Name:sam •
Title: POPE OR EMPEROR ? •
Date posted: 04/17/08 22:38
Q: Watching pope Benedict XVI for several hours in the last two days, and remembering the many pictures [movies & decomenteries] about Jesus and the Emperors of Rome, make me believe that the popes do not represent Jesus, not at all, but they do represents the Romans Emperors.
The matter of fact that they do not follow Jesus' words or care about them, but they do care for sure about keeping their empire and its wealth.
Jesus stood in front of his apostles and walk to meet His people wearing a very simple clothes and He never stretch His hands to be kissed by His followers !!!, and did not have servant around Him to help Him dress and undress, or to put a hat on His head then take it off then put it back again and again !!!, and Jesus prayed to God without orchestra and so His people, and in their prayers never mentioned "corinthians or galatians or Paul", but all that changed when Paul and his followers moved to Rome, and change Christianity to the ROMAN STYLE.
If you close your eyes just for a moment and remember the true Jesus in His true time then you will see the differences, and you will agree that the popes do not act in the right way.
Jesus said: 'BEWARE"
"Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts;" L-20:46
{The pope not only walks with a long robe, but with a robe which has a long tail, which needs two servants to lift it up, and he sits on a higher chair than the rest of the priests etc. , etc. , etc. !!!!.}
"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." M-19:24
{The popes are very rich and they live in palaces, like the Emperors, and if Jesus was telling the truth, then the popes and bishops and cardinals and the many rich priests will never enter the kingdom of God, and of course the same can be said about their followers, because they are believing in them and support them, and follow them instead of following Jesus and His teachings.
God bless you.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 04/18/08 22:02
A: I completely agree with you.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 04/19/08 17:07
A: I watched the Dalai Lama last weekend on his historic visit to the US.Youtube televises many of the videos showing aspects of his visit.it's so sad that China won't free Tibet and stop persecuting ethnic Tibetans.
Well we got snow today.The earth must be tilted further north than normal..Passover starts at sunset and then this coming Friday through Sunday (Orthodox Easter) ironicly corresponds with the dates of the crucifixion (April 25,31A.D.) calculated based on the moon-phase and two sabbaths.....I always felt very strange on the 25th of April which is the day after my Mom's birthday.I never understood why...I'm going to be more aware of it's significance ...
Are you still in a deep freeze?Haven't heard from Indie in a while either...
Name:sam •
Date: 04/19/08 20:56
A: Hi Panluna,
I do miss our friend Indie Anna, hope she is doing well, God bless her.
The Dalai Lama is a great person, a great religion leader and an example to all the world to how leaders should be. I do listen to his soft words while speaking, words mixed with a beatiful smile and filled with peace and hope, words that gives lessons to the whole world to how we should respect each other and live in harmony and reject violance.
Tibet is just one of many places around the world suffer the occupation and run by the power of other big nations.
Not long ago, and we should not forget that, that England, France, Spain, Russia, etc. occupied the rest of the world, and we should not forget that there are many countries under occupation today.
When we have more Leaders like the Dalai Lama, and less of the popes and Bushes and Putin [xxx xxx from China], etc. then the world will live in peace.
When the people stop producing and selling arms to desroy the earth, and start producing equipments that save the earth, and when they start planting crops to feed people instead of mines that kills people, and when they see the others as their brothers and sisters no matter what their bliefs are, only then the people of this earth can be called intelligent human.
You are getting Snow in Seatle, and we are getting smog in Toronto, 24c
Sunday Apr. 27 , we are driving to Florida [21 day trip], hopping the weather will be better than the last time when we had a lot of rain storms for two weeks.
God bless you.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 04/20/08 16:13
A: Enjoy a safe trip and peace be with you.....
Name:theo335 •
Date: 04/20/08 16:41
A: Q:" Watching pope Benedict XVI for several hours in the last two days, and remembering the many pictures [movies & decomenteries] about Jesus and the Emperors of Rome, make me believe that the popes do not represent Jesus, not at all, but they do represents the Romans Emperors." /Q
The Pope represents the decendant of the apostle peter Mt-16:17-19. The popes do not speak for jesus only to act on His behalf and in His name to minister to the masses (i.e: minister to the sick , drive out demons , etc..etc..) . The word of jesus is trancended to the apostle peter who above all other disciples acknowledges jesus as the son of God., and that tracendancy is tranfered to the popes who consider themselves incapable of making mistakes given to them by the son of God hence their title.
Q " The matter of fact that they do not follow Jesus' words or care about them, but they do care for sure about keeping their empire and its wealth."/Q
This is an extrodinary statement. Any person who follows the teachings of jesus and have accepted His sacrements their devotions are to Him and Him only. They are considered christian by faith regardless of their status in society or what they do.
Q "{The popes are very rich and they live in palaces, like the Emperors, and if Jesus was telling the truth, then the popes and bishops and cardinals and the many rich priests will never enter the kingdom of God, and of course the same can be said about their followers, because they are believing in them and support them, and follow them instead of following Jesus and His teachings." /Q
The popes do not have any personal wealth like many who enter the cloister life. Pope john-Paul II came from poor family in poland and rose to the papacy from many years of study. The people do not bow down and worship the pope or his ministers and believing that he is the savior is absurd.The Roman Catholics only acknowledg him as their spiritual LEADER nothing more. The popes do portray a lavish LIFESTYLE but the wealth belongs to the people who give it freely at every sunday services. Do the popes manipulate that wealth ? ...yes....Is it theirs to do so as they wish ? ...no
Name:sam •
Date: 04/21/08 0:24
A: Hi, theo335
You said; "Any person who follows the teachings of jesus and have accepted His sacrements their devotions are to Him and Him only".
1 Is Jesus a "God"?
and what about the God which Jesus devoted Himself to Him only , and prayed to Him, {He went off to the mountain TO PRAY, AND HE SPENT THE WHOLE NIGHT IN PRAYER TO GOD}, which is the same God of Abraham ,Moses and the rest worshiped, {HEAR O ISRAEL ! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD}, {YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER gods BEFORE ME}.
If you believe that Jesus is God [or part], then can we say that God or part of him] , have brothers and sister uncles aunts etc.., or they can be rejected by the church, and how can they reject them when they are mentioned in the gospels , {Is not this [Jesus] the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us? AND THEY TOOK OFFENCE AT HIM. JESUS SAID TO THEM, A PROPHET [He is talking about Himself] is not without honor except in his hometown and among HIS OWN RELATIVES and IN HIS OWN HOUSEHOLD [His mother, brothers and sisters].
2- Jesus mentioned Himself as a PROPHET in this verse, and the question to you. Was Jesus not telling the truth ?.
3- Is Jesus the son of God ?.... and the only son?
----believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
---- Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
Which of these two verses tells the truth ? , the one that came in the Bible or the one that came in the Gospel ?
Adam was God' first creation according to the Bible
{ Ge-5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;}
God created Adam first as it came in the Bible & the Gospel, and it is clear that Adam is the father of all the human race including Jesus, Adam was created and not born to a woman, but Jesus was born to a woman called Mary , and she was His mother and the mother of His brothers and sisters.
Mat- 24:35/36 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my wors will not pass away [ the words which you hear is not mine but the father'who sent me ...the words of God] .
But of that day and hour [the day and hour of judgment] NO ONE KNOWS,
NOT EVEN THE ANGELS OF HEAVEN [God's angels],
NOR THE SON [JESUS],
BUT THE FATHER ALONE [GOD ALONE].
That by itself prove that Jesus in not a God as you make of Him, and He cannot do a thing without God help. {I CAN DO NOTHING ON MY OWN INITIATIVE} And His words prove that He is not God.
{I do not seek my own will, BUT THE WILL OF HIM [GOD] WHO SENT ME}
God sent Jesus to be His messenger . {WHEN YOU LIFT UP THE SON OF MAN, THEN YOU WILL KNOW THAT I AM HE [ Jesus said : that He is the son of man, was He not telling the truth ?
God bless you.
Name:sam •
Date: 04/21/08 16:01
A: Hi again,
Dear theo335,
After reading you post, I went for search through the king James Bible for the words/names "pope & cardinal" and I did not find any !!!, so who created these names?
And the name "bishop" was mentioned 7 times In Paul letters only.
As for the name " Saint", it was mentioned only one time in the gospel:
MATTHEW 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
{I don't think that happen, otherwise such a great story was mentioned in the other gospels}
but the word saints came in the letters of Paul 61 times. and today there are more than ten thousands saints around the world.
After the death of Jesus Paul preached that Jesus is the son of God in Damascus for the first time, and Paul and his followers in Rome invented and developed the teaching of Jesus beyond it is originality.
THE SIMPLE TEACHING OF JESUS CHANGED BY THE YEARS TO BECAME A COMPLICATED PHILOSOPHICALLY, THEOLOGICALLY, MYTHOLOGICALLY, AND MAN MADE THEORETICALLY TEACHINGS.
The leaders of the churches from popes and bishops burned gospels and all the records which were written at the time of Jesus, and even killed and burned people who possess or read those books !!!, and the history of the popes and bishop those whom you call tho holiest men on earth is full killing and distructions. They killed millions of other Christians and the Jews [the inquisition] and they were in charge when the Indians in the Americas were masacred. You should read the history.
Jesus words brought to the world love and peace, and His words are the truth, so find the truth by going to him only. Paul and the popes were not with Jesus and their words cannot be trusted. there should be only Jesus and His words.
As for "other disciples acknowledges jesus as the son of God."
Of course , that make us wonder how he became a God or part of God?, Jesus never mentioned Himself as that. And you believe in the trinity, and you know well that the trinity was invented in Rome after 380+ years from Jesus death, and the Emperor of Rome who invented the trinity and the poepes and bishops there spent years debating it !!!.
WHAT ABOUT JESUS WORDS.
And Jesus mentioned Himself as the son of man 89 times in the four gospels, and mentioned himself as prophet too. You think Jesus does not know what He is, and left the other to deside for Him ?
God bless you.
Name:theo335 •
Date: 04/25/08 14:13
A: Hi Sam
I never said that Jesus was a God nor do I portray him as one, I said that the power of Jesus emanates FROM God Jn 14:6-7 an Jn 14:10-14 the one true power, Jesus cannot do anything without God's approval. Jesus mentions this many times in his parables so that the common folks can grasp what he was saying and without incurring the wrath of the authorities.The gospels tells us that Jesus is a DESCENDANT from Abraham which is known as the father of Israel and that gives him a direct blood line to the throne of Jewish nation, and not the first human on the planet . Unfortunately Jesus never wrote a book or anything by his own hand so we take his genealogy with a grain of salt.
In the end its a matter of faith.
As for the "saint " part of your argument , Jesus does not designate that title to ANYONE, since all of us are born in sin, that came about in the fourth century . Constantine just prior to the battle of milvian bridge against a major enemy in 312 A.D had a "vision" in which he saw a cross of light imposed on the sun. He interpreted that as a message from God and ordered his soldiers to paint that on their shields. They entered and WON the battle -----under the sign of the cross. The symbolism of the cross came from Constantine, and as for the "saints"---- the gospel writers were busy trying to solidify their position as the new religion in town. Constantine used this to endorse the new religion as the PRIMARY religion of Rome and all other religions to be unworthy. With this new found support, Christianity rose to power and annihilated its opposition. The titles of cardinals , popes , etc... came from the political structure of the church , it has nothing to do with Jesus or his ministry since Jesus himself condemned the political side of church or ( Jewish temple) during the second temple period and even for told its destruction. This premonition came true in 60 C.E when the roman legions under Titus destroyed Jerusalem and its temple, its been 2000 years and it has not been rebuilt.
Q "Jesus words brought to the world love and peace" /Q
Jesus did not bring the world love and peace, His ministry was a total failure by trying to convert the Jewish populace in His way of thinking. He did not succeed in any way even when he stood before them after the resurrection, no Jewish person accepts Jesus as their Saviour in His time or even today.
Jesus does not require us to defend Him on topics which He preached He does that quite well on His own.
God Bless
Name:theo335 •
Date: 04/25/08 14:20
A: Sam
Addendum :
I do read plenty of history. Thank you
Name:Sassy •
Date: 04/26/08 0:23
A: Sam - I agree with your original post here; popes are more like Roman Emperors.
Name:Sassy •
Date: 04/26/08 0:44
A: Sam, you'd noted about the popes:
"The matter of fact that they do not follow Jesus' words or care about them, but they do care for sure about keeping their empire and its wealth."
Well, while the vatican is still filthy rich, they aren't quite as rich as they used to be since they've had to pay (at least some) of the victims of all those pervy child-molesting-priests!
check out this funny site I just found:
"Pope Benedict or Emperor Palpatine?"
http://www.unsoughtinput.com/index.php/2006/12/2-7/pope-benedict-or-emperor-palpatine/
hahahaha!-
Name:sam •
Date: 04/26/08 2:38
A: Hi Sassy,
Thank you for mentioning this site.
"Both have really creepy wrinkly faces and scary smiles. This one seems pretty definite. "
-------- Ading to that, that he is like a programed robot. walks like, speaks like, Acts like, smile like and dressed like.
"Well I think that conclusively proves it the pope and Emperor Palpatine are the same person. But I doubt that it will stop Catholics from obeying him, I mean if the covering up of priests raping boys nothing will."
------ I thought that I am alone when I wrote "pope or Emperor" while I did have in my mind the other pictures too, and about the billions of dollars and the cover-up by the popes and bishops and cardinals and even by their followers whos children been mollested that to save the church and keep it {those people are brain washed for sure}. Now I do believe that there are many like us around the world who share the same views.
Dear Theo335,
It is not important only to read the books, [history or the Bible or the Gospels], but the most importanf thing in the reading is to analyse them. Analysing the book or books in a logical and scientific way, away from been using any influence, and looking for facts and separate them for the falses and myths, which the Bible and the Gospels are full of with stories beyond any logic.
Retired bishop John S . Spong [check his site], wrote:
- THE BIBLE FULL OF CONTRADICTIONA AND ERRORS.
-THE GOSPELS CANNOT BE TRUSTED TO BE RELIABLE.
I read the bible and the gospels many, many times before reading the bishop works and i came to the same conclusion, as I came to the same thinking about the pope Benedict 16.
Since the debate about Jesus tomb started I did write a lot about my work and about my findings, You can read some if you got the time, they are very interesting because they represent the opinion of my friends who brought their opinion too.
"Theological implications" --- post: "Sam & Indie's Bible coran sharing" is one of the dialogue between myself and a good friend, and well educated {catholic university} .
I will be leaving april 27 for three weeks [holiday], and I will miss all those who share with me their thoughts in this forums.
Thank you, and God bless you all.
Name:theo335 •
Date: 04/26/08 13:00
A: Hi Sam
I agree with you that analysis of the bible or any book for that matter is critical in order to understand its meaning. You know as well as I do, that the serious academic who devote their lives to bible study know and fully understand that the bible is not a book per say, it is a collection of documents that took years in the making and it reflects the times of the authors who wrote them. Can anyone say with absolute certainty that everything in the bible is a myth or a lie ?..absolutely not , its arrogant presumption to think so because we in this century do not live in the conditions they did.
In an age where empires conquered foreign lands and enslaved the populace for hundreds of years, it is only natural for the oppressed people of the times that they were looking and praying for something greater than themselves in order to bring hope for their race and bring destruction to their oppressors. The DSS and the Nag Hammadi scrolls ( Gnostic bible) are such documents which tell a different and radical view from the religious doctrine which is enforced today.
The DSS tells of an epic battle between the " Sons of light " against the "Sons of darkness" and was written ( according to carbon 14 testing) in the first century, this predated the apocrypha of john by several hundred years. The question arises was the apocalypse of john's vision influenced by the DSS ? Did he know off it's existence ? ...we'll never know.
