says, stems from the battle between the X and Y chromosomes to further their own reproduction at the expense of the other. The Y chromosome is passed on only by fathers, while mitochondrial DNA is passed on only by mothers. Sykes shows that many members of several Scottish clans (most notably the Macdonalds) can be traced via their Y chromosomes back to a common ancestor. Researchers have also been able to trace the extent of Viking settlement and intermarriage in the British Isles and northern Europe through Y chromosome distribution. Sykes's argument for a genetic role in homosexuality will undoubtedly be controversial. Using Dean Hamer's pedigrees, he claims that evidence points less to a "gay gene" than to mitochondrial DNA playing the leading role in a Machiavellian plot to further its own reproduction. Sykes concludes by noting that, as evidenced by declining sperm counts and high percentages of abnormal sperm, among other variables, the Y chromosome is a genetic mess and is deteriorating so quickly that men could become extinct. Those who find that a happy thought will want to snap up this book, as well as readers interested in learning what our chromosomes tell us about where we came from and where we may be headed."
A world without men would mean.... less rape, less murder, less child-abuse, less war... hmmm I kind of like it.... :b
Name:Sassy •
Date: 09/26/08 3:45
A: from Rebirth of the Goddess, by Carol P. Christ
Slaying the Goddesses
Most people are more familiar with the Goddesses from classical Greek and Near Eastern mythology than with the Goddesses of earlier times. These Goddesses, including Athena, Aphrodite, Artemis, Inanna, and Ishtar, come from the warrior societies of the Bronze and Iron Ages. In the mythologies of these cultures, the Goddesses of the Neolithic and Paleolithic eras are slain or made subordinate to the new Gods of the patriarchal warriors, such as Zeus and Marduk. As classicist Jane Harrison points out, the writers of patriarchal mythologies are motivated by a 'theological animus.' Their goal is to dethrone the Goddess and to legitimate the new culture of the patriarchal warriors...
In Greece, there are a number of versions of the myth of the slaying of the Goddess. One of them is the story of Apollo's conquest of Delphi, told in the Homeric Hymn 'To Pythian Apollo' (c. 700-600 B.C.E.). Aeschylus says that the first to be worshiped at Delphi was the Earth (Gaia) followed by Phobe (the Moon) and Themis (the Goddess of Social Order). Delphi, which is etymologically related to the word for womb, was understood to be the birthplace of the universe.
Archaeological evidence confirms that Apollo's shrine replaced an earlier one to Gaia, the Earth. To justify Apollo's acquisition of the site, the hymnist states that when Apollo came to Delphi, he
Slew with his mighty bow a female dragon,
A well-fed, powerful monster, savage and bloody,
Who worked many evils on men who lived in that land.
Like Tiamat, the female 'dragon' who guards the shrine of Mother Earth is portrayed as the source of evil. The dragon's demise is every bit as bloody and sadistically portrayed as Tiamat's.
In the classical mythology of Greece, each of the Goddesses is deprived of the power that once was hers. In Homer, Hera, once the autonomous Goddess of the Argive plain and of Samos, becomes the frustrated and unhappy wife of Zeus. In Hesiod, Pandora, the Goddess whose name means 'Giver of All,' is portrayed as a woman who opens a jar (often incorrectly translated as 'box') and releases evil into the world...
...The many stories of Zeus raping Goddesses, nymphs, and mortal women are yet another version of the myth of the slaying of the Goddess.
Survivals of the Ancient Goddesses
Once we recognize the myths of patriarchy for what they are, we can begin to look again at the familiar images of the Goddesses that come to us through later patriarchally influenced cultures. As Gimbutas has taught us to see, there are many survivals of Old European religion in classical mythology, in folk tradition, and even within Christianity. Though Athena is in some respects a very patriarchalized Goddess and a traitor to her sex, we can also glimpse the Old European Goddess through her. We can understand that she, rather than a male God, was the guardian of patriarchal and warlike Athens because she was the ancient Goddess of the Rock that was later named the Acropolis. The olive tree she produced in her contest with Poseidon connects her with the agricultural Goddesses. Her companion animals, the owl and the snakes that protect her shield, are symbols of the Old European Goddess.
The Goddesses of patriarchal mythology dimly relfect the power of women and Goddesses in prepatriarchal societies. They are the ones who gave rise to the scholarly myth that Goddesses are the creations of men and that their images everywhere support male power. But more ancient images of the Goddesses and echoes of their power in later myths and customs challenge the widely held belief that 'in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.'
Name:Sassy •
Date: 09/26/08 4:02
A: "Science has proof without any certainty. Creationists have certainty
without any proof."
[Ashley Montague]
From “Atheism Central for Secondary School Students – DETOX”:
“Three Points About Creationism
Creationism is a doctrine that comes in many guises. There's biblical creationism and scientific creationism, and there's literal creationism and liberal creationism. The differences are superficial, and all variants share blind faith in the same curious little story from an anonymous compilation of ancient myths. It is possible, therefore, to treat them all as one and to reject them all as one.
Here are three brief points about debate between the theories of creation and evolution that support rejecting creation after only cursory examination. Creationism should be denied a seat at the table without being given time to preach its details.
1. Creation and evolution are each representative of a broad epistemology. Framing the issue of the origins and diversity of life as a contest or debate between creation and evolution disguises the point. The real issue is whether a naturalistic epistemology or a supernaturalistic epistemology is correct.
Evolution is a theory that is part of a naturalistic epistemology. Its knowledge is natural. It owes its existence (like every successful scientific theory) to a single virtue: it is the best explanation of nature. Nature imposes itself on it, and it unites and simplifies natural
evidence. Accepting (or rejecting) a naturalistic theory requires only empirical observation and analysis -- evidence that can be accepted on its own merits. Therefore, naturalistic theories are persuasive on their own merits. They use known data to explain unknown processes. In other words, naturalistic theories attempt to explain the unknown by the known.
Creation is a theory that is part of a supernaturalistic epistemology. Its knowledge transcends nature. Its knowledge is not obtained from the natural world. It is imposed on nature, thus making it more complicated. Accepting it requires faith because there is not any evidence that makes it persuasive. Only natural evidence does not require faith and can be accepted on its own merits. Therefore, supernaturalistic theories are not persuasive on their own merits. Nor can they be fully understood. In other words, supernaturalistic theories attempt to explain the unknown by the unknowable.
The issue is not which theory is superior. The issue is which epistemology is superior. To decide, we must use reason. "Reason is not one tool of thought among many, it is the entire toolbox." Reason supports only a naturalistic epistemology. Simply because it is not a naturalistic theory, creation must be rejected.
2. Creation and evolution are not theories with equal merit. Creationists discuss them as if they were. This is deception, stupidity or lunacy -- pick one.
Evolution is scientific theory and fact. It is verifiable and falsifiable. It makes predictions that have proven true. It is observable both in laboratories and in nature. It is open to public scrutiny and contentious debate. It is open to change and improvement. It has practical application to other sciences. It is explicit and rigorous. It is an incomplete theory with the capacity to expand its (already vast) explanatory power.
Creation is none of these things. It is neither verifiable nor falsifiable. It has no predictive or explanatory power. It cannot be observed, scrutinized or questioned. It is static and incapable of improvement – it can only be "re-understood." It is a complete theory, but because it is vague, ambiguous and subject to interpretation, it is incomprehensible. It has no practical application to other sciences. In fact, the following fields of knowledge would have to be overhauled to be made consistent with creationism: anthropology, astronomy, biology, botany, chemistry, geology, geophysics, meteorology, paleontology, philosophy, physics, psychology, sociology, world history and zoology.
This is not an example of a contest between competing theories. It is a silly question of which is more rational: science or pseudoscientific gobbledygook.
3. Creation and evolution are not alone, and they are not opposites. It is not the case that criticism of one provides support to the other.
Creationist argument often (always?) consists solely of attacks on evolutionary theory. Even if we assume that these arguments have merit, they add no strength to the creationist position.
The creationist strategy is called "dualism." The argument has value only if (a) these are the only two possible theories, or (b) the theories are diametric opposites. First, (a) is incorrect. If the creation story in the Old Testament is a viable explanation, many equally viable creation stories must also be considered.” [such as some of the ones I’ve posted under this topic.] “All have equal merit. Second, (b) is obviously incorrect. Theories simply cannot be opposites. Therefore, the truth or falsity of evolution does not make creation more convincing.
Dualism is rhetorical subterfuge and nothing more. A complete rebuttal is simply, "So what?" At best, its criticism demonstrates the incompleteness of our understanding of the world. Creationists cry, "Success! There are gaps in your theory, so you must believe ours." This so-called "god in the gaps" approach, besides being inherently illogical as dualist, only substitutes faith in a supernatural being for honest ignorance. It does not increase our knowledge or reduce the number of questions we have. It actually increases our ignorance by introducing another unknown (worse: unknowable) entity. This is
unreasonable. The reasonable response to gaps in a theory is to close them by expanding, modifying or replacing the theory with one that has greater explanatory power (although the replacement option is extreme and revolutionary -- see Kuhn). In this way, evolution has itself "evolved" dramatically since Darwin and others proposed it 85 years before the
discovery of DNA. The gaps are closing. Naturally.”
____
The foolish and cruel notion that a wife is to obey her husband has sent more women to the grave than to the courts for a divorce.
~Lemuel K. Washburn, Is The Bible Worth Reading And Other Essays, 1911
Name:sam •
Date: 09/27/08 21:24
A: Dear Sassy,
You said: "evolution - which took billions of years; not 6/7 thousand years. You're the one who should know better "
First, I do know better, better than you, generally speaking , because I know the fact that only the Christians [in the past 2000 years] believe in the 6/7 thousand years, and the Muslims and I , we do not believe in what the Christians believe in, about the ceration which came in the Bible.
The Islam religion do not put a date or time about the creation, but they know that the real information about all is only known by God. The evolutionist, al what they bring is a gess, only the short minded who believe that human came from apes, you tell me which one?, because there are many spieces of them.
The Quran mentioned in this verse;
70:4 The angels and the spirit [i.e.,Gabriel] will ascend to HIM during A DAY THE EXTENT OF WHICH IS FIFTY THOUSAND YEARS.
Day = 50 000 years.
If you understand that the day on our earth is no more than the 24 hours that took the earth to make one revolution around its axis, and the day on Jupiter {Though Jupiter is the largest planet, it rotates extremely fast on its orbit taking 9 hours 55 minutes Earth hours. }
But the year on Jupiter, {Jupiter takes 12 Earth years to revolve around the sun. }
SO, the day and the year can be different in different part of the universe, A day for our galaxy [one revolution round its axis] , and A year [the revolution of the galaxy around the center of the universe can be counted by 250 000 years for the first and by 17 billion years for the second.
DARWIN the Master of the evolution theory, did not have the knowledge of today about the billions of galaxies of our universe , that came by MR.HUBBLE much later on.
Few Years ago, on the National Gepgraphic forums we had many discusions about a topic "evolution & creation", and here just few line:
HOW TO PROVE THE EXISTENCE OF SOMEONE WE NEVER SAW OR HEARD FROM?
WE can prove someone existence by the print that he left behind, and here a simple example:
Let us look at the train , the car and the plane. We all know that they exist, but they did not ALL exist at one time, centuries ago the ones that came first are different from the others that follow them, and they are today much better and much advanced. All started by one single invention (creation) long time ago. “THE WHEEL”(let’ call it the first dead single CELL from man creation), but no one knows how exactly this invention processed, and whom is responsible for it, or when it happen. (That is exactly of our knowledge about GOD and HIS creation). Then the wheel became a “CART” by some genius who added few part to it, and while the wheel was first and the base for all what to come after, we mention the new invention by the name “CART”, and the wheel just part of it. Driven by man or by animal the cart is a cart. Then a new invention came to change the use of man/animal power by new developed power from other sources, and the cart became “CAR”, “TRAIN”, “PLANE”, and the wheel still a wheel, small wheel that turn and move all the developments on this earth, and we take it for granted, while it was and still the first building block that man use to achieve a lot of his success . With all the benefit that we get from the wheel, the name of the unknown person who created the wheel is unknown to us . Can we deny his existence because we did not see or hear from him?. Can we give him a name just for our appreciation to what he gave us?. His print is every were, so how can we deny him . The wheel did not create itself.
WHOM CREATED ALL THINGS?.
THE FACT THAT THING CANNOT BE CREATED FROM NOTHING, AND CREATION NEEDS CREATOR. The thing was there, and the creator was there to create from it, and the things which were created is the print to prove the creator.
In the case of the wheel, we believe in the man through his small wheel invention only, but as of the creator of all things and everything that we know, and things behind our imagination that we will come to know after, and in the right time, all those is here to prove His existence, beside, HE the creator sent messages through the ages to tell the truth about Himself to let people know about HIS existence, and with all that there still some doubt in the heart of some in believing in HIM.
-----
In the last message that came from God, God gave many examples to prove HIS words, Here is one of them:
1- 24:40 Or [they are] like darkness within AN UNFATHOMABLE SEA WHICH IS COVERED BY WAVES, UPON WHICH ARE WAVES, OVER WHICH ARE CLOUDS.Darknesses, some of them upon others. When one puts out his hand [therein], he can hardly see it. And he to whom GOD has not granted light , for him there is no light.
In this verse we see the sequence clear. There are waves in the deep sea, and then there are surface waves, then the clouds.
My question to you Sassy, DO YOU THINK OR AGREE THAT THERE ARE WAVES IN THE DEEP SEAS BELOW THE SURFACE WAVES.
PLEASE GIVE ME YOUR ANSWER, if you know the truth.
Another example from the words of God will come next, so you can give your opinion on it.
God bless you.
Name:Sassy •
Date: 09/28/08 9:52
A: perhaps it was a woman who invented the wheel...
"In the beginning, Eurynome, the Goddess of All Things, rose naked from chaos… Eurynome & Ophion made their home upon Mount Olympus, where he vexed her by claiming to be the author of the universe. Forthwith she bruised his head with her heel, kicked out his teeth, and banished him to the dark caves below the earth…Eurynome’s Sumerian name was Iahu (exalted dove) a title which later passed to Jehovah as the creator."
The god Bel is another of the many creator gods; though Bel is a masculine form of Belili, the Sumerian Mother-goddess.
"The Black Virgins possess great power, the mana of the old goddess of life, death, and rebirth. Mana is an extraphysical power immanent in and emanating from nature, viewed as the embodiment of all elemental forces that produce and maintain the order of the universe."
The patriarchal tradition has pretty much ignored the implications of God's motherly side and of our responsibility to develop the mother in ourselves, whether we are women or men, heterosexual or homosexual.
[Matthew Fox]
When the mind is disturbed, the multiplicity of things is produced,
but when the mind is quieted, the multiplicity of things disappears.
[Ashvaghosha]
The Western mind is easily confused by the fabulous number of gods and goddesses which populate Hindu mythology in their various appearances and incarnations. To understand how the Hindus can cope with this multitude of divinities, we must be aware of the basic attitude of Hinduism that in substance all these divinities are identical. They are all manifestations of the same divine reality, reflecting different aspects of the infinite, omnipresent, and - ultimately - incomprehensible Brahman.
[Fritjof Capra]
This that people say, 'Worship this god! Worship that god!'-one after another- this is his [Brahman's] creation indeed! And he himself is all the gods.
[from Hindu scriptures]
In the Hindu-Shakta tradition the goddess Shakti is worshiped as the ultimate reality... the life force; cosmic energy experienced as female... without Shakti, primal energy, the god Shiva is dormant, lifeless..
[E. Gadon]
Zen: A special transmission outside the scriptures,
Not founded upon words and letters,
Pointing directly to the human mind,
Seeing into one's nature and attaining Buddhahood.
My connection with the body and its parts is dissolved. My perceptive organs are discarded. Thus leaving my material form and bidding farewell to my knowledge, I become one with the Great Pervader. This I call sitting and forgetting all things.
[Chuang Tzu]
A fully realized human is one who, per Lao Tzu: 'knows the masculine and yet keeps to the feminine.'
The Tao is the One.
From the One come yin and yang;
From these two, creative energy;
From energy, ten thousand things,
The forms of all creation.
All life embodies yin
And embraces yang,
Through their union
Achieving harmony.
[Tao 42]
Develop your masculine power
Yet be gentle and nurturing.
Become open like a valley
So the river of virtue
Flows through you,
Returning you to source.
[Tao 28]
While lesser people crave power and dominance, Tao leaders reject competitive hierarchies as unnatural. They build networks, realizing we're all part of the interlocking web of life.
[D. Dreher]
There is a growing awareness that we are doomed as a species and planet unless we have a radical change of consciousness. The re-emergence of the Goddess is becoming the symbol and metaphor for this transformation of culture....
James Lovelock's 'Gaia Hypothesis' has made us aware of our planet as a self-creative, self-maintaining, living organism.
[Elinor Gadon]
The feminine call for a new recognition arises simultaneously with the violence that threatens to get out of hand... The archaic goddesses monitored the life cycle throughout its phases: birth, growth, love, death and rebirth. Evidently today our endangered life cycle needs divine monitoring. In the depths of the unconscious psyche, the ancient Goddess is arising. She demands recognition and homage. If we refuse to acknowledge Her, She may unleash forces of destruction. If we grant the Goddess Her due, She may compassionately guide us toward transformation.
[Edward Whitmont, 1982]
... the religion of the Goddess never completely died out despite the brutal persecutions. . . kept alive by a handful of the faithful... the Old Religion went underground and became the most secret of religions...
Name:sam •
Date: 09/28/08 21:06
A: Hi Sassy,
A smart person does not go in an empty curcle when dealing whith a subect, any subject. There are Question about many things out there, and there should be answer for those questions, a LOGICAL answer.
Trying to go around by bringing what you read from TOM & JERRY etc. and bringing their opinion as an answer does hold a scientifical or logical proof to the suject that we are talking about.
You spend a lot of time and you write many lines for nothing.
I did bring a question , and a simple one, and all what it need a few words to give an answer to it. either you know or NO.
Here the question again, and I hope you give your answer to that one question , thank you in advance.
-------
God gave many examples to prove HIS words, Here is one of them:
1- 24:40 Or [they are] like darkness within AN UNFATHOMABLE SEA WHICH IS COVERED BY WAVES, UPON WHICH ARE WAVES, OVER WHICH ARE CLOUDS.Darknesses, some of them upon others. When one puts out his hand [therein], he can hardly see it. And he to whom GOD has not granted light , for him there is no light.
In this verse we see the sequence clear. There are waves in the deep sea, and then there are surface waves, then the clouds.
My question to you Sassy, DO YOU THINK OR AGREE THAT THERE ARE WAVES IN THE DEEP SEAS BELOW THE SURFACE WAVES.
PLEASE GIVE ME YOUR ANSWER, if you know the truth.
---------
This question IF put in front of the 6 billions people on this earth, their answer will come as NO, but as for me and few scientist, and knowgable people the answer will be YES, and we can prove it by real scientific work, and not by the words of TOM & JERRY. .
Name:Judith •
Date: 09/29/08 7:13
A: Hello All
There have been divers long before Solomon and Sheba , we know the Queen of Sheba had Pearls from Indonesia and, there are under currents.
Divers Knew of those and that was approximately Fifteen Hundred years , before the time that book was written.
Name:Sassy •
Date: 09/30/08 0:40
A: hmm.... I posted nothing by Tom and Jerry, whomever that may be....
I also don't like bullies, who make demands - demands I thus choose to ignore.... ah yes, it's just another case of the patriarchal 'fragile male ego' and the 'fear of the feminine.'
quotes from the wonderful "TAO":
Can you go through your days
Holding fast to the Tao?
Releasing your tension,
As you focus your breathing,
Can you relax like a child?
Can you clear your vision
And open yourself to life?
Those who know they do not know
Gain wisdom.
Those who pretend they know
Remain ignorant.
Persevering on the path is strength.
To keep your center is to endure.
Standing on tiptoe, we become unsteady.
Stretching ourselves too far, we lack balance.
Showing off, we hide our light.
Competing with others, we lose our way.
Thirty spokes share the wheel’s hub;
It is the center hole that makes it useful.
Shape clay into a vessel;
It is the space within that makes it useful.
Cut doors and windows for a room;
It is the holes which make it useful.
Chasing desire can drive us mad.
Therefore, the Tao person
Seeks inner wisdom,
Lets go of excess,
Affirms the truth.
Great success, like disgrace,
Can bring great trouble.
Success which advances ego
Can make you lose your way.
I hold three treasures
Close to my heart.
The first is love;
The next, simplicity;
The third, overcoming ego.
Do not dwell on your ego,
and you will discover your soul.
Be still
And discover your center of peace.
Throughout nature
The ten thousand things move along,
But each returns to its source.
Returning to center is peace.
Find Tao by returning to source.
Close your mouth,
Shut your doors,
And live close to Tao.
Open your mouth,
Be busy all day,
And live in confusion.
At birth all people are soft and yielding.
At death they are hard and stiff.
All green plants are tender and yielding.
At death they are brittle and dry.
When hard and rigid,
We consort with death.
When soft and flexible,
We affirm greater life.
When you know nature as part of yourself,
You will act in harmony.
To live in harmony is to follow Tao.
To follow Tao is enlightenment.
To follow Tao brings compassion.
Compassion brings tolerance.
Tolerance brings strength.
Strength means harmony with nature.
When people do not follow Tao,
Their horses are harnessed for war,
Their energies are used for destruction,
And many go hungry.
The wise leader
Does not choose aggression
To conquer by force
For this brings only resistance.
S/he knows that where armies march
Thorns and brambles grow
And years of want will follow.
Aggression results in loss of strength
And violates Tao.
Whatever violates Tao
Will not endure.
Excessive striving
Leads to exhaustion.
Competitive struggle
Is contrary to Tao.
Wise people seek solutions;
The ignorant only cast blame.
The Tao forever favors
The compassionate and wise.
When seeking knowledge,
Much is acquired.
When seeking Tao,
Much is discarded.
Those who dominate nature
And seek to possess it
Will never succeed,
For nature is a living system, so sacred
That those who use it profanely
Will surely lose it;
And to lose nature
Is to lose ourselves.
To follow the Tao
Is to honor its principles,
To realize:
That we live in nature
But can never possess it;
We can guide and serve,
But never control.
This is the highest wisdom.
Twist and become whole.
Bend and become straight.
Empty out and become full.
Expend energy and be renewed.
The way to greater light leads through darkness.
Going ahead feels like falling back.
The even path seems rugged and hilly,
The highest power a yielding valley.
Know the Tao
Without leaving your doorstep.
See its face
Reflected in the window.
To seek it outside
Is to leave it behind.
The Tao moves by returning
In endless cycles.
By yielding, it overcomes,
Creating the ten thousand things,
Being from nonbeing.
The Tao is mysterious, unfathomable,
Yet within is all that lives.
Something infinite,
Older than heaven and earth,
Silent, solitary, and vast;
Eternal, unchanging,
Yet ever evolving
Throughout ten thousand things.
Not knowing its name,
I call it Tao.
A mystery beyond words,
I call it great.
Granting- that you and I argue.
If you get the better of me, and not I of you,
Are you necessarily right and I wrong?
Or if I get the better of you and not you of me,
Am I necessarily right and you wrong?
Or are we both partly right and partly wrong?
Or are both wholly right and wholly wrong?
Since you and I cannot know,
We all live in darkness.
[Chuang Tzu]
from- 'Zen Master Raven' [Robert Aitken] 'sayings and
doings of a wise bird':
During one of the early gatherings at Tallspruce,
Badger asked Raven, 'How can I get rid of my ego?'
Raven said, 'It's not strong enough.'
'But I'm greedy,' Badger said insistently 'I'm self-centered
and I tend to push other folks around.'
Raven said, 'Like I said.'
Relaxing with the others after zazen one evening, Owl
asked, 'What is the spirit of the practice?'
Raven said, 'Inquiry.'
Owl asked, 'What do I inquire about?'
Raven said, 'Good start.'
The next evening Gray Wolf attended the circle gathering
again and asked, 'After all, what is zazen?'
Raven said, 'Animal practice.'
Gray Wolf said, 'Of course its animal practice; I wouldn't
suppose that stones and trees do it.'
Raven said, 'That would be the zazen of stones and trees.'
Black Bear asked, 'Am I on the right path?'
Raven said, 'Of course. Wolverine is on the right path.'
Black Bear said, 'Wolverine? He seems pretty far afield.'
Raven said, 'His path.'
Wolverine asked, 'Do you practice going with the flow?'
Raven asked, 'Is that a practice?'
Wolverine asked, 'What is practice?'
Raven said, 'Going against the grain.'
Wolverine said, 'Sounds hard.'
Raven said, 'Uphill.'
God/dess Bless !
Name:Sassy •
Date: 09/30/08 1:37
A: Cosmology and the Koran: A Response to Muslim Fundamentalists (2001)
Richard Carrier
"Muslim Fundamentalists are fond of claiming that the Koran miraculously predicted the findings of modern science, and that all of its factual scientific claims are flawless. There are two important objections to this claim that I will make, one pointing to a general problem, the other a specific example of the failure of the claim. The tactic in general has also been criticized by Muslim intellectual Imran Aijaz (see part 2 of "Evidentialist Apologetics in Islam) and I have criticized other examples of it elsewhere ("The Koran Predicted the Speed of Light? Not Really," "Predicting Modern Science: Epicurus vs. Mohammed."
1. There is Nothing Miraculously New in the Koran
Much of the fundamentalist's evidence for this alleged miracle is actually moot, since it represents scientific knowledge that had been known in both the Mediterranean and Middle East for centuries before the Koran was written. Things like this have proven hard to explain to fanatics who are more practiced at pious denials than in actual historical research. For what follows, I am repeating common knowledge in the field of medieval history, and I refer doubters to the bibliography at the end of this essay.
The works of the Greeks were known in the Arab and North African world for a thousand years before Islam, and Islam began translating Greek texts into Arabic within a century of its military conquests. Greek Hellenic culture had long since spread into and affected popular beliefs, even among illiterate peoples, throughout and beyond the Roman Empire, even down the East Coast of Africa, in many cases reinforced by the introduction of the new Romano-Hellenic philosophy of Christianity. Jews and Christians were extensively Hellenized, and Islam sprung from these very same religious traditions. Even India knew about Greek astronomical works in the first century A.D., having partially translated them into royal languages. Anyone who knows the history of the conquests of Alexander the Great and his successors knows that Greeks and their culture had been firmly rooted and spread throughout the world all the way to Afghanistan, the Ganges river, especially Syria and Persia, but even to Arabia itself. Greek influence on Egypt and Carthage, and even direct colonization, was extensive and spread throughout North Africa over a millennium before the rise of Islam. Oral culture, begun from the speeches of philosophers and rhetors, the songs of poets, and the sermons of preachers and holy men, transmitted a simplified Hellenic-Zoroastrian cosmology throughout the peoples of the Western and Middle-Eastern world at the time.
Many of the first Muslims would have been very familiar with Greek language and Greco-Roman education long before they decided to translate texts. The Muslims used Greek for all their administrative documents until the beginning of the 8th century. By the time the Koran was written, all of the Arabic world had been under the domination of the Greek Byzantine Empire for centuries, and had been settled by Greeks since the invasion of Alexander the Great a thousand years before. Indeed, it would have been impossible for Arabs in the 7th century not to know of Greek ideas, since they would already have known many Greeks, they would have traded and worked and gone to school in Greek cities, and served in Greek armies and administrations, for centuries. Just as Europeans learned and read from Latin and Greek, despite speaking other languages, for over a thousand years before anyone thought to start translating books into local languages, so the Arabs used Greek as the language of the educated administrator until their devotion to the native language of their holy book, and the destruction of Greco-Roman power, drew them to transform the written tradition they had inherited. Hence, Arabs knew many Greek ideas, and had known them for many centuries before Islam arose. This is why the burden is on the Muslim to show you anything in the Koran that was not already standard knowledge or educated belief in the Mediterranean world when the Koran was written. Until they do so, and do so competently, we are fully justified in ignoring their assertions to the contrary.
Of course, it is claimed that Muhammad was uneducated, and thus the fact that he knew sophisticated ideas, or even writing itself, is miraculous. Besides the fact that this cannot be even remotely proven (the historical documents concerning Muhammad are murky at best), from what we do know the claim is implausible. He was born to a rich and powerful family who controlled the influential trade city of Mecca, which had major and regular connections with Byzantine Egypt, Syria-Palestine, and Persia, all bastions of ancient Hellenized cultures. It is inconceivable that a child of a powerful and wealthy mercantile family, even raised by relatives, would not have received an education. Moreover, Mecca was already populated with large quarters of Hellenized Jews and Christians, with whom Muhammad would have had ample oral contact. Not only is it more than possible for Muhammad to have learned writing and many other Greco-Persian ideas, it is almost certain. There really is no way to prove otherwise, for legend has all but buried the facts.
2. The Koran Gets Cosmology Predictably Wrong
I will address the one example of the claims of "scientific accuracy" in the Koran that I have examined. One Fundamentalist Muslim website (among many) declares that the Koran mentions that the universe originated from a gaseous material. (Koran 41:11). This is a paradigm example of the type of "evidence" that is offered, and one hardly needs to point out why it is unpersuasive--the ambiguity of it is astounding. But in detail:
The idea that the universe began as some sort of gaseous vortex was ubiquitous throughout Persian and Greek ideology. That the Koran says the same thing is thus not at all surprising. Greek philosophers guessed a lot of scientific details correctly--they anticipated atoms, other solar systems, evolution, the laws of thermodynamics, the rain cycle, you name it. That doesn't make them supernaturally prescient, nor does it do so for the Koran.
The Koran fails to say anything about specific gasses, or that there was more than one (helium and hydrogen), or anything scientifically specific at all, like why or how the universe originated or evolved, no mention of scientific-mathematical laws or relationships or physical constants. It thus makes no scientific statement at all. It says something hopelessly vague and unoriginal for its time. Thus, any future scientific finding could be retrofitted to suit what it says. It is thus scientifically useless, and would be even if it were true.
The universe did not begin as a gas. If current Big Bang science is correct, the universe began before any matter of any kind existed--it began as pure energy. It took several moments for any matter to form, and then it was a plasma, not a gas. Gases only came later, after the plasma cooled, and yet gasses were still not the only constituent--much of the mass-energy at even that point, as before, was comprised of electromagnetic radiation--light. The fact that the Koran fails to mention any of this or any other crucial scientific information is precisely why its claim to "scientific accuracy" is to be dismissed. It is making vague metaphysical statements, and that is not science.
The passage in question actually does not say "gaseous material," and here we find the familiar case of the fundamentalist playing fast and loose with language, to twist things into saying precisely what they do not. The Arabic word used is dukhan, "smoke." This is claimed to be a "perfect analogy" for gas and particles in suspension, and the gasses being hot. Is it? Not really. Smoke is made of ash, predominantly carbon, and is produced from burning (oxidation), not plasma condensation. Smoke looks nothing like heated hydrogen or helium, does not share its elemental mass or other properties, and does not even possess many of the general properties of a gas. Thus, it is the wrong word. Arabic could not lack the vocabulary to simply say "hot air" or "hot gases expanding in an empty space" or anything even remotely relevant to the truth. Instead, the author chose the least accurate way of putting it, "smoke." If you can change the meaning of a word at will, and convert a word for "carbon-based ash" into "two basic gases," then you can change the meaning of any word in any book to prove any theory you want. Far from being scientific, that is the very antithesis of science.
The very passage in question is neatly quoted out of context, disguising the fact that the whole section actually clearly and flatly contradicts known science. This point must be driven home in some detail for Muslim deniers to understand it.
So now the real problem: the Koran gets science completely wrong, and does so in a way that makes perfect sense as an idea borrowed from other pre-modern cultures of that place and date. These two facts combine to eliminate any possibility that the Koran is miraculously scientifically prescient, or anything other than the natural product of human imagination. Here is a literal translation, with commentary in parentheses, from a mainstream Muslim website:
[41:9] Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Do you verily disbelieve in Him Who created the earth in two Days and you set up rivals (in worship) with Him? That is the Lord of the Alam" (mankind, jinns and all that exists).
[41:10] He placed therein (i.e. the earth) firm mountains from above it, and He blessed it, and measured therein its sustenance (for its dwellers) in four Days equal (i.e. all these four 'days' were equal in the length of time), for all those who ask (about its creation).
[41:11] Then He istaw (rose over) towards the heaven when it was smoke, and said to it and to the earth: "Come both of you willingly or unwillingly." They both said: "We come, willingly."
[41:12] Then He completed seven heavens in two Days and He made in each heaven its affair. And We adorned the nearest (lowest) heaven with lamps (stars) to be an adornment as well as to guard (from the devils by using them as missiles against the devils). Such is the Decree of Him the All-Mighty, the All-Knower.
The Koran repeats throughout that Allah created everything in six days (e.g. 7:54, 10:3, 11:7, 25:59, 50:38, 57:4), just as the Old Testament says, and here we have those six days broken down into three units of two, and placed in chronological order. Though attempts to "reinterpret" the word "day" in ways that fit scientific knowledge never work (inserting any uniform duration into the story is still incapable of fitting the facts), we will put that aside here and address what is irrefutable: the order of creation clearly given above soundly contradicts firmly-established scientific fact. Verse 41:9 states in no uncertain terms that the earth is made "in two days," and this is the first two days in the list. Verse 41:10 describes the next two days of creation, completing the first "four days equal," in which mountains and plants are made. Thus, we are seeing a clear temporal order: for mountains and plants could not be made before the earth is made, thus 41:10 follows 41:9 in time, so it is only reasonable to conclude that 41:11 and 41:12 continue the temporal progression--which makes sense, since the one heaven could not have been separated into seven heavens and adorned with stars before it was smoke).
But then we see that verse 41:11 establishes an undeniable context in which the universe exists as smoke at the same time that the earth already exists, since God "rose over towards the heaven when it was smoke" and spoke to it and to the earth, therefore no Muslim can rationally deny that this verse clearly says the earth existed at the same time as the smoke. The earth had to exist while the heaven was smoke, or else this sentence would make no sense. So now we see the original claim fall flat on its face: the Koran does not say "that the universe originated" from smoke, certainly not in any way that matches the scientific theory that the universe was once in a gaseous state, since here the "gaseous state" coexists with a fully-formed Earth. That is scientifically impossible: the elements of which planets are comprised did not exist until the gasses condensed into stars, and the stars exploded and recondensed over several cycles, generating the heavy elements that eventually condensed into planets around new stars. Verse 41:11 thus fails to fit any scientific theory of the origins of the cosmos: the earth long post-dated the "gaseous" state of the universe that Muslim Fundamentalists want the word "smoke" to refer to.
It gets worse. Verse 41:12 describes in no uncertain terms the last two days of the six days of creation, since it says in these two days creation was "completed," yet it is only then that stars, the "lamps," adorn the sky. This completely reverses scientific reality: earth could not possibly have existed before stars adorned the sky--no planet could. We know that as a matter of firmly-established fact: for only stars can produce the heavy elements of which planets like the earth are made. Yet the Koran says, with no ambiguity and beyond any shadow of a doubt, that stars appear in heaven after the earth. Any book that says that is simply wrong, and certainly not supernaturally inspired. This alone proves that the book is a human artifact, an ancient work of literature from an age of relative ignorance. It is thus a historical and literary curiosity, not the harbinger of the One True Religion. Consequently, the claims to the contrary by Muslim Fundamentalists can be dismissed without any fear of being unreasonable or irrational. It is they who are being irrational and unreasonable if they deny the obvious.
For example, one Muslim tried the usual fundamentalist tactic of abusing and twisting language contrary to all sense and reason, telling me that the word translated as "then," thumma, in verses 41:11 and 41:12 means "and also" or "moreover" and thus does not denote temporal order, and so 41:9-12 is just a conceptual list given out of chronological order (for no particular reason, of course). But this argument is false, for thumma can in fact mean a chronological "then," and as I have shown the context makes no other interpretation logically possible. But this also entails his own refutation: for if there is no chronology here, then the claim that the universe "originated" as dukhan is not in the Koran at all. By denying the chronological nature of this passage, he denies the very claim he wants to make. It thus does not say anything about the whole universe originating as smoke. If there is no claim, there is no miraculous prediction of scientific fact. But as we have seen, not only is there no such prediction, the passage cannot be understood in any other way than as a plain contradiction of the facts.
We also see how the Koran's failure makes perfect sense in its milieu: the author was merely repeating the false order of creation given in the book of Genesis--earth and mountains and plants first, then the stars. The only variation is in the precise timing: Genesis has stars made on the fourth day, the Koran has it on the fifth and sixth days, etc., but otherwise the concepts are clearly related. Moreover, verse 41:12 repeats a popular superstition found throughout the Greco-Persian world of the day: the myth of the seven heavens. This was an inherent component of almost every pagan religion, and also of Judaism and Christianity, and a clear marker of cultural borrowing, with no practical scientific meaning. Thus, we clearly see the Koran in error here, and we can easily account for this error in natural, human terms. There is nothing more to be said. Indeed, the "seven heavens" motif is a false count of the solar bodies, and even implies geocentrism, since "the seven heavens" are traditionally delineated by the seven "planets," i.e. the sun, moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn. No one yet knew of Uranus, Neptune, or Pluto, much less the asteroid belt. Nor did anyone yet know that the moon is the only body that actually orbits the earth, and that the sun doesn't orbit at all, and thus neither should be classified with the other planets.
Whether the Koran, or the Bible, or any other religious text contains noble ideas is not the point here. Noble ideas stand on their own: they do not need "holy" texts to support them, they do not need miracles, or religious systems or supernatural entities, in order to possess their nobility.
Wisdom is wisdom, from wherever it comes, and for all practical utility we should seek it where it is most carefully and correctly and usefully described and explained. I do not find this to be the case in any religious text. Philosophy has been far more successful at this, with a better grasp of the concept of explanation, definition, and logical analysis and argument. Thus, there is nothing religious texts have to offer that is not better said in philosophical texts. If, then, religious texts like the Koran are all mere human and ancient works of mortal and fallible piety, we should not be obsessed with them, or revere them as anything other than they are: the cultural dogmas of ancient peoples. Instead, we should seek wisdom in reason and logical argument and scientific investigation. Thus, I reject the Koran only because it is a human, fallible, primitive work of a bygone age, ineloquent and inappropriate for our times. It may have other salvageable virtues, in its moral teachings or literary quality or historical interest, but they do not interest me. I find my moral wisdom in better places, and have enough literature and history to occupy and entertain me. So, to all Muslim Fundamentalists out there, do not approach me with assertions of my irrationality. Examine yours instead."
Name:Sassy •
Date: 09/30/08 19:10
A: Some words of wisdom, (except for ignorant radical rigid fundies, of whatever religion), by Rabbi David Cooper (Kabbalah and the practice of mystical Judaism):
“What is God? In a way, there is no God. Our perception of God usually leads to a misunderstanding that seriously undermines our spiritual development.
God is not what we think It is. God is not a thing, a being, a noun. It does not exist, as existence is defined, for It takes up no space and is not bound by time. Jewish mystics often refer to It as Ein Sof, which means Endlessness.
Ein Sof should never be conceptualized in any way. It should not be called Creator, Almighty, Father, Mother, Infinite, the One, Brahma, Buddhamind, Allah, Adonoy, Elohim, El, or Shaddai; and It should never, never be called He. It is none of these names, and It has no gender.
When we call It God, what are we talking about? If we say that It is compassionate, full of lovingkindness, the source of love, we may be talking about our image of what we think the divine nature ought to be, but we are not talking about Ein Sof. In the same way, if we say that the God portrayed in the Bible is vindictive, jealous, angry, cruel, uncaring or punitive, we cannot be referring to Ein Sof. Ein Sof includes every attribute but cannot be defined by any of them individually or all of them combined.
The mystery of the origin of the universe has fascinated human consciousness from the beginning of recorded history. In all cultures of the world we find the timeless inquiries: Is there a creator, and if so, what is its nature? If not, how did creation begin, and what is its purpose?
Mystics teach that there is a universal connection among all things; modern science offers the same message. This connection has various names. Some say it is a soul force, others call it love; the ancients called it ether, science often names it energy. Yet although there is general agreement that there seems to be a fundamental nature in the continuous unfolding of the universe, our relationship to the core of this nature has been a matter of considerable debate.
Jewish mystics are particularly concerned about naming the universal connection. People confuse names with identities… Giving a name to the nameless creates a stumbling block that trips most people. We think that if something has a name, it has an identity. An identity comes with attributes. So we think we know something about it. This is a mistake.
For thousands of years this mistake has become ingrained in the human psyche. The word ‘God’ suggests an embodiment of something that can be grasped. We have given a name to the Unknown and Unknowable and then have spent endless time trying to know It. We try because It has a name; but we must always fail because It is unknowable. Judaism is so concerned about this misunderstanding that it goes to great lengths to avoid naming God. Yet various names seep through because our minds cannot work without symbols.
Kabbalists teach that the very first line of Genesis has been mistranslated. Most people think it says: ‘In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.’ But the actual words in Hebrew can be read another way. A Kabbalist could say: ‘With a beginning, [It] created God [Elohim], the heavens and the earth.’ That is to say, out of Nothingness the potential to begin was created – Beginningness. Once there was a beginning, God (in a plural form) was created – a God to which the rest of creation could relate. Then the heavens and the earth were created.
The implication of this interpretation profoundly affects our entire relationship with God and creation, for it says that all the names we have for God and all the ways in which we relate to God are a few degrees reomoved from the source of creation that precedes even Nothingness. This is called Ein Sof, which is not the name of a thing, but is an ongoing process.”
Ein Sof seems to echo the Tao; mysterious and nameless; unknowable. Cool. I like it.
Name:Judith •
Date: 09/30/08 19:32
A: Bless you all
Sassy , I think "Tom and Jerry " is an alcoholic drink. It may be a mix that goes into drinks, but not being a drinker I am not sure.
Got to love this Sassy LOL
hmm.... I posted nothing by Tom and Jerry, whomever that may be....
I also don't like bullies, who make demands - demands I thus choose to ignore.... ah yes, it's just another case of the patriarchal 'fragile male ego' and the 'fear of the feminine.'
Sassy
The works of the Greeks were known in the Arab and North African world for a thousand years before Islam, and Islam began translating Greek texts into Arabic within a century of its military conquests.
To Archearologists surprise, when they did that dig at the Temple of Marib, that is suspected to be the Moon Goddess Temple of the Queen of Sheba, there is a plaque writtien in Greek. No one even thought that could be possible for she was before the time of actual Greek inscritpitons.
I want also want to thank you for your input.
Name:Sassy •
Date: 09/30/08 21:02
A: Thanks Judith. And thanks for answering the whole wave question Sam was flippin' out about - you answered it quite wisely; I didn't mean to ignore you !
Yes, archaeology is often surprised - because they often go in with 'male supremacy assumptions', and thus when something doesn't support it, they twist it around until it does, or else just ignore it. There were also a couple of large, winged goddess statues discovered in Iran awhile back - but it didn't generate a whole lot of attention, since it didn't 'fit' the male supremacy assumption.
And unfortunately, most 'digs' are run by men - rarely women; so one wonders what else is being hidden or ignored or re-interpreted to fit the 'status quo.' ? Mind you, not all men are sexist - James Tabor isn't; and he is one of the directors of the Mt.Zion dig.
Name:Judith •
Date: 10/01/08 2:27
A: Hello Sassy , I think the statues you mentioned are in the Book "Through the Desert in Search of the Legernday Queen Sheba" by Nicholas Clapp Author of the Road to "Ubar"
If not , I do know I read it some place , that that's a good book and so was "Innan Lady of the Largest Heart" about Ennheudanna a female priestess who was the first to write poetry as we know it. Not to say there will never be more found but she was ahead of the Priest by far. She worshiped Innana
Blessings to all
Name:Sassy •
Date: 10/01/08 22:02
A: Judith, the winged goddesses I’m referring to –and just to note, they found four, not two!- were discovered three years ago; here’s the article I found from BurakEldem.com - there's other interesting things said here, too:
“ Winged Goddess of Iran “
“ Monday, 17 October 2005
Though the mainstream media has apparently missed it (or underestimated its importance), some very exciting archaeological news arrived last weekend from Iran: "The recent excavations in Rabat Teppe archaeological site in Sardasht, Northwestern Iran, led to discovery of four icons of winged goddesses on bricks which belong to 3000 years ago." Why is this discovery so important and exciting? Because, as it is stated in the news bulletin, these are the first ever winged goddess icons found in Iran and it reveals a long hidden fact about the origins of a tradition: The roots of the ancient Persian belief system, which has always been considered by scholars, to be under the obvious dominancy of male deities, was definitely a part (or a branch) of the wide spread and prestigious "Goddess Cult" of the ancient world.
Archaeologist Reza Haydari says: "This kind of icons has never been seen in any Iranian archaeological site before. These icons are unique and have no counterpart even in Persepolis. In Persepolis there is no sign of women." According to him, "the found icons are women with haunches that are similar to deer or cow. Each one of the four goddesses has 2 raised wings."
Deer and cow? Does this remind us of something else from the depths of the ancient cosmologies and religious cults? Any mythology enthusiast would definitely remember the mighty Egyptian Goddess, a deity who was dominant during the Old Kingdom and her traces can be traced back to the pre-dynastic period: Hathor. Her epithet was the "Celestial Cow" and she was the protective deity who nourished her children, the humanity with her many breasts. You can easily spot the similarity between Hathor icons and those just founded in Iran. Was she the only example to a great winged goddess of the ancient times? Definitely, no. Her counterpart in Mesopotamia, Ninmah or Ninhursag was symbolized with a cow too. The protective and nourishing Mother Goddess is the most ancient and most powerful figure of the Near Eastern civilizations, since the early neolithic settlements of Catalhoyuk in Central Anatolia.
In my upcoming book (to be out in early 2006) I pointed out some very obvious evidence and revealed a "covered fact" about the origins of Persian deity Mithra.
Contrary to the dominant opinion of scholars, Mithra was originally not a male deity but a Supreme Goddess of Western Iran, which had had very strong relations with the Kybele of Anatolia and Magna Mater of Pessinus. The male dominant Zarathustra cult, which lies in the foundation of dogmatic "monotheistic" religions of today, manipulated the ancient cosmology and Mithra suddenly became a male "solar" deity around the 6th century BCE. Interestingly, Mithra has always been a common female name in Iran, which indicates that whatever the dominant patriarchy had imposed, people had never gave up the tradition. Today, you can see many women in Iran named Mithra (and not a single male.)
This new excavations and discoveries in Rabat Teppe seem to approve my thesis: Four centuries before Zarathustra, there had been a Winged Goddess in Persia as a supreme deity and a counterpart of Anatolian Mother Goddess, Frigian Kybele, Egyptian Hathor, Sumerian Ninhursag, Artemis of Ephesus and Magna Mater, until the dogmatic mixture of Zoroastrian-Judaic male-oriented religions aggressively invaded the culture of human civilization. “
Name:sam •
Date: 10/04/08 17:12
A: Dear Judith,
You wrote :“There have been divers long before Solomon and Sheba , we know the Queen of Sheba had Pearls from Indonesia and, there are under CURRENTS.
Divers Knew of those and that was approximately Fifteen Hundred years , before the time that book was written.” as an answer for my question about the WAVES in the depth below the WAVES of the surface of the sea.
WHAT AN ANSWERS .
First , if you ARE an educated person you should know the difference between the WAVE and the CURRENT. THE WAVES ARE NOT CURRENTS, AND THE CURRENTS ARE NOT WAVES, I hope you understand the different between them.
THE OXFORD DICTIONARY:
CURRENT - Body of water moving in definite direction.
WAVE - Body of water curling into ARCHED form.
We all know that the waves are on the surface of the water [sea or ocean], WHY ?, because we can see that by using our sights.
DIVERS, at the time of Solomon and Sheba [and before & after] and until the 19 century, they knew about the currents and the waves, but they never knew the fact that there are waves in THE DEEP SEAS AND OCEANS.
Can you bring any written scientific proof about the discoveries of inner waves from the time of SOLOMON & SHEBA until the time 1969 ?.
That is what was written in the Quran : “like darkness within AN UNFATHOMABLE SEA WHICH IS COVERED BY WAVES, UPON WHICH ARE WAVES,
Can you see that what was mentioned here is clear,
1- UNFATHOMABLE SEA . That is in the deep sea and not on the shore, few hundred meters from land..
2- COVERED BY WAVES, UPON WHICH ARE WAVES, It is clear here that Waves were mentioned and not CURRENTS.
Those information came before 1400 years, and the Prophet never lived close to the sea or been near the sea, and He did not read or write, and He had no contact with the Greeks or the Romans or the Persians as some claim that he took His information from those sources. After many years from His death the Muslims started to translate the Greek and Roman books to the Arabic language, YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS FACT IF YOU STUDIED HISTORY.
THE PROOF TO WHAT CAME IN THE QURAN IS TRUE, CAME FROM NASA IN 1969: Here the first discovery of the inner waves and for the FIRST TIME as it was written by the captain of THE RESEARCH SUBMARINE IN HIS LOG BOOK.
The research submarine that went into the Golf stream for one month and recorded million of scientific information, and everyone of the crews describe the voyage. And here came one to describe the waves in the deep sea . The sub Ben Franklin was launched at the time when the first rocket launched to put the first man on the moon.
Judith, You can read the captain and the other crew words and see his hand drawings for the total journey, day by day.
Here how to get to NASA sight:
1-search... ben franklin research submarine.
2- click on ...the ben franklin-grumman/piccard px -15 submersible.
3- click on .... Ben Franklin captain’s log
Here few line from this site:
Ben Franklin: Captain's Log
Ben Franklin Gulf Stream Drift Mission Report
Grumman Aerospace Corporation
Ocean Systems Department
Document OSR-69-19
The following is a very condensed version of the Captain's Log
written by Captain Don Kazimir and published in the
Ben Franklin Gulf Stream Drift Mission Report,
describing how the mission progressed day-by-day and
highlighting some of the most significant events.
The hand-drawn figures were part of the very detailed
and lavishly illustrated logbook kept by Erwin Aebersold,
engineer and pilot onboard Ben Franklin.
Thereafter a day by day records and each day is followed by a chart (drawing by the captain pen). Started on 14 July 1969 and ended on 14 August 1969.
On 23 July 1969 the drawing shows the waves on the surface, and below at the depth of about 200 meter the internal waves.
Under the drawing the captain wrote:
Today we were drifting at 200 meters, about 100 miles east of
Charleston, South Carolina. For a short period, internal waves {INTERNAL WAVES}
were noted at 1000 hours. The boat sometimes changes depth of40 meters in wave periods of 15 minutes.
All the scientific information which the Quran brought 1400 years ago, they came to be known later on, and after many year, and AFTER TIME, and that is what the Quran say:
38:88 And you will surely know THE TRUTH OF ITS INFORMATION AFTER TIME.
This not the only one example , but there are many others and I will bring them later on.
I do not just write, when I write my posts on this forums, I do understand what I am dealing with, and always I can support what I bring by facts from the highest scientific sources from the 20 & 21st century, and I do not regard the sources which came from old books which were written by the people who know nothing about the truth of the world which we live in as good scientific sources. You live in the 21st century and you should know better.
About the :“the ancient Persian belief system, & the winged goddesses of Iran [Persia] , the ancient Persian belief system.” I will give my answer to them in my next post.
Name:hanmom •
Date: 10/05/08 12:35
A: Besides this issue....
Oh My God!
Look at the symbol of Alpha & Omega Above the Tomb!
Revelation 1:08
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."
Revelation 21:06
He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life.
Name:Judith •
Date: 10/05/08 22:02
A: Hello Sassy and you to Rude Sam
Sam a wave that is under another wave is called a Tidal Wave and I wish you would quit calling people stupid.
There were others who studied the oceans long before the Quarn , The Chinese have the oldest maps of oceans in the history of man as far as I recall.
http://members.tripod.com/Esote-ricTexts07/TheCelts.htm
However,- the knowledge possessed by the initiates was transmitted entirely orally, often in the form of verse or a kind of limerick. In the case of Homer’s works, this technique has helped considerably to preserve the original text without too many modifications. One has the impression that the powerful rhythm of Homeric verse also reflects the movements of the Ocean waves, but this effect is unfortunately lost in prose translations.
Name:sam •
Date: 10/06/08 1:55
A: Hello Judith,
First, I am sorry that you felt that way.
Second, I do respect you and all the others who write in this forums.
Third, a person who doesn't know geography or history or cannot read or write IS NOT A STUPID, BUT NOT EDUCATED in geography , history and did not have the chance to go to school, while he can be very SMART.
You said : "and I wish you would quit calling people stupid. "
---
And you are wrong, I never called people stupid, and there is big difference between the two terms "the stupid, and non educated"and you should know this fact.
The Oxford dictionary:
STUPID: Unintelligent.
UNEDUCATED: Not instructed; not provided with schooling.
I hope you know the difference now.
I will bring what I wrote again, and no mention of the word "STUPID" in it.
"if you .........ARE an educated person...... you should know the difference between the WAVE and the CURRENT"
Judith, and after you said: "Sam a wave that is under another wave is called a Tidal Wave "
The Oxford dictionary:
TIDAL WAVE: Exceptionally large OCEAN WAVE 'attributed to earthquake'.
There is a difference between the TIDAL WAVES and the INNER WAVES.
THE TIDAL WAVE OCCUR AFTER AN EARTHQUAKE. {no earthquake...no waves}
THE INNER WAVES ARE THERE ALL THE TIME LIKE THE SURFACE WAVES, AND THEY ARE NOT A PART OF AN EARTHQUAKE.
After you said: "There were others who studied the oceans long before the Quarn , The Chinese have the oldest maps of oceans in the history of man as far as I recall. "
"MAPS OF OCEANS !!!".
That is wrong: here what I read about the oldest Chinese map:
"A group of scientists appraising artifacts in the Hebei Provincial Museum at Shijiazhuang, Hebei Province, China, have discovered that a quarter-inch thick copper plate bears the world's oldest map clearly marked with distances. The 2,300-year-old map marks the locations of buildings in the five mausoleums of Wang Cuo (344-313 B.C.), his queen, and his concubines."
It is a land map and not sea map. and another map:
"Babylonian clay tablet that has been generally accepted as "the earliest known map" is the artifact unearthed in 1930 at the excavated ruined city of Ga-Sur at Nuzi [Yorghan Tepe], near the towns of Harran and Kirkuk, 200 miles north of the site of Babylon [present-day Iraq]. Small enough to fit in the palm of your hand (7.6 x 6.8 cm), most authorities place the the date of this map-tablet from the dynasty of Sargon of Akkad (2,300-2,500 B.C.); although, again, there is the conflicting date offered by the distinguished Leo Bagrow of the Agade Period (3,800 B.C.). The surface of the tablet is inscribed with a map of a district bounded by two ranges of hills and bisected by a water-course."
This is only a land map for two hills and a river.
Very early in history people they came to draw map for the land around them for the others to know their way in traveling, towns rivers hills, mountain, then after with the growing of knowledge they stated maping the shores of the seas and after the seas AND THE SHORES OF OCEANS {NOT THE OCEANS} themselves, THAT CAME MUCH LATER ON.
Making maps for the seas and oceans does not give the full knowledge about the seas and oceans, that need a study called "OCEANOGRAPHY", AND THAT NEED A LOT OF WORK WITH ADVANCE TECHNOLOGY, and that started in the late of the 18th cebtury.
Here an example of such a work:
"AOML's mission is to conduct basic and applied research in oceanography, tropical meteorology, atmospheric and oceanic chemistry, and acoustics. The research seeks to understand the physical characteristics and processes of the ocean and the atmosphere, both separately and as a coupled system. "
The Chinese, the Indian, the Persian, the Greek, the Roman, the Arab, the Jews, the Christian, the Muslim, none of them has much or any knowledge about the deep seas and oceans, and the inner waves which was mentioned by the Quran was known to any nation or any religion and came to be known only in the 1969 by NASA.
Name:sonofjesus •
Date: 10/07/08 2:12
A: OK, so let's say Jesus had a son. Let's just assume that son is mentioned in Revelation 13 when the dragon tries to get him and God protects him. After all, it's a "male" child spoken of there. Didn’t God promise David his seed would be on earth to take his place at any one time forever? Psalms 89:29, Psalm 132:11, 2Samuel 7:12-16- 12. Wouldn’t that son also have a son? And his son have a son? And all the sons have sons till this day. Could it be possible? Would that son not be entitled to the throne? Of course, mankind would only accept a son from Jesus who was in high places and not some lowlife meek soul who struggles daily to survive. He’d have to be someone great wouldn’t you think? Just as Jesus was a great soul in high station in his day. Oh wait a second, that’s right, Jesus was a NOBODY before he was made known to this world now wasn’t he? LOL. Fact is, you are correct. Jesus did have a son. He was married. Marriage is not a piece of paper or a ceremony. It's a "I LOVE YOU" with God present. Read the story of how Isaac got married. Whether the son's name was Judah or not only God knows. And the seed of him walks this world today. And that very same seed shall be the messiah this world waits for. Who I assume you wait for. Sad thing is, the world will never accept a messiah. They will try do to him just as they did to his forefather 2000 years ago. If you had a chance to meet that son would you want to? Knowing that if you did you would have God’s eye upon you constantly? I doubt this world will be ready. I know this world isn't ready. Not pretty what must take place in order for mankind to live on. Sadly. We are starting to feel the breakdown now. And it won't stop till that son nobody will listen to is made known.
Name:Judith •
Date: 10/07/08 8:34
A: Hello again Sam , I am sure it may be pure speculation , but it has been questioned , and that is "Did Europe get their Ocean Map from China?" there are very old stories that Christopher Columbus got a map of what they called the New World from a Norseman, who had it handed down and was originally a Chinese Map.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/-sultan/archeology2.html
Asia'-s- Undersea Archeology
Part 2 | Back to Part 1
Evidence from South Korea
How typical or representative was the Quanzhou ship of Asian ships of its time? While the process of archeological comparison has only begun and will require more data, additional information is available from two important shipwreck sites in South Korea.
From 1976 to 1982, archeologists excavated a rich cargo from a submerged wreck near Shinan, and this initial work was followed by excavation and recovery of the ship's remaining structure. These remains are now undergoing conservation treatment at the Mokpo Conservation and Restoration Center of South Korea's Cultural Properties Research Institute, and a one-fifth-scale model has been built at the Mokpo Center to aid in the analysis of the ship's structure. Experts dated the shipwreck to 1323 using an associated wooden cargo tag and coins, the latest of which were minted in 1310 and may be of South Chinese origin.
So far, this ship's cargo has attracted the most attention. The cargo included at least 16,000 ceramic items and over seven million brass-bronze coins (totaling over 26 tons). These coins provided a dramatic example of recycling and reuse in the archeological record, since the oldest coin in this collection dated to A.D. 14.
Name:Judith •
Date: 10/07/08 8:42
A: sonofjesus
If he did come no one would believe him , most have such high expectations and others have , just plain silly ideas of who , or what he would be like, and or dress.
Your right, the world would do the same as was done once before.
Name:sonofjesus •
Date: 10/07/08 15:17
A: Judith, read this please, it's about that son I do believe: Isaiah 52:13-
13 Look! My servant will act with insight. He will be in high station and will certainly be elevated and exalted very much. 14 To the extent that many have stared at him in amazement—so much was the disfigurement as respects his appearance more than that of any other man and as respects his stately form more than that of the sons of mankind— 15 he will likewise startle many nations. At him kings will shut their mouth, because what had not been recounted to them they will actually see, and to what they had not heard they must turn their consideration
Name:sam •
Date: 10/07/08 16:50
A: Dear Judith,
You said: "I am sure it may be pure speculation , but it has been questioned "
---- What was the speculation about, and what is the thing which was questioned?, WAS IT ABOUT THE QURAN AND THE VERSE WHICH MENTIONED THE INNER WAVES , please explain.
"Did Europe get their Ocean Map from China?" there are very old stories "
---- We are in the 21st century, and we do deppend on science and logic, and not on Old stories, old stories are just old stories and has no scientific value in them if they were not supported by real proof.
"South Korea...From 1976 to 1982, archeologists excavated a rich cargo from a submerged wreck near Shinan......tag and coins, the latest of which were minted in 1310 and may be of South Chinese origin."
---- This, and many thousands of archeological excavations that took place all around the world today. Bringing this does not prove anything, since I and many people who are interrested in scientific know of many of such findings, and it is a part of discovering the truth about the history of the people who roamed the seas.
-------------------------------------------
Judith,
To- support your answer to the question of the inner waves , you bring what been written by people [Chinese, Persian, etc.] before thousands of years ago as if they had more knowledge than NASA , even we all know that their knowledge were very primitive compared with today’s knowledge .
And the Quran mentioned the people who does that, and here the EXAMPLE:
8:31 AND WHEN OUR VERSES ARE RECITED TO THEM, THEY SAY, “ WE HAVE HEARD. IF WE WILLED, WE COULD SAY SOMETHING LIKE THIS. THIS IS NOT BUT LEGENDS OF THE FORMER PEOPLE.” [this is true]
Also, the Quran said:
29:43 AND THESE EXAMPLES WE REPRESENT TO THE PEOPLE, BUT NONE WILL UNDERSTAND THEM EXCEPT THOSE OF KNOWLEDGE. [That is the truth.]
One example mentioned in the Quran about THE INNER WAVES and the darkness in the deep sea, and that was given to describe the people who do not believe in God’s words, and those who live in the dark.
Also, God gave many examples about those who do not believe in HIM, and about those who think that their sole will not go back to HIM, and the one who believe that they can escape.
86:1-4 BY THE SKY AND THE NIGHT COMER - AND WHAT CAN MAKE YOU KNOW WHAT IS THE NIGHT COMER?, IT IS THE PIERCING STAR - THERE IS NO SOUL BUT THAT IT HAS OVER IT A PROTECTOR.
86:8 INDEED, HE (GOD), TO RETURN HIM, IS ABLE.
Here a mention to a PIERCING STAR. That came 1400 years ago.
We all know today that the stars and the trillions of them are the same as our SUN, and some stars are bigger than our sun.
Judith , You think our knowledge today of the universe and the stars were known to the people of China, and Persia, or the Greeks and the Romans and the Arabs many hundreds of years ago, or even before 500 year ago [THAT IS ABOUT THEIR SIZES, AND THEIR DISTANCE FROM THE EARTH, AND FROM EACH OTHER, OR ABOUT THEIR GRAVITY POWER]?.
Do you believe that there is a PIERCING STAR AMONG THE STARS as been mentioned in the Quran?, or if there is a BLACK HOLE ?, AND WHAT IS THE BLACK HOLE?.
Those are valid and important questions, to come to the truth, and I do appreciate your answer.
I do learn from you, and I hope you share your opinion with me and the others.
Thank you in advance.
-----------------------------------------
Here- some information about the black hole from the NASA site:
"Scientists believe that most galaxies have a supermassive black hole at the center. The mass of each of those objects is thought to be between 1 million and 1 billion solar masses. Astronomers suspect that supermassive black holes formed several billion years ago from gas that accumulated in the centers of the galaxies. "
"Black Holes: What Are They?
Black holes are the evolutionary endpoints of STARS at least 10 to 15 times as massive as the Sun. If a star that massive or larger undergoes a supernova explosion, it may leave behind a fairly massive burned out stellar remnant. With no outward forces to oppose gravitational forces, the remnant will collapse in on itself. The star eventually collapses to the point of zero volume and infinite , creating what is known as a SINGULARITY . As the density increases, the path of light rays emitted from the star are bent and eventually wrapped irrevocably around the star. Any emitted photons are trapped into an orbit by the intense gravitational field; they will never leave it. Because NO LIGHT ESCAPES after the star reaches this infinite density, it is called a black hole."
"The black hole candidate in Andromeda is big -- 30 million times more massive than our Sun -- but it's not a record setter. Some active galaxies appear to harbor black holes in their nucleus that register between 100 million and a billion solar masses. " WOW...WOW.
Name:Judith •
Date: 10/07/08 16:58
A: sonofjesus
All priests and prophets where considered Gods servants, I don't know if Jesus was disfigured or stately, that is a contradiction in that verse. Actually what appears to be a contradiction may have a priestly explanation, but you would have had to be in that position and in that frame of mind of their times, their ways.
Blessings
Name:Judith •
Date: 10/07/08 17:02
A: Hello Sam
I did explain that, the story in history is that "Christopher Columbus had and ancient map, the map was given to him by a Norseman. " This information was handed down and the map was said to be ancient when Columbus got it. The map was said to be done by Chinese. It is the map that Christopher supposedly used to find American Shores.
Name:Judith •
Date: 10/07/08 17:34
A: Dear Sam [ I have not studied astronomy or astrology, I do think your stretching verses to fit, but there are other explanations and Shaman have spoken of that experience. Not just in Quran, all highly developed well seasoned , Shaman, took a non physical trip to the so called Heavens
That includes Sufi, Prophets, Monks, Goddess's, Judges, Priests, Mages, and Sages,,,ect. Now this I know for a fact, and it can not be proved, so I won't bother to go into it.
Bless you Sam
Name:sonofjesus •
Date: 10/08/08 4:57
A: Judith, that verse doesn't talk about Jesus. It talks about now. It talks about the one coming which this world waits on who is here yet not raised up. Isaiah 59:15-19 goes into with more depth about God having to raise someone up to be like a Moses and reign in his people.
Isaiah 59:15 And the truth proves to be missing, and anyone turning away from badness is being despoiled. And God got to see, and it was bad in his eyes that there was no justice. 16 And when he saw that there was no man, he began to show himself astonished that there was no one interposing. And his arm proceeded to save for him, and his own righteousness was the thing that supported him.
God looks down on mankind and freaks out that there is no one he can turn to like he did Moses. No one is righteous right now. NONE! Not you. not me. Not anyone. Yet there will be. And he is the seed from Jesus whom this world will reject as they did his father. Thus the battle of Armageddon between him and the antichrist will take place. With Jesus at the helm. So they say. No matter, what shall be shall be and what is going to happen will happen. Nothing you nor I or anyone of mankind can get in the way of wehat God knows will come. Our recent times of distess are just the beginning. More ugly to come...guaranteed!
Name:dylanrees88 •
Date: 10/08/08 20:11
A: Jesus have a wife?
according to the bible no...but this jesus in this tomb may had a wife...
there is no proof this is THEEE Jesus we are looking for, things like this happen, i bet there are people out there with my famly name and probably have pearents the same name as mine....doesn't mean they are relaited either
if your looking for jesus' family then they must be in nazareth,
Noticed--]JESUS OF NAZARETH...i live in Wales...if i was born in Bangor city..and was working in the capital Cardiff.....when I die, i would probably be returned to Bangor at least, f i had a wife in cardiff, got married in cardiff, i should be buried in my hometown bangor ..by christian tradition....
Jesus' family are in Nazareth not Jerusalem....we have no exact proof this is THE tomb of the Jesus we are looking for, the name mary magdalene is argued the bible names her mary magdalene both in english and hebrew, therefore, its no proof its actually mary magdalene, if it was, who says its THE mary magdalene we are looking for...
i suggest they look towards nazareth aswell! there must be a tomb there belonging to he's mother and step father joseph and he's family....
Name:dylanrees88 •
Date: 10/08/08 20:22
A: i forgot to mention....
joseph and mary would have been buried together since they are husband and wife....with there family, not in some other city, search nazareth and galilee also, not jerusalem, there waisting time, these people could be someone else, we dont know yet till we look to there homeland.../place of birth
Name:Judith •
Date: 10/08/08 22:29
A: Jesus was not born in NAZARETH he was born in Bethlehem. He was a Nazarene, of the Nazar Priesthood and Nazar means King
Name:sam •
Date: 10/10/08 3:30
A: Hello Judith,
Thank you for your answer.
In your answer there are few point that I would like to explain.
1- I do think your stretching verses to fit,
------ We might say you are right if that fit in one [1] verse, but there are many verses, those who brought scientific information, and all fit with today scientific discoveries. I will bring another verse in this post.
------ the contrary is true, and that is what you are trying to do by bringing Tidal Wave , as the inner waves, then after you said There were others who studied the oceans long before the Quarn and that is not true, and you admitted the fact that you do no know about all this thing when at last you said,
a- all highly developed well seasoned , Shaman, took a non physical trip to the so called Heavens
---Did anyone described the heaven which they been in, and where is heaven, or how far is heaven???.
b- That includes Sufi, Prophets, Monks, Goddess's, Judges, Priests, Mages, and Sages,,,ect. Now this I know for a fact,
---- You said you know for a fact , ARE YOU SURE?, and can you prove it, by bringing real documentation, and not by telling old stories. Do you believe in everything written without analyze it and see if it can be accepted scientifically and logically ?.
The Quran is a book written 1400 years ago, and not even one word has been changed in that book since then.
Judith, Those verses which I brought to your attention, at first I have doubt about them myself, and I did not believe that there are INNER WAVES in the deep seas , also I doubt that there is a PIERCING STAR in the universe, THAT IS BECAUSE I DO NOT ACCEPT EVERYTHING until it became proven either by science or by logic, and at the beginning I thought my doubt is the right thing.
As for the INNER WAVE, and after I saw the documentary on the National Geographic channel, then I read the article on NASA site, and I read the Captain log book and saw his hand drawings showing the inner waves at the depth of 200meter, then I became convinced that what was written about it in the Quran is true.
The same doubt about the PIERCING STAR, that is until I read all about it many years ago at the NASA & the HUBBLE sites.
Two interesting things about the NASA/HUBBLE [THE BLACK HOLE] , and about the verse in the QURAN [THE PIERCING STAR].
First, THE BLACK HOLE, The30 million times more massive than our Sun ...[EVEN THE LIGHT CANNOT ESCAPE FROM IT] . all that show clearly how great is this star, and how powerful it is.
Second,GOD gave this example:
Q- 86:1-4 BY THE SKY AND THE NIGHT COMER - AND WHAT CAN MAKE YOU KNOW WHAT IS THE NIGHT COMER?, IT IS THE PIERCING STAR
{Here we see that God swear by THE NIGHT COMER THE PIERCING STAR, THE STAR WHICH SO POWERFUL THAT NO ONE EVER SEEN NOT IN THE PAST AND NOT IN THE FUTURE. }
THERE IS NO SOUL BUT THAT IT HAS OVER IT A PROTECTOR.
{As the star of the BLACK HOLE, THE PIERCING STAR protect the light from escaping, so is every HUMAN SOLE is protected by GOD'S POWER and will not escape.}
86:8 INDEED, HE (GOD), TO RETURN HIM, IS ABLE.
{God who created everything in our world is able to return the sole.}
NO ONE EVER KNEW BEFORE ABOUT THIS POWERFUL STAR, AND GOD GAVE US AN EXAMPLE TO SUCH A STAR 1400 YEARS AGO .
38:88 AND YOU WILL SURELY KNOW THE TRUTH OF ITS INFORMATION * AFTER TIME.
God told us in advance that one day in the future [AFTER TIME] we will know the truth of the information that HE gave in the many example. Here, and today THE INNER WAVES, AND THE PIERCING * STAR are facts and not myths or fantasy
Q- 18:54 And WE have certainly diversified in this Quran for the people from EVERY KIND OF EXAMPLE; but man has ever been, most of anything, [prone to] DISPUTE.
{That is true, and you are an example to that.}
No one knows about this kind of stars before it was discovered by NASA and by using the most advanced scientific instruments only few years ago. So please do not stretch too far back to bring the old stories from China and Persia and not even from the Jews or the Christians, because all of them they knew the stars just as small objects lighting in the sky.
“and it can not be proved, so I won't bother to go into it.”
---- Those two verses from the Quran were proven by scientific information which came from NASA and others.
“but there are other explanations and Shaman have spoken of that experience. Not just in Quran, all highly developed well seasoned , Shaman, took a non physical trip to the so called Heavens
That includes Sufi, Prophets, Monks, Goddess's, Judges, Priests, Mages, and Sages,,,ect. Now this I know for a fact, and it can not be proved, so I won't bother to go into it.”
------I know for fact.....cannot be proved !!!.
My question : “can you accept what cannot be proven ?”
The non physical experience which those people claim are just pure lies, and we should not forget Paul and the Emperor Constantine visions, which are big lies but billions read them and follow them !!!.
Blessing
Name:Judith •
Date: 10/10/08 3:31
A: Dear Sam in answer to your question
Mark 13:25/26 And THE STARS WILL BE FALLING FROM HEAVEN, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken. THEN they will see THE SON OF MAN [JESUS] COMING IN CLOUDS with great power and glory.
The priestly cast had terminology of their own:
Proverbs 25:14 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
14 Like clouds and wind without rain
is a man who boasts of gifts he does not give.
So the clouds Jesus is making reference to are people with rain or water as some Bibles read. Those who claim the gifts they don't have boast of falsehood , those who have those gifts rarely boast.
Name:dylanrees88 •
Date: 10/10/08 20:25
A: yes judith, i know jesus was born in bethlehem, i must have mis-printed my points...
the point is he grew up, and lived in nazareth the hometown of Joseph, there is a possibility that he's family's tomb is in Nazareth or Galilee rather than Jerusalem, but I think they should bring there research towards Nazareth,
Mary Madalene, known to Jesus' deciples as Mary of Magdala, is probably buried in Magdala, just because they died in Jerusalem does not prove they would be buried there.
if there was such thing as God, and Satan, then religious groups would argue that Satan wrote it to fool us...what do u reckon...
Name:dylanrees88 •
Date: 10/10/08 21:08
A: also i was reading this site.. http://christiancadre.blogspot.com/2007/02/acts--of-philip-mariamne-and-jesus-tomb.html
ther-e- is a difference to the name Mariamene written on the ossuary to Acts of Philipp's version of Mariamme
could this be reliable?
Name:Judith •
Date: 10/10/08 21:31
A: dylanrees88
ther-e- is a difference to the name Mariamene written on the ossuary to Acts of Philipp's version of Mariamme
could this be reliable?
No one knows for sure , and it could be just as reliable as any other materials on the subject. Not all were buried in the towns they were born in. As far as the spelling of Magdalene's name that to is subject to debate for not all people knew how to write, and not all who did know how to write, do the same as we can see in our own English Language. You can have a Vender or a Vendor same word or Potato and Potatoe, both are correct. I could come up with other examples , but I am sure you understood it.
Name:sonofjesus •
Date: 10/11/08 3:08
A: everyones a prophet for their own god. amazing. And then we wonder why our world is collapsing! Oh well, gotta happen. I tried for many years to convince souls of my God who is real but for some reason no one listened. lol. No one really truly wants to know God or have him present. I mean, he isn't the chump mankind wants him to be. He's tough as nails and gonna kick some mankind butts this time around so everyone runs from him and makes up their own gods in the hope that it becomes real. lol. You say Jesus isn't allowed to be married. why isn't he allowed? Where does it say its a sin to be married? Oh that's right, if he was married God would have said so and if he did have a real son God would let everyone know huh. lol. Yeah right. This world we have is tiring.
Name:Judith •
Date: 10/11/08 4:32
A: sonofjesus
you sound stress out. In fact Jesus could have been married. There is plenty of evidence that looks as if he was. It was 300 years later that a Church decided he was not married. Before that no one seemed to give it much thought.
Name:sam •
Date: 10/11/08 22:46
A: Hello Judith,
THE NEW TEATAMENT :That is what MARK wrote;
Mark 13:25/26 And THE STARS WILL BE FALLING FROM HEAVEN, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken. THEN they will see THE SON OF MAN [JESUS] COMING IN CLOUDS with great power and glory.
And you try to make the "CLOUDS" from this verse to fits [correct] by bringing THE OLD TESTAMENT "CLOUDS:
Proverbs 25:14 Like clouds and wind without rain
is a man who boasts of gifts he does not give.
So the clouds Jesus is making [!!!] reference to are people with rain or water as some Bibles read [!!!].
First, You mentioned the clouds, but you pass the STARS which will fall on the earth. WHY?. There is nothing about falling stars in the O.T. ?
Second, The clouds Jesus is making !. Did Jesus mention that He is the one who make the clouds?.
Jesus said: "I CAN DO NOTHING ON MY OWN INITIATIVE.......BUT THE WiII OF HIM [GOD] WHO SENT ME.
{It is very clear , from what Jesus says in the above verses, that He is the son of man , and as a slave [messenger] to God, and He has no power except what He recieve from His master [God].}
This what MATTHEW wrote;
4:5 Then the devil taketh him [Jesus] up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written ...
4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
{LOGICICAL QUESTION..... can anyone sees all the kingdom of the world by standing on the Highest mountains ? can anyone see all India and Egypt from that point?. The story is false from biggining to end.}
4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
WHAT A SILLY STORY !!!.
---- Matthew in his story makes the DEVIL has more power and knowledge than God and Jesus !.
---- The story tells us that the DEVIL took JESUS ONLY in that long trip. There was no one else with them, and since Jesus never told or mentioned this story, so, how can Matthew write the total conversation between the DEVIL and JESUS, and word by word !!! ???, and if Jesus did not tell Him this story that will leave only the DEVIL who told this story to MATTHEW.
The DEVIL said to JESUS , "If you are the son of God" ,
Jesus was known as a prophet at His time, and the son of God formula came by PAUL for the first time on the road to Damascus and preached there after Jesus death. Mark & Matthew were the student of Paul, and they made such stupid stories.
Here what Jesus said:
J- 8:28 When you lift up THE SON OF MAN [JESUS] , THEN YOU WILL KNOW THAT I AM HE... [those are Jesus words, telling us that He is the son of man]
J- 13:13 You call me teacher and lord; and you are right, FOR SO I AM.
J- 13:16 Truly, truly, I [JESUS] say to you, a slave is not greater than his master {that is about Jesus and God} , nor is one is sent [JESUS] greater than the one who sent him [GOD].
{If Jesus is the son of God, then He will not compare Himself as slave to his master}
Dear Judith, You gave your answer about the INNER WAVES, but you did not give your opinion about THE PIERCING STAR [THE BLACK HOLE], which proves that the words of the Quran are not a man's words but the words of GOD. While MOST the words of the other holy books, are man's words and NOT GOD'S WORDS.
God words cannot be wrong, and always tells us the truth.
A proof to my words, let us look at what a Bishop wrote:
- GOD WHO CAN BE KILLED OUGHT TO BE KILLED.
- THE BIBLE FULL OF CONTRADICTIONS AND ERRORS.
- THE GOSPELS CANNOT BE TRUSTED TO BE RELIABLE.
Those are the words of the retired Bishop John S. Spong, a well known for his 14 books and some best sellers. He knows well what he is talking about, and he spent many years studying the Bible and tha Gospels and many other books.
You can visit his site, and read things for yourself.
Name:sam •
Date: 10/11/08 23:27
A: Hi Judith, again.
THE BIG QUESTION: Why the people of the Churches always try their best to falsify the words of God in the Quran while bringing the truth, and accept the words of those who wrote the Bible and the Gospels which are full of errors and contradictions and cannot be trusted {I do believe that only the words of Jesus are His words from God, even some words been changed by the churches*}
THE ANSWER will come by looking back FIRST into the history. JESUS never been accepted by many of the JEWS, and His words were falsified, and they try to kill Him, and the history repeat itself when the prophet came , and both the Jews and the Christians and others tried to kill Him and they falsify the words of the Quran.
SECOND, The Churches and the people who run them, POPES, BISHOPS, CARDINALS, REV., ETC., they will not give away their EMPIRE, and their POWER, and their WEALTH, to anyone else not even to GOD.
They did burn many Gospels and killed/burned many Christian , the real believer, just for reading the books, and they killed the Jews, those who believe in God and read the Bible !!!.
Read the history of the Churches then you will know all about what the Christians of Rome and the west are, and for sure they do not belong to Jesus the Christ, and not to his message of love and peace.
Name:Judith •
Date: 10/12/08 8:26
A: First, You mentioned the clouds, but you pass the STARS which will fall on the earth. WHY?. There is nothing about falling stars in the O.T. ?
Those Stars are in reference to Angels and those Angels in the Book of Revelations are the heads of Churches (i.e. Messengers) that those letters were sent to. John wrote to the Angels of the Churches and he did not air mail letters to heaven.
Name:Judith •
Date: 10/12/08 8:30
A: Read the history of the Churches then you will know all about what the Christians of Rome and the west are, and for sure they do not belong to Jesus the Christ, and not to his message of love and peace.
And hate filled in other religions do belong to God, that's a joke if I ever heard one. I know the Churches were changed and I do know my history about how Christians were killed and I know many Muslim killed them to, even back then. The Muslim killed all Chrisitans and Buddhist in the Tang Dynasty, do not pretend that your relgion is any better.
Name:sam •
Date: 10/12/08 23:40
A: Hello Judith,
RELIGION AND THE BOOK DO NOT MAKE WARS AND KILL, BUT PEOPLE WHO ARE IN POWER MAKES WARS AND KILL.
A wise person is the one who can differentiate between those who kills purely in deffending themselves and their country , and those who take the others land and kills people, just to make bigger Empires. Ex. Spanish & British Empires.
Saying that, I do believe that all religious people took part in acts of aggression and killed people.
From the Muslims Side , the Ottoman Empire did that, but it was not against the Christian country, but they attack and took many other Muslim country too, and among them Saudi Arabia and they did kill Muslims too (to make a big Empire, like the others from the west), and that is one Muslim country, but on the other side, there are many Christian country who make wars all around the world stealing lands and killing people, the Spanish, the Portugese, the French, the English, the Italian, the Russian, the Belgican, etc.. [We should not forget the masacre of millions of natives Americans and African].
After all that we should not forget that those Christian country who developed the best killing machines, and they are distibuting them around the word to help create more killing, just to make more Dollars, and the people life means nothing to them.
Judith, Killing one person by a bullet is not the same as killing thousand, by two tons bomb, and thousand by deadly gases. The people who killed by the Christian countries are beyound any justification. Here some number for your record: {people killed - quarter of million and over, in the last 150 years}
1860-65: American civil war (360,000)
1886-1908: Belgium-Congo Free State (3 million)- Majority African
1910-20: Mexican revolution (250,000)
1912-13: Balkan wars (150,000)
1915: the Ottoman empire slaughters Armenians (1.2 million)
1915-20: the Ottoman empire slaughters 500,000 Assyrians
1916-23: the Ottoman empire slaughters 350,000 Greek Pontians and 480,000 Anatolian Greeks
1914-18: World War I (20 million)
1917-21: Soviet revolution (5 million)
1932-33: Soviet Union vs Ukraine (10 million)
1936-37: Stalin's purges (13 million)
1936-39: Spanish civil war (600,000)
1939-45: World War II (55 million) including holocaust
1948-1958: Colombian civil war (250,000)
1950-53: Korean war (3 million) - Majority Koreans
1954-62: French-Algerian war (368,000) - Majority Algerians
1964-73: USA-Vietnam war (3 million) - Majority Vietnamese
1979-88: the Soviet Union invades Afghanistan (1.3 million) - Majority Afghans.
1980-88: Iraq-Iran war (1 million)
2003-08 Iraq war (600,000) Iraqies & 4,500 American and other European.
Do the math. and remember who make the arms [guns, tanks, warplane, warships, and who make and stockpile atom-bombs, and deadly gases etc.].
Name:lebowski11 •
Date: 10/13/08 1:47
A: This is an amazing situation. This has nothing to do with the Davinci Crap that was all fiction. This is the amazing thing here, we Americans are of the belief that all things are a game or a farse this does not seem to be one of them. This should receive an amazing amount of attention this is real and you can go there not Hollywood. Are we all really this brainwashed?????? Davinci was fiction!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Name:lebowski11 •
Date: 10/13/08 1:52
A: Do you not find it odd that there are pictures of Chris Columbus? Then give your head a shake and think hmmm there are pictures of Jesus please grab a clue we do not know what he really said or what really happend or what he really looked like. this is killing me. Has faith really been brought to this point where somebody puts a picture or a quote on a lighted sign and we all get this feeling that this is words from Jesus or an image of him??/?
Name:sam •
Date: 10/13/08 22:59
A: Hello , lebowski11 ,
"this is killing me. Has faith really been brought to this point where somebody puts a picture or a quote on a lighted sign and we all get this feeling that this is words from Jesus or an image of him??/? "
You are right.
First , about JESUS Himself. what they know about Him, and here what I read From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:
- "The principal sources of information regarding Jesus' life and teachings are the four canonical gospels........Most critical scholars believe that ancient texts on Jesus' life are at least partially accurate.
{ PARTIALLY ACCURATE ? , THAT means the Gospels hold parts that NOT ACCURATE !!!, and abooks which hold false information cannot be counted as HOLY BOOKS.}
- "Of the four gospels, only Matthew[27] and Luke[28] give accounts of Jesus' genealogy. The accounts in the two gospels are substantially different."
{That means NO ONE KNOWS THE TRUE STORY OF JESUS, AND MAKES ALL THE STORIES NO MORE THAN FALSE ONES}
- "Only Luke tells that Jesus was found teaching in the temple by his parents after being lost. The Finding in the Temple (Luke 2:41–52) is the only event between Jesus' infancy and baptism mentioned in any of the canonical Gospels......According to Luke, Jesus was "about thirty years of age" when he was baptized "
{3O YEARS FROM JESUS LIFE IS NOT KNOWN !!!, no one heard from His Mother, brothers , sisters, friends during the last three years while he was surrounded by hundreds even thousands of people !!!}
{SO LITTLE KNOWN ABOUT HIS LIFE}
Second, about Jesus words.
Again: "The principal sources of information regarding Jesus' life and teachings [HIS WORDS] are the four canonical gospels"
---- The New Testament , the book which all the Christian read believing it is the words of God and a holy book made of 373 pages:
Paul's letters to his friends in other churches- 153 pages
The Acts, no one sure who wrote them - 51 pages
The 4 Gospels, Mat, Mar, J, & L. - 168 pages
IN Those 168 pages , THE WORDS OF JESUS IF PUT TOGETHER THEY MIGHT COME TO LESS THAN 50 PAGES, AND THAT IS ALL WHAT BEEN KEPT FROM 3 YEARS OF JESUS TEACHING AND PREACHING !!!.
Many of Jesus words been eliminated by Paul and his followers, since the idea of Paul making Jesus the son of God will not succeed if Jesus words came as He is a prophet.
If you do not believe that then here the proof, the forgery of the 20th century:
John- 9:25 [catholic online bible] : ....THE SON OF GOD.
John- 9:25 [New American standard bible]: ....THE SON OF MAN.
Jesus, many times mentioned Himself as [89 times in the 4 gospels]THE SON OF MAN , and the church tried to falsify Him !!!.
Jesus words in the 3 years were written in less than 50 pages, but the churches and the Christian scholars wrote millons of books , making Jesus the rabbi, the teacher and the prophet, a son of God and after aecond part of God, and some change all that to make Him God !!!.
" image of him??/?"
----- they draw image for God and Adam & Eve, and Noah, Abraham , Moses, Jesus Mary and thousands others !!!, and they made their followers believe in those images [many in this forums and others tells the story of seeying Mary & Jesus and all the others, who never left a picture or drawing about themselves.]
There are thousands of images made each on is differen, the catholic Jesus image differ from the Orthodox image and so is Mary and the others !.
The churches created SAINTS and the number grow to more than 10 thousand of them.
Today on the news [CTV] , "Pope Benedict XVI canonized four new saints, including the first native-born saint from India"
I went to check the story of the saints in the 4 Gospels, it was a surprise to find that only once mentioned in a story by Matthew, [which is a faulse story, since no others mention it , not by the other three and not by anyone else], and here the creazy story:
Mat-27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose.
Going back to the O.T. I found that the name "SAINTS" mentioned, 34 times. HERE ONE:
Dan- 7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
Not one saint mentioned by name [as the case the today Christians saints - Saint John , Santa Barbara etc.].
The saints of the O.T. [the Bible] are THE SAINTS OF THE MOST HIGH [THAT IS GOD], THE SAINTS WHO CREATED BY GOD, AND NOT BY THE CHURCH AND THE POPE.
PAUL'S SAINTS:
1Cor 6:2/3 Or do you know that THE SAINTS [Paul's saints] WILL JUDGE THE WORLS ?
Do you know that WE [Paul and his saints] WE WILL JUDGE THE ANGELS?.
QUESTION: CAN PAUL AND HIS SAINTS JUDGE GOD'S ANGELS ?
I think Paul is out of his mind, or drunk when he come to attack GOD'S ANGELS.
God bless you.
Name:Judith •
Date: 10/14/08 7:10
A: Dear Sam
First you have to remember not many people knew how to write during Jesus time and much that was recorded was burned. Second the Quran was written 500 years later.
I know your not listening because of the way your quoting, as I said there is priestly terminology that you are not hearing, and the reasons for it is to remain as safe as possible while trying to say something that might get you into real trouble. Torot Cards were much the same, they were not made to use a divining tools but to tell a story so that the authorities didn't know what was being said. That is not much different than Morris Code used by secret opperations..
you wrote
Mat-27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose.
Now if you knew mystacism you would know that Jesus called the Priests white washed tombs ( i.e. graves) and the graves that opened was non other than several Priests witnessing their own inner man face to face ( what I call the spirit) . I have seen my own spirit , so yes Sam you have one even if you have not seen it. That verse goes on to say they were recognized , and it is so, when you see your own spirit , you actually do know who your looking at.
Name:Judith •
Date: 10/14/08 7:38
A: Sorry Sam I am not going back into my notes , and may not even have them any longer. But your loaded with statistic that are worthless unless you included all wars. That would be all the Chinese wars against other Chinese, the Islanders wars against different rival tribes , and the wars between American Indians who fought among them self and the Purvian and South American Tribes who fought against each other . Many Power struggles, so again your statics don't hold up. You don't have Pol Pot, or the Jewish Holocaust , you did not say a word about Muslims killing Africans and that is still happening today. You did not talk about Egyptian wars against Midianite, and Edomite's and the list can go on forever. Your just simply singleing out the people you hate the most. Just because you hate them , doesn't mean they have done any different than any other peoples.
Name:Judith •
Date: 10/14/08 16:38
A: Dear Sam
You seem to have forgotten all the wars through out history that Whites, Caucasion's, neither Jewish nor Christian, or Jewish Religions, had any part in. They were not the cause of Japanese invasion of China, Guam ,and Philippines . Again, you single out one group, as so many other people do.
They were not the cause of Slavery in 6,000 BC in Ethiopia, they did not cause the Slavery in the Southern Hemisphere.
Many wars were about deities, or at least that is what the people were told, but truth of the matter it was war over power and the people just went along with leaders.
In fact the Muslim did sell Black Jews and Christians into Slavery to Whites . There is still Slavery in those parts of the world and not owned by white people.
Name:Judith •
Date: 10/14/08 16:50
A: Dear Sam
It is a good thing you want to find pride in your heritage until it becomes to arrogant.
The fact is peoples and nations above the equater did not create the system of slavery and were still running around like blue painted smirf's while the Southern Hemisphere had slave . It is not the Southern peoples who fought for freedom of slavery. In fact is is White man who has worked hard to free the common people and that may explain their religious strong hold. Others of different Nations were smart enough to see it and have joined in. Yes we do have crooks among us , what nation doesn't ? We now have a diversified people who want freedom and yet some laws to live by and no matter what their nationallitys back ground , we have the greatest men in the world. Funny how others come here and enjoy that freedom while trying to change it back to the mess they left.
Name:Judith •
Date: 10/14/08 17:10
A: We have men from around the world who understand what they are willing to die for. All skin colors, and of many belief systems who are trying hard to get along with one another. And I might add the most handsome.
Name:sam •
Date: 10/14/08 20:11
A: Hello Judith,
Mat-27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose.
Mat-4:5&8 THEN THE DEVIL took Him...and had Him stand on the pinnacle of the temple..........AGAIN, THE DEVIL took Him TO A VERY HIGH MOUNTAIN.
Luke- 24:51 While He was blessing them, He parted from them and WAS CARRIED UP INTO HEAVEN.
First you said: "remember not many people knew how to write during Jesus time " then you said: "That is not much different than Morris Code used by secret opperations.."
Was the story of the DEVIL & JESUS a secret code FOR AN OPPERATION?, and what about "JESUS WAS CARRIED UP INTO HEAVEN", IS THAT ANOTHER SECRET CODE ?
You think that all what was written in the 4 Gospel are secret codes ?
were Jesus words no more than secret code?, was He afraid to tell the truth about His message?, while He is the son of God and got the power of God ?.
You said: "your loaded with statistic that are worthless unless you included all wars."
ALL WARS !!!, WOW. You want the encyclopedia of wars, in all the history !!!.
Quran- 24:40 Or [they are] like darkness within AN UNFATHOMABLE SEA WHICH IS COVERED BY WAVES, UPON WHICH ARE WAVES, OVER WHICH ARE CLOUDS.Darknesses, some of them upon others. When one puts out his hand [therein], he can hardly see it. And he to whom GOD has not granted light , for him there is no light.
This a true example about the people who cannot see the truth, and cannot differentiate between the true and the false.
I think that you will never see the light, the truth, the logic, if you try to switch the truth about what was clearly written in your holy books [Jesus words came from God but not the others who put their false words beside Jesus words], the books which were read and accepted as true, and its words of God, by billions of people in the last 2000 years, and to make those books , " not much different than Morris Code used by secret opperations.." just to win an argument with me.
You are covered by layers [waves] upon layers [waves] from what the churches and other sources teach you wrong about the Islam as religion and its only book , the Quran, and over it, is the shortage of knowing to how to analyze information in a scientific and logical way, and not knowing the truth of things [those are clouds on top of the waves] , which make you confused between the inner waves and the tidal waves or currents. Also, to run away and not to give an answer for the PIERCING STAR [THE BLACK HOLE]:
86:1-4 BY THE SKY AND THE NIGHT COMER - AND WHAT CAN MAKE YOU KNOW WHAT IS THE NIGHT COMER?, IT IS THE PIERCING STAR - THERE IS NO SOUL BUT THAT IT HAS OVER IT A PROTECTOR.
86:8 INDEED, HE (GOD), TO RETURN HIM, IS ABLE.
THAT WAS MENTIONED 1400 YEARS AGO, AND CAME TO BE KNOWN ONLY IN 20TH CENTURY.
Judith, you asked me to include all wars in the history of mankind ?.
then my post in answering you , will be of thoudands of pages, and I do not think that you will read them.
I did bring only the recent wars AS EXAMPLE, and the one that has a lot of distruction. and I did ask you to do the MATH. AND YOU DID NOT.
WW1 &WW2 & the other wars in Europe, in the past 100 years casualities of more than 150 millions , is far more than all the wars that took place in the last two thousand years.
The question Here: who is responsible for all those wars?. I don't think the Arabs or the Muslims has anything to do with them directly, most of them were under occupation from the western nations for hundreds of years.
You read the History and how the French helped the Ottoman in the Balkan, and then the German helped the Turks in the WW1.
There were wars between the tribes in America and in Europe, and in Africa and ASIA, but those wars neve wiped out the total population. The wars between the Scothsh and the English went for many years, and both survived and still here, but the INKA, and the MAYAN, and many of the tribes of north America and South Africa were wiped out , and their resouces been stolen and transfered to Europe, and the history tells us that the people of the churches supporting these war and the killing.
About the "Jewish Holocaust ". More than 6 million Jews were killed in Europe in WW2, but there were many more Jews killed before that and in Europe, and we all know the history of hate from The Christians toward the JEWS, and we should not forget their masacres in Spain, and all done by the Churches [THE INQUISITION], I don't think that you will deny this fact.
At wars the Christians known to have no values, and they do kill in a barbaric way and they do rape, and they do destroy homes and land.
The history about spain under the Muslim occupaton, this was written by the Spanish people [history of Spain]:
"in 711 Spain was invaded again, this time by Muslims from Africa. For centuries the Muslim conquerors would control much of the Iberian Peninsula. The high point of Islamic culture in Spain occurred in the 10th century. Muslim rulers introduced new crops and efficient irrigation systems, trading and commerce thrived, and mathematics, medicine, and philosophy flourished. "
It is not the same in America, and in India, or South Africa, or Vietnam or any other colony that the west occupied.
PEACE & LOVE. God bless you.
Name:Judith •
Date: 10/15/08 5:59
A: Dear Sam , yes I am sure of the things I have seen. More so it I see it and then it comes true.
Now then Jesus even said it could not be proved and sense you, or no one else was with Mohamad, you can't say he knew for sure, and that he really got that book form and Angel.
---- You said you know for a fact , ARE YOU SURE?, and can you prove it, by bringing real documentation, and not by telling old stories. Do you believe in everything written without analyze it and see if it can be accepted scientifically and logically ?.
As far as the Apostle Paul , your right , he didn't know Jesus but did know of him, and I did say that before so your not reading what I wrote. Your just looking for an argument.
A: Was Jesus married?. Of cource HE was married. Jesus was born a Jew , and died as a Jew, and maybe He was a rabbi, and according to the traditios at His time men should marry at young age, and Jesus had to follow the tradition.
I don't know, and I don't care. It would not make any difference to me. I don't have any thing to prove . He made a great impact and was a great man, prophet, with a good heart, that others wanted dead.
if you .........ARE an educated person...... you should know the difference between the WAVE and the CURRENT"
If your as bright as you seem to think you are, then you should know not everyone studys waves. Can you tell me why calanders used to have 13 months in our system insead of 12. that is a much easier question. Do you know the answer? At the end of Noah's flood how many years is he missing? Did you go to a drafting board and figure that out? You see , Sam not everyone studies the same subjects. But it is also a fact that a Tidal wave is a wave under a wave.
As far as you listing all the wars your nit picking on Christians and Jews. You don't have to write down all those wars I have read of many . And you did not bring up all the recent wars , like I said you never said a word about Pol Pott and you never said a word about all the Africans being killed by other Africans and Muslims. Those are recent. You never said a word about the war of Afganistan in the late 1900's and we were not there until an invitation.
We did not start that war in Croacia, and we don't make Muslims of different factions war among them self. We did not Cause Saddam to be what he was.
Paul did not say he visited the thrid heaven , he said he knew a man who did or told him he did. " That says to me he used to know this person 14 years ago. If Paul was in the spirit you can be sure he would have know it, because you do recognize your self.
I agree with this:
If we do that, instead fo fighting and hating each other IN THE NAME OF THE BOOK/ THE RELIGION, then maybe we will be able to understand each other teachings, and apreciate the books that came to each us LOVE AND PEACE.
I will not deny the Churches [THE INQUISITION], That did happen and more than just Jewish people were killed and the same goes for the Haulacaust , Polish , French, Lithauanian, Itallian , Galic, Belgians, and many others were killed to. Yes , I know that for there are lithauanian in my imdediate family who escaped a prisoner of war camp. That was not just Jewish and many of those killed were also Christians. Even many Germans were killed for trying to do the right thing for those victims.
Sam where did you go to college?
It is not the same in America, and in India, or South Africa, or Vietnam or any other colony that the west occupied.
Name:sam •
Date: 10/16/08 20:41
A: Dear Judith,
Thank you.
Sometime we agree and others we do not, and It does not matter if we agree or not, always I feel glad when you answer my post , and I do feel that you are a friend, since we keep talking to each other, and that what it matter most.
I do read the total of your post, and more than once, to be sure I give the right answer. There is nothing against you, never. I do respect you no matter what, and it is not about me and you , but about what is right and what is wrong, and I am talking about, FIRST OF ALL THE BOOKS which is the center of all religions, religious people had millions of different opinion about what was written, and sometimes they try to prove the wrong is right [THAT IS PURE PHILOSOPHY], and I never follow those philosophical analysis, but I do my work toward searching for the truth by using two method, SCIENCE and LOGIC.
I NEVER BEEN A FOLLOWER TO ANY RELIGION, AND I WILL NEVER FOLLOW ANY RELIGIOUS GROUP IN THE FUTURE. {I call all those groups, opportunists , selfish , stone-minded and dangerous}
IF THE BOOK HOLDS THE TRUTH OR THE FALSE, that can be decide ONLY BY SCIENTIFIC ANALYSIS, and not by PHILOSOPHICAL arguments.
------------------------------
Sam where did you go to college?
The same question came before on this forums, and I did write about it .
My friend Indie Anna and me we share our personal life in education, travel and family. I think that create a trust between us, and that is the first step for understanding and peace.
In my post of 10/05/08 I wrote the following:
.... a person who doesn't know geography or history or cannot read or write IS NOT A STUPID, BUT NOT EDUCATED in geography , history and did not have the chance to go to school, while he can be very SMART.
You hear about students who hate history or physics, and on the other side those students who love history and physics, while all their teachers are educated and graduated in those subjects.
The question WHY?.
The answer is , how the subject is taught, and that depend on the teacher ability to make the subject an interesting or boring one. The element that differ one teacher from another here is the SMARTNESS , smart teacher has more values than just a teacher.
In January ,2009 - I will turn 71........In 1968, I receive my BA degree from university, my studies includes accounting, statistics and laws.
I traveled around the world. I lived and worked, in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Kuwait, Australia, Canada, and the U.S. , In 1963 , me and my three brothers spent three months camping all around Europe (12 countries), in 1958 did an English-language course for 6 months in England.
I did design labels & boxes for Hungarian cheese manufacturer, one design bought by an airliner, and a design for records storage bins[ container] for EMI Australia, and this design was acquired later on by Toshiba [Japan], 1975 I won an Australian design award for best [game & package presentation], other competitors were from Australia, Japan, England, China, and US, {Mattell} and other countries.
My son graduated with high honor from NY medical school, His wife [America from Irish descents and catholic] graduated from the same school after one years, and they been married for twelve years, my grandson is nine years young and his scores in the IWOA National test last year was 99%.
My three brother all had university degree, the youngest brother received his doctorate from Paris university [Sorbonne] in algebra& physics, and worked several years at the Observatory of Paris.
Two of my sister are qualified teachers, and the third [the youngest] received her master degree in chemistry from A German university, and now is working for big pharmaceutical company.
I brought all that not to show off, as you and many others will think, but to make my point which I brought before about the educated & not-educated but smart, and THE TEACHERS.
Our best teacher is our father, and at home, and his best lesson was, “I want you to study hard, not just to pass an exam, but to get the right and full knowledge of the subjects that you are learning.”
The day before the exam , he instructed us to put the books aside and relax, by going to a park or places where we can be watching the nature, [river, birds, flowers etc.] , he say, “ going tired to an exam will not help you, and one day will not make much different, if you did not acquire the knowledge you need in 300 days”
Those are the words which I pass to my son, and to his wife after failing the Med. Exam in Baltimore, and she took the next exam in Toronto, and stayed two weeks preparing, but the last day we took her to the park for BBQ, [I pass my father message to her]. She graduated with honor degree.
Blessings.
Name:Judith •
Date: 10/17/08 2:25
A: Dear Sam
Who were your teachers and how did all of you pay for all that? do you come from a wealthy family or did you get grants and or loans from the very people you hate.
I live in the USA , my father died six days before my ninth birthday, and my mother died shorty after my 14 th birthday. I am not a graduate. But I have worked and did go back to Junior College and I paid for most of that while parenting children, and no child support from absent father.
You got educated from the same people in the same lands you claim are the problem . You don't sound greatfull for what you got .
Name:Judith •
Date: 10/17/08 2:34
A: Sam you also do not sound like you know all the history you should . You want me to give you numbers of the deceased caused by wars that USA were in. We didn't attack Japan. We were invited in Vietnam , we were invited in the war to free the Jews.
Now you want me to give you a head count, how many millions died when Japan nearly took over China ? How many infants were dumped into the Yellow River because they were female? How many did Gingis Khan kill. How many did Sargon Kill , how many did Nebecanezzar Kill ?
Yes I do know a few things , even without a higher education, and I know you can't give a head count, and that just as many died. No Eroupain was in those wars.
Name:sam •
Date: 10/17/08 23:51
A: Hello Judith,
I am sory that you lost your parents at early age.
You mentioned : "I live in the USA "
---- I have always a great love for the United State, and its people, My love started when I was very little, and that came from my parents and grand parents, who were praying and chearing for them all the time. They did collect all the newspaper and magazine of the first and second wars.
My eldest brother subscribed, to the National Geographic, popular science and popular mechanic from 1950, and reading those , and getting the maps, that what put into my heart the love of adventure.
"I am not a graduate. But I have worked and did go back to Junior College and I paid for most of that while parenting children"
---- You did great, and I do admire that.
Judith, You ask several Questios, after Your first one which was , "Sam where did you go to college?"
Q- "Who were your teachers" ... A- Einestein & Hugo & Maw.
----- This my answer for you silly question.
Q- "and how did all of you pay for all that?".... A- that is another silly question. I don't think you know much about the other world , In my country, and many other countries, schools are free, and some colleges and universities are free too.
The US the richest country in the world, is the most expensive place when comes to education and health etc, . At the same time it is far behind many nations even in the third world, in Math &science. Here the proof:
The bad news is that students in Singapore and several other Asian countries significantly outperform American students, even those in high-achieving states like Massachusetts, the study found.
“In this case, the bad news trumps the good because our Asian economic competitors are winning the race to prepare students in math and science,” said the study’s author, Gary W. Phillips, chief scientist at the American Institutes of Research, a nonprofit independent scientific research firm."
Q- "do you come from a wealthy family" ....A- No, just a middle class family. All members of my family worked hard and acheived a lot. And brothers and sisters help each other when needed, even uncles and aunts. My youngest sister study in Germany was very expensive, but every one was supporting her.
{ you can take Bill Clinton as an example, and Barak Obama is another ex., those who did not have much to start with, except the will to do their best}
Q- " or did you get grants and or loans"
Lebanon is my place of birht. A small country , in size and population, but the country has free schooling, and some colleges and universities are free.
"There are 28 university in Lebanon, for population of 3,971,941
2008 estimate."
Q- "or did you get grants and or loans from the very people you hate. "
A- THIS IS THE MOST SILLY AND STUPID QUEATION EVER COME ON THIS FORUMS, OR ANY OTHER FORUMS.
First, I do not hate people, I WONDER FROM WHERE YOU GET YOUR INFORMATION, DID YOU ANDERSTAND WHAT YOU READ, ? yOU DID NOT SEE MY MESSAGE OF LOVE AND PEACE, WHITCH COME SO MANY TIMES IN MY POSTS !!!?.
There are people which I do not like, those who kill, or steal, or spread lies and THOSE WHO SWITCH THE TRUTH.
Second, I did not get loans or grants to finish my study, but I did Get scholarship for five years from Damascus university after getting a great marks (98%), The scholarship ,which is to cover Registration and the living expenses and books, and other materials. The university is free.
Here some information:
Type: Public
Staff: 2,173
Students: 85,837
Location: Damascus, Syria
Name:Judith •
Date: 10/18/08 4:47
A: Dear Sam
When you speak of the fact that all we do is kill, it sounds like hate. We do try to help other countries.
It was not a silly question to ask who financed your education , because if you had to go to school in the USA you would have to apply for loans or grants. I know that because I had to apply for a grant in order to be able to buy my books. I had a job, but I need extra, and I took 13 units which is 13 hours a week in class and worked as well. I did not get living expenses. So to me it is not silly or stupid.
As you said, I also no longer belong to a Religion, by my choice. I was brought up Catholic but left at age 13. I did go back to a church for a few years then got on my knees and asked god to teach me. There is more than just logic and reason. I didn't use drugs, I do smoke cigaretts and that is a hard habit to get rid of, I don't drink alcholic beverages , never the less I have seen my own sprit on more than one occasion and that is not logical . I also believe in logic and science, but I also know there is a realm that is not provable.
Blessings
Name:sam •
Date: 10/18/08 22:55
A: Dear Judith,
"When you speak of the fact that all we do is kill, it sounds like hate."
First, I mentioned countries , England , France, Russia etc., whom in the last five centuries sent their troops and ships and guns all over the world, thousand of miles away from their land, to occupy other people lands and to steal their resources, and million of people killed deffending themselves. All Africa, all America, and most of Asia, were under occupation and for very long time [THAT IS WHAT BRING HATE]. The wealth which came to England , France and Spain, all came from the colonized countries. The churches were supporter for all that, and they are very rich BY BEING A PARTNERS IN ALL THOSE WARS. .
Here an example:
"Atahualpa offered the Spaniards enough gold to fill the room he was imprisoned in, and twice that amount in silver, in order to be freed. The Incas fulfilled this ransom, but Pizarro refused to release the Inca."
Second, I do not hate people, I mentioned that in my last post and many others, My daughter -in-law is catholic, and we and her family are very close and we love each other , and we have many Christian friends [and they were against the war in Iraq], those our friends and we have parties together, and we go to picnic together, and our Jewish friend and his catholic wife from Montreal, their two children were looked after by my sister in law for several years, we became friends and we exchange visits. My son best friends from grade four until now are Hindu and Christians , and SANJAY DABAS [Hindu] , he just graduated from Medical school , BY THE HELP OF MY SON, he was not doing well as a lawer in Canada, Sanjay settled in Verginia and married to a Jewish American girl , they spend their holidays in my son house, when in Canada always they pay us a visit.
"We do try to help other countries. "
HELP OTHER COUNTRIES ???. {I am not talking about the few hundred million Dollars that many countries gives to help the poor people after a disasters, like flood or earth-quake, or famine, but about the billions which goes to governments .}
The Soviet [Russian] try to help Angola and Cuba and Egypt.... etc., And China in Africa begain to help !!!, that is today, IT IS A PURE POLITIC, AND A GAME FOR POWER [you should know this fact], each one trying to win more ground, and it is solely for their own benefits , each one trying to put his hand on the other small countries resources.
They do give billions of $$$ to the leaders of the states [buying them] in one hand [people hardly get much of it], but they try to take the mony back by the other hand, and they make them buy the surplus of old junk arms [guns, tanks, planes, small arms, etc.], which most of the time create conflicts and war, also the billions which the powerful goverment give to any small nation is not a free gift , but there are conditions attached upon which put those governments and the resources of the country under control. NOTHING FOR FREE. US, RUSSIA, CHINA , THEY ARE ALL THE SAME, IT IS A GAME OF POWER, and the small and poor country always the loosers.
" because if you had to go to school in the USA you would have to apply for loans or grants. I know that because I had to apply for a grant in order to be able to buy my books."
The strongest and richest country in the world whom you said,"HELP OTHER COUNTRIES", CANNOT AFFORD TO HELP THEIR OWN CHILDREN IN THEIR EDUCATION, NOT EVEN BY GIVING THEM FREE BOOKS !!!!!!!!!.
Before a country start giving away billions to other governments, and spending billions on unjustfied wars, they should at the list provide free EDUCATION & HEALTH, AND SOCIAL SECURITY FOR ITS PEOPLE.
I HOPE YOU AGREE WITH ME. That is the message of Barac Obama, and his Democratic party.
Schooling and Health care in many countries around the world are free, but not in the US.
In Canada, Hospitals and Doctors and specialist are free, Medication is cheaper than the US, and people with low income can get help by the government in the TRILLIUM PROGRAM.
One year ago, I nearly lost my sight , from doctor to a specialist to hospital and surgery [Macular hole] , ALL FREE, All what I have to do is to represent my OHIP CARD.
In the states the surgery and the hospital will cost 21 thousand Dollars!. That is a fact. Many American in states close to Canada buy their medication from Canada.
Last month, I got very sick for several days, and I ended in hospital for four days, two days in the intensive care room, CT, X-RAYS, ULTRA SOUND, SEVERAL BLOOD TEST, and Medication. ALL FREE, but I did pay 85$ for the ANBULANCE. It is the same in Syria the small third country .
CNN/ news [Ballot Bowl] today at 5:30 PM :
29.6 millions, nearly 10% of Americans depend on FOOD STAMPS.
101 $ PER MONTH, that is one [1] Dollar per meal !!!. {CNN vedio-tape showing people using the food-stamp card buying their their food from suprmarket}
I think those people who live in the richest country in the world, they needed help badly.
Blessings.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 10/19/08 18:57
A: Sam,
I'm glad you are ok.I was wondering what happened to you.
I'm for the universal health care programas long as it's the same fee for each person and even the person without a penny to rub in their pocket can afford it.The Public Health system used to take care of low income. people.We used to have to go to them for our medical care---now we pay insurence.And I certainly wish they would open public free colleges so that I can afford to back to school and get my degrees and certificates in my chosen field of work
.The problem is the burden falls on the tax payers and it would raise taxes from 17% on the dollar earned to 50% on the dollar earned.Free enterprise means making personal choices and paying for it after earning whatever that person chose to do.There is no perfect government system.Either you're dictated to or pay for what you want.
Name:sam •
Date: 10/21/08 1:54
A: Dear Panluna,
THANK YOU.
Turning 70, and parts of the body start to weaken and break & the immune system became weaker, it is exactly like a new car turning old .
Thank God, today and with advanced medical technoloy, and with good doctors and nurses, person has bigger chance of surviving.
I hope that the new government in 2009, in the US will look at other education and health system in the other developed countries, and follow their steps.
Here are some information about the health care in some developed countries:
" U.S. health care spending was $ 2 trillion [2007]. 16% of GDP . For example U.S. a clear outlier in international comparison of health care spending.
U.S. exceeds the level in the next closest country [Switzerland] by more than 50%.
Canada, Norway, Germany, Japan, Italy, U.K. and others , they spend much less.
"There is no perfect government system" I DO AGREE.
--- There is no perfect government , but there is one who is better than the others. AND THAT GOES FOR THE SAME COUNTRY. ex. the government who makes 5 trillion surplus after 8 years, is far better than the governmnet who create 10 trillion in defecit, at the same period.
----------------------------
I took a brake to watch "DANCING WITH THE STARS" while having my dinner. My wife favorite, beside "wonder woman" and Travel or history channel, and sometimes if there is no interesting program we watch "Tom and Jerry" or the food channel.
----------------------------
Also, there is no one perfect system, but there are hundreds of system , for health & education around the world, there is the excellent, the good, the fair, and the bad.
Those who are in government, and in each department, they should spend sometime studying every system around, and try to find the best for their country instead of worying about theit seats in office, and instead of giving away the wealth of the country to the big FAT CATS.
PANLUNA, I hope the education system in the US wil change for better soon, to give chance to ALL who are hungry for learning & knowledge.
I do wish you the best, and I hope that your dreams come soon.
--- By the way, what is you favorite subject /field of study ?
God bless you.
Name:sonofjesus •
Date: 10/21/08 2:32
A: so what ever happened to the topic of Jesus being married? lol
Name:Panluna •
Date: 10/21/08 14:37
A: Hi,Sam,
My favorite subject is Archaeology and Culteral Anthropology.I write poetry but I don't make anything at .if I can afford to go back to college it would most likely be to study those fields of interest.When I was younger due to financial reasons I had to quit college (in the 70s) but at that time I took creative writing and poetry courses which helped me but I only attende for three semesters and never got my Associates Degree. Then I wound up working at menial jobs to support myself until I got married.I stayed home to take of my family while my husband's career to him all over the world.My interest in archaeology started to grow several years ago.My earlier goal was and still is to be a writer.
I like watching DANCING WITH THE STARS,too.It's one of my favorite shows.I think Derek Hough will be the winning dance teacher this year.His sister Julienne won twice .I used to dance but my achey old people joints won't allowed it anymore----but I admire Cloris Leachmen's courage ---she's 82 and out there showing world anyone can dance!!!!!
Plato--I believe it was Plato---- put forth the idea of Utopia as the best form of government---would it really work on such a huge world population or do theories work best as in theory only?
You take of yourself and have a nice day,
Panluna
Name:Panluna •
Date: 10/21/08 14:43
A: Sonofjesus,
Was he or wasn't he?That's the eternal question.There is plenty of evidence to prove he was married to Mary Magdalene and many who don't believe that the human being who was a Jewish Rabbi living centuries ago could have lived a normal life before being deified 300 years after his death.What do you think?
Name:sonofjesus •
Date: 10/21/08 17:33
A: Panluna,
"deified 300 years after his death", you lost me on this statement. As far as him being a "jewish" rabbi, I have difficulty with this because that would mean he was of judaism and he wasn't. Fact is, he would be permitted to be married and if he was and left behind his seed as God promised would remain to David, then God couldn't let mankind know of this otherwise those of judaism who killed him would also kill his son and wife in order to end his life completely. Had they left anything remain of him that seed would be able to someday return and take its revenge , in theory of course. Anyway, the way I see it, which means nothing in this day and age, Jesus tried for 3 1/2 years to get those of judaism to leave their religion of man and traditions and come back to his father so that he wouldn't have to die like these trinity god christians think he had to do. Had those of judaism come back to his father and started sending unblemished animals to his dad again at the temple, in theory of course, Jesus would still be alive today ruling in paradise and prophecy would have been changed and only he and his dad would know the difference. Afterall, God makes prophecy and God can change it. Probably has changed many times over the eons as far as we would know. and we don't know. Jesus had to be married and leave his seed behind or else the promise God made to King David as mentioned many places in scriptures would have been broken. God NEVER breaks a promise. 2Samuel 7:12-16 speaks of that promise. You can footnote from there.
Name:sam •
Date: 10/22/08 1:20
A: Hello, sonofjesus,
First, I do agree with Panluna on the point that Jesus was married , and had a son, and I will bring my analysis to that later on.
Second, When I read "THE WORDS OF JESUS" in the Gospels, I find the truth about many things, about HIMSELF,and about HIS MISSION [THAT IS WHAT WE CALL "JESUS TEACHING". But when I read the words of Matthew, John, Mark and Luke, I find their words confusing since it is mixed with unbelievable and unlogical stories and conflicting one, adding to the confusion is reading the many other different writing from the people of the churches, and scholars, and what they come with from new developed ideas about Jesus, conflicting Ideas from their own creation and immagination. For ex: the son of God, the trinity, Mary the mother of God , The virginal spouse of God, etc.
Confusion which will never end, because there are more counfusion today about Jesus among the Christian themselves than ever before !!!.
It is like a picture PUZZLE, which will never be solved, because MOST OF THE PIECES ARE MISSING. The churches and the scholars are trying to create their own pieces, but those pieces when put into the original picture pazzle they make it look untrue and sometime ugly, and that is what happen.
I SAY, :"THE SIMPLE WORDS OF JESUS ARE THE ESSENCE OF HIS TEACHING. JESUS MESSAGE BEEN CHANGED BY THE YEARS TO BECAME A COMPLICATED 'PHILOSOPHICALLY' ,'THEOLOGICALLY', MYTHOLOGICALLY', AND MAN MADE 'THEORETICAL' TEACHING.
Retired Bishop John S. Spong wrote:
"THE ESSENCE OF CHRIST WAS CONFUSED WITH THE FORM IN WHICH THAT ESSENCE WAS COMMUNICATED"
{Confused ?!, ..... The confusion came when people try to play with the words of Jesus, and change His message, and to come back to the truth we have to believe in His words only, and take His words as they came, and not as the others translated, and keep his message away from distortion.
Also he said, "A God or a faith system that has to be defended daily is finally no God or a faith system at all."...."God who can be killed ought to be killed."
sonofjesus, You said, "As far as him being a "jewish" rabbi, I have difficulty with this because that would mean he was of judaism and he wasn't"
Jesus was not a Christian, Christians is name that was given after and later on to those who follow Jesus the Christ. Jesus was born a Jew and followed his parents and studied the Bible [O.T.] and that is Judaism, and His religion was the Judaism for sure .
The Gospels tell us that Jesus start His ministry at the age of thirty, that is when He started His message, and His message is clear:
Mat 5:17 DO NOT THINK THAT I CAME TO ABOLISH THE LAW OR THE PROPHETS; I DID NOT COME TO ABOLISH BUT TO FULFILL.
There are laws and prophets before Him, and Jesus believe in them, the laws which came by Moses are the words of God, and the prophets are God's messengers, and Jesus is not going to change or abolish all, but He came to fulfill.
God bless you.
Name:sonofjesus •
Date: 10/23/08 4:07
A: Wow Sam, you got lots of mankinds thinking upstairs there huh. lol. You cannot find God through Man...impossible. Yet mankind tries and tries all the time. Bet you read mankinds teachings all the time and call them from God huh. lol Oh well, matters not. End times are amongst us and nothing humankind can do today to stop what shall be. What will be shall be and what is going to be is going to be. Nothing we can do to change it
Name:sam •
Date: 10/24/08 0:52
A: sonofjesus,
Hello,
wow, by itself is a term used to show a surprise, but when joined with , "lol, huh, " and in statement without any real meaning, then that show your lack of understanding.
You said,
1- " mankinds thinking upstairs there ".... Thinking what?
2- " mankind tries and tries all the time".... Tries and tries what?
3- " Bet you read mankinds teachings all the time" .... What teaching you mean?
4- " nothing humankind can do today to stop what shall be".... To stop what?
In your 4 statements above there is nothing with value, and I do wonder if had any education at all, and then in what?.
Mankind teaching are the works of millions who done great gob in the past , and the keep doing the same today, and they will carry on in the future, to educate us and give us more knowledge.
The knowledge which came in the Bible are very limited and hold within some wrong information and a lot of contradictions and errors.
You brought this, "God NEVER breaks a promise. 2Samuel 7:12-16 speaks of that promise. You can footnote from there. "
First, can you explain to me what was the promise?
In "God NEVER breaks a promise. 2Samuel 7:12-16 speaks of that promise."
Second, who wrotes "Samuel"?, please give me his name.
Third, The O.T. [Bible] mostly consist of stories about families beside some wrong stories about ' CREATION", and few "COMMANDMENTS" and the writer brought the name of God into them.
1Samuel, started with,
1:1 Now there was a certain man of Ramathaimzophim, of mount Ephraim, and his name was Elkanah, the son of Jeroham, the son of Elihu, the son of Tohu, the son of Zuph, an Ephrathite:
1:2 And he had two wives; the name of the one was Hannah, and the name of the other Peninnah: and Peninnah had children, but Hannah had no children.
Peninnah - Hannah .....Sarai - Hagar
Here a story like the one about ABRAHAM WIVES, Ge 16:1 Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar......16:4 And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived: and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her eyes.
and ENDED IN 2Samuel,
24:23All these things did Araunah, as a king, give unto the king. And Araunah said unto the king, The LORD thy God accept thee.
24:24 And the king said unto Araunah, Nay; but I will surely buy it of thee at a price: neither will I offer burnt offerings unto the LORD my God of that which doth cost me nothing. So David bought the threshingfloor and the oxen for fifty shekels of silver.
24:25 And David built there an altar unto the LORD, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings. So the LORD was intreated for the land, and the plague was stayed from Israel.
Stories, stories.... never ende stories....God never involved in personal affairs of His people.
God thrown is in heaven, and HE send HIS ANGELS all around the universe to look after their affair.
Ge 21:17 And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her....
{the angel of God called to Hagar }
Genesis- And the angel of the LORD found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur.
Ge 16:9 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.
Ge 16:10 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.
Ge 16:11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.
Ge 22:11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
Ge 22:15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
God bless you.
" What will be shall be and what is going to be is going to be.".... If it happen, and that you loose your mind after reading my post and what is going to be is going to be, AND, "Nothing we can do to change it ."
Name:sonofjesus •
Date: 10/24/08 3:25
A: double wow! you a trip dude. Mind-Fer's don't stand a chance with God. Know this as a fact. Actually, the dumber you are, live simple, are meek, the better chance you got to him. You mind f-ers ain't got a chance. oh yeah, and lol to boot.
Now, what was that about Jesus being married again and having a son? Oh yeah, we once again forgot that concept. Wonder what that son would be like today huh Mind F-ers. Only one book needed to read to know and understand and have God with you. His book. And of course you all read that right His Book. This is all getting so tired. day in day out, same ole same ole. Stupidity reigns and mankind loves being it the most. Tell you what though, this is one of the coolest world's God has made so far. Now onto the next one. Make that one even better
and then another one, and each one ruled by a son. Fathers and sons, it's what keeps creation working. This world has run it's course. Now to enjoy it through that seed Jesus had with Mary 2000 years ago. He is the one who is the messiah who shall lead the sheep to his Dad who is now Jesus. Jesus's dad is doing what he said he was gonna do, enter his day of rest. He's resting, and while resting he is gonna enjoy his creation he made through his son that rules it now. And that son, Jesus, has a son also whom he shall create his world through to retire in for the next 6000 years. New Adam, New Noah, New Abraham, New David. New Jesus. New everything. Story remains, characters change. that's creation. goes on forever and ever and never gets boring because each son creates a new world with new everything for each to enjoy. You got happy, sad, evil good. you got it all. forever. anyway. tired of this all. soon shall we all know this and that and you mind F-ers don't stand a chance. Guaranteed!
Name:sam •
Date: 10/24/08 23:04
A: Dear sonofjesus,
You said:
"Only one book needed to read to know and understand and have God with you. "
--- Can you tell me which book you mean, please ?.
". And of course you all read that right His Book"
--- That is wrong, not all read the book which you forget to mention, again tell us what book is that?.
"This is all getting so tired. day in day out, same ole same ole "
--- Tired from what ?. You need to take it eazy and relax, so you can think better and do better work and writing.
"Stupidity reigns and mankind loves being it the most. "
--- That is for some, and I do agree with you.
"Tell you what though, this is one of the coolest world's God has made so far"
--- Please TELL me more about this coolest world, and let me know if God did not made another one SO FAR.
" Now onto the next one. Make that one even better"
--- Did God give you His secrets, or you read about it somewhere?.
"and then another one, and each one ruled by a son"
--- WOW !!!, I wonder how did you get all these information , the information that no one talked about, not Abraham, not Moses, and not Jesus !!!???.
" He is the one who is the messiah who shall lead the sheep to his Dad who is now Jesus."
--- Mat-15:24 But he [Jesus the Messiah] answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
- Jesus said , that He was sent. who sent Him?.
- If, Dad of Jesus is Jesus Himself, then what happen when Jesus was in his mather womb for nine months, since we know [by you] that dad & son are one/ was dad in the mother womb?, was the thrown left with no one since both on earth?
---- was his DAD, which you mention a GOD.
---- Please tell me where I can fund in the gospels, that Jesus said He is God.
If Jesus a God then he will not do this:
L-6:12 It was at this time that He went off to the mountain TO PRAY, AND HE SPENT THE WHOLE NIGHT IN PRAYER TO GOD.
{JESUS WAS PRAYING TO GOD. LOGCALLY, IF JESUS WAS GOD THEN HE WILL NOT SPEND NIGHTS TO PRAY FOR HIMSELF.}
Mark-10:18 And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? NO ONE IS GOOD EXCEPT GOD ALONE.
{Do you understand what Jesus said. No one is good INCLUDING JESUS HIMSELF...EXCEPT GOD ALONE.... THE ONE AND ONLY GOD [J-5:44]....THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD [mARK-12:29] Jesus said , OUR GOD, and that means HIS GOD, MY GOD, YOUR GOD , AND ALL THE PEOPLE GOD.
Do not tell that you do not believe in Jesus words, becuse if you say something different that makes Jesus a liar.
Jesus said, "WHEN YOU LIFT UP THE SON OF MAN....THE SON OF MAN....THEN YOU WILL KNOW THAT I AM HE.....I AM HE...I AM THE SON OF MAN AND NOT THE SON OF GOD, AND NOT A GOD.
"This is eternal life, THAT THEY [you & the others] MAY KNOW YOU,
THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST WHOM YOU SENT."
Jesus was sent by God. God is the only TRUE GOD. And Jesus told you that. I wonder how can YOU [the Christians] falsify Jesus, and accept the words of the others [Paul & the rest] !!!!
sonofjesus, here what jesus said:
J- 8:42 ....I have not even come on My own initiative, BUT HE SENT ME.
J-11:42 ....I said it, so they may believe THAT YOU SENT ME.
J- 17:14 “ I have given them YOUR WORD...” {Jesus gave you God's message. So He is a messenger and no more}
M-23:9 “Do you call anyone on earth your father; for one is your father, HE WHO IS IN HEAVEN.
{God is not the father of Jesus alone but HE is the father for all the Human, THE CREATOR.}
MA-6:3 “Is not this the carpenter, the son of MARY, and brother of JAMES and JOSES and JUDAS and SIMON? Are not his sisters here with us?” and they took offense at him.
MA-6:4 JESUS said to them, “A PROPHET is not without honor except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in his own household.”
-{ In the first verse (6:3) we understand that Jesus was offended by his brothers and sisters (took offence at HIM); then in the second verse (6:4) Jesus mentioning Himself clearly as a ‘PROPHET’(a prophet without honor except...and in his own household)}
J-4:44 For JESUS himself testified that A PROPHET has no honor in his own country.
{Another proof that JESUS IS A PROPHET.}
J-4:34 JESUS said to them (the Disciples), MY FOOD IS TO DO WILL OF HIM WHO SENT ME AND TO ACCOMPLISH HIS WORK.
{Jesus was sent by God [He say it many times] to bring God's message}
J-5:27 And HE GAVE HIM AUTHORITY to execute judgment, BECAUSE HE IS THE SON OF MAN......HE IS THE SON OF MAN.
J-5:30 “I CAN DO NOTHING ON MY OWN INITIATIVE. As I hear, I judge; and my judgment is just, BECAUSE I DO NOT SEEK MY OWN WILL, BUT THE WILL OF HIM WHO SENT ME.
{Jesus can do nothing, it is the will of God and not His will}
J-5:44 “ how can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and YOU DO NOT SEEK THE GLORY THAT IS FROM THE ONE AND ONLY GOD?.
{There is ONLY ONE GOD, and not a god made of three parts, and there is no son of God, that was created by Paul after Jesus death.}
J-6:38 For I have come down from heaven, NOT TO DO MY OWN WILL, BUT THE WILL OF HIM WHO SENT ME.
J-7:16 So JESUS answered them and said, “MY TEACHING IS NOT MINE, BUT HIS WHO SENT ME.
J-7:17 “If anyone is willing to do his will, he will know of the TEACHING, whether it is OF GOD OR whether I speak from MYSELF.
AT LAST, what he said in the following verse, is a full discription what the Christians doing:
Mark-7:8/9 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men {that is lying & switching the truth}. He was also saying to them, "YOU ARE EXPERTS AT SETTING ASIDE THE COMMANDMENT OF GOD IN ORDER TO KEEP YOUR TRADITION.
sonofjesus, PLEASE TELL ME IF JESUS WAS TELLING THE TRUTH IN ALL THE WORDS THAT I WROTE OR NOT.
God bless you.
Name:sonofjesus •
Date: 10/25/08 20:37
A: Sam, you are right I am wrong. lol. You actually think that God took 4 thousand years to write a book all about his seed from Adam to Noah to Abraham to Jesus and then POOF! Stop recording his seeds history on earth? All you trinity freaks got this la la land thing going where you think Jesus was the end to the story. The story remains. The seed remains. And you shall someday have that story in your face either on TV, monitor and paper, although I don't think God will need to place the third part on paper. The story didn't stop with Jesus. There is a third part coming. The seed of Jesus on earth till now. He could have been william the conquerer or a simple man of no means. He could have been the ear to George washington who pointed him in a certain direction. Of course, the seed never knew who he was while walking earth. But he does now. Now he is waking, and when he and his dad are done working things out between them then your POOF takes place. Lots of souls gotta go. no other way. Mankind can never reverse or fix this mess we have created to nature. We would and will eventually go extinct. The weather we feel now, the effects we see now, ice melting, wild weather all over, droughts, etc. all took place 20 to 30 years ago. literally. The crap we pumped into this world 20 to 30 years ago is now showing up. Takes that long. So, the crap we do now into this world makes what is taking place now a vacation. the effects of what we do today will show up 20 to 30 years from now.Mankind trying to solve anything together is a joke. only one solution. God's. And like it or not, his solution, plain as day in revelation 9 is wiped mankind out, 4 billion at least. and soon. has to be. shock treatment on nature. We rent this world folks. It was given to us on rent from nature
they were here first. and they let us ruin them and it so they also can live on. Anyway, Sam, your mind is mush. Sorry. You psychoanalyize to much. Leads to a dead end. I tell you the right bible to read you'd never read it. You already got a god you can tell what to do and be as you want so you can sin in peace. We all do. Thing is, your god and all the gods we all possess are about to meet the REAL God soon. And when we all do, and we will, your chances are null and void. None among mankind are righteous today. We are all wrong. To what degree is all that matters. you worship a false god, you gotta go. God can never trust a soul again who bows down to a god willingly it doesn't understand or have doubts is real. anyway, you are blessed to one extent, you got front row seats to a change in creation that only takes place in one lifetime. that is a lifetime over 6000 years. We are moving into a different reality. One which is the real reality, and when we do, many can't and won't cope. you don't cope, you leave. You cope, you remain. cool world we got here to enjoy. Food galore. fun galore. fast cars, space shuttles, disneyworlds. Yeah man, fun galore. and all God has to do now is throw away the idiots. lots of them. then the heaven can begin. for 1000 years we who remain will fix this world back to health and have fun doing it. God is cool. saved the best for last. and the third bible is soon to be on your newstands and monitors for all.
Name:sam •
Date: 10/26/08 21:15
A: sonofjesus,
You said:
A- " Now he is waking, and when he and his dad are done working things out between them then your POOF takes place."
---- Who is he, and who is his dad ?. Do they have names?
B- "I tell you the right bible to read you'd never read it."
---- Does the RIGHT Bible has a name?.
---- When you said the RIGHT Bible, that logically means, that there is a WRONG Bible too, will you please tell me which is right and which is wrong ?.
---- I read ALL your Bibles, the old [O.T.], and the new [the 4 Gospels], and the newly discovered Gospels, and the letters of Paul too. Can you tell me which of them the right, and which is wrong ?.
---- THE BIBLE FULL OF CONTRADICTIONS AND ERRORS --- THE GOSPELS CANNOT BE TRUSTED TO BE RELIABLE. {by the words of retired Bishop John S. Spong.}
C- "that is a lifetime over 6000 years."
---- You keep mentioning 6000 years !!!. Can you tell me when the 6000 years started, and when it ends?.
---- That reminded me , about an archbishop, and here IS his findings:
"The genealogies listed in Genesis chapters five and eleven provide the age at which Adam and his descendants each begot the next generation in a successive ancestral line from Adam to Abraham. By determining where Abraham fits into history chronologically and by adding up the ages provided in Genesis chapters five and eleven, it becomes apparent that the Bible teaches the earth to be about 6,000 years old, give or take a few hundred years."
"ANOTHER OPINION:
The next 7,000 years are the generations of Adam (man).
Gen 5:1-2 and II Peter 3:8-9.
There are to be seven 1000 years. A day to God is a 1000 years with the
perspective of the generations of Adam.
The beginning of each day begins with a significant purpose to God's plan of the creation of His eternal Kingdom.References to current Earth Age:
Gal 1:4, Eph 2:7, Eph 3:5, Eph 3:21."
"Days One, Two Three and Four are showing the creation/birth of men that are in the line to Christ.
AND ANOTHER OPINION:
Ussher's Chronology
Actually, scripture nowhere says how old the earth is, at least not directly. (It also doesn't say how God created, or why.) Why, then, do so many believe that the earth isn't very old? There are two scriptural reasons. Both assume that the creation of Adam and Eve took place very close to the beginning of the earth. One of these scriptural reasons is that it is possible to use the genealogies in Genesis to come up with an age for the earth. Bishop Ussher famously did that. I personally have a bible with Ussher's chronology in it. He calculated that creation took place in 4004 B.C. The other scriptural reason is the description of creation events as being a week, or rather six days, in length, and the belief that this week included most prehistoric events. The terms suggesting a week for creation occur not only in Genesis, but also in the Ten Commandments, so it is impossible to dismiss the idea as simply based on non-literal material from the beginning of Genesis.
Archbishop
James Ussher of Armagh, Ireland, calculated from the Bible (augmented by some astronomy and numerology) that creation began on October 23, 4004 BC."
[THE CREATION BEGAN ON OCTOBER 23 4004 BC.] by Arcbishop James Assher calculation, from the Bible. That is the most stupid calculation ever made, and it was made by Archbishop depending on his Bible !!!.
---- THE 21ST CENTURY CALCULATION RPOVE HIM AND HIS BIBLE WRONG. Here it is:
"Based on extensive and detailed scientific evidence, geologists have determined the age of the earth.
Earth to be around 4.55 billion years .
This age represents a compromise between the oldest known terrestrial minerals – small crystals of zircon from the Jack Hills of Western Australia – and astronomers' and planetologists' determinations of the age of the solar system based in part on radiometric age dating of meteorite material and lunar samples"
That is scientific talk , and not a garbage calculation from a priest from books filled with errors.
D- "your god and all the gods we all possess are about to meet the REAL God soon".
This sort of foolish talks, it take place among those who do not believe in ONE GOD, for example , the Persians, the Greks, the Romans and others, and it still take place today, in the Hindu and the Buddhist who do believe in their own gods , and it take place by people like you..
My God in the CREATOR, and HE is the God of Adam, Abraham, Moses and Jesus.
God gave HIS Commandments, and the FIRST is:
YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER gods BEFORE ME.
And Jesus said:
The foremost is, 'Hear O Israel! ' THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD.
I DON'T THINK YOU UNDERSTAND GOD'S COMMANDMENTS, AND MOSES AND JESUS WORDS.
sonofjesus, My GOD is the ONE AND ONLY GOD, THE ONLY TRUE GOD [J-17:3], THE GOD OF ALL OF US, FROM ADAM TO MOSES AND JESUS TO US TOO.
THE REAL GOD, IS ONE GOD, AND HE IS NOT MADE OF THREE PARTS.
If you think or believe that your REAL god is Jesus, that makes Moses and Jesus words and the words of God [the commandments] are false.
Your god Jesus, was created by the Roman Emperors and the bisops in Rome, and that came after 375 years from when he was made as the son of god by Paul.
YOU ARE EXPERTS AT SETTING ASIDE THE COMMANDMENT OF GOD IN ORDER TO KEEP YOUR TRADITION.
{Go back and read the commandments}
The Second commandment:
YOU SHALL NOT MAKE FOR YOURSELF AN IDOL, OR ANY LIKENESS....
Look at your churches inside and outside and at your home it is full of IDOLS. Jesus, Mary, Paul, and the tens of what you made and call them saints, all those are curved from wood and stones, and you kneel, and kiss and talk to them. that is what IDOLS IS.
The churches created all that , and created fancy stories only to bring more people in and to grow and make more fortune, but God, asked us to believe in HIM only and warned us not to create and woship idols from any shape not in heaven and not on earth etc.
E- "God is cool"
---- You went too far, the cool thing is a term used mostly today by the un-educated people and the people on the street, and it is a human things, and it is foolish to use this term for GOD. GOD is not a human, as we are, me and you. GOD IS THE HOLY SPIRIT, and that is my LIVING GOD who is in HEAVEN, and your god , the god which the churches made up is dead on this earth. Jesus soul and every soul on this earth will go back to HIM, the only God who created all.
I DO LOVE AND RESPECT JESUS AND HIS WORDS, BUT YOU DO NOT RESPECT JESUS AND HIS WORDS, WHILE YOU CLAIM THAT YOU LOVE HIM !!!!
Name:sonofjesus •
Date: 10/27/08 15:44
A: Sam, you a trip. Oh, people of God don't use that term either. Only the educated know this though huh. lol. cracks me up how polluted mankinds thinking is today. Sam, you win the garbage in the brain award fer sure. no way any soul in creation can unravel that mess. lol And no, I do not love you. I hate most souls with pollution among the brain and souls. Not as much as God does though. But hey, who am I anyway? Just an uneducated soul who lacks mankinds teachings. Dumb me. lol
Name:sam •
Date: 10/27/08 23:59
A: Hello, sonofjesus,
You said:
A- "I do not love you" !!!
---- That is OK, but why ?
---- I D NOT HATE YOU, AND I DO NOT HAVE A PLACE IN MY HEART FOR HATE, AND I DO RESPECT PEOPLE EVEN IF THEY DO NOT AGREE WITH ME.
---- I been learning a lot in this FORUMS, from all those who share with me their thoughts, Christians, Buddhists and those who do not belieave in God.
B- "Sam, you win the garbage in the brain award fer sure."
---- COMING FROM YOU, THAT IS OK. TOO. That is better than the "huh." lol."Dumb me. lol ", at list here you come with a full sentence with some meaning for change.
C- " But hey, who am I anyway?
---- You already gave one part as an answer to your question, and I do agree with you. But you forget the most important things and which has nothing to do with EDUCATION, it is the
1- THE SELF RESPECT, and the RESPECT for the others, adding to it the
2- THE NEGATIVE ATTITUDE, that is clear here, "cracks me up how polluted mankinds thinking is today".
sonofjesus, I do agree with you on that point, the world been changed what we , that me and you and millions others, even with more educated people than ever before, and the problem is because the careless of some and the nigativity from others.
The world need evryone to think POSITIVE AND ACT,, not to stand on the side and hate and blame.
D- "Just an uneducated soul who lacks mankinds teachings."
---- I was not educated when I left the school for seven years. Seven years I been working very hard, and I did not the English language at school, my first books were "READER ONE & ENGLISH-ARABIC dictionary" , and the first word I learned is "THE WIZARD", after one year, I started reading the National Geographic magazine, old copies to start with. Today, and while I am writing my words I still go back to my dictionary, but now it is an English - English "THE LITTLE OXFORD".,
and thanks to the "WORD PERFECT 12" which help correcting my speling , and it show me right now it is with double "LL".
I AM 70 NOW, but I will never stop learning. I had a long journey, and a very rough time in it, when I thought that the world closed on me, but that never stop me from trying to do better and be positive and that what makes the differernt, Thanks God that I did make my dream comr through, but getting my son to be better than myself.
E- Dumb me. lol
---- I cannot stop you from saying what you say, but I wish that you use your words carefully, and never try to heart onyone even the one you do not like.
Matthew-12:36 But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment.
-Theese are great words. Jesus gave us many other lessons, and so is the commandments of God by Moses, and it does not matter how educated we become, our education will be useless if we do not follow the laws and the teaching of Jesus and the other prophets.
My Message to you is peace and love.
Name:sonofjesus •
Date: 10/28/08 10:33
A: whatever Sam
Name:Enron •
Date: 01/10/09 17:12
A: Reply to Posts about the authenticity of the Quran:
Indiana Jones meets the Da Vinci Code
By Spengler - January 10, 2009
Islam watchers blogged all weekend about news that a secret archive
of ancient Islamic texts had surfaced after 60 years of suppression.
Andrew Higgins' Wall Street Journal report that the photographic
record of Koranic manuscripts, supposedly destroyed during World War
II but occulted by a scholar of alleged Nazi sympathies, reads like
a conflation of the Da Vinci Code with Indiana Jones and the Holy
Grail.
The Da Vinci Code offered a silly fantasy in which Opus Dei,
homicidal monks and twisted billionaires chased after proof that
Christianity is a hoax. But the story of the photographic archive of
the Bavarian Academy of Sciences, now ensconced in a Berlin vault,
is a case of life imitating truly dreadful art. It even has
Nazis. "I hate those guys!" as Indiana Jones said.
No one is going to produce proof that Jesus Christ did not rise from
the grave three days after the Crucifixion, of course. Humankind
will choose to believe or not that God revealed Himself in this
fashion. But Islam stands at risk of a Da Vinci Code effect, for in
Islam, God's self-revelation took the form not of the Exodus, nor
the revelation at Mount Sinai, nor the Resurrection, but rather a
book, namely the Koran. The Encyclopaedia of Islam (1982)
observes, "The closest analogue in Christian belief to the role of
the Koran in Muslim belief is not the Bible, but Christ." The Koran
alone is the revelatory event in Islam.
What if scholars can prove beyond reasonable doubt that the Koran
was not dictated by the Archangel Gabriel to the Prophet Mohammad
during the 7th century, but rather was redacted by later writers
drawing on a variety of extant Christian and Jewish sources? That
would be the precise equivalent of proving that the Jesus Christ of
the Gospels really was a composite of several individuals, some of
whom lived a century or two apart.
It has long been known that variant copies of the Koran exist,
including some found in 1972 in a paper grave at Sa'na in Yemen, the
subject of a cover story in the January 1999 Atlantic Monthly.
Before the Yemeni authorities shut the door to Western scholars, two
German academics, Gerhard R Puin and H C Graf von Bothmer, made
35,000 microfilm copies, which remain at the University of the
Saarland. Many scholars believe that the German archive, which
includes photocopies of manuscripts as old as 700 AD, will provide
more evidence of variation in the Koran.
The history of the archive reads like an Islamic version of the Da
Vinci Code. It is not clear why its existence was occulted for sixty
years, or why it has come to light now, or when scholars will have
free access to it. Higgins' account begins,
On the night of April 24, 1944, British air force bombers hammered a
former Jesuit college here housing the Bavarian Academy of Science.
The 16th-century building crumpled in the inferno. Among the
treasures lost, later lamented Anton Spitaler, an Arabic scholar at
the academy, was a unique photo archive of ancient manuscripts of
the Koran.
The 450 rolls of film had been assembled before the war for a bold
venture: a study of the evolution of the Koran, the text Muslims
view as the verbatim transcript of God's word. The wartime
destruction made the project "outright impossible", Mr Spitaler
wrote in the 1970s.
Mr Spitaler was lying. The cache of photos survived, and he was
sitting on it all along. The truth is only now dribbling out to
scholars - and a Koran research project buried for more than 60
years has risen from the grave. Why Spitaler concealed the archive
is unknown, but Koranic critics who challenge the received Muslim
account suspect his motives. Higgins reports,
"The whole period after 1945 was poisoned by the Nazis," says Gunter
Luling, a scholar who was drummed out of his university in the 1970s
after he put forward heterodox theories about the Koran's origins.
His doctoral thesis argued that the Koran was lifted in part from
Christian hymns. Blackballed by Spitaler, Luling lost his teaching
job and launched a fruitless six-year court battle to be reinstated.
Feuding over the Koran, he says, "ruined my life".
He wrote books and articles at home, funded by his wife, who took a
job in a pharmacy. Asked by a French journal to write a paper on
German Arabists, Luling went to Berlin to examine wartime records.
Germany's prominent postwar Arabic scholars, he says, "were all
connected to the Nazis".
Why were the Nazis so eager to suppress Koranic criticism? Most
likely, the answer lies in their alliance with Islamist leaders, who
shared their hatred of the Jews and also sought leverage against the
British in the Middle East. The most recent of many books on this
subject, Matthias Kuntzel's Jihad and Jew-Hatred, was reviewed
January 13 in the New York Times by Jeffrey Goldberg, who reports
Kuntzel makes a bold and consequential argument: the dissemination
of European models of anti-Semitism among Muslims was not haphazard,
but an actual project of the Nazi Party, meant to turn Muslims
against Jews and Zionism. He says that in the years before World War
II, two Muslim leaders in particular willingly and knowingly carried
Nazi ideology directly to the Muslim masses. They were Haj Amin al-
Husseini, the mufti of Jerusalem, and the Egyptian proto-Islamist
Hassan al-Banna, the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood.
It may be a very long time before the contents of the Bavarian
archive are known. Some Koranic critics, notably the pseudonymous
scholar "Ibn Warraq", claim that Professor Angelika Neuwirth, the
archive's custodian, has denied access to scholars who stray from
the traditional interpretation. Neuwirth admits that she has had the
archive since 1990. She has 18 years of funding to study the
Bavarian archive, and it is not clear who will have access to it.
When the Atlantic Monthly story on Koranic criticism appeared nine
years ago, author Toby Lester expected early results from the Yemeni
finds.
Von Bothmer, Puin, and other scholars will finally have a chance to
scrutinize the texts and to publish their findings freely - a
prospect that thrills Puin. "So many Muslims have this belief that
everything between the two covers of the Koran is just God's
unaltered word," he says. "They like to quote the textual work that
shows that the Bible has a history and did not fall straight out of
the sky, but until now the Koran has been out of this discussion.
The only way to break through this wall is to prove that the Koran
has a history too. The Sana'a fragments will help us to do this.
In 2005, Puin published a collection of articles under the title,
Die dunklen Anfange. Neue Forschungen zur Entstehung und fruhen
Geschichte des Islam ("The dark beginnings: new research on the
origin and early history of Islam," Hans Schiller Verlag, 2005).
This drew on the work of the pseudonymous German
philologist "Christoph Luxenburg", who sought to prove that
incomprehensible passages in the Koran were written in Syriac-
Aramaic rather than Arabic. Luxenburg's thesis became notorious for
explaining that the "virgins" provided to Islamic jihadis in
paradise were only raisins. The Koran, according to the research of
Puin and his associates, copied a great deal of extant Christian
material.
Apart from the little group at the University of the Saarland and a
handful of others, though, the Western Academy is loathe to go near
the issue. In the United States, where Arab and Islamic Studies rely
on funding from the Gulf States, an interest in Koranic criticism is
a failsafe way to commit career suicide.
Neuwirth has led the attack on "Christoph Luxenburg" and other
Koranic critics who dispute the traditional Muslim account.
According to Higgins, "Ms Neuwirth, the Berlin Koran expert, and Mr
Marx, her research director, have tried to explain the project to
the Muslim world in trips to Iran, Turkey, Syria and Morocco. When a
German newspaper trumpeted their work last fall on its front page
and predicted that it would 'overthrow rulers and topple kingdoms',
Mr Marx called Arab television network al-Jazeera and other media to
deny any assault on the tenets of Islam."
Despite her best efforts to reassure Islamic opinion, Higgins
reports, she has stepped on landmines herself. "Ms Neuwirth, though
widely regarded as respectful of Islamic tradition, got sideswiped
by Arab suspicion of Western scholars. She was fired from a teaching
post in Jordan, she says, for mentioning a radical revisionist
scholar during a lecture in Germany."
The story thus far recalls the ending of another Indiana Jones film
(Raiders of the Lost Ark), in which the Ark of the Covenant is filed
away in an enormous warehouse, presumably never to be touched again.
The Muslim world will continue to treat Koranic criticism as an
existential risk, and apply whatever pressure is required to
discourage it - albino monks presumably included.
But that is not the end of the matter. The Islamic world is forced
to adopt an openly irrational stance, employing its power to
intimidate scholars and frustrate the search for truth. It is
impossible for Muslims to propose a dialogue with Western religions,
as 38 Islamic scholars did in an October 13 letter to Pope Benedict
XVI and other Christian leaders, and rule the subject of text
criticism out of the discussion.
Precisely for this reason, Church leaders see little basis for a
dialogue with Islam. Jean-Louis Cardinal Tauran, who directs the
Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue, told the French
daily La Croix, "Muslims do not accept discussion about the Koran,
because they say it was written under the dictates of God. With such
an absolutist interpretation, it's difficult to discuss the contents
of the faith."
Throughout the Internet, Islamist sites denounce the work of a
handful of marginalized scholars as evidence of a plot by Christian
missionaries to sabotage Islam. What the Muslim world cannot conceal
is its vulnerability and fear in the face of Koranic criticism. In
the great battle for converts through the Global South, this may
turn out to be a paralyzing disadvantage.
Copyright 2008 Asia Times Online Ltd. All rights reserved.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 01/17/09 4:23
A: Enron,
That is a very interesting article about the Qu'ran/Koran.Wikipedia has a very exstensive study and article giving the back ground and history.
The Nazis were interested in everything Occult but they corrupted and twisted the truth to their advantage.There were no Jews living in the Middle East since the time of their expulsion during the crusades and they were nearly wiped out by the Catholic Church which persecuted them for the death of Jesus and blamed them for the Black Death during the Middle Ages.Isreal was established after World War 2 ended.
The Qu'ran was originally written on date leaves by Mohammed and then taught verbatim and learned by rote as is a custom in the Middle Eastern cultures.
Welcome to the forum.thank you for bringing your interesting article.
Happy New Year!!!!!!
Panluna
Name:dattaswami1 •
Date: 02/07/09 15:02
A: Whether Jesus married Mary Magdalene
Some people say that Jesus married Mary Magdalene and most of the people say that Jesus was a bachelor. Similarly in Hinduism, most of the people say that Hanuman is a bachelor but some say that He married Suvarchala. This argument is unnecessary because God comes down in human form to attract all types of the souls to uplift them.
The main aim of the human form is that He wants to become very close to the human beings. If the qualities of the human form are also matching, the human beings get more and more attracted and the Lord can become more and more close to the human beings. Therefore, the human form of God contains similar qualities of the human beings into which He is entering.
The human being is made of the three qualities. The quality is a thought or feeling and is a wave of the awareness. Awareness itself is dynamic and is a work form. The quality is also kinetic energy and is work form. The inert energy is transformed into awareness and the inert energy, which is the same primary energy in the form of cosmos, is also dynamic and work of God.
All the modifications of the primary energy (Matter, awareness, light, heat etc.) are also work forms only. Therefore everything in this world starting from a feeling or quality up to the primary cosmic energy is work form only. Therefore, it is said that the world is made of the three qualities which are just the feelings of God only.
The entire world is the imagination of God and therefore the quality or feeling forms the world. The human body in which God is hidden is the human incarnation. The human body consisting of matter, energy and feelings is the medium which is relatively real with respect to God. The worker is God and the creation is the work. Therefore, anything in the world is unreal from the point of God. Therefore, it makes no difference whether the human incarnation is a bachelor or married.
Name:sam •
Date: 02/08/09 0:13
A: dattaswami1 ,
A- "Therefore, the human form of God contains similar qualities of the human beings into which He is entering."
------ God, entering the human !!!, HOW ???, WOW, How did find out ???.
B- "Therefore, { it is said} that the world is made of the three qualities which are {just the feelings of God only}. "
------ IT IS SAID???. ........ Said by whom?.
------ Just the feeling of God ..... ONLY ??? . ...... Tell me who knows God's feeling ?, Did anyone met with God?.
C- "The human body in which God is hidden is the human incarnation"
------ God hidden in the human body !!!!! , How? , who told you?, or it is JUST said and you spread the words.
------ Can you explain the incarnation and how it work please.
D- "The worker is God and the creation is the work."
------- BEFORE you said, that God hidden in the human body , and that makes the human God.
AFTER, you said,the worker is God and the creation is the work, is that means LOGICALLY SPEAKING that the human is the worker and the creator ?
E- "Therefore, anything in the world is unreal from the point of God."
------ FROM THE POINT OF GOD !!!! WOW...... How did YOU find all that knowledge about God ???. Or it is said.
In the 21st century, still there are many who worship stones and cows and rats, and they belive in dragons and follow the steps of those who create empty philosophy, or it is said.
Our world today is different, and it is not only the land [earth] that we walk on , and the cows and the sheeps and the rats, and the billions of other creations, but a big universe with trillions of stars and planets, and the human did not created all that, just we came to discover it by scientific work, and we should understand that the power of the creation is far beyond anything of what we imagine, and the creator is above all what we can imagine. We should respect this power which we call it God.
Name:dattaswami1 •
Date: 02/12/09 15:32
A: sam;
God comes in human form for a multi-dimensional program
God comes in human form for a multi-dimensional program. He preaches divine knowledge covering all humanity including atheists. Miracles are mainly for atheists alone and some atheists have been converted into theists through the miracles. God receives the services of certain blessed devotees, who had done a lot of penance with that desire. He selects for His service only such a blessed soul, who has done a lot of penance in the past. The human incarnation mainly comes here only to fulfill the desire of such blessed devotees. Having come to earth for that purpose, He always tries to uplift all through the divine knowledge and miracles. The few exceptional blessed devotees are pleased to serve the Lord personally and see the pleasure on the face of the Lord, for which they did a lot of penance for several births. This is the main purpose of the visit of God in human form to earth.
Name:dattaswami1 •
Date: 02/12/09 15:34
A: Sam;
God has to come in human form in every generation
There are certain good and learned souls, which are interested in the spiritual path to gain the grace of the God. But the spiritual path is in confusion since several human beings interpret the scripture of God in different ways. Only God has to give the correct version of His own scripture. God has to come in human form in every generation because as soon as God exits, selfish people misinterpret His message constantly. The misinterpretation satisfies the majority of the people, which is incapable of practicing in the right path. For example God decides that 70% is the distinction. When God exits, the majority of the students, which is incapable of getting the distinction like to bring down the percentage so that they can also have the satisfaction of the distinction.
A student who gets 7% wants to have distinction. Now the misinterpretation is given like this. In the number 70 there are two numbers. One is 7 and the other is 0. Since 0 has no value, 70 must mean 7. Therefore, the student getting 7% can get distinction. Such misinterpretation by a mischievous teacher is admired by a large majority of students. Now he is the greatest teacher with large majority of followers! This is the present situation of false preachers misleading the vast majority. The distinction can be neither given by the teacher nor by the students. The board of interview selecting the students of distinction for service has the acknowledge of the distinction for which only there is real fruit.
Hence, God gives the divine fruit only to the real distinction since He is well aware of the marks of distinction, which were prescribed by Him only. Therefore, God had to come again and again and also everywhere simultaneously (especially when there was no electronic communications in the world) to establish the correct interpretation in the entire world. This correct interpretation attracts only the merit students and the majority consisting of incapable students will reject this. God is also not bothered about such majority because even if the truth is established to them, there will be no use in the case of such students. Krishna never preached spiritual knowledge to many people in His life. In His entire life, He chose only one occasion to preach Gita to just Arjuna only.
Name:sam •
Date: 02/14/09 0:02
A: dattaswami1
You said,
"This is the main purpose of the visit of God in human form to earth. "
WOW !!!, that is great. BUT ?, when you said God visited the earth, and in human form, that will raise the questios:
- How many times did God visited ?, and when , and where?
- Did God visit Africa, or America Or Australia ?
- Did God took the human form of the black or only the white ?
- Can you bring some REAL examples [not just empty talk] to prove that God took the froms of human ?
Those very simple question, and needs simple answers, so, please don't bring philosophical answer of many pages.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 03/24/09 0:27
A: Hi Sam,
I might have an answer to your above questions.
The Abrahamic based religions:Judaism,Christianity and islam observe and celebrate a deity who lives outside of the human body and any religion like Buddhism,Hinduism and Paganism see the deity within as the spark of life in all of the natural world and human souls.
People with heightened or above normally developed senses can be more receptive to vibrations or visions than other people who close their minds who don't percieve above the norm and then they miss out on some of the most incredible experiences.
Hinduism and Islam are so different in the basic beliefs of monotheism vs polytheism that I don't think there would ever be a meeting of the religious minds.
Have they gotten through the red-tape yet and got into the adjacent tomb?
The reality is based on the evidence found in the tomb and facts turned up in the investigation.There was a "fairy-tale myth" surrounding the truth and those stories were told by the people who believed what they were told for generations.
And if the All-seeing -Allknowing Deity is capable of doing anything then I'm sure he/she/it/violet flame could have appeared in Jesus or any human vessel or flora----like the burning bush in the story of Moses or the many manifestations the deity chooses for the purpose and intentions.Our lesson is to learn how to connect and understand this innercosmic joy.
Hinduism is filled mystically guided stories----this is how the deity speaks to us-----perhaps the bright and shining ones are too brilliant for mere mortals.----There is a Greek legend about Zeus .....and many encounters with the deities of all cultures.
HAPPY SPRING EVERYONE!!!!
Name:Callie Lynn Williams •
Date: 03/29/09 1:03
A: Sister in Yeshua, my answer is by the flesh, I do not know because I did not read that in the Bible, but in the Spirit, I believe he was and is married.
Father thankyou, in the name of Jesus. Amen.
Name:The_Seeker •
Date: 04/06/09 20:39
A: This reply is for Sam on the topic "God comes down to the planet Earth":
I have read your message threads and found it very interesting and maybe worthwhile if I can share some of the things that I learned on my quest of the Absolute Truth.
I would first like to offer my humble obeisances to my beloved spiritual master, his divine grace Giridhari Swami who accepted me as a disciple and to his spiritual master, his divine grace A.C. Bahktivedanta Swami Prabhupada who is responsible for spreading Krishna Consciousness in the whole world, whose words and teachings I simple repeat for the purpose of this discussion.
Before I start I would like to point out some facts both scientific and spiritual, about some of the most common qualities of the Supreme Personality of Godhead which I sure everybody would agree:
1.) God is the All-Powerful (Omnipotent)
2.) God is All-Pervading (Omnipresent)
3.) God is All-Knowing (Omniscient)
4.) God is Unlimited & Eternal
5.) God is the Alpha and Omega
6.) God is All-Attractive
You get my point right?
Now, I understand that you said you were asking simple questions and therefore you expect a simple answer.
I will not try to argue with that but instead present you with a "Clue" rather than a "Proof" that I hope might lead satisfy your question.
If you are really asking a question and wanted to get an answer rather than challenging a previous posting which appeared so philosophical and complicated, then this is a good time to continue the discussion.
I will try to address your questions one by one, per topic or subject and not try to jump to any conclusion along the course of the discussion. That part I will leave it up to you and the readers of this thread.
If you want the scientific method to be applied to this discussion, I would expect you to do the process accordingly.
We will start with the Q & A:
1.) You asked: "God, entering the human !!!, HOW ???, WOW, How did find out ???".
Comments:
I believe every person who believes in God and every denomination knows about this. Some may call him the "Holy Spirit" or "Holy Ghost" and some may call him as the "Paramatma" or the "Super Soul" who resides in everyone's heart. Just as two birds sitting in one branch of the tree, one being the individual soul and the other the Super Soul or the Holy Spirit. This satisfies the quality of being "Omnipresent" and being unlimited.
2.) IT IS SAID???...... Said by whom?......Just the feeling of God ..... ONLY ??? . ...... Tell me who knows God's feeling ?, Did anyone met with God?.
Comments:
a.) I think dattaswami was just too reserved not to tell you who said it. I believe he doesn't want to confuse you with names of people you didn't know.
b.) If you study the history of God (not Jesus) in many different forms of Faith and Beliefs, you will find out that not only one person " SAID IT" as you quoted. The passing down of information is carried over by a long line of "disciplic succession" (Parampara in Sanskrit) dating back form the creation starting from God himself. I can tell you one of the great personality who "SAID IT" was Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu who is a disciple of Isvara Puri and they belong to this disciplic succession that I'm telling you about. So the things that I'm telling you is just a repetition of what my spiritual master has told me and which instructions my spiritual master got it from this line of disciplic succession. If you find it hard to understand i would suggest we get this into a deeper discussion separate form this Q & A.
c.) Nobody knows what God is feeling unless you get to know him personally. The people who what God is feeling are the people who have devoted their lives in His service with all the minds, soul, heart and entire being without expecting anything in return. Those people who have given up the material world and who have dedicated their lives in preaching and spreading the glories of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Those are the people I am trying to follow their footsteps and learn from their instructions.
d.) We all came from God and therefore we all have met him. But because we are covered with Anger, Greed and Lust we forget him the moment we take birth ih the material world.
If you wat to be more specific then the answer is "YES", millions of people have met him during his advent to this material world. You just didn't know or not aware of it because you were not born yet during that time. In every millennium he appears in the material world himself to liberate the pious and annihilate the impious. If you want to know the details of his appearances and the names of the particular incarnation in a particular point in time we can discuss it in another topic. But just to give you a glimpse of it, he appeared more that 5,000 years ago in the same way that he will appear the so-called "End of Days"
3.) God hidden in the human body !!!!! , How? , who told you?, or it is JUST said and you spread the words. Can you explain the incarnation and how it work please.
Comments:
I think what dattaswami meant by "God hidden in human body" is that God appearing in human form thus, the idea of "INCARNATION" is being used. To explain this, let us first go back to the many different qualities of God that exhibit his opulence and power. We know that God is All-Powerful and Unlimited therefore, he can have as many different forms as he want and can appear in many different places simultaneously all having the same quality, quantity, and personality. This quality is called "Om Purnam Ada Purnam Idam" or complete in itself no matter how many times you split it.
When God appears in the material world he takes on a shape or form so that people with their naked senses can perceive and interact with him. This way a relationship is being established due to the presence of the form or shape, in this case a human form. But God is not limited to appear in human form. The whole material universe is also an incarnation of God called the "Material Energy". The other two being the "Spiritual Energy" and the "Marginal Energy". When God appears in the material world, his body is not material as compared to the common living entity which is us the humans. God appears as he is where the Soul and Body are ONE and non-different. Unlike us, our body is made of three compositions...The Spiritual Body or the Soul, The Gross Material Body which is made of Earth, Water, Air, Fire and Ether, and last is the Subtle Material Body which is made of the Mind, Intelligence and False Ego.
Going back to God, he is purely Spiritual in nature and he is not contaminated even with the interaction of matter. When he takes a form it is called "INCARNATE" meaning to take on a concrete and perceivable form or to represent in bodily form. Every time he appears no matter how many times it is the same body. Unlike us, we "REINCARNATE" and the process is different for us because we need a father and a mother to take a shape thru the process of intercourse or nowadays we have the "INVITRO" procedure but still we need a donor and a receiver or mother to fully generate the cells. God doesn't need these things and he can appear anyway he want, anytime he want, and anywhere he want. He may or may not accept a parent depending on time, place and circumstance. There are many different ways that God has appeared in the material world and some of his incarnations or Avatars are Krishna, Buddha and the latest incarnation who appeared sometime between the early 1400's and late 1500's is Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu in Calcutta, India. In this incarnation he appeared as a humble servant and a disciple with no other business but propagating the glories of the Holy Name. If you want to know the details of this incarnation we can discuss it in a separate topic. I'm this incarnation alone will spark curiosity in one's mind and raise many different challenging questions to his personality as God serving God.
4.) BEFORE you said, that God hidden in the human body , and that makes the human God. AFTER, you said, the worker is God and the creation is the work, is that means LOGICALLY SPEAKING that the human is the worker and the creator?
Comments:
This statement is misleading. let me put it this way...There are two types of personality here...God the Supreme Soul and we the individual soul. If we go back in time and forget about the material world ever existed we find ourselves and God living together in a place called "Vaikunta Loka" or the Spiritual World where everything is full of "Saccit, Ananda, Vigraha" or "Eternal, Full of Knowledge, Full of Bliss".
Everything there is spiritual without any tinge of material contamination. The common term for this is "Heaven" but we will not use heaven in this subject in an absolute sense since heaven can also mean the Sun, the Moon and the Stars...thus the heavenly bodies floating in space and they are all made of matter.
Another premise that I would like to establish is that the individual soul is eternal just like God where all of us (the SOUL not the material body) exist simultaneously with God in the Spiritual Kingdom. God has no beginning and no end therefore since we exist simultaneously with God we also have no beginning and end and therefore we have the same quality as God but minute in quantity. Just as the vast ocean has the same quality of the drop of ocean but differs only in quantity. Similarly the individual soul has a very limited capability as the Super Soul hence, we are all servants and he is the only master. But just as any scripture says, we are given a freedom or a free will to serve him or not. have it his way or have it our way, and so on. And by God's law, the moment we think that we can enjoy separately with him, God has already thought of a place for the rebellious and house them there for as long as they want to enjoy separately being forgetful of their true relationship with the Supreme. That is the time when the material world is created and the individual soul is forced on to take a material body which is temporary, ignorant and miserable. But because of the many different forms of illusion we think that the material world is the place where we can enjoy eternally. In reality this material world is a prison house and the only way we can get out is reviving our lost relationship with God.
Anyway, if you also want to learn about the details of the creation we can also discuss that in a separate topic. But just to clarify on the confusion of the Creator and the Created, what is created and what already exist......God is the Supreme Creator and the material world is the created. The individual soul is not created since it exist simultaneously with God and we only get a material body when we want to enjoy separately with God, thus throwing us in the material world.
5.) WOW !!!, that is great. BUT ?, when you said God visited the earth, and in human form, that will raise the questions:
- How many times did God visited ?, and when , and where?
- Did God visit Africa, or America Or Australia ?
- Did God took the human form of the black or only the white ?
- Can you bring some REAL examples [not just empty talk] to prove that God took the forms of human ?
Comments:
a.) God visited the planet Earth unlimited time. How much can you remember? You don't even remember when you are 1 yr old. I have already mentioned above but if you really have an open mind you should read the Vedic Scriptures and not just jump into conclusions thinking that you know a lot of things and better than anybody else.
b.) God visited many different places not just Africa, America, Australia, Earth, Moon, Sun, etc...He even visited Hell and outside the material universe beyond your wildest imagination. Why do you limit the unlimited with you tiny brain and speculative knowledge? You think you are better than God?
c.) God took many different colors in the human form. To site an example, Krishna is Black, Rama is Green, Chaitanya is Gold, Baladeva id White, Varaha is Red and many more. The forthcoming incarnation Kali, he will appear as White. God is everything so what is this an issue to you?
d.) If you want proof that God really took human form is not easy as 1..2..3 dude. You have to investigate it yourself. You have you know God who he really is and that can be achieved if you conduct your own investigation. Because if anybody who has seen God and presents him to you, you would not believe anyway so what's the point in asking in a challenging manner? Why don't you go ahead and discover it yourself? That is how they found out the Tomb.....they investigate!!!
Hope everyone is well...
Servant of the servant,
The_Seeker
Name:sam •
Date: 04/10/09 23:38
A: Hello, The Seeker,
Thank you for answering me.
There are few points that I took from your post which needs to be discussed in a logical and scientific way:
1- [I can share some of the things that I learned on my quest of the Absolute Truth]
From that, I understand that in your search for the truth you did not depend on your own brain abilities to evaluate and judge things, but you took what was fed to you by the others, and I call that a TOTAL BLINDNESS, which most of the people in all religions and faith system do.
2- [I would first like to offer my humble obeisance to my beloved spiritual master]
From that, I understand that you are not a free person, but a slave to your spiritual master which you blindly believe what he knows is the absolute truth. SO, when you said: “my quest of the absolute truth” is no more than an empty words, LOGICALLY SPEAKING.
After that, I do believe that all what you came with from ideas and thought, questions and answers are those OF WHAT YOU LEARN FROM YOUR MASTER.
3- [If you want the scientific method to be applied to this discussion, I would expect you to do the process accordingly]
What is SCIENTIFIC ....a concerned with science; according to principles of science...
I do really understand that, and always I do my search for the truth by following the two most important things, SCIENCE AND LOGIC. I will not follow MYTHS or SPIRITUAL MASTERS or FALSE STORIES which came from the past, and the dark ages.
4- [You wrote many comments as an answers to my previous questions, and you talked about things that had no scientific values and cannot be accepted logically, and that came after you asked me TO APPLY SCIENTIFIC METHODS in our discussion !!!?.
Here some:
a) “ The passing down of information is carried over by a long line of "disciplic succession" (Parampara in Sanskrit) dating back form the creation starting from God himself.”
My question is “ Are those who passed down the information, and as you say from god himself knows the world which they live in, and knows that the earth is not a flat peace of land, and knows that our earth and the moon orbiting the sun, and the stars are like our sun and that there are billions of galaxies with billions of stars in the sky above them ?, and maybe there are planets like our earth out there.
All those knowledge are the 20th century knowledge, and we come to know these facts by applying the scientific methods, and not the spiritual methods. [Parampara in Sankrit] and Moses and Jesus and Muhammad and no others had any such a knowledge about the world which they live in, so HOW CAN WE TRUST THEIR INFORMATION ? When they talk about the creation and God Himself?.
b) “Nobody knows what God is feeling unless you get to know him personally”...”We all came from God and therefore we all have met him”
Here, you talk about God as a person {we all met Him...get to know Him personally}.
My questions:
- If you know Him, and met Him, then you can describe Him, and how He look like and how big is He and you should know where he lives and resides, and if He eats food and drink wine, and if He has a family etc., can you do that ?
c)- “if you really have an open mind you should read the Vedic Scriptures and not just jump into conclusions thinking that you know a lot of things and better than anybody else.”
First, I do have an open mind, and it is my own, to judge things in a logical and scientific way, and I am not influenced by a spiritual master [or masters],
Second, I do not jump to conclusions. I read, then I analyze carefully what I read to see if what was written [from old scriptures] can be accepted logically or scientifically or it is just myth stories been written by people who has no knowledge except writing whatever came to their mind from imaginations. For an example, I WILL BRING YOUR EXAMPLE:
“God took many different colors in the human form. To site an example, Krishna is Black, Rama is Green, Chaitanya is Gold, Baladeva id White, Varaha is Red and many more. The forthcoming incarnation Kali, he will appear as White.”
PLEASE REMEMBER WHAT YOU SAID: “If you want the scientific method to be applied to this discussion”
WOW... GOD WITH MANY COLORS !!!.... So, when you talk and mention God in your post,[according to your belief], do you mean ONE GOD, or MANY GODS?.
About “KALI” , I understand that he is not here yet, but in advance you know his color as white!!!, So, can you tell me where was KALI, and in what form KALI was before his incarnation.
IS WHAT YOU BROUGHT ABOVE AND IN ALL YOUR COMMENTS HAS ANY SCIENTIFIC VALUES AND CAN BE ACCEPTED IN THE TERMS OF LOGIC ?.
Third, you said: “you should read the Vedic Scriptures”.
I say thanks. And I am not going to read your book [books] or any book , after finding that it is filled with old unlogical and myths stories.
And because your scriptures holds the same information as such as what you been writing in your post, and which holds no more than unlogical and myths stories, I do feel that it is a waste of time for me to read it.
The Quran gave many examples, and one of them about the people who do not believe in HIM [as the one and only God], and in HIS messages:
Q- 24:40 Or they are like darknesses within an unfathomable sea WHICH IS COVERED BY WAVES, UPON WHICH ARE WAVES, over which are clouds, darknesses, some of them upon others. When one puts out his hand, he can hardly see it. And to whom GOD has not granted light, for him there is no light.
Here, and after you read this verse you will jump to a conclusion, that there is nothing important in what it brings, because you do not know the truth.
So, I am going to ask you a VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION, and here it is;
“DO YOU THINK THAT IN THE DEEP SEAS THERE ARE WAVES {and I mean waves only} UNDER THE WAVES THAT WE SEE AT THE SURFACE ?”
A simple question which need only simple answer “YES’ or “NO”. After that I will bring to you the scientific facts, and that is if you really wants to talk in scientific way.
Name:The_Seeker •
Date: 04/17/09 19:38
A: Sam,
The following are my comments per paragraph that you wrote:
1- [I can share some of the things that I learned on my quest of the Absolute Truth]
From that, I understand that in your search for the truth you did not depend on your own brain abilities to evaluate and judge things, but you took what was fed to you by the others, and I call that a TOTAL BLINDNESS, which most of the people in all religions and faith system do.
REPLY:
You are absolutely right Sam. I did not depend on my brain alone by way of speculation as the human brain is imperfect and is prone to make mistakes but instead use it in a logical and philosophical way to understand that the human brain is to tiny to comprehend the Supreme Personality of Godhead. To follow others who have seen the Absolute Truth is not TOTAL BLINDNESS as you refer because it took me so many years to study different paths and learn different teachings as well. When you follow something or a person without studying their teachings and conducting your own experiment, that is called TOTAL BLINDNESS.The way I see it you are quoting from the Quran which I also read along with other scriptures I have studied. And from that quote I understand that you are following Mohammad as your teacher, spiritual master or whatever you wanna call it.I bet you will be offended if I tell you that you are just swallowing your own vomit by saying you are in TOTAL BLINDNESS because you are following the Muslim religion. From the many terrorist attacks everything is linked to the Islamic religion for BLINDLY following their religion that if you kill innocent people you go to heaven and have sex with 72 virgins. Do you call that Godly? That’s what your religion is all about? I think you’re the only group of people who is BLINDLY following your religion and promoting killing and terrorism so you can go to heaven and have sex with so many women. Is this the way you use your BRAIN? Or do you have any BRAIN at all??? Now who is in TOTAL BLINDNESS?
2- [I would first like to offer my humble obeisance to my beloved spiritual master]
From that, I understand that you are not a free person, but a slave to your spiritual master which you blindly believe what he knows is the absolute truth. SO, when you said: “my quest of the absolute truth” is no more than an empty words, LOGICALLY SPEAKING.
After that, I do believe that all what you came with from ideas and thought, questions and answers are those OF WHAT YOU LEARN FROM YOUR MASTER.
REPLY:
Nobody is free in this world. This world is a place of DUALITIES. And the greatest duality of all is the Master & Servant relationship. This world is full of dualities and among them are: Heat & Cold, Black & White, Good & Evil, The Cheater and the Cheated, etc... The disciples of Christ follow Jesus as their Master and them being the Servants, why is it so hard for you to understand the Master and Servant Relationship? If you find that hard to accept then it’s up to you to rely on your BRAIN. After all you are just a servant of your senses and the Master is your BRAIN.
3- [If you want the scientific method to be applied to this discussion, I would expect you to do the process accordingly ]
What is SCIENTIFIC ....a concerned with science; according to principles of science...I do really understand that, and always I do my search for the truth by following the two most important things, SCIENCE AND LOGIC. I will not follow MYTHS or SPIRITUAL MASTERS or FALSE STORIES which came from the past, and the dark ages.
REPLY:
How do you know it is a MYTH or FALSE STORIES? You have not even read a single line about it? Is that what you call LOGIC or SCIENCE? Jumping into conclusion without even gathering you data? What are you afraid of when I said “read the Vedic Scriptures”? Are you afraid that when you read it you will find out the truth and realize you have been cheated by your tiny BRAIN for so many years?
4- [You wrote many comments as an answers to my previous questions, and you talked about things that had no scientific values and cannot be accepted logically, and that came after you asked me TO APPLY SCIENTIFIC METHODS in our discussion !!!?.
Here some:
a) “ The passing down of information is carried over by a long line of "disciplic succession" (Parampara in Sanskrit) dating back form the creation starting from God himself.”
My question is “ Are those who passed down the information, and as you say from god himself knows the world which they live in, and knows that the earth is not a flat peace of land, and knows that our earth and the moon orbiting the sun, and the stars are like our sun and that there are billions of galaxies with billions of stars in the sky above them ?, and maybe there are planets like our earth out there.
All those knowledge are the 20th century knowledge, and we come to know these facts by applying the scientific methods, and not the spiritual methods. [Parampara in Sankrit] and Moses and Jesus and Muhammad and no others had any such a knowledge about the world which they live in, so HOW CAN WE TRUST THEIR INFORMATION ? When they talk about the creation and God Himself?.
REPLY:
If I tell you the answer to that question you wouldn’t believe anyway because you just said you have your BRAIN to rely on. If you go to school and study something that you don’t know you approach a teacher and read some text books. What makes you think you are not being cheated by your teacher or the books? If you can conceptualize that then that will answer your own question.
b) “Nobody knows what God is feeling unless you get to know him personally”...”We all came from God and therefore we all have met him”
Here, you talk about God as a person {we all met Him...get to know Him personally}.
My questions:
- If you know Him, and met Him, then you can describe Him, and how He look like and how big is He and you should know where he lives and resides, and if He eats food and drink wine, and if He has a family etc., can you do that ?
REPLY:
A simple question might help you understand what you are asking…..How do we know and describe the greatest people to have walked the face of the earth? The answer is, by the passing down of information, books, schools, teachers, people who have followed their footsteps and from people who have actually met them face to face. The question is, are you willing to learn or you are just challenging to prove that your BRAIN really works?
c)- “if you really have an open mind you should read the Vedic Scriptures and not just jump into conclusions thinking that you know a lot of things and better than anybody else.”
First, I do have an open mind, and it is my own, to judge things in a logical and scientific way, and I am not influenced by a spiritual master [or masters],
REPLY:
If you have an open mind then why don’t you go ahead and read the book and conduct your own experiment? If you say NO, then you just CLOSED your mind. If you trust your BRAIN then you don’t have to worry of getting influenced by any of the lines you read. So what are you afraid of?
Second, I do not jump to conclusions. I read, then I analyze carefully what I read to see if what was written [from old scriptures] can be accepted logically or scientifically or it is just myth stories been written by people who has no knowledge except writing whatever came to their mind from imaginations.
REPLY:
So read the book and not just jump into conclusions. Be a person of your words. If you say “I read, the I analyze carefully what I read…”, then do it. The thing is, you have not read the book yet neither have any idea about the teachings, but then you have already raised you conclusions. It just contradicts what you were saying.
For an example, I WILL BRING YOUR EXAMPLE:
“God took many different colors in the human form. To site an example, Krishna is Black, Rama is Green, Chaitanya is Gold, Baladeva id White, Varaha is Red and many more. The forthcoming incarnation Kali, he will appear as White.”
PLEASE REMEMBER WHAT YOU SAID: “If you want the scientific method to be applied to this discussion”
WOW... GOD WITH MANY COLORS !!!.... So, when you talk and mention God in your post,[according to your belief], do you mean ONE GOD, or MANY GODS?.
About “KALI” , I understand that he is not here yet, but in advance you know his color as white!!!, So, can you tell me where was KALI, and in what form KALI was before his incarnation.
IS WHAT YOU BROUGHT ABOVE AND IN ALL YOUR COMMENTS HAS ANY SCIENTIFIC VALUES AND CAN BE ACCEPTED IN THE TERMS OF LOGIC ?.
REPLY:
Again I will ask you to read the Vedic Scriptures. There’s no point in going back and forth if you don’t have the basic understanding of the Vedic Science. The Vedas doesn’t only cover Spiritual subject matters but Science and Philosophy as well and that has been accepted by many spiritual devotees and scholars in the whole world. It’s a pity you have not read any of this. If you are serious enough to really know the answers to your questions then I suggest you start reading now. I’m not asking you to accept whatever you read in there but let your BRAIN analyze it to see weather it’s making sense or not.
Third, you said: “you should read the Vedic Scriptures”.
I say thanks. And I am not going to read your book [books] or any book , after finding that it is filled with old unlogical and myths stories.
And because your scriptures holds the same information as such as what you been writing in your post, and which holds no more than unlogical and myths stories, I do feel that it is a waste of time for me to read it.
REPLY:
I would also say…WOW!!! Your BRAIN must be so powerful to find out what’s in the book without even reading it. Or maybe you’re just too afraid to find our you have been cheated by your BRAIN for so many years. It’s up to you dude…you’re old enough.
The Quran gave many examples, and one of them about the people who do not believe in HIM [as the one and only God], and in HIS messages:
Q- 24:40 Or they are like darknesses within an unfathomable sea WHICH IS COVERED BY WAVES, UPON WHICH ARE WAVES, over which are clouds, darknesses, some of them upon others. When one puts out his hand, he can hardly see it. And to whom GOD has not granted light, for him there is no light.
Here, and after you read this verse you will jump to a conclusion, that there is nothing important in what it brings, because you do not know the truth.
So, I am going to ask you a VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION, and here it is;
“DO YOU THINK THAT IN THE DEEP SEAS THERE ARE WAVES {and I mean waves only} UNDER THE WAVES THAT WE SEE AT THE SURFACE ?”
A simple question which need only simple answer “YES’ or “NO”. After that I will bring to you the scientific facts, and that is if you really wants to talk in scientific way.
REPLY:
I am also asking you with a simple “YES” or “NO”.
Are you willing to spend some time to read the Vedic Scriptures?
The thing is you are too selfish to let me see what you have and not let you see what the Vedic Scriptures has to offer. It doesn’t make sense at all.
Name:sam •
Date: 04/21/09 17:06
A: Hi The Seeker,
First, you jumped to a conclusion, by saying that I am following Muhammad, because I do not follow people. Muhammad, Jesus, Moses, Buddha, Krishna or the many others, all of them are people who came to this world long time ago, and left messages, and they did not write their teaching by themselves but all what was written was written by their followers.
Second, You said, :“I think you’re the only group of people who is BLINDLY following your religion and promoting killing and terrorism “
Here again, you jumped to a conclusion , because you are fed by the propaganda that the west created, [the Jews and the Christians] these people never ended their attack on the Muslims since the Islam came to this world.
Did You ever read the history?, Did you not read the history of the Christian who killed millions from the native of the America’s, and enslaved millions of Africans, or killed people in India, China, Africa and stole the land and steal its resources, and slave the people, does the teaching of Jesus agree to all that, and what about the Buddhist and Shinto etc., and their wars and killing and destruction, and what about the Hindu who goes for war, and who burry their girls because they cannot afford to put a diary, and the Hindu who kill Muslims because they eat the meat of the caw !!!, are all the bad things they do are forgetting , and what about those who worship RATS or statues made of stone? !!!.
In front of us today and in the 21st century many books from that period when those who wrote the books believed the earth is flat and does not move, and the stars no more than small object that lights in the sky.
There are millions of people [even with a very high education on all sides], who follow each book [their own book], and regarded it as the only true book while it is full of unreal stories, like this one, {God took many different colors in the human form. To site an example, Krishna is Black, Rama is Green, Chaitanya is Gold, Baladeva id White, Varaha is Red and many more. The forthcoming incarnation Kali, he will appear as White.}
but they regards all the other books are false !!!.
That brings us to the first question is, “WHO IS RIGHT AND WHO IS WRONG” ? .
We can find the truth by going to the books and see which one brings knowledge that are logically and scientifically accepted, and by the standard of the 21st century.
So, I did ask you, ““DO YOU THINK THAT IN THE DEEP SEAS THERE ARE WAVES {and I mean waves only} UNDER THE WAVES THAT WE SEE AT THE SURFACE ?”
And you did not answer this simple question. WHY?. Are you afraid from knowing the truth?
It is suppose to answer the question which comes first, then you bring your question after, this the right way in every discussion.
Anyhow, I read a lot about the Buddhist , and I am going to read the Vedic Scriptures too.
Here what I read just a moments ago: “The four Vedas are the ancient most scriptures of India and are considered the pillars of Hinduism. Apart from the religious rituals and philosophic doctrines, they also contain many hidden secret instructions in coded format, which are carefully guarded secrets known only to a few. For example the verses of Sri Rudram (chapter 16 & chapter 18 of Yajur Veda) contain coded instructions for preparing various Ayurvedic medicines.”
I will discuss the four Vedas and other materials with you later on, and that after you answer my question about ‘THE INNER WAVES”.
