Name:vampyrex •
Title: Magdalene or Mariamne? •
Date posted: 02/27/07 13:53
Q: Are there any other sources other than the Acts of Phillip that refer to her as Mariamne?
Name:Abigail •
Date: 02/27/07 18:21
A: Mariamene was Mary Magdalene's real name. Mary Magdalene is just a sort of description, saying that she was from Magdala. Mariamene e Mara is the full name, and Mara means master
Name:DMS •
Date: 02/27/07 19:41
A: I am a genealogist. My take on "The Christ Family" can be found here:
http://www.mismagicshouse.com/gen-ealogy499x/bottom.html#Jesus
Mariamne- was not The Magdalene. When you say Mariamne, you speak of Mary, the mother of Jesus.
Her mother was Olympias (Joanna/Anna); "St. Anne".
Her father was Joseph Ben Elim of Sepphoris; (Heli/Eli/Ellemus/Ailem/Illem/Ulam/Joachim), High Priest; "ho tekton",
grandson of Antipater II, King of Judea; "The Idumaean".
Mariamne IV (Mary), Princess, was with/married to 3 men.
First was with Herod-Archelaus (Zebulun/Zebedee), Ethnarch of Judea.
Second to cousin Antipater III (Gabriel); the union which produced Jesus.
Third to cousin Herod III (Joseph) of Chalcis.
Name:Kurgan •
Date: 03/01/07 18:17
A: I too am curious about this.
The "Acts of Phillip" (which I think is far too late to be a reliable historical witness anyway, but still) says that "Mariamne" is the SISTER of Phillip the Apostle.
No mention of her being the wife of Jesus, or Mary Magdalane.
The site hints that there is some sources that connects the two. WHO wrote that source, what's the title?
I'd like to read these other "source." I'm studying the Church Fathers this semester in grad school as well as non-canonical Christian writings. So please, enlighten us...
How do we know "Mariamne" means "from Magdala"?
The Acts of Phillip doesn't portray her as a "master" more like an apprenticeto Phillip (and in the Gnostic gospels she's like an apprentice to Jesus, not his wife or something, though I should point out that EACH Gnostic gospel picks one disciple to be the "favorite" whether it is Thomas, James, Judas, Peter, or whomever).
Name:drg3750 •
Date: 03/01/07 18:44
A: I am currently reading Alvar Ellegard's book "Jesus -- One Hundred Years Before Christ". On page 250, he writes:
"In 'Eugnostos' and 'Sophia of Jesus Christ', two closely related Nag Hammadi texts, the risen Jesus speaks to his twelve disciples in Galilee. But of the twelve only four are named: Philip, Matthew, Thomas, and Mariamne (presumably Mary Magdalene.)"
Name:bella •
Date: 03/01/07 23:50
A: We do not know that "Mariamne" means "from Magdala", that is not the claim, the claim is that Magdalene means from Magdala while Mariamne is her real name without a reference to where she is from. For all the variants of this Mary name in sacred texts in some shape or form related to Jesus, it is trully impossible to really peg down Mariamne and say this in fact is it. Unlike in these Acts of Phillip, her status is elevated in some Gnostic texts. But Kurgan, you are right on the money that Gnostic texts tend to single one person out and elevate them. For instance, the Gospel of Judas. Although, she is elevated in more than one Gnostic text. I don't think that Sophia or Eugnostos should be looked at as a point of reference as far as identifying aposltes goes. Matthew for instance is the least mentioned on in Gnostic texts, and we're completely forgetting about John - as in Apocryphon of John, which was place 3 times in the NHL as if through this the texts following it should be interpreted.
Name:drg3750 •
Date: 03/02/07 2:42
A: An interesting link:
http://www.awaken-edwoman.com/first_mary.htm-
Name:Lore •
Date: 03/02/07 18:12
A: Here's a few places you might want to visit or join if you're interested in Mary Magdalene:
The oldest and most respected discussion list concerning Mary Magdalene. Margaret Starbird, Ki Longfellow, Joan Norton, Dr. Jim Gardner and other well-known authors post regularly
http://groups.yahoo.com/gro-up/magdalene-list/
Order- of Mary Magdala discussion list
http://groups.yahoo.com/group-/MaryMagdalaOrder/
Goddess- Christian discussion list
http://groups.yahoo.com/gro-up/goddesschristians/
Th-e- goddess-Christian oriented Esoteric Mystery School
http://www.northernway.org/school.html
Name:Lore •
Date: 03/03/07 15:20
A: Kurgan asked: "How do we know "Mariamne" means "from Magdala"?"
It doesn't. Mariamne means "Mary." "Mara" (the title part of her ossuary inscription) means "Master." So the inscription means "Mary, the Master." This is quite an astounding inscription for a woman in that era, whether or not it is Mary Magdalene. It designates her as a spiritual leader.
Yeshua was a feminist. Some have called him the ultimate feminist. His entire ministry rested on the shoulders of women and their support. He, in turn, supported their equality with men. This was a radical stance, even more radical than his opposing Rome or the Jewish leaders. This struck at the very roots of Jewish culture where women were not to be seen in public, had no status in the patriarchal family and had little power of their own.
Various texts and teaching give Mary Magdalene great stature in His life and mission. She is termed "The Woman Who Knew the All," "Apostle to the Apostles," and was recognized (in gnostic scripture) as the person He designated to lead after Him.
She is credited with miraculous works in the legend concerning her meeting with Tiberius. Tiberius said, "a man can no more raise from the dead than that egg in your hand turn red." She held the egg up and it turned red.
It used to be thought that Magdala referred to her birthplace, but that notion has been abandoned because there is no record of a town by that name existing during her lifetime. Margaret Starbird has made a good case for its meaning as "The Tower," referring to her status in the spiritual community. Margaret also makes a good case for sacred union (heiros gamos) as part of their rituals.
If you want to learn more about Mary Magdalene, read the books by Margaret Starbird (she has several. You might want to start with "Goddess in the Gospels."), Susan Haskins, and Karen King. They each have a different focus and each is well-researched and document
Name:lady andromeda •
Date: 03/06/07 7:24
A: "These are the heads of very numerous discourses which (the Naasene) asserts James the brother of the Lord handed down to Mariamne" The Refutation of all Heresies by Hippolytus (Book V section 2)
Name:Jack D Viau •
Date: 03/07/07 4:17
A: DMS, you are totally lost.....
Name:Jack D Viau •
Date: 03/07/07 4:18
A: LORE, Very good...
Name:KRS •
Date: 03/07/07 9:17
A: Supposition aside, not really. (Isn't the inscription Mara in doubt as to what is actually present as well? I know at least a few people are indicating its a diminutive of Martha and that the citation was mis-read on the film). One difficulty in any work on Mary Magdalene is that the early Church fathers seem to keep confusing her with other people, so her history tends to get dimmed a bit, and the NT doesn't provide much material.
Name:chemba •
Date: 03/09/07 10:33
A: ‘Mariamme’ means Mari plus Amma, and ‘amma’ means mother. It is from “Hindu’ belief. Mari means ‘rain’, from an ancient ‘Tamil literature’, - India. In Tamil nadu (Chennai), one of the states of India, there are thousands of temples and routine festivals for ‘Mariamme’. Rain is most important things for drinking water and irrigation. So “Mariamme” means ‘the Goddess of Rain’ or ‘Mother of Rain. No rain, no life. So we can literally say that our mother is ‘Rain’. For producing the procreation, a father is needed.. Who is our Father? Father is ‘Sun’. Our life is in air. We are in air and air is in us. For producing the air, there must be a link between our Father and mother – water and sun.
For more details you can visit, , http://understanding-the-life.blogspot.com/ and many sub titles in it.
Name:rcrowell •
Date: 03/11/07 23:02
A: JFT website - "In the Acts of Philip, Philip is believed to be one of the apostles of Jesus who appears in the New Testament...He is accompanied by Bartholomew...as well as his sister Mariamne, who is identified as Mary Magdalene."
JFT website - "Most scholars agree that her name means “Mary from Magdala.” Magdala was a fishing town on the western shore of the Galilee"
John 1:44 - "Now Philip was of Bethsaida, the city of Andrew and Peter. "
My question, if Mariamne was a sister to the Apostle Philip, shouldn't they be from the same town?
Name:lady andromeda •
Date: 03/13/07 5:45
A: Here are a couple of interesting websites regarding Mariamne:
MIRYAI OR MIRIAMNE, THE GNOSTIC MARY MAGDALENE
http://essenes.-net/subindex9.htm
Also,- websites on John the Baptist, Jesus, and Miryai according to the Mandaeans:
http://www.mandaea-nworld.com/text_john_mead_4.html- (on John)
http://www.mandaeanwo-rld.com/text_john_mead_5.htm-l- (on Miryai)
This material has DEFINITELY put a different spin on the relationships between John the Baptist, Jesus, and Mary for me. I strongly urge people to read this.
Name:lady andromeda •
Date: 03/13/07 5:50
A: PLEASE NOTE- There is no -before net on the URL for the essene website. And no - at the html on the other URLs for the Mandaeans. I don't know WHY they ended up there.?
Name:lady andromeda •
Date: 03/13/07 5:52
A: Nor - in mandaeanworld. I think this website is - happy! lol
Name:Kelly L. Fleming •
Date: 03/18/07 23:29
A: O, Magdalene, ARK OF GLASS by Kelly L. Fleming
O, Magdalene
Sorcerer & Disciple of Christ
Bewitch Us,
for thou KNOWS
How great the Art Magic of Jesus
O, Magdalene
Chosen One among Women and
"Lo, a great Leopard came
out of the wood on a hill,
and ran and cast himself at (your) feet
and spoke with a human voice: (and said)
I Worship You
Servant of Divine Greatness
and Apostle of the Only Begotten
Son of God"
and in that hour in the desert
"leopard and kid rose up their forefeet"
and said
Bless Thee
for taming our Wild Nature
O, Lady Magdalene
let us
"praise thy name for great is they glory"
"Ark of Glass
Full of Light and Fire"
Chosen Among Women
O, Magdalene
Written by Kelly L. Fleming 1/3/07 - inspired by
the Acts of Philip ... here is a link to the text
http://www.gnosis.or-g/library/actpete.htm
I-n- the Acts of Philip, Magdalene is called Mariamne,
almost all the material in the Litany, is from the Acts
of Peter, including the phrases, How Great the Art
Magic of Jesus, Ark of Glass, Full of Light and Fire,
all from this enchanting Apocryphal Text. The phrase
bewitch us, and sorcerer and disciple of Christ were
said about her brother Philip, I applied them to her.
Name:stan •
Date: 03/21/07 4:04
A: I get MARIAMNU OI MARA as the inscription on the Mary Magdalene
ossurary. That would be "of Mariamne the master, no? I so no
basis for the notion suggested by the Israeli historian that this is
MARIA KAI MARA. There is an O and an I after MARIAMNU befpre
MARA.
Note: the final A of MAPA = MARA has a dot under the 'roof' , which
leads me to think that the symbol of the entrance to the tomb is the
lower case Greek letter alpha. Is this a common form for writing
Greek in this region in the first century? The other alphas in the
inscription do not have the dot but look like lambdas. Could it have
a special meaning when the dot is entered in the last alpha of MARA?
If the symbol over the tomb entrance is an alpha, what meaning
could it have? Isn't alpha the symbol for one in Greek? I'm sure
Gnostics would find meaning in that. The Templars may have
misinterpreted it as a triangle.
Could the A over the tomb door mean Arimathea, as in Joseph of
Arimathea who gave his tomb for the burial of Jesus after the
crucifixion?
Just speculations. Any expert opinions?
Name:sam •
Date: 03/26/07 22:35
A: Kurgan,
After reading your post, saying, "I too am curious about this." I come to ask you few questions:
A- are you curious only about the "Mary Magdalene" or about the tomb and all the other names which been found in including the "Son f Jesus Judah"?.
B- You been curious before when the "Gospel of Judas" & the many other discoveries from the dead sea to Nag Hammadi were found?.
D- Did you know, that the shroud of Torin, still protected in that cathedral, even after was found a hoax?.
E- You think that in your opinion here "it is far too late to be a reliable historical witness" is right?. Can then we egnore all the scientific discoveries because we find them late in time?.
F- You said, " No mention of her being the wife of Jesus, or Mary Magdalane.!!!"
The women at that time and specially among Jews, been kept away from men's world, to do their work at home, that is fact, but Jesus gave the women more right, and Mary Magdalene was an example, She was at his side all the time, and she helped Him in spreading His words, and she was loved by Him, and that love can leed to a marriage and a child, and things kept secret because He knew that they might be harmed by His enemies. Jesus born in a Jewish family that believe a man should be married young, that is a fact. Jesus and who left alive from His family took refuge somewhere in that land, and not much known about what happen to them, that is except for Mary Magdalene who traveled to France.There are many conflicting stories out there as everything else!.
Here are some of my findings:
MARY MAGDALENE. 11 matches. in the NT,
Matthew 27
[56] Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children.
[61] And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre.
Matthew 28
[1] In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
Mark 15
[40] There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;
[47] And Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses beheld where he was laid.
Mark 16
[1] And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
[9] Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
Luke 24
[10] It was Mary Magdalene, and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles.
John 19
[25] Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
John 20
[1] The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
[18] Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.
In the four gospels MARY MAGDALENE name were repeated 11 times
Her name first....................followed by the others
In Matthew:(27:56) 1- Mary Magdalene.. Mary the mother of James & Jose....
(27:61) 2- Mary Magdalene .............the other Mary.
(28:1 ) 3- Mary Magdalene .............the other Mary.
In Mark: (15:40)4- Mary Magdalen .....Mary the mother of James....
(15:47)5- Mary Magdalene ..............Mary the mother of Joses....
(16: 1)6- Mary Magdalene ............Mary the mother of James...
(16: 9)7- Mary Magdalene (When Jesus was risen, He appeared FIRST to Mary Magdalene).
In Luke: (24:10)8- Mary Magdalene ..........and Joanna, and the mother of James...
In John: (19:25)9- Jesus mother, and her sister, and.....Mary Magdalene.
(20: 1)10- Mary Magdalene ( She was THE FIRST to see the stone taken away).
(20:18)11- Mary Magdalene .....(She was THE FIRST who told the disciples, that she had seen the lord.)
.(20:18)11- Mary Magdalene .....(She was THE FIRST who told the disciples, that she had seen the lord.)
Mary Magdalene’ name came (7 times) before the other women names,
Mary Magdalene’ name came (3 TIMES) FIRST, AND THE ONLY ONE.
Only once (1 time) Her name came after Mary the mother of Jesus and her sister.
Going back to the gospel of John 19:25, "Therefore THE SOLDIERS did these things. BUT STANDING BY THE CROSS of Jesus were HIS MOTHER, and HIS MOTHER’S SISTER, MARY THE WIFE OF CLOPAS, and MARY MAGDALENE."
19:26 - "When Jesus, then saw His mother, and the disciple (one disciple) WHOM HE LOVED ( Mary Magdalene) standing nearby, He said to His mother, "Woman, behold, your son!"...19:27- "Then He said to the disciple (Mary Magdalene), behold, your mother!". From that hour the disciple (Mary Magdalene) took Her (Jesus mother) into HIS OWN HOUSEHOLD (Jesus own household).
From all what we read above, some questions will arise:
A- Why Mary Magdalene name has to come before Mary Jesus mother, and many times?.
B- Why She was the first and the only woman to visit the site where Jesus buried?.
C- Why Jesus appear to Her before the others, even His own mother?.
D- Why She was the one that Jesus chose to give His message to the others?.
The answer for these questions will come from John own words when he Said, "THE DISCIPLE WHOM HE LOVED", from all the women who been standing around Jesus at that moment, there is only one woman whom can be called a disciple and she was always with Him, and that woman is Mary Magdalene.
And Jesus asking the disciple (Mary Magdalene) to look after His mother "your mother",(her mother in-law). And the disciple took her to Jesus OWN HOUSEHOLD(which include His wife and son) which is the same place that the disciple live in.
Jesus asked His mother to look after, "your son"* !, and the question here, "WHO IS THE SON?, is it Jesus?, and He is on the cross facing death, and she cannot do anything for Him, or any of His brothers, those are grown up men who live in their own households, and they can care for themselves.
"BEHOLD, YOUR SON"... "BEHOLD, YOUR MOTHER". The disciple is not the daughter of His mother, and the son cannot be one of His many brothers.
* Jesus understand well, that if He mentioned the son as His son, that He will be putting the life of His child at risk, because the place around Him is filled with SOLDIERS and the people who hated Him and wanted Him to be crucified.
"THE DISCIPLE (MARY MAGDALENE) TOOK HER". And since Mary, Jesus mother is going to live in Jesus own household with (Mary Magdalene) the disciple whom Her son loved, there is only one person in that household who need to be looked after, and that is "THE SON", and of course the son here is her grandson, JESUS’ SON, the child who needs the care of his grandmother.
Jesus started His ministry at the age of thirty, and He met with Mary Magdalene sometimes after that, and He was on the cross at age of thirty three, so from that we can say the child (the son) is about the age of two years, and His mother, the disciple, is an active disciple preaching and teaching people, and Jesus knows this fact, so He asked His mother to move in to take care of the child, His son.
Kugan, you said that you will be doing a semester "studying the Church Fathers." !!!.
Are those the one who came after Jesus and the father's in the holy land, and control the churches from Rome the sins land?, are those your fathers who burned the Gospels of Mary , Barnabas, and the Gospel of the holy twelve, and many others?, are those who killed millions of Christians, ? are those who work with the Roman Emperors to create the "Trinity", and changed the teaching of Jesus forever?. Did you ever read the dark history of your fathers in Rome, the popes & bishops?,
My advice to you is - first you study and understand the words of Jesus and follow Him, before you study the fathers and their father Paul. And you should not use the personal letters of Paul and his students to undrstand Jesus and His teaching, because the main source and the biginning and the end is what Jesus said and not what Paul claims.
Do you agree ?.
I think Christians are lost between the "CONONICAL & NON-CANONICAL WRITINGS", that is a fact.
Retired Bishop John S. Spong wrote, "THE GOSPELS CANNOT BE TRUSTED TO BE RELIABLE", !!! That is a fact.
I hope you are enlightened, by the works of Sam?.
Name:Kelly L. Fleming •
Date: 03/28/07 20:33
A: Dear Sam -
The answer to your question is yes. I do think that the bible is cobbled together by scribes and monks and does not represent the "words of god", but the thoughts of Paul, Peter and various others scribes, monks, etc., who wanted to make changes for the "better". I care little of what "sheep" believe, I want to know. Anyone is free to start picking up books and alternative texts and reading.
I think the Gnostic texts are more pure.
In the text the Acts of Peter - a little tidbit about Peter, that shows
more about how he felt about women.
Peter was "curing" people from sickness and was asked by someone in the crowd, Why don't you cure your own daughter who is a cripple? Peter said, Because of her beauty she would lead many men astray, so I will not cure her. Then the crowd did not believe that he could cure her, so he commanded his daughter, a cripple to arise from her bed. Peter's beautiful daughter rose up and walked to the amazement of the crowd. Then Peter condemed her back to sickness, because she was beautiful.
Love + Light
Kelly L. Fleming
Gypsy Goddess
Sacred Alchemy Products
P.S. Why do you tell us the bible is corrupt Sam (which I agree with) and then go on to tediously list all the times Magdalene is mentioned?
]
Name:lady andromeda •
Date: 03/29/07 7:00
A: Sam, There is another mention of MARY MAGDALENE by name in the Gospel of Luke:
Luke 8:2
And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,
Your post was very interesting! [smile]
Name:Kelly L. Fleming •
Date: 03/29/07 17:37
A: Dear Lady A -
Now you have brought up the most interesting and controversial passage on Magdalene. It either makes her a demonic - or sick -
or hints of a connection with the secret magical realms - the 7
ArchAngels. The biggest secret of the Essenes were the names
of the Angels.
Love + Light
Kelly L. Fleming
Gypsy Goddess
Sacred Alchemy Products
Name:lady andromeda •
Date: 03/30/07 3:45
A: Hi Kelly, I personally believe that Mary Magdalene was the *Miryai* in the Mandaean literature. If so, she was SO MUCH more than we currently understand. The Mandaeans view *the 7* as evil. It is a little too complex for me to go into here and now but it is DEFINITELY worth the research.
To understand her veneration by the French, Priory of Sion, and the importance of her *possible* connection to the Merovingian bloodline you simply must read the Mandaean material. I believe the Naassenes were the proto type to the Mandaeans. Their base beliefs are almost identical. John the Baptist is one of THEIR prophets. So is Miryai (Mary Magdalene?) They are at this moment, the oldest surviving Gnostic sect. They ARE however, in danger of becoming extinct! And when they do, I am afraid that alot of secrets will be lost forever. Take care now Kelly.
Name:JMD •
Date: 03/30/07 5:48
A: Stan wrote, Mar21:
"Note: the final A of MAPA = MARA has a dot under the 'roof' , which
leads me to think that the symbol of the entrance to the tomb is the
lower case Greek letter alpha. Is this a common form for writing
Greek in this region in the first century? The other alphas in the
inscription do not have the dot but look like lambdas. Could it have
a special meaning when the dot is entered in the last alpha of MARA?"
If that is a dot there at the end, Stan, it would be quite intriguing! (I can't really tell myself, but, I only looked at the one picture in the book.)
However, it made me think of the beginning -Alpha- at the end? While there are other passages of Scripture this could maybe correspond to, right offhand, it makes me think of the Gospel of Thomas, when the disciples ask Jesus to tell them "how our end will be." (this taken right from my copy of the Nag Hammadi Library; I'll put .. where spaces occur):
Jesus said, "Have you discovered, then, .. the beginning, that you look for .. the end? For where the beginning is, .. there will the end be. Blessed is .. he who will take his place in the beginning; .. he will know the end and will not experience .. death."
Then there's that interesting 'stroke' underneath the inscription - that bold line running right through the last A of MARA - which it seems to? - it 'could' be to sort of highlight this? For emphasis? The beginning is at the end - the bold line/stroke, when viewed this way, seems to almost 'drag' it (or point) -the last A of MARA, alpha, right to the beginning of the inscription?, as that's where the bold line ends (or starts?) as almost a sort of 'clue' to the hidden/esoteric meaning ...?
Well, just some personal thoughts about it. Though I'd never claim to be any kind of expert. Thanks for sharing this Stan. I find it interesting, in any regard.
Name:Kelly L. Fleming •
Date: 03/30/07 16:06
A: Dear Lady A -
I have read the Mandadean texts. I have E.S. Drower's book on the Manadeans of Iraq and Iran. I have studied them extensively. I have been talking about the Acts of Peter and the the Acts of Philip. Which technically aren't even Gnostic texts as they are in the book The Lost Gospels. I had not brought up the Manadean texts. It was you Lady A who brought up the covering up of the shew bread, in the Miryai leave Jewry text of the Manadean literature as a comment on my post on the Collyridians (who are not a Mandaic cult). But let's discuss it now that you have brought it up, since this is what I am currently studying. I just finished E.S. Drower's book the Peacock Angel, which is a study of cults in Syria.
I absolutely believe that Miryai is Magdalene in the Manadean texts. In E.S. Drower's book she quotes the Manadean's as saying, "that Jesus was one of theirs". Meaning JC was a Manadean prophet, so was John the Baptist, so since they wrote about a woman called Miryai, a woman prophet, who read the Torah, and left them to follow JC, it must be Magdalene.
Blessings!
Love + Light
Kelly L. Fleming
Gypsy Goddess
Sacred Alchemy Products
P.S. Yes the Esseni, the Sabians, the Magians and the Mandaeans are all very similiar and sprung from each other.
Name:Kelly L. Fleming •
Date: 03/30/07 16:07
A: THE TITLE MAR IN THE EASTERN CHURCH
Mara is the last 4 letters on the Miriame Ossuary
from the Lost Gospel of Jesus. The title of Mar is
used in the Apostolic Asyrian Church. Which may
be the oldest know Christian Church, dating back to
the time of the apostles, and the Church of the East
sites that their version of the Gospels is the first
version, given to them in the language of Aramaic.
Aramaic and Syria can be viewed as interchangeable.
This version of the bible has been translated - it
is called the Peshitta Bible. Here is a description
of a “Mar”.
“Mar Dinkha IV
Catholicos Patriarch of the Holy Apostolic Catholic Assyrian Church of the East His Holiness was born on September 15, 1935, in the province of Arbela, Assyria. He is the fourth in the line of succession to the Bishopric See of Urmia bearing the sanctimonious title of Mar Dinkha.”
Obviously, what I am getting at is that
the title Mara on Mirame’s Ossuary is designating her
as a Mar, which seems to be the equivalent of a Bishop.
I am still looking into exactly what the Mar title means
in the Eastern Religion. The A on the end of Mar, just
making the title feminine.
If Mar means “Master”, then there are two ways to view
the title. Master and Slave, and Master/Teacher and Apprentice/Student.
Mirame - Master - therefore Teacher.
Blessings!
Love + Light
Kelly L. Fleming
Gypsy Goddess
Sacred Alchemy Products
Name:Kelly L. Fleming •
Date: 03/30/07 16:09
A: The current Q - is are there any other sources other that the Acts of Philip that refer to her as Mariamne?
She is called Mariamne in Hyppolitus Refutation of All Heresies - which dates 230! In this text is says that Jesus’s ministry was passed down to James, the Lord’s Brother through Mariamne.
Sincerely,
Kelly L. Fleming
Gypsy Goddess
Sacred Alchemy Products
Name:lady andromeda •
Date: 03/31/07 4:30
A: Kelly, I don't understand? Was there a problem with me bringing up the Mandaeans? I was merely making a *possible* connection between Mary Magdalene and Miryai.
At present I am gathering material to put in a book on early Gnosticism including the Naassenes who might have been an early proto type to the Elkasaites/Ebionites/Essenes/and Mandaeans. I am also trying to make a connection between the Mandaeans and the Tribe of Dan.
I had already posted an answer to the question on this forum regarding the name Mariamne in the Refutation of all Heresies by Hippolytus Book V section 2. That is the only other reference that I have come across.
Take care now.
Name:lady andromeda •
Date: 03/31/07 4:41
A: Kelly, I just re-read your post on the Mandaeans and Jesus *being one of theirs*. In the beginning he was one of theirs BUT you must have also read how they felt about him later. I do not believe that Miryai followed JC as that would not have set well with the Mandaeans. She was considered *the perfect one* and Life's Treasure by the Anush Uthra in the Book of Yahya or John in the Mandaean literature.
Check out some Mandaean websites and forums.
Name:Kelly L. Fleming •
Date: 03/31/07 14:24
A: Dear Lady A -
Yes, the Mandai ended up calling JC the Deceiver. E.S. Drower says in her book it is because he shortened their rituals and they believed that this was a deception, as the Mandai's believed that deviation from their lengthy rituals made them "void". Although JC was originally a Mandai, Miryai was a Jew, she left the Jews to join the Mandai's. Then left the Mandai's to follow "the man with the headband" (which is JC).
I know all the materials that are available on line about the Mandai's. Have you read the text Nebuchadnezzar's Daughter? This is the text that explains how Miryai learned the secret Mandai materials and how she bacame "one of them".
If John was a Mandai, and JC was a Mandai - who then do you think Miryai - the perfect one is? Who could it be other than Magdalene. If MM was JC's wife - what would be the big scandal that needs covered up? How about MM was more important that JC or John? That she was a living incarnation of Manda d Hiia? Their "Breath of Life" which is the Holy Spirit - an incarnation of the Goddess.
Blessings!
Love + Light
Kelly L. Fleming
Gypsy Goddess
Sacred Alchemy Products
P.S. Ahh, Lady A you are writing a book, copies of my book Mary Magdalene and the Gnostic Book of Numbers are available on ebay at a discount for a limited time. I am working on a second book on MM and Christian Gnostic Magic.
Name:sam •
Date: 03/31/07 14:33
A: Kelly L. Fleming, that is what you mentioned in your post :
"I AM STILL LOOKING into exactly what the Mar title means in the Eastern Religion. The A on the end of Mar, just making the title feminine."
Jesus said "SEEK, AND YOU SHALL FIND". 100% TRUE.
The title "MAR" is still used today by millions . In LEBANON and aroud the world, by the Christian "MARONITE", (Maronites (Arabic: المو-75;رنة,- transliteration: Mawārinah) are Eastern Catholics. Their heritage reaches back to Maroun in the early 5th century. The first Maronite patriarch, "JOHN MAROUN", was appointed in the late 7th century. Today, they are one of the principal religious groups in Lebanon. Maronites were originally ARAMAIC-speaking people).
JOHN MAROUN is called "MAR-MAROUN", and there are few MARS beside him: Mar Elias, Mar Challita, Mar Michael(Mar Mekhael) etc.
The Maronites call John Maroun " AL-QIDDIS (The saint) MAR MAROUN", SO "MAR" IN NOT A SAINT, BUT A TITLE WHICH MIGHT REPRESENT SOMETHING LIKE "LORD".
MAR is a title given to man (male), but when "A" is added as "MAR-A" then the tilte is for a woman(female).
ARA-MAIC....ARA-BIC...HEBREW, ALL DERIVED FROM ONE BRANCH:
(ARAMAIC is one of the SEMETIC languages, an important group of languages known almost from the beginning of human history and including also ARABIC, Hebrew.)
Those three branches came from one, and still have some connection, many words are similar in hebrew and arabic, everyone knows (SALAM & SHALOM). I know nothing about the Aramaic, but there must be some similarity too.
In arabic adding "A" or "AH" to a name to differentiate between male & female, for example "JAR" male neighbour, became a female neighbour when "A or AH" is added, '"JARA OR JARAH" .
MAR the title for man becomes MARA as a title for woman.
I hope my findings is the answer to your question, "The A on the end of Mar, just making the title feminine".
God bless you, Kelly.
Name:sam •
Date: 03/31/07 18:33
A: Lady Andromeda, You mentioned this:
"There is another mention of MARY MAGDALENE by name in the Gospel of Luke: Luke 8:2 , And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went SEVEN DEVILS."
Matthew 4:1-11 (please read it all carefully), it tells the story of the Devil who tempted Jesus, by : 1-" had Him stand on the pinnacle of the temple", 2- "took Him to a very high mountain", 3- "showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory." all that happen after Jesus was led by the SPIRIT!!!, and it Happen after fourty days and fourty nights IN THE WILDERNESS!!!.
I would like to ask you few simple questions:
A- When Jesus stayed fourty days/nights in the wilderness, He was alone, or joined by others?
B- When the Devil had Him stand on the pinnacle of the temple and on top of a high mountain, did anyone was there beside Jesus and the Devil?
C- If you believe in Jesus as GOD or SON OF GOD,and He is the creator who created everything, the Angels and the Devils, and man etc., then He suppose to know His kingdoms. Telling such a story makes Him less than a God, and make the Devil in charge!!!. What you think?
D- The story been written word by word, and all the conversation between the Devil and Jesus is recorded!!!, how can that be?
E- The story started by "Then Jesus was led up", and it did not say that "JESUS SAID" or "WAS TOLD BY JESUS". So, for sure this STORY is not from Him. So, who is the one who made up the story, sure wasn't Jesus, and that leave us with only one, the other one who was with Him, and that is the Devil himself, You agree with me?.
DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE GOSPELS ARE THE WORD OF GOD, OR ONLY JUSES WORDS IN THE GOSPELS ARE FROM GOD?
"The word which you hear is NOT MINE, BUT THE FATHER'S WHO SENT ME".
That will bring the others questions: (before that let bring the words of Jesus: "FOR BY YOUR WORDS YOU WILL BE JUSTIFIED, AND BY YOUR WORDS YOU WILL BE CONDEMNED." 100% TRUE.
"Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went SEVEN DEVILS."
A- Seven Devil exactly!!!, why not three or ten?. you think one Devil is not enough?
B- Did Jesus tell this story?.
C- Did anyone saw a Devil ?, or can anyone see the Devil and say what the Devil looks like?.
D- If Jesus did not tell this story, then who did?, can the Devil be the one?
E- Do you think that "FOR BY YOUR WORDS YOU WILL BE JUSTIFIED, AND BY YOUR WORDS YOU WILL BE CONDEMNED." can be said about those people who created such stories?.
God provided us with brain that should differentiate between the right and wrong and between the true and the false, and the LOGIC is an instrument that should be used in many cases, specially when things is not clear, and Logic is a science which has its laws, and people who did not aquire those laws they might fall victim to many things, LIKE THOSE TWO STORIES HERE. for an example ABOUT HOW THE LOGIC WORKS:
when law makers bring a new law, they should make sure that this law will not contradict with other laws.
They cannot bring a law which says "smoking is allowed in bars" after the law which came before say, "it is totally forbidden to moke in public places". And bars are public places as restaurants and theatres etc.
And when I read what the former catholic NUN Mary Ann Collins wrote: "in Unmasking Catholicism”
“Forbidden PEOPLE to interpret the bible for themselves.”.......“ The interpretation left to the popes, bishops...".
Here we find "PEOPLE" and then "popes & bishops" as if they are not PEOPLE like the others, and that Logically wrong.
Black cannot be white, the truth is not the same as the false, and the son of man cannot be the son of God at the same time, and man cannot be God (as man-God), because that will make (God- man) like us logically possible, and that cannot be true, otherwise the words of Jesus will be false when He said, "God whom you do not know", "HE WHO IS IN HEAVEN", "THE ONE AND ONLY GOD".
I believe in Jesus and in His words, His words tells us the truth and can be accepted Logically, but anything that might be said by the others which might have any doubt in it , or cannot be accepted logically is just false words. Those who made it and those who preach it and those who accept it are all responsible, specially when it says wrong things about God, the Holy Spirit:
"WHOEVER SPEAKS A WORD AGAINST THE SON OF MAN (JESUS), IT SHALL BE FORGIVEN HIM; BUT WHOEVER SPEAKS AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT (GOD), IT SHALL NOT BE FORGIVEN HIM..."
So, when Jesus says "You call me TEACHER AND LORD; and you are right, for SO I AM"...."When you lift up THE SON OF MAN (Jesus), then YOU WILL KNOW THAT I AM HE."...."no one is good except GOD ALONE"...."The lord OUR GOD IS ONE lord".
After Jesus says all that , then someone say that Jesus is the son of God, and then others say that Jesus is God, then we find ourselves confused, and the main question here who we trust?, Jesus the one whom we are following or the others?, CAN WE BLINDLY follow those who never been with Him or heard His words?. do we really know the consequences of following the wrong teachings:
"A BLIND MAN CANNOT QUIDE A BLIND MAN, CAN HE? WILL THEY BOTH FALL INTO A PIT?"
Lady, can you tell me what is the pit?, is it a hole in the ground here on earth, or is it the "HELL" that Jesus came to worn us about it, if we do not follow Him and follow the commandments of God?.
Lady Andromeda, You think we can use the LOGIC here to find out THE TRUTH?.
God bless you.
Name:lady andromeda •
Date: 04/01/07 0:00
A: Kelly, In the Book of John 30 (Lid. text: 103-8; transl.: 103-8)
"Jesus went to the bank of the Jordan and spoke to him: "John, baptize me with your baptism and utter over me the Name that you take care of pronouncing. If I show myself to be your true disciple, I will remember you in my written word; if I do not make a good showing as your disciple, cancel my name from your sheet."
John answered Jesus (Isu Msiha) in Jerusalem: "You have lied to the Jews and deceived the priests. The seed you have separated from men and the labor and the pregnancy from women. The Sabbath, that Moses tied, you ;unknotted in Jesusalem. You have deceived them with horns and have extended opprobrium (Christianity) with the shofar."
From THE MANDAEANS the last Gnostics by EDMONDO LUPIERI.
Of course, later John does indeed baptise Jesus but the Mandaeans REALLY do not like Jesus. Even in the Gospel in the Bible you can pick out the verses related to John the Baptist and tell that there was something amiss between Jesus and John.
I don't believe that *the man with the headband * was JC. Miryai actually was referred to as becoming the SIMIAT HIIA- Treasure of Life- an Utra.
The Anush Utra took a bodily form and came to Jerusalem to find Iaqip (Jacob or James) and Bnia Amin and Miryai, the perfect one, who is generations and worlds dear to him.
The Anush Utra : "I spoke with my voice and preached and became a doctor for Miryai... I guided Miryai down and baptized her in the Jordan and marked her with a pure mark".
"Just as Anus Utra arrived on the scene to STOP Jesus' work, likewise the 360 prophets, with their "testimony", hold back the influence of the Twelve."
GE 2.1151-53 (Pet. 57; Lid. 51)
152. And when John lives, in that time of Jerusalem, and takes the Jordan and performs baptism, Jesus comes, goes in humility, is ;baptized in the baptism of John and through the wisdom of John becomes full of knowledge. Then he distorts the words of John and modifies the baptism of the Jordan and distorts the speeches of kusta and preaches crime and deception in the world.
This *might* explain the Templars attitude. After 20 years of studying this whole Mary Magdalene/Jesus relationship, I do not believe they were married/lovers. I just REALLY don't see it. I wanted to but just could not see it. I actually hope someone can prove it was true. Maybe, Maybe not. Take care now Kelly.
Name:lady andromeda •
Date: 04/01/07 3:49
A: Hey Sam, You know, I have lived on this planet for a very long time and I have sought and studied many religions in that time but I have FINALLY come to believe the adage:
"There is NO religion greater than TRUTH".
GOD BLESS YOU SAM! And keep seeking your TRUTH. [smile]
Name:Kelly L. Fleming •
Date: 04/01/07 16:21
A: Dear Lady A -
Yes, I am aware that the Manadean's called JC the deceiver. He shortened their rituals and refused to get married. All Manadean
priests are married. My earlier explanation to you was just that
he shortened their rituals. I did not want to get into a marriage argument, as I believe he was not married, and I have been studying MM and JC for over a decade now, and have never found a shread of proof that they were husband and wife.
I in a previous post I was surprised when you posted about the Mandaeans and referenced it to me, as I had not mentioned them on this group page. You asked if their was a problem in bringing them up. My problem is, if you are writing a book on MM, then you are most likely a participant of the Magdalene-list, hence this is how you know that I am studying the Mandeans. Which means Lady A - that you know me, and since you are not using your actual name, it makes me wonder who you are. Why don't you use your name? Why a pen name? Probably because you are someone who CAN'T use their name or let us know who they really are - like author KM or LB, Olivia, etc. So my problem with you referencing me on the Manadeans is - Ok, WHO ARE YOU? I can tell you exactly where to look to find the lost tribe info, but the politics of "Magdalene writers and boards" is an under-belly and there are many that I would not want to assist.
Sincerely,
Kelly L. Fleming
Gypsy Goddess
Sacred Alchemy Products
Name:sam •
Date: 04/01/07 20:16
A: Lady Andromeda.
Yoy mentioned this:
A- "You know, I have lived on this planet for a very long time"
-------------------------------
You said, "you know", but the TRUTH I don't know anything about you?!.
My questions, 1- how many years you lived on this planet?. 2- How much "physically" did you see from this planet?.
As for me, I am 69 years old, and at 65, I started writing the story about my jouney around the world, which started at early age (15). I lived in 6 countries, and visited 17 others. I drove over million miles in the Middle East, Europe, Australia and north America (US/CA). I been over the Pacific, Atlantic and the Indian and over the Mediteranian, the Red, the Black , and the North seas.
B- " and I have sought and studied many religions in that time but I have FINALLY come to believe the adage."
"There is NO religion greater than TRUTH".
--------------------------------
From my early age, I was interested in history, goegraphy and science. Iknew little about the three religions,and then learning from the history all what the religious people done from harm to the religion and to humanity, that kept away from caring much about them. I did make my own belief wich is as follow:
1- If there is creation, then there should be a creator, Looking at myself and at the world around me which hold countless marvells, all those they did not come on earth for nothing.
2- There are billions of repeated cration during millions of years, then came at the end, the most wonderful creation of all, and that is the HUMAN, the only one who is fully developed, and the only one who been given a brain to think, and to have power above all other creations!.
3- knowing a little about religions, but knowing the most important things in all religions, which is the believe in God and believe that He created us and He cares about us, and He sent messages with many messengers to tell us THE TRUTH about Him and He gave us laws to follow for our sake.
Knowing what the religious people done to harm the humanity and create things far beyound what God gave them and far beyond any logic, all that kept me away from them, untill recently when I did find the time to watch and read about the many discoveries and the debates that comes as a result. There are different opinions, who is right and who is wrong?, that is what create in me a sense to go and find the truth. I bought the Quran and the new testament, then i went through the internet to read the bible, even I read about the Buddhism and the Hinduism, and about the sunnui and shiite, the catholic, protestant, mormons and many others. I am spending many long hours every day in reading, and my purpose is not to chose one or another, but to see if the religious people are really following God the creator and His laws, or they are following what they created by themselves.
4- Soon after avery religion came, it turns into a political party in the name of God!, they hate and fight and kill in the name of God!!!, I always wondered if those people understood the message of God? or follow His laws?!.
5- Can we blame God and the religion for what the religious people do?.
------------------------------------
C- "keep seeking your TRUTH"
The truth is the truth, it is not mine or yours. People who are COMMITED to a party (religion/politic) either they have benefits or they are blinded and they try to switch the truth, to make it work in their favor, as they switch the laws for the same reason, that is what happen in the real world.
But to those who are NOT COMMITED looking for the truth is not from a purpose to gain from it, but just to bring the facts, no string attached.
In the first two years of study, I had to study many others, as the sciences of logic, statistic etc., and that help me a lot in my search for the truth, and i presented some in this forums and in the forum that been on for few years in NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC forums about the GOSPEL OF JUDAS.
Name:lady andromeda •
Date: 04/02/07 0:37
A: Dear Kelly, I believe you might just be a little bit paranoid! Here is how our discussion went:
I posted to SAM:
A: Sam, There is another mention of MARY MAGDALENE by name in the Gospel of Luke:
Luke 8:2
And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,
Your post was very interesting! [smile]
You responded to me:
A: Dear Lady A -
Now you have brought up the most interesting and controversial passage on Magdalene. It either makes her a demonic - or sick -
or hints of a connection with the secret magical realms - the 7
ArchAngels. The biggest secret of the Essenes were the names
of the Angels.
Love + Light
Kelly L. Fleming
Gypsy Goddess
Sacred Alchemy Products
I NOW bring up the MANDAEANS to YOU:
A: Hi Kelly, I personally believe that Mary Magdalene was the *Miryai* in the Mandaean literature. If so, she was SO MUCH more than we currently understand. The Mandaeans view *the 7* as evil. It is a little too complex for me to go into here and now but it is DEFINITELY worth the research.
To understand her veneration by the French, Priory of Sion, and the importance of her *possible* connection to the Merovingian bloodline you simply must read the Mandaean material. I believe the Naassenes were the proto type to the Mandaeans. Their base beliefs are almost identical. John the Baptist is one of THEIR prophets. So is Miryai (Mary Magdalene?) They are at this moment, the oldest surviving Gnostic sect. They ARE however, in danger of becoming extinct! And when they do, I am afraid that alot of secrets will be lost forever. Take care now Kelly.
YOU respond to me :
A: Dear Lady A -
I have read the Mandadean texts. I have E.S. Drower's book on the Manadeans of Iraq and Iran. I have studied them extensively. I have been talking about the Acts of Peter and the the Acts of Philip. Which technically aren't even Gnostic texts as they are in the book The Lost Gospels. I had not brought up the Manadean texts. It was you Lady A who brought up the covering up of the shew bread, in the Miryai leave Jewry text of the Manadean literature as a comment on my post on the Collyridians (who are not a Mandaic cult). But let's discuss it now that you have brought it up, since this is what I am currently studying. I just finished E.S. Drower's book the Peacock Angel, which is a study of cults in Syria.
I absolutely believe that Miryai is Magdalene in the Manadean texts. In E.S. Drower's book she quotes the Manadean's as saying, "that Jesus was one of theirs". Meaning JC was a Manadean prophet, so was John the Baptist, so since they wrote about a woman called Miryai, a woman prophet, who read the Torah, and left them to follow JC, it must be Magdalene.
Blessings!
Love + Light
Kelly L. Fleming
Gypsy Goddess
Sacred Alchemy Products
P.S. Yes the Esseni, the Sabians, the Magians and the Mandaeans are all very similiar and sprung from each other.
SO, Kelly do you NOW see! I NEVER referenced YOU on the MANDAEANS. After 30 years of research I do not feel the need to. I DID however, go on to correct your statements regarding the Mandaeans. I supplied literary support for the correction. I am NOT using a pen name. It is a title and I am CERTAINLY entitled to use it. I DO NOT KNOW YOU nor do I care to. This will be my last post to you madam as I have neither the time nor inclination to converse with you. Again, I made no reference to YOUR knowledge of the MANDAEANS. I referred to my own and suggested you research them. In the light of your previous statements regarding them- I STILL suggest you research them. Good day madam and Goodbye!
LADY ANDROMEDA
Name:R. Kirk Kilpatrick •
Date: 04/03/07 14:52
A: Tabor based his connection between the ossuary and M. Magdalene on the work of Bovon who denies the association:
See:
http-://www.uhl.ac/blog/
March- 31, 2007
Prof. Bovon cries foul in the use of his work
Filed under: Uncategorized — drstephenpfann @ 4:56 pm
Disclaimers from Key Experts Used in the “Lost Tomb” Documentary, Part One:
Prof. Bovon: Mariamne is not the Historical Mary Magdalene of the First Century
The filmmakers of “The Lost Tomb of Jesus” and their advisors have asserted Mary Magdalene’s name in the apocryphal Acts of Philip as being “Mariamne” and that this was also the current and accurate name for the actual historical person, Mary Magdalene of the first century. They based this upon the important discovery of Prof. François Bovon of Harvard University, who published a recently discovered copy of the Acts of Philip, the first complete copy to be discovered. However, Prof. Bovon wants to clarify that he did not in any way state that the name “Mariamne” of the Acts of Philip should be the linked to the historical Mary Magdalene of the first century. The Acts of Philip presents the figure “Mariamne,” who both evangelized and baptised, as–geographically improbably–both the sister of Philip of Bethsaida and of Martha of Bethany (and therefore, of Lazarus). Bovon actually proposed that this Mariamne was the same character whose persona in time evolved to become the fictitious Gnostic sage and evangelist, more closely linked to the Mary of Magdala in the Manichean Psalms, the Gospel of Mary, and the Pistis Sofia. Based upon apocryphal stories such as these, which speak of a close relationship between Mary Magdalene and Jesus, and which give a high prominence to her in the early church, the storywriters of “The Lost Tomb of Jesus” have surmised that Jesus and Mary were married and even produced a family. Of these three assumptions—(1) that the name of Mary Magdalene was not Maria or Mariam, as recorded in the Gospels, but rather Mariamne; (2) that the Mariamne of the Acts of Philip is to be identified with Mary Magdalene, though the Acts of Philip never says so explicitly, and (3) that Jesus was married and fathered a child—none is supported by any of the earliest records dealing with these individuals, namely the canonical Gospels and Josephus.
Cf. Bovon’s disclaimer on this issue on the SBL Forum site:
http://www.sbl-site.o-rg/Article.aspx?ArticleId=65-6-
Name:Kelly L. Fleming •
Date: 04/03/07 17:20
A: The book Mary Magdalene by Susan Haskins brilliantly
lays out why MM is referred to as Miriam, Mary, Mariham,
etc. It is just the name Mary rendered in Aramaic, Hebrew,
Greek, etc.
If you read the Gospel of Secret Mark, Mary of Bethany is
the fabrication and Lazarus only has 1 sister, and there is
not a correlations between the anointing sinner and the
sister of Bethany in Secret Mark. Doesn't Dr. Tabor argue
in his book for additions to Mark as well?
Sincerely,
Kelly L. Fleming
P.S. Lady Andromeda - it is always the same people, playing the
same mysterious "identity" games. You protest loudly, yet you
are using a pen name and hiding your identity.
Name:light •
Date: 04/05/07 0:09
A: Bovon didn't do a very good job of disclaiming in my opinion. lol
Name:Nate •
Date: 05/22/07 7:07
A: Mariamne IS THE MADALENE!
If you were to assemble all of the Jewish people of the first century into a single innumerable crowd, and were to call out “How many men here are named Jesus?” one out of every ten male hands would go up. That’s a multitude! If you were to call out, “How many men named Jesus also have a mother named Mary?” the numbers would thin out considerably to a fraction of the original number. Then if you were to call out, “How many men here named Jesus who have a mother named Mary also have a father or step father named Joseph?” the crowd would thin even more to a very tiny fraction of the original number.
If you were then to call out “How many men named Jesus that have a mother named Mary, a father or stepfather named Joseph, also have a wife, sister, aunt, or cousin named Mariamene e Mara?” the number thins out to only one man. Why? Because the name Mariamene e Mara has only been found on this one single ossuary! Out of the many thousands of ossuaries found, the name Mariamene e Mara is found on none other! It is conceivable that such an ossuary still lies buried, but if so it has yet to be found.
To further complicate matters for critics, “Mariamene” only occurs in two places other than on the ossuary found in the tomb of Jesus. “Mariamene” occurs in the Gospel of Phillip--which is early, from the second century--and is applied to Mary Magdalene, as well as to the mother and a sister of Jesus. Here is the verse, verse 36, from the gospel of Philip:
“There were three Mariamenes who walked with the Lord at all times: his mother and sister and [the] Magdalene, this one who is called his companion. Thus his mother and sister and mate is [each named] Mariamene.”
Here we are informed that the mother of Jesus, his sister, and his mate/wife are all called Mariamene, therefore the name Mariamene is definitely connected with Magdalene, as well as his sister. So, the Mariamene ossuary might be the sister of Jesus or it might be his wife, the Magdalene. Which is more likely? Mitochondrial DNA tests of the bone material left in the Jesus and Mariamene ossuaries was tested and the bones are not of people of blood relation. Since they are not genetically related, that rules out a sister or mother or aunt or cousin and narrows it down to the Magdalene as being the Mariamene on the ossuary. She is called the mate of Jesus in the gospel of Philip.
This identification is further strengthened by the long tradition of the Eastern Orthodox Churches, which refer to Mary Magdalene as “Mariamene.” They have done so since the fourth century based on early liturgical textual evidence. Orthodox liturgical texts date back to the very early centuries, to at least as far back as the time of Saint Basil the Great, the early fourth century.
Probably much earlier, based on the Gospel of Phillip evidence.
On her Feast Day, Saint Mary Magdalene is honored in the Orthodox Churches as “Mariamene.” Now that the world is discovering, from the Gnostic Gospels, the place of Headship that Mary Magdalene played in early Christianity as “the apostle to the apostles” it becomes clear why she is called “Mara” or “Master!” Her place of leadership once surpassed that of any of the male apostles!
Some of the opponents of this tomb being the tomb of Jesus stated: “The first use of ‘Mariamene’ for Mary Magdalene dates to a scholar who was born in 185 AD, suggesting that Magdalene wouldn't have been called that at her death.” The “scholar” they’re slyly referring to is the anonymous author of the gospel of Philip! This sort of dishonesty is typical of those committed to an ideology or preconceived notion rather than facts. They oppose the “tomb of Jesus” on ideological grounds rather than evidential grounds, factual grounds. If they are so sure of their position, why be sneaky and dishonest and not simply come right out and admit that they’re referring to the anonymous author of the so-called gospel of Philip? Why be vague and say “a scholar who was born in 185 AD”? Because that would undermine their own position since in other places they throttle the gospel of Philip as “untrustworthy.” The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society engages in this same sort of “lying for the truth.” This same sort of oily two-faced behavior. One can lie by what one omits just as surely as by what one includes.
These opponents, living two millennia removed from the time period of Jesus, are quite sure that “Mariamene e Mara” being applied to Mary Magdalene in 185 AD by the apostle Philip “suggests that Mary Magdalene was not called such at her death.” What nonsense! It doesn’t suggest anything of the sort. That’s circular reasoning and wishful thinking on their part: “We have an ossuary that says ‘Jesus son of Joseph’ and another that says ‘Mariamene e Mara’ but this is not evidence that this is Mary Magdalene because the name ‘Mariamene e Mara’ is not applied to Mary Magdalene until 185 AD.” That is classic circular reasoning. I remind the reader that the Orthodox tradition of assigning this title to Mary Magdalene is possibly even older than 185 AD, based on very ancient liturgical texts.
What these people are purposely hoping you won’t notice is that “Mariamene” IS APPLIED TO NO ONE ELSE ANYWHERE IN ALL OF HISTORY EXCEPT MARY MAGDALENE, THE SISTER OF JESUS, AND HIS MOTHER. Plus, it has been found NOWHERE ELSE except in the gospel of Philip, the ossuary from the Jesus tomb, and in the liturgical texts of the Eastern Orthodox Church that honor Mary Magdalene by this name! So, please excuse me if I find that fact to be impressive evidence that the Mariamene e Mara ossuary is indeed the ossuary of Mary Magdalene when coupled with the mitochondrial DNA evidence. There is no excuse for the dishonest methods of the critics and opponents of this tomb being the tomb of Jesus. Yet that doesn’t cause me to lie and twist evidence and leave out important facts.
There’s no escaping it folks, unless your mind is made up and you‘re simply looking for ways to weasel out of the facts. Finding a first century tomb with ossuaries bearing the names “Jesus son of Joseph” “Maria” and “Mariamene e Mara” lends great weight to the argument that this is indeed the tomb of Jesus Christ
Name:eirini_cy •
Date: 08/07/07 8:06
A: I wouldnt be concerned about Mariamne's ossuary - it is written in modern greek - therefore not from ancient times - its a fake.
Name:eirini_cy •
Date: 08/07/07 8:18
A: @ Stan - yes it does look alot like an ancient greek Alpha - however I do not believe it stands for a one
maybe it has some signifance to the family inside the tomb - maybe they were somehow related to greece or the greek language - Who knows
for more info on the alphabet - the best site in english I could find is:
http://www.ancientsc-ripts.com/greek.html
i-t- could possibly be an Alpha but i cannot say for sure
the only problem is why Mary Magdalenes ossuary has modern greek writing which is very much a mystery and very strange...
Mara in greek is just a nickname for Maria - and if like they say Jose was a nickname for Joseph -therefore Mara may not mean Master at all.
A: Yes, Hippolytus' Refutation of All Heresies, Book V, Ch. II. This is the only other instance of Mariamne (with the nu for n) in Greek texts prior to modern times. "Mariamne" in both Acts of Philip and Hippolytus can be identified with Mary Magdalene.
However, the well-known "Marimne" the Hasmonean princess, who was Herod the Great's 2nd wife -- until he killed her, is a misnomer. The source of this name is Josephus, but in the original Greek of Josephus this name is spelled without the Greek letter nu for n in. It should have been transliterated as Mariame.
So the only (pre-Modern) Greek texts with the name Mariamne (with the nu for n) are the two: Acts of Philip and Hippolytus.
This would suggest that the Mariamne ossuary at Talpiot is indeed that of Mary Magdalene.
A: Yes, check out James Tabor's blog, The Jesus Dynasty for June 1, 2008.
Name:dashinvaine •
Date: 11/12/08 18:49
A: The scholar Steven Pfann dismissed the Magdalene identification, saying that the inscription reads 'Mariam and Mara' rather than 'Mariamne the Master'. Mara is not 'Master' in his opinion, but an abridged form of Martha. Pfann wrote as though this new reading undermines the credibility of the tomb as that of Jesus and his nearest and dearest. I don't see that as the case at all. Catholic tradition long identified Mary the sister of Martha with Mary Magdalene. Acts of Phillip, meanwhile, also attributes Mariamne with a sister called Martha. In that story their brother is Philip. More often Mary and Martha are said to be the sisters of Lazarus (as in John's Gospel chapter 11). This poses the question was Phillip also the brother of Lazarus, or were Lazarus and Phillip one and the same? (I think the author of the Acts of Phillip muddled things up rather. Phillip's death hanging upside down is very similar to the traditional death of St Peter)
Name:iviliamu •
Date: 11/19/08 6:09
A: Mary M is a greek woman as clear in th bible in Mark 7, the mother asked Jesus to cast demon from her young daugther then later Mary M came to thanks Jesus by anonited his body with Mathew and Mark and feet with Luke and John. When Mary M anonited Jesus, the Religions Leaders asked Jesus and Jesus replied in parables and this parables confirmed that Mary M who anonited Jesus is a Greek as Jesus said " 2debtors lend from 1 creditor and unable to pay and 1 creditor forgives the 2debtors". 2 debtors are the mother and daughter and 1 credit is Jesus who healed the daughter". The story in Mark 7 related to the parables in Luke 7. The confirmation of Mary Magdalene as a Greek woman is in Jesus parables.
Name:Mykelbelievs •
Date: 01/29/09 10:06
A: I for one, raised a christian of an open persuasion, was ALWAYS taught that Jesus and Mary Magdalene were married... That the wedding at Caana WAS the marriage of Jesus to Mary, that the ROMAN Church left out the fact, in order to hide his humanity. Also I believe the inscription does NOT mean "Mary the Master", but "Mary and Martha"... because it is a fact that ossuaries often held more then one body, as in the case of Simon of Cyrene who's ossuary was found to also contain his son Alexander. If this is true than the probability of this being the family in question is that much MORE solid.
Name:Brad Watson, Miami •
Date: 06/01/14 15:12
A: 'Simple(6,74) English(7,74) Gematria(8,74)' is the alphanumeric code/cipher using 'the key'(74) of A=1, B=2...Z=26. It exposes much!
Wh-y- the converge(74); why the connect(74) between(74) 7_4 / 74? Google: GOD=7_4 algorithm. Or see my tweaked NASA conference presentation of 4/21/09, "Identifying 'True Earth-like Planets' - All New Worlds Are Built On 7_4 (like Earth) Or 6_4" at http://PlanetNestor.blogspot.com
