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Name: DMS •
Title: Merovingian Dynasty •
Date posted: 02/27/07 23:30
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Q: Jesus can be placed into the Merovingian Dynasty
through Anna (dau. of Joseph of Arimathea) who married
Brān (Bron) "The Blessed," "The Arch-Druid" of Siluria.
I am a genealogist. My take on "The Christ Family" can be found here:
http://www.mismagicshouse.com/genealogy499x/bottom.html#Jesus
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Name: Alexandra •
Date: 02/28/07 4:12 |
A: Actually, I have a document, The Trojan Origins of British Royalty.
Judah and Tamar had twin sons. King David (and Jesus) is descended from one twin, the royals from the OTHER twin, according to this!
No one is descended from Jesus.
(I'm into genealogy myself.)
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Name: Xare •
Date: 02/28/07 5:18 |
A: THE FAMILY - THE ORDER
"They" have always claimed they are the bloodline of christ, the merovingian line.
So lets not tip toe around the subject anymore.
Are the Family trying to reveal themselves to the world ?
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Name: Mark-Tao •
Date: 02/28/07 17:45 |
A: So many agendas, so little time. Ah, but eternity is the promise of religion. An eternity is what's needed for all these little agendas. Let us make a religion of our agendas, and eternity will our promise of hope.
I have no document or web address for you to visit. Just a funny thought about all the agendas that this subjest brings out of the wood work.
LOL
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Name: lady andromeda •
Date: 03/07/07 0:12 |
A: Alexandra, While you are correct concerning the ancient Merovingian bloodline *possibly* extending back to Trojan origens, Merovech's grandfather (Pharamond) was son of a Merovingian father and a Desposyni (Holy Kin) mother. That Desposynic bloodline extended back about 8 generation to include The Original Holy Family.
Merovech
Clodion Le Chevelu
Pharamond
Marcomir+Frotmund
Boaz ben Frimutel
Titurel
Manael
Cathaloys
Aminadab
Joshua
Joseph ben Yeshu (JESUS)
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Name: hbic3 •
Date: 03/09/07 13:53 |
A: He COULD be, however, it depends on which genealogy you are using from the Gospels. They differ, you know.
Plus, as a genealogist, you should know that if you cannot verify the information you are to leave it out of your tree. Inputing unverified information into your tree, at least without noting that it is unverified, is an absolute No-No in genealogy. Since no verifiable records exist from that day, other than the two gospels that list Jesus' genealogy and differ from one another, you must leave it out.
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Name: lady andromeda •
Date: 03/10/07 4:31 |
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A: hbic3, The Merovingian bloodline has been *somewhat* documented by the likes of THE HOLY ROMAN EMPEROR CHARLEMAGNE and NAPOLEAN. The church, rulers, and authorities KNEW who the desposyni were and recorded them. They had monks, scribes and historians of the day research this bloodline for their own personal inclusions. For the Holy Bible to be able to state Jesus' genealogy tells us that it CAN be done even in early Biblical times. It's just that we have to avail ourselves of different documents and evidence to support it. So, the bloodline that I listed was believed to have been used by Napolean to support his connection to that bloodline. I just listed it to show that this is where the IDEA of descendency from the desposyni comes from. I descend from 3 Merovingian lines but I could care less about the *possible* connection to the Desposyni or Holy Kin. I am far more interested in my *possible* connection to Trojan Origins. Take care now.
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Name: hbic3 •
Date: 03/10/07 13:43 |
A: I'm not arguing with you the possibility. All I am saying is, becarful of your sources and make sure they agree with each other and anything you cannot verify, you must, at the very least, notate that they can't be verfied.
For one, the Gospels do NOT agree on Jesus ancestors. For two, the Desposyni refers to Jesus, Mary, Joseph, John the Baptist, Jesus brothers and sisters, ONLY, and NO ONE ELSE! It does not refer to any descendants, real or imagined, or any other relatives, named or unnamed. Don't confuse it. Again, check and recheck your sources, VERIFY them.
By the way, "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" is not a credible source since the "proof" of a Holy Blood line rested, for the most part, if not entirely, on the Dossier Secrets papers, which were, In FACT, admitted to be authored and complete fiction by Pierre Plantard in 1993.
Again, check your sources. That is not now, nor has there ever been any verified connection, blood or otherwise, between Jesus and the Merovingian dynasty.
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Name: Panluna •
Date: 03/11/07 1:23 |
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A: I looked all through history books and websites and the only link I came up with and this is theory only:Mary Magdelene's daughter Sarah could have married into the royal bloodlines of first century Franks,Gauls or who ever was the ancestors of the Merovingians.Some how I could not find a geneology starting from the first century to the fifth.Any sources you would like to share with me?
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Name: Ouroboros •
Date: 03/11/07 2:56 |
A: C'mon. This is getting plain stupid.
Please. The family clan who lead the early Franks claimed they were descendant from sea gods. Its nothing but propaganda to seem important. It was done all the time.
The idea that the davinci code is anything but fiction is insane. I am embarrassed for you.
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Name: lady andromeda •
Date: 03/11/07 3:46 |
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A: hbic3, I HAVE verified these sources. As I said, you can find this info if you research THE HOLY ROMAN EMPEROR CHARLEMAGNE. The church felt it important enough that they did the research for us in his lifetime. This info has nothing to do with The Holy Blood Holy Grail thing. Do NOT confuse the issue at hand. Also, hun I do understand what the Desposyni is and those that descend from it. You need to do your research. Even the founding Church fathers knew that the *possible* brothers and sisters of The Lord had progeny. It is evident in certain historical Church records. I trust THE CHURCH to have verified this info. The Desposyni and their DESCENDANTS gave testimony to their heritage and it was admitted into record. You see- first we had Desposyni and then followed descendants. I am very clear on that aspect. So, to recap, I am relying on The Church research for H.R.E. CHARLEMAGNE and NAPOLEAN's research for his own inclusion into the Merovingian line, monks, scribes, royal documents, and history in general. I cannot imagine basing this genealogical bloodline on anything as absurd as that book Holy Blood, Holy Grail! Could you?
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Name: lady andromeda •
Date: 03/11/07 3:55 |
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A: Ouroborus, (nice name by the way) You needn't be embarrassed for me as I said I could care less to prove the Merovingians descend from Jesus and whoever. That issue to me is INSANE! I am not even sure I believe he existed! SSSSOOO- To prove a bloodline connection to them, to me, is irrelevant. I merely stated what is RAMPANT out there all over the internet! Anyone with half a brain could find it for themselves. I have said that I am ONLY concerned with proving the bloodline back to Trojan origins. Sorry! I like Mary Magdalene alright but I do not believe she was married to or lover to Jesus. How strange you so called Christians would argue that point with me! Granted, my reasons for disbelieving that theory is quite different from yours but our end goal is the same. Funny huh?
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Name: lady andromeda •
Date: 03/11/07 4:11 |
A: Your turn Panaluna, (also nice name), It is OUT THERE! Did you see the info that I listed on this forum? Apparently, the lineage goes like this:
MEROVECH]CLODION LE CHEVELU]PHARAMOND]MARCOMIR+FROTMUND]BOAZ ben FRIMUTEL]TITUREL]MANAEL]CATH-ALOYS]AMINADAB]JOSHUA]JOSEPH- ben YESHUA (JESUS)
Now, as I have said before- I COULD CARE LESS about the descendance from the desposyni. I am interested in the Trojan origins.
Marcomir's side is the line that *supposedly* goes back there. Frotmund's line is the one that *supposedly* goes back to the desposyni. It is EVEN listed on the wikipedia on-line. The H.R.E. Charlemagne was a Frankish descendant from that line and it was researched by the church. Also, Napolean wanted to prove his connection to that bloodline and HE even had it researched. There is even one website that researches their DAVIDIC bloodlines and has quite abit of info on it. Like I have said, I just posted this info for the people that are incredulous to the possibility of a bloodline from the desposynic. I could care less about it personally. Have a great day.
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Name: lady andromeda •
Date: 03/11/07 4:20 |
A: For anyone interested- there is a SUPER website on Davidic bloodlines:
http members.aol.com-rdavidh21-8-davidicdynasty.html
-I- hope that works. But if it doesn't, I am sure you can find it. I have discussed this material with you all as much as I have time to. Happy Hunting!
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Name: lady andromeda •
Date: 03/11/07 4:23 |
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A: Also, really quick- wiki the names MARCOMIR, FROTMUND, BOAZ ben FRIMUTEL. I didn't make this stuff up you guys. I definitely have BETTER things to do. Take care now.
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Name: Panluna •
Date: 03/11/07 15:47 |
A: I watched the History Channel last night and the program THE DARK AGES showed a timeline which started 300A.D.My question about Sarah places her life in the 0 to !st century bracket.What were the names of the kings in the pre Merovigian era?.The fact that they claimed they descended from sea gods could refer to a seafaring ancestry one that worshipped a water god(dess).All ties in in history and theories have to be proven and every aspect is revelent.
What relation was Joseph of Arimathea to Jesus?
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Name: lady andromeda •
Date: 03/12/07 1:41 |
A: Panluna, Good question about Sarah. Here is *a* list of Frankish/Merovingian rulers (this is just one line) from Merovech back:
MEROVECH
CLODION LE CHEVELU
PHARAMOND
MARCOMIR
CLODIUS II
DAGOBERT (c.e. 300)
GENEBALD I DUKE OF THE EAST FRANKS
DAGOBERT
WALTER
CLODIUS III
BARTHERUS
HILDERIC
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SUNNO
FARABERT
CLODOMI-R- IV
MARCOMIR IV
Now, do bear in mind that each one of these men spawned their particular branch in the line. So, it is VERY difficult to guess which particular branch She *may* have married into. That area (Gaul) was SSSOOO splintered at that time! As DMS said, *supposedly* Anna (enygeus) daughter of Joseph of Arimathea married Bran "The Blessed". There is a website that has ALOT of Davidic bloodline info on it and it includes the Desposyni. http://members.aol.com-rda-vidh218-davidicdynasty.htm-l- . I am at the moment working on *verifying* some of his info and SO FAR what I have done checks out pretty well. History and genealogy is really tricky. I have found very accurate records from ancient Roman periods or Biblical periods (although Herod destroyed alot of it) (the Jews are REALLY big on accurate bloodlines) and I have found very scant records from the Atlanta Georgia area after the Civil War. Go figure!
Anyway, good luck in looking into Sarah's descendants. You know Panluna, at the moment, I am busying myself in trying to prove the CORRECT parentage of Mary Magdalene. So far, I have about 6 sets of possibilities for her parents. I am not so much interested in who she married or hooked up with. I am VERY interested in Mary Magdalene herself. I have been studying the Mandaean materials lately and they have QUITE a different spin on John the Baptist, Jesus, and *a* Miryai the priestess or teacher. You ought to check that out! That is VERY informative. The Mandaeans have been around since shortly after Jesus' time. Some people think that they descended or evolved from a sect around Biblical times (Nasoreans, Elkasites, Ebionites and Sabaens). Take care now Panluna. Happy Hunting!
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Name: betty47 •
Date: 03/12/07 15:44 |
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A: Well lady andromeda. You'll have to share your research on Mary of Magdala's parents with us when you learn more. Certainly sounds very interesting.
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Name: lightwoman •
Date: 03/12/07 19:42 |
A: I take it nobody on this thread saw the episode of "Digging for the Truth" in which they did DNA testing on an early (5th century? can't recall exact date) Merovingian descendant to prove whether the remains contained genetic traces of semitic/middle-eastern origin (based on that a child - the supposed Sarah - of both Jesus and Mary Magdalen would have been of Semitic/middle-eastern genetic roots). Guess what? The test revealed NO trace of semitic/middle-eastern genetic roots, so there goes that theory and legend....
Maybe Mary Magdalen and someone named Sarah did make it to the shores of ancient France, so there could be a hint of truth behind the legends. But keep in mind, every church in the middle ages claimed relics (bones, teeth, pieces of the cross, etc.) of the saints or their own "authentic" claim straight back to Jesus - it was the publicity and marketing ploy of the age to gain converts and fill their coffers from the purses of pilgrims.
And speaking of the program "Digging for the Truth" there's an example of a TV show that televised a result which orthodox Christianity would be praising. Gee, don't recall any media circus over those results; it's only when long-held Church dogma is "threatened" that the loud clamor arises. Methinks they doth protest too much....
The truth will be revealed, maybe we'll see it in our lifetimes, maybe we won't. Let's be patient and let the scholars and scientists do their thing - which I believe they will when all the dust settles. Time will tell.
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Name: lady andromeda •
Date: 03/12/07 23:32 |
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A: betty47, rest assured I will definitely be sharing that info! [grin]
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Name: lady andromeda •
Date: 03/12/07 23:34 |
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A: lightwoman, I TOTALLY agree! "time will tell". Well said!
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Name: Panluna •
Date: 03/13/07 2:52 |
A: hi lightwoman,
That was Queen Arogone who's DNA was tested on Digging for the Truth.Maybe they should have tested one of the Merovogians males,instead.
Thank you for the info on the ancesters of the Merovigian rulers.,lady andromeda.It completely mistified me that i could not find those missing links anywhere.What was your source?I can't wait till the dust settles and we get a difinitive answer to the age old questions.itwill be interesting to see the conclusions.
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Name: Panluna •
Date: 03/13/07 2:56 |
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A: i still haven't found out if Joseph of Arimethea was related to Mary,Jesus's mother as a sibling,Uncle, etc or related toJoseph Jesus's father.
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Name: lady andromeda •
Date: 03/13/07 3:29 |
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A: Panluna, The Merovingian bloodlines are listed by genealogists all over the internet. Also, type in any of those names and you will find a plethora of info on the net. Some of those genealogists are LDS and they *really* put a lot of work in there bloodlines. Panluna, if you go to that website that I told you about with the Davidic bloodlines, and go towards the bottom of the line, you will find some info on JOSEPH OF ARIMATHEA. This website has alot of info on the desposyni. I strongly urge you to research his material. I have previously posted his website so take a look at what he says regarding JOSEPH of ARIMATHEA. Take care now.
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Name: lady andromeda •
Date: 03/13/07 4:23 |
A: Panluna, Here are a few websites that have interesting material:
TROJAN ORIGINS OF EUROPEAN ROYALTY
http://hope-of-israel.org/i000109a.htm
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CHARLEMAGNE
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/cilia-lacorte/charlmgn.htm
DESPOSYNI
http://www.dh-ushara.com/book/yeshua/desposyn.htm
MEROVINGI-AN- STUFF
http://www.shocking.com/~gregbard/g-enealogy/merovingian
http://fabpedigree-.com/pedix/peix63.htm#a12
http://patrio-t.net/~crouch/abor/l24.html
http://cott-age.moulin-le-cygne.com/merovingians.html
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Those are a few interesting sites that cover material relating to the Merovingian lines. I hope I copied them down correctly for you. Maybe some of those might help in your quest Panluna. Happy Hunting!
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Name: lady andromeda •
Date: 03/14/07 4:59 |
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A: This website is dash happy on URLs!
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Name: hbic3 •
Date: 03/17/07 2:24 |
A: Lady,
Apparently you don't seem to understand what "verified" means. A Merovingian genealogical link to Jesus or any member of his family has not ever been verified, ever, by anyone. It's impossible to verify. There are surviving UNbiased records from Jesus' time that enables anyone to undoubtedly, beyond reproof, verify that there is a connection. Not sure why that's so hard to understand.
It's only a theory , and no matter how valid it is, a theory is not verification. At the very least, you need a MAJORITY of those whose job it is to study and check these things out, in this case, historians and archeaologists, to agree that it's more probable than not. And as far as a Merovingian genealogical connection to Jesus, the Majority of historians and archeaologists agree that it's less likely than is....
But, whatever, you're just going to believe what you want, which is your right.
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Name: hbic3 •
Date: 03/17/07 2:26 |
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A: I meant, NO surviving....
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Name: lady andromeda •
Date: 03/17/07 4:36 |
A: hbic3, YOU don't seem to understand! I could care less about the Jesus or desposynic thing. I am just telling anyone with half a brain what is out there on the internet. The Church *supposedly* verified information on the descendants of Jude *supposed* brother of Jesus. I took them at their word. Perhaps it is a mistake to belief that the historians, scribes, and Church founding fathers knew what they were doing but, alas, I will give them the benefit of the doubt unlike some people. There are Davidic bloodlines honey that have most assuredly VERIFIED there info. You need to go back and do your historical research. Here are a few Church founding fathers and historians that might disagree with you:
Hegesippus (c. 110- c. 180) Wrote 5 books on commentaries on the "Acts of the Church". They were largely lost BUT fragments were quoted by Eusebius in "Historia Ecclesiae, 3.20
"There still survived of the kindred of the Lord the grandsons of Judas, who according to the flesh was called his brother."
Also, in "Eccleciatical History", Eusebius records an account by the HISTORIAN JULIANUS AFRICANUS:
"For the relatives of our Lord according to the flesh, whether with the desire of boasting or simply wishing to state the fact, in either case truly, have handed down the following account....
VERIFICATION- Noun
1. The act of verifying or the state of being verified.
a. A confirmation of truth OR authority.
b. The evidence for such a confirmation.
c. A formal assertion of validity.
I don't think you mean to be rude but perhaps you presume too much. You think
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Name: lady andromeda •
Date: 03/17/07 4:44 |
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A: hbic3, My verification are records and documents from the Holy Chuch, royalty genealogy, scribes and monks that spent their whole lives VERIFYING and DOCUMENTING all things Holy. Sorry they are not good enough for you hbic3 but you are correct- they ARE good enough for me and many others like me. When I have time, I will find you more documentation hbic3. They are out there.
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Name: lady andromeda •
Date: 03/17/07 4:46 |
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A: hbic3, I learned quite early on NEVER say IMPOSSIBLE! [smile]
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Name: Anchorite •
Date: 03/18/07 6:26 |
A: PHILOSOPHY LOST
What counts is not blood. What counts is how to relate. The chevron and circle show the basis. Mystery and creation. Listen, coordinate. This is it, if anything sacred.
Anchorite07
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Name: lady andromeda •
Date: 03/18/07 7:30 |
A: Anchorite,
"There is no Religion (or philosophy) greater than Truth"
Take care now.
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Name: Panluna •
Date: 03/31/07 0:12 |
A: Lady Andromeda,
The answer to my question is Joseph of Arimethia was Mary's Uncle making him the great uncle of Jesus.my computor went on the fritz for awhile so I'm just catching up to things.
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Name: lady andromeda •
Date: 03/31/07 5:41 |
A: Panluna, I'm glad you found your answer to who Joseph of Arimathea was to Jesus. I wonder where the name *Arimathea* comes from? Was it a place or an ancestor of Joseph? I'll have to work on that one. [smile]
Take care Panluna.
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Name: Panluna •
Date: 03/31/07 14:09 |
A: Lady Andromeda,
Arimethia was the place he was born.Was Bron"the Blessed" the link for the pre-Merovingian lineage?And could his marriage to Anna be the connection to the bloodline of Jesus?is this how Joseph of Arimethia brought the Grail to Avalon?
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Name: Panluna •
Date: 03/31/07 19:05 |
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A: I did some research.Sara was a servant who traveled to France with the Maries.Sara-a-Kali is the patron saint of the Roma.I have no idea where I read that she was the daughter of Mary Magdelene.At least I found out what happened to her.The fact that Jesus' and Mary's son Judah and all their remains were found in the tomb would say to me that they lived their lives in the region,maybe traveled and even had descendants not included at the buriel site.It's too bad there weren't any dates on the ossuaries.I'm wondering if they may have been condemned to death after the crucifiction because of the fallout. Or if they lived out their natural lives.At any rate getting to the bottom line I'm glad that this discovery was finally made public.Can't wait for the DNA results, my copy of the DVD and the book I ordered.There is certainly alot to muddle through----2000 years of fact and fiction.What a story!!!
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Name: light •
Date: 03/31/07 19:51 |
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A: Tabor says in his book 'The Jesus Dynasty' that one gospel genealogy is Joseph's (gospel of Matthew) and one is most likely Mary's (gospel of Luke). So, they don't necessarily conflict. They may show both sides of the family.
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Name: lady andromeda •
Date: 04/02/07 4:22 |
A: Hey Panluna,
At any rate getting to the bottom line I'm glad that this discovery was finally made public.Can't wait for the DNA results, my copy of the DVD and the book I ordered.There is certainly alot to muddle through----2000 years of fact and fiction.What a story!!!
You definitely have that right! It IS a mess to sort out! Indeed, what a story! [smile] Sure sounds to me as if you are on the right track to do it. Where did you find the info on Sara-a-Kali? I'm having trouble finding much on her. I find info on the Maris but not her. I would appreciate any help on that Panluna. Thanks. Take care now
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Name: Panluna •
Date: 04/02/07 17:37 |
A: Hi Lady Andromeda,
Several months ago I bookedmarked a website called the shrine of Sarah la Kali.At that time the alternate theory of Sarah being the daughter of Mary Magdelene was still circulating.Have you read The Jesus Family Tomb?WOW what a revelation!!! and very solidly proven.No doubts from me.But it's kind of sad,too especially the facts about Judah.It does change my perspective on the facts and fiction that evovled during the last two thousand years.I did learn one new fact that I would not have had any idea about: if I hadn't really read the book carefully.It's called The star of Jonah.Enjoy the shrine of Sarah La Kali.
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Name: lady andromeda •
Date: 04/02/07 19:40 |
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A: Panluna, THANKS! I will check out that website. I haven't read the book The Jesus Family Tomb. I just watched the show. The book sounds interesting. I want to know about that Star of Jonah. I imagine it has ALOT more evidence and info in it than was shown on the show. Thanks again Panluna. Take care now.
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Name: Panluna •
Date: 04/02/07 19:50 |
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A: I have to correct myself again: I meant The Star of Jacob.Jonah was a whale story.
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Name: Panluna •
Date: 04/04/07 15:40 |
A: Hi Lady Andromeda,
I watched another program called BEYOND THE DaVINCI CODE last night and the story of Sarah and Mary Magdelene was one of the central themes of the Grail legends.i knew i didn't imagine it.
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Name: lady andromeda •
Date: 04/04/07 21:06 |
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A: Hey Panluna, I watched that show last night as well. I saw the material about Sarah possibly being Mary's daughter. That was quite a timely show. [smile] Take care now friend.
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Name: Anchorite •
Date: 04/05/07 2:41 |
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A: Sweet
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Name: 5566 •
Date: 04/10/08 4:10 |
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A: For lightwoman: The royal tested was a queen who had married into the Merovingians. She would not be expected to have any genetic ties to Sarah. There is a chance of earlier family ties whereby the Queen could have Merovingian blood but it is just as,if not more likely there weren't any earlier ties. As a result, the DNA testing was logistically flawed and therefore proves nothing.
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Name: Panluna •
Date: 04/10/08 16:30 |
A: 5566,
There are more mysteries than answers...
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Name: Judith •
Date: 05/25/08 8:26 |
A: Any one can pay to have a genealogy written. I for one do not see how the Royal Family could possibly have all that from the time of Jesus, especially due to the fact that Churches that held records were being burned down. What good would it do to prove you were related? Books and Librarys of Jesus time were being burned down. I hold records that take me back to the Mayflower, and one day went on line to read it again, and it was changed drastically. The copys I have held for years are now saying its was wrong.
All this is as silly as claiming a former life that one can't prove. Its like a bad hair day, you can't do a thing with it.
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Name: Panluna •
Date: 06/01/08 17:53 |
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A: It's always based on the facts presented.
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