...The- committee turned to geology. Dr Yuval Goren, a geo-archaeologist and head of the Archaeological Institute at Tel-Aviv University, soon found evidence that a team of sophisticated forgers had led the earlier experts astray.
The patina on the stone had in fact been manufactured artificially
The charcoal particles which produced the convincing radiocarbon date had been added by hand
The gold fragments hinting at an ancient fire were a clever final addition
The authorities presented their conclusions. They announced that the stone tablet, and the James Ossuary, were elaborate fakes.
But who was producing these fakes and how? Dr Goren decided to piece together how the stone tablet had been made. He tracked the origin of the stone itself - apparently a building block taken from a Crusader castle. It was even possible to work out how the fake patina had been manufactured and the ingredients used. What was clear was the team of forgers included experts in a range of disciplines.
More fakes suspected
When the police took Oded Golan into custody and searched his apartment they discovered a workshop with a range of tools, materials, and half finished 'antiquities'. This was evidence for an operation of a scale far greater than they had suspected.
Investigators have established that collectors around the world have paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for artefacts that came through Oded Golan's associates. Dozens of these items have now been examined by Dr Goren, and all have been revealed to be forgeries. Police now suspect that artefacts made by the same team of forgers have found their way into leading museums around the world.
GO ON BELIEVING THESE CROOKS PEOPLE. You have painted yourselves into a corner and I doubt any of your egos and pride will let you now admit how wrong you are about the "Jesus Tomb" and Simcha. Meanwhile he and Cameron are laughing at you all the way to the bank! Me? I just feel sorry for the laymen who have been duped by them.
Name:sadinoel •
Date: 04/27/07 15:20
A: HOW CAN THIS BE IGNORED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!-!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
More- fakes suspected
When the police took Oded Golan into custody and searched his apartment they discovered a workshop with a range of tools, materials, and half finished 'antiquities'. This was evidence for an operation of a scale far greater than they had suspected.
Investigators have established that collectors around the world have paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for artefacts that came through Oded Golan's associates. Dozens of these items have now been examined by Dr Goren, and all have been revealed to be forgeries. Police now suspect that artefacts made by the same team of forgers have found their way into leading museums around the world.
Name:JohnD •
Date: 04/27/07 16:38
A: That article is so old its been removed. Any one have any information about the CURRENT trial that IS taking place RIGHT NOW on the James ossuary? If you read the old IAA report the experts were split on its being a fake. Do the Jewish authorities have any reason to "shoot down the tomb"? I would say yes they do. The last thing they want to admit is that Jesus was really here. I bet when they found the box with only blood stained garments in it, there was a "uh oh".
Name:Elizabeth •
Date: 04/27/07 17:50
A: Here is an interesting article- as of May 2006 concerning
the ossuary by the Biblical Archaeology Society.
A: It's an old article. Does that make it invalid?
Oded Golan is a crook. Plain and simple.
Occams Razor. Look it up.
Name:sadinoel •
Date: 04/27/07 20:44
A: Oh yeah...
OJ is innocent!!!!
Name:sadinoel •
Date: 04/27/07 20:49
A: From February of 2007
THE ‘MISSING OSSUARY’ The film makers try to fool the public into believing that as ten ossuaries were discovered in the tomb and only nine were published by Kloner that the tenth ossuary was the controversial James son of Joseph, brother of Jesus ossuary which was declared to be a forgery by a panel of experts. The attempt to deceive the public can be clearly seen here in terms of an ‘agenda’. Two members of the BAR Crowd who appear prominently in the film had earlier declared that the ossuary had originally come from a robbed tomb which they had cleared a few years ago in Silwan and not purchased by the collector decades earlier as he claimed. They clearly had attempted to draw media attention to their robbed tomb in Silwan and when the media attention flagged they now suddenly claim that they were mistaken and the ossuary no longer comes from Silwan but from the Talpiot ‘Jesus Family tomb excavated in 1980 by the Israel Antiquities Authority! Well, last week ago
a small problem suddenly arose when Oded Golan the owner of the ossuary in question, who is on trial for forging objects, produced a photograph of the ossuary with a time stamp 1976, four years before the Talpiot tomb was accidentally discovered!
Moreover, they maintained that the missing ossuary, their James son of Joseph brother of Jesus ossuary was of the same identical dimensions as the ‘missing’ ossuary from Jesus Family tomb at Talpiot. Sounds convincing until an enterprising skeptic here in Jerusalem checked the dimensions of the two ‘identical’ ossuaries and found that the Talpiot plain white “missing’ ossuary is approximately 20% longer than the James brother of Jesus ossuary ! So much for ‘identical’.
THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER The truth of the matter is that the missing ossuary was never missing, never stolen from the IAA, nor stolen from the Talpiot tomb. Plain ossuaries which bore no inscription, nor any ornaments were automatically placed in an inner courtyard in the Rockefeller Museum during my tenure at curator (1972-1997). Due to a lack of storage space this was standard operating procedure, the ossuary was given a registration number, measured and simply stored in the inner courtyard with perhaps an additional 50-100 plain ossuaries. This was personally explained to Tabor by me so as to avoid any problems of a conspiracy theory in which the plain ossuary would figure. Unfortunately, it did not fit their agenda so they artificially created a story in which a plain white ossuary, suddenly morphed into a ossuary with two rosettes on the front, traces of red paint, bearing the inscription on the back ‘James son of Joseph, brother of Jesus.
Name:sadinoel •
Date: 04/27/07 20:59
A: Krumbein = Johnny Cochran
The glove does not fit!
Nevermind all the forgery equipment found by police and testimonies from credible witnesses that say OJ er... Golan is GUILTY!
Nevermind all the other evidence! Krumbein is STICKING to his "Patina Story" as the end all be all of this case.
Golan is a crook. IF they can't prove the ossuary is fake in court because of the flawed legal system, they will still CONVICT GOLAN of many other forgery counts. He is being indicted on MANY counts... not just the ossuary!
So what do you think is more likely? He forged everything else but the ossuary is authentic??? Or that its also a forgery like all the others?
Occams Razor
wake up
Name:Panluna •
Date: 04/27/07 23:48
A: The James Ossuary is authentic and so are the other ossuaries removed from the Talpiot Tomb.The thieves are in big trouble for stealing an item of antiquity but it led to this archeological discovery.As far as forgeries go:Buyers Beware!!!It's also against the law to buy or sell an item of antiquity.But you can buy replicas. At least they got caught and either way the'll get their just punishment from society.And because this is so huge everyone will know about the final outcome.The thieves and forgerers lost the publics' trust but I believe in the authenticity of this valuable find.The people debunking the tomb are in a mental state of denial and haven't accepted the facts that exposed a 2000 year old twist in the grain of truth whispered for centuries and ignored.Jesus the Rabbi was mortal and he had a family who were buried according to the custom of his religion.Isreal has thousands of archeological sites and many tombs similar to the Talpiot tomb.Why the doubts?
Name:betty47 •
Date: 04/30/07 3:20
A: "Do the Jewish authorities have any reason to "shoot down the tomb"? I would say yes they do.
I wonder if Jewish authorities want to shoot down the tomb. It can go either way. If a tomb was found with bones it in, Jews might feel that it shoots down that Christ rose in bodily form. My feeling is that people will spin this all different ways depending on their personal beliefs. Some may say the tomb can be shown as proof that Christ didn't rise. Some may say it's proof that Christ existed. Some may say it's proof that Christ existed as a Jew. Everyone will have their own theories as already seen by this forum.
Name:sam •
Date: 04/30/07 23:54
A: Sadinoel,
Re: "Oded Golan: Forgery Ring "
It is known and it is fact that some of the stories in the old book went under many changes according to what they like and what they do not like, they changed the word of God thinking that they making a good thing by elevating the status of the messenger, thinking that they will be rewarded for it in the heaven. Few people lead and the rest follow blindly, not only at that time before 20 centuries but even today in the 21st century!.
The Quran, before 1400 years mentioned this story, you might accepted or not, no big deal. before 2000 year they believe that Jesus ascended to heaven, and after 2000 years a tomb was found and they are not sure, BUT FOLLOWING ASSUMPTION, in their stories?.
We know that Jesus done many miracles, even bring a dead man to life, and He had the power to appear and disappear from closed up room and He can Vanish, so do you think that He has the power to get out and vanish from between the crowd around Him. Did He appear after three day and showed the others that He wasn't harmed?. was He hiding?. Here what came in the Quran:
'And for their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of God." And they did not kill Him nor did they crucify Him; but another was made to resemble Him to them. And indeed, THOSE WHO DIFFER OVER IT ARE IN DOUBT ABOUT IT. They have NO KNOWLEDGE OF IT EXCEPT THE FOLLOWING OF ASSUMPTION. And they did not kill Him, for certain. Q-4:157
God bless you all.
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/02/07 8:27
A: The Talpiot Tomb: Separating Truth from Fiction (Completed)
Filed under: Tabor's Blog — James Tabor
With the initial airing of the Discovery Channel documentary “The Lost Tomb of Jesus” in the U.S., Canada, and Israel, and the publication of the book, The Jesus Family Tomb by Simcha Jacobovici and Charles Pelligrino, the Talpiot “Jesus tomb” has generated an avalanche of media coverage and Internet discussion. A simple Google search for the string “Jesus family tomb” generates a million and a half Web sites. The passions and emotions on this topic have been high, and correct and reliable information has been hard to come by. In this post I want to attempt to sort through a list of the “fictions” regarding the Tomb, its discovery, and its investigation, focusing on things that have been reported or written over the past month that are, to my knowledge, in
error.
THE JAMES OSSUARY AND THE TALPIOT TOMB
18) "The 10 ossuaries from the Talpiot tomb with their six inscriptions were catalogued and thoroughly examined in 1980 by Amos Kloner, supervisor of the excavation, Joseph Gath, the excavator, and Joe Zias, the curator of collections at the Rockefeller museum. They were judged at that time to be of no special significance or interest."
The late Joseph Gath makes it clear in his final excavation report that when the ossuaries were removed and tagged in the field, during the first two days of the rescue archaeological operation (March 30 & 31, 1980) that only four of the six inscriptions had been noticed but none were yet “deciphered.” The task of the excavation was not to carefully examine the ossuaries but to remove them quickly, even the first day, excavate the cave, and record and tag any of the findings, and produce an accurate survey map. Those tasks were all carried out by Joseph Gath, with the assistance of Shimon Gibson and three or four workers, according to proper and established procedures. The area supervisor was Amos Kloner.
Several months later when Gath produced his printed report on the ossuaries he simply notes that “Some inscriptions in Greek and Aramaic were found in the cave that have not been deciphered yet.” Lots of ossuaries from tombs were being brought into the Israel Department of Antiquities in those days and those responsible had no reason to pay any special attention to this group. An inscription “Yeshua bar Yehosef”
might have been of some interest had it been noticed, but it is quite difficult to read and could well have been one of the two inscriptions recognized only later when they were cleaned, examined, and photographed. It was Rahmani who finally published the inscriptions in his catalogue (1994), and Kloner’s publication of the Talpiot tomb in
1996 makes use of his work on the inscriptions, accepting his readings. Precisely when Rahmani looked at these particular ossuaries, but one would assume in the 1980s as he worked on his corpus of inscribed ossuaries in the Israeli State collection. There is no indication of anything related to this excavation, or this tomb, or the deciphering of these inscriptions that is in the least bit out of the ordinary in terms
of methods and procedures.
In two separate interviews in late 2005 and early 2006 Joe Zias reported that he had checked all his records and notes and had nothing in his files related to the Talpiot tomb nor any specific recollection of these particular ossuaries of the many hundreds that were collected and catalogued in the Israel State collection during the decade of the 1980s. Zias first noted the ossuary “Jesus son of Joseph” with its interesting
cluster of names from the Talpiot tomb while filming with a BBC crew in 1996. He stated that the “cluster” of names was so unusually impressive that were it not verified that they were from the controlled provenance of a licensed excavation site he would wonder about the possibility of forgery. He also called for further investigation of the tomb and its ossuaries.
19) "The ossuary inscribed “James son of Joseph, brother of Jesus,” cannot possibly be the so-called “10th missing ossuary” from the Talpiot tomb. That particular ossuary was described as “plain,” it had no inscription, it differed in size from the James ossuary, and it was put in the courtyard area behind the Rockefeller museum and essentially discarded."
There were originally ten ossuaries found in the Talpiot tomb, assigned the IAA numbers: 80.500 through 80.509. Only nine are now included in the Israeli State collection and published in Rahmani’s 1994 catalogue (Nos. 701-709, pp. 222-224).
Number 80.509 is missing and there is no photography of it in the IAA files whereas the other nine have photographs and descriptions. All that we know about this 10th ossuary is the single line in Amos Kloner’s 1996 article in ‘Atiquot on the Talpiot tomb that reads:
10. IAA 80.509. 60 x26 x 30 cm. Plain.
The IAA recently re-measured the James ossuary and its dimensions are 57.5 x 26 x 30. There are quite a few ossuaries in the Rahmani catalogue with original and re-measured dimensions, sometimes differing two or three centimeters, so the size of the James ossuary and the missing 80.509 are quite close. Ossuary 80.509 is described as “plain,” meaning not decorated, and it is also listed as “uninscribed.”
One might properly ask whether the James ossuary might be described as “plain” or "uninscribed.” What one has to remember is that Joseph Gath reported a month following the excavation itself that only four of the ossuaries were “so far” noticed as inscribed, and yet we now know there turned out to be six once they were cleaned and more closely examined at the Rockefeller. This means that the original “field descriptions” were preliminary and that two of the inscribed ossuaries were not immediately noticed as inscribed. Kloner has said in interviews that all of the ossuaries were heavy with moisture and coated with terra rosa soil. So it is possible that a preliminary field description of 80.509 could have been “plain” and its inscription overlooked. If Kloner is basing his 1996 description on the preliminary field notes and observations rather than any subsequent closer examination of 80.509 at the Rockefeller then it is surely possible that “Plain” might fit the James ossuary as a preliminary description. Compared to other decorated ossuaries in the Talpiot tomb
the James ossuary could be described as “plain.” As can be seen in a good photo one can barely make out the beginnings of an extremely faint rossette pattern on the side without the inscription so that compared to the five elaborately “decorated” ossuaries from this tomb it might be called plain.
20) "The patina studies comparing the James ossuary with the other ossuaries from the Talpiot tomb are invalid and tell us nothing. The physical condition of the James ossuary, and the fact that Oded Golan, its owner, acquired it before 1980, show that it could not have come from the Talpiot tomb."
Patina “fingerprinting” is the idea of scanning patina samples on stone surfaces, in this case samples from ossuaries taken at random from a dozen tombs from various locations in the Jerusalem area, with an electron microscope to reveal a chemical spectrum/measurement of elements such as magnesium, aluminum, phosphorus, potassium, titanium and iron. This is a new technique and preliminary results indicated the following:
The Talpiot Jesus ossuary, as expected, provided a close “echo” or correspondence to the patina spectrums taken from the surface walls of the tomb itself, as well as the other Talpiot ossuaries. The spikes and peaks of mineral accretion levels were very similar, just as one might expect from stone exposed to the same conditions over 2000 years. Ossuaries from the other tombs were then similarly tested with preference given to samples that seemed to be a close match visually, in terms of color, to the Talpiot ossuaries, but in no case did the spectrum or chemical pattern come close to that of the Talpiot tomb and its ossuaries. Patina samples were then taken from the 2002 ossuary owned by Oded Golan inscribed “James son of Joseph, brother of Jesus,” which is quite similar in size and shape to the Jesus ossuary but different in visual color. The chemical spectrum of the James ossuary strongly "echoed” those of the Talpiot wall surfaces and its ossuaries, whereas no other ossuaries from other tombs chosen at random approached any type of correspondence at all. These tests indicated that color or “visual” comparisons of ossuary patina can be misleading, in other words, what you can’t see is more important than what you can see.
These results appear to indicate that the James ossuary came from an environment such as that of the Talpiot tomb or one that was strikingly similar. These tests are preliminary and more samples are now being tested with the goal of assembling a more comprehensive data base taken from ossuaries from diverse locations in the Jerusalem area.
Oded Golan, the owner of the James ossuary, insists he had had the ossuary for decades, which puts one back at least to 1980 or earlier, but in his first interviews he was not precise about the date. The stamp on the photo that has now been admitted into evidence in his trial, “Expiry 76,” apparently indicates the expiration date of the paper upon which the photo is printed.
Raising the question about the James ossuary being the missing 10th of Talpiot does not imply any sort of improper conduct on the part of any IAA officials. Shimon Gibson has never been convinced of the 10th missing ossuary option, but he has raised another possibility, that the James ossuary might be a missing 11th ossuary, removed from the tomb prior to the inventory of the official 10, particularly if the patina tests
are indicative of its provenance. There are several questions in this regard that are unresolved. Was the entrance to the tomb accessible even before the blast on March 27th exposed it to full view by blowing open the porch and its roof? The absence of a blocking stone might indicate such. Or alternatively, if the tomb was left open and exposed on the Sabbath between its discovery and the excavation that began on Sunday morning, who knows who might have entered it?
Krumbein’s tests have indicated that the James ossuary shows erosion and plant growth along the bottom as if it were exposed to outside elements at some point in its history, either in ancient or modern times. His initial estimate of a period of 200 years he has recently said was not precise, and the period of such exposure could be much shorter. The oddly faint pattern on one side of the James ossuary, along with its faded color makes one wonder whether it might have had a complex history even in ancient times. It does not have the “like new” look of most ossuaries that are sealed in a single tomb undisturbed for 2000 years. What is needed is a further refinement of the patina comparisons with a wider sample of ossuaries from more tombs in the area, plus any other types of comparative tests between the James ossuary and the nine we have from the east Talpiot tomb.
Name:sadinoel •
Date: 05/02/07 18:09
A: It's pointless to try and educate those who refuse to remove their blindfolds.
Have fun inflating each others egos on this board, as this "find" fades into oblivion and Simcha laughs at you from his mansion(s) and cashes he checks with your names on them.
I have an Amway meeting set up for anyone interested in buying soem cool products. LOL
Lol
Name:jsm •
Date: 05/02/07 18:57
A: sadinoel,
"as this "find" fades into oblivion and Simcha laughs at you from his mansion(s) and cashes he checks with your names on them."
I think everybody at this messages board except me and you actually bought all the gear. I just watched the show on t.v. thats enough for me. It didn't take them to long till they wanted to make money off of this. The strange part to me is, ever since the day this "discovery" came out, I haven't heard anything more about it, only here. Not one news story on television, not one article on cnn.com or online, only on this message board is this story being kept alive. If its so earth shattering why has it died?
Name:Ladyhawk •
Date: 05/02/07 21:04
A: jsm:
It died because somebody powerful wanted it to. You know--kind of like the way the US government works.
Further, I think they made a mistake in making the film first contact, so to speak. The book is quite impressive in terms of establishing procedures, timelines, science vs. speculation, and the overall credibility of the team. Most of the skeptics here appear to have been extremely put off by the film, and I think perhaps there's some justification for that.
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/03/07 6:41
A: Ladyhawk - uh oh, now you're going to get me started on politics. But it's so true, what you say, since the U.S. government is run by the Radical Christian Reich who want to run everyone's life for them, and make everyone the same, and hide truths that aren't convenient for them - they've been Bushwhacked. They like to "do the thinking for you". They can only think in black and white terms; are too narrow minded to see/appreciate/respect the various shades of gray, and how everything isn't a simple 'right' or 'wrong'.
They don't believe in celebrating nor respecting/accepting the diversity of life-styles, don't believe in equality, in being tolerant of other religions and cultures - i.e. they don't really follow Jesus, that's just their cover. They want a world full of robots. They'd certainly love all women to be 'Stepford Wives'.
I, as well as those more liberal minded, don't care how radical fundamentalists want to live their lives, it's not my business, [as long as they aren't harming others], but the rad right sure like to tell everyone else how to run their lives.
I think what the moderates of all religions in the U.S. should do, (some perhaps are?) those who are tolerant, is to ban together, and start their own movement/organization.
As regards the Jesus Tomb documentary and book, Ladyhawk, well, those who are truly open minded and interested in this, will watch the documentary and read the book -they came out together. The documentary just made me more curious for more, I was in awe, and thus soon read the book beginning of March. I personally don't think it was a mistake. And I happened to like how Simcha and crew just made the big announcement end of February, with no warning, and everyone is in shock - whaaat?!' :0 Good one.
And it'll take time for all this to sink in. Can't do it overnight. Will perhaps take years. There's still work to be done on this theory, it continues to evolve, just as we all do [some of us at least], just as the world does. I'm not worried - one day there will be a lot more people on board here, I think. Must be patient.
And after all, regarding the SBL site there are hundreds and hundreds of biblical scholars, yet only a handful have come out so far to dispute this theory 100%. That should tell us something. The wise scholars, the truly intelligent ones, are researching before saying anything. That is who we have to wait to hear from. The ones spouting off right now, not so much.
I would never try to claim to be any kind of expert as regards the Talpiot Tomb - which is one reason why I post from Dr. Tabor's blog, because he's involved in this, knows what is going on, is very intelligent, informative, objective, rational and sane.
So it's kind of amusing [while I sadly shake my head] how some of those with big yet weak egos, like to think all of a sudden they are now some kind of expert as regards the Talpiot Tomb, and either start websites full of mostly bunk to dispute it, or else come charging in here with all their hysterical rants/tantrums and insults. Ah well, not much one can do, but ignore them mostly. They feel insecure for some reason, but that's their problem.
Peace,
JMD
Name:JohnD •
Date: 05/03/07 13:19
A: I just hope they will actually investigate it more and not just say its a hoax and thats it. They sure don't mind investigating the shroud .I think it would only be fitting that all the many "tourist" tombs of Christ would be incorrect and this tomb sitting in front of our faces for 25+ years would be the real thing. Would Jesus have had it any other way?
Name:Panluna •
Date: 05/03/07 14:24
A: JohnD,
Jesus would have wanted the Truth to be known.
