Name:Panluna •
Title: Prophet's Descendants •
Date posted: 04/06/07 18:17
Q: Are there any descendants of the Prophet Mohamed alive in the 21st century?And why can't Sunnis and Shiites learn to live in peace?
Name:roy •
Date: 04/07/07 16:04
A: Panluna, Romance police,
Yes there are thousands of decendants of Prophet Mohammad.The regular list of living kinship has been kept diligently by Ottoman Empire. They had special Bureucratic post to keep the lists. The decendants had special care wherever they lived, positive discrimination. They are called Seyid in general. However many of them has been living in controversal to the teaching of Mohammed and Qoran, it is not a free pass to be a good man/woman to have decendancy. You may see it in other prophets Abrahams father, Noahs son, Lut s wife. Adams son.
They have many good Theologian professors descending from prophet also.
The early muslim history had power strugles of grandsons (Hasan,Huseyin rad) and king of another state in Iraq. They had murdered the grandsons who were highly respected because of their superior religious knowledge. Siites has seperated their faith because of those fights. But Sunnis and Siites has not been very different in what they believe at the origin. The didnt fight extensively throughout history. However there were some few exeptions. They do same pilgrimage ceremony every year as others, pray same. Shiites & Sunnis love prophets grandsons and decendants equally much.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 04/07/07 16:23
A: Thank you for the answer.The Sagittarian moon was getting to me yesterday.I hope I didn't step out of line with my comment to you and canuckchick.If so, i apologise.
Name:Anchorite •
Date: 04/07/07 19:29
A: I had suspected that Ideas and genes are at most only loosely linked. I am glad to see some confirmation. What matters is the ideas. And they are available to any honest caring humble thinker.
Name:roy •
Date: 04/07/07 21:45
A: Anchorite,
Perhaps it occurs to you everybody can see that loose tie easily as you see. No it is opposite. The main seperation of belief with Shiites have stemed out from this belief. Accorrding to them every holy man has to deliver offspring to a superior religious person, who has no chance to be wrong in his teachings! When I said to a shiite man,he was surprised and denied, retreated." Abrahams father was a rebellious against God, believed in pagan gods". He says prophets geneology have been clean pious.This is written in Quran which is also Shiites book. They over value their clerics burdening them as pure, no-sin creatures similar to Pope. They held long lines infront of clerics homes to get answers to their questions. They allege too much divinity to shrines, basically tombs of holy man. Whereas a basic muslim tradition opposes this implementation strongly. It is similar to trinity to expect intercession other than God. It is condemned several times in Quran again.
Name:ASandra •
Date: 04/07/07 22:15
A: Both are Muslims, but their tribes are at war for some reason.
Name:Anchorite •
Date: 04/07/07 22:51
A: Dear Roy,
Oh sweet... You got it! Monotheism. The One whom none surpass. We touch but cannot grip. Thank you for your description. I see the Muslim better. I trust now. The comfort is welcome.
Your efforts nourrish me.
Name:Perceptions •
Date: 04/08/07 1:49
A: Roy,
What is this Hadith about, in your opinion?
Narrated Abu Huraira
Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established
(1) till two big groups fight each other whereupon there will be a great number of casualties on both sides and they will be following one and the same religious doctrine, ......
(rest editted)
(islamiCity.com)
...........-..................................
About- MONOTHEISM in Quran.
22.17: Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabeans and the Christians and the Magians and those who associate (others with Allah) -- surely Allah will decide between them on the day of resurrection; surely Allah is a witness over all things.
5.69: Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabians and the Christians whoever believes in Allah and the last day and does good -- they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.
Name:Shlomo •
Date: 04/08/07 2:55
A: ASandra; the Shiites and Sunnis have been at war over who was to be the legitimate person to take over after Mohammad died. A tribal dispute that has been going on for hundreds of years, just like Christianity and the Roman Catholic church, no different. Pathetic to say the least.
Name:roy •
Date: 04/10/07 1:55
A: Perceptions wrote;
Narrated Abu Huraira
Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established (1) till two big groups fight each other whereupon there will be a great number of casualties on both sides and they will be following one and the same religious doctrine, ......
Roy Wrote:
This is a lie alleged saying of Prophet Mohammad (sas). The future is never known by prophet unless God let him be. It is against the teaching of Quran. I can say the ayat exactly opposing it. There are even contradicting hadiths (out of which none of them trustable) that prophet never knows the future.
On the basic belief what I summarized from our Quran is that; even God does not know the future! Is it a bold claim? I think that way, because it is counter efficient if God knew everything that will happen in the future. There would have been no cause for us to be created. Why are we here on earth? For us to be tested, to deserve heaven.
God has the knowledge of all possible outcomes of human acts before it happens. In that way He knows the future. He also makes the acts to be effective reality. He creates as we act.
I can write about it hundreds of paragraphs but it is all what I want to say for now.
Noone knows the future including God. He doesnt need to know, as He is Omnipotent, can destroy anybody anytime, as He wishes.
People may or may not follow one and same religious doctrine, as time of doomsday comes closer. Why it should be that way? Does He change all established causes of Him about creation. Or He mercy the latter day people, positive favoring them for heaven reward. Why are we bad creatures?
You look at the hadith whichever way it is full with contradictions.
Perceptions,
I have no good impression on Abu Huraira. I read on a remarkable book that he was producing lie hadiths, he was warned by Hz. Aisha (rad), accusing him that “you are saying alleged words to Mohammad (sas) that we never heard from him.” He replies. “O! Aisha, you were too much occupied with doll yourself up.”
He could be such sarcastic to muslims most respected mother.
He was also accused by Hz. Omar (rad) to produce false hadiths, he was punished for that, Since he was afraid of him, until his death couldnt produce anything. He has recorded himself about Omar saying “I wouldnt be able to say these things if Omar was alive”. Omar also hold him responsible for unjustified wealth increase, after granted a post in a city. Omar reprimand him saying, “you were beggar, now you gained this much wealth with government post?”
In short he was not a trustworty man.But Mr Bukhari and Muslim made him great celebrity in their books.
It was forbidden by Prophet himself to record Mohammad’s sayings. The authors were even too silly to write this down an open contradiction what they have been doing. But the people didnt keep the oath, after 238 years they started keeping records of millions of words alleged sayings of our prophet. Only Bukhari said he collected 700.000 hadiths and choose 4000 among them to be trustable enough. Clearly thousands out of 4000 also were not trustworthy, as they included earth was flat, on the bulls horn, bull was on the fish… along with funny,as well as explicit stories about prophet (God forbid never!) Of course millions of them not possible to be told, they edited, re-edited, manupulated ,the picture of today muslims are blamed to this false fabricated hadiths. They even rule the country saudi arabia, egypt.. on this abu hurairah hadiths. Huraira was accused of lieing by prophets’ uncle Omar, son in law Ali and wife Aisha. He was not a friend of our prophet but a peasant surviving on his benevolence. Some production of false hadiths:
- Cut mustache and leave beard
- Eat with right hand only
- Dont build tombs on graves
- Women dont visit graveyards
- Kill all types of dog keep the watch dog for farm (he had farm)
- Use perfume (a perfume merchant bribery)
- Hurairah’s bribed king becomes prophet himself
- Women dress in veil
I have collected some of the daubtful pass on hadiths heard from Abu Huraria; Please not trust none of them.
#1-By Him in Whose Hand is my life. Ibn Maryam (Jesus Christ) would certainly pronounce Talbiya for Hajj or for Umra or for both (simultaneously as a Qiran) In the valley of Rauha
#2-How will you be when the son of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends amongst you and he will judge people by the Law of the Quran and not by the law of Gospel.
#3-(Khusrau king of Persia) would die and Qaisar (Ceasar King of Rome) would die; there would be no Qaisar after him, but, by one in Whose Hand is my life, you would spend their treasures in the cause of Allah.
#4-I am most akin to the son of Mary among the whole of mankind and the Prophets are of different mothers, but of one religion, and no Prophet was raised between me and him (Jesus Christ).
#5-No child is born but he is pricked by the satan and he begins to weep because of the pricking of the satan except the son of Mary and his mother. Abu Huraira then said: You may recite if you so like (the verse):" I seek Thy protection for her and her offspring against satan the accursed"
#6-The satan touches every son of Adam on the day when his mother gives birth to him with the exception of Mary and her son.
The crying of the child (starts) when the satan begins to prick him.
#7-Jesus son of Mary saw a person committing theft; thereupon Jesus said to him: You committed theft. He said: Nay. By Him besides Whom there is no god (I have not committed theft). Thereupon Jesus said: I affirm my faith in Allah It is my ownself that deceived me.
#8-None spoke in the cradle but only three (persons), Christ son of Mary, the second one the companion of Juraij. Juraij had got constructed a temple and confined himself in that. His mother came to him as he was busy in prayer and she said: Juraij. He said: My Lord, my mother (is calling me while I am engaged in) my prayer. He continued with the prayer. She returned and she came on the next day and he was busy in prayer, and she said: Juraij. And he said: My Lord, my mother (is calling me while I am engaged) in prayer, and he continued with the prayer and she went back, and then on the next day she again came and he was busy in prayer and she said: Juraij. And he said: My Lord, my mother (is calling me while I am engaged in my prayer, and he continued with the prayer, and she said: My Lord, don't give him death unless he has seen the fate of the prostitutes. The story of Juraij and that of his meditation and prayer gained currency amongst Bani Isra'il. There was a prostitute who had been a beauty incarnate. She said (to the people): If you like I can allure him to evil. She presented herself to him but he paid no heed (to her). She came to a shepherd who lived near the temple and she offered herself to him and he had a sexual intercourse with her and so she became pregnant arid when she gave birth to a child she said: This is from Juraij. So they came and asked him to get down and demolished the temple and began to beat him. He said: What is the matter? They said: You have committed fornication with this prostitute and she has given birth to a child from your loins. He said: Where is the child? They brought him (the child) and he said: just leave me so that I should observe prayer. And he observed prayer and when he finished, he came to the child. He struck his stomach and said: O boy, who is your father? lie said: He is such shepherd. So they turned towards Juraij, kissed him and touched him (for seeking blessing) and said: We are prepared to construct your temple with gold. He said. No, just rebuild it with mud as it had been, and they did that. Then there was a babe who was sucking his mother that a person dressed in fine garment came riding upon a beast. His mother said: O Allah, make my child like this one. He (the babe) left sucking and began to see towards him, and said: O Allah, don't make me like him. He then returned to the chest and began to suck the milk of his mother. He (Abu Huraira) said: I perceived as if I am seeing Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as he is explaining the scene of his sucking milk with his forefinger in his mouth and sucking that. He (Abu Huraira) further reported Allah's Apostle (may be peace upon him) as saying: There happened to pass by him a girl who was being beaten and they were saying: You have committed adultery and you have committed theft and she was saying: Allah is enough for me and He is my good Protector, and his mother said: O Allah, don't make my child like her and he left sucking the milk, and looked towards her and said: O Allah, make me like her, and there was a talk between them. She said: O with shaven head, a good-looking person happened to pass by and I said: O Allah, make my child like him, and you said: O Allah, don't make me like him, and they passed by a girl while they were beating her and saying: You committed fornication and you committed theft, and I said: O Allah, don't make my child like her, and you said: O Allah, make me like her. Thereupon he said: That person was a tyrant, and I said: O Allah, don't make me like him, and they were saying about her: You committed fornication whereas in fact she had not committed that and they were saying: You have committed theft whereas she had not committed theft, so I said: O Allah, make me like her
#9-The Last Hour would not come until the Romans would land at al-A'maq or in Dabiq. An army consisting of the best (soldiers) of the people of the earth at that time will come from Medina (to counteract them). When they will arrange themselves in ranks, the Romans would say: Do not stand between us and those (Muslims) who took prisoners from amongst us. Let us fight with them; and the Muslims would say: Nay, by Allah, we would never get aside from you and from our brethren that you may fight them. They will then fight and a third (part) of the army would run away, whom Allah will never forgive. A third (part of the army). which would be constituted of excellent martyrs in Allah's eye, would be killed ani the third who would never be put to trial would win and they would be conquerors of Constantinople. And as they would be busy in distributing the spoils of war (amongst themselves) after hanging their swords by the olive trees, the Satan would cry: The Dajjal has taken your place among your family. They would then come out, but it would be of no avail. And when they would come to Syria, he would come out while they would be still preparing themselves for battle drawing up the ranks. Certainly, the time of prayer shall come and then Jesus (peace be upon him) son of Mary would descend and would lead them in prayer. When the enemy of Allah would see him, it would (disappear) just as the salt dissolves itself in water and if he (Jesus) were not to confront them at all, even then it would dissolve completely, but Allah would kill them by his hand and he would show them their blood on his lance (the lance of Jesus Christ).
#10-Some (cooked) meat was brought to Allah Apostle and the meat of a forearm was presented to him as he used to like it. He ate a morsel of it and said, "I will be the chief of all the people on the Day of Resurrection. Do you know the reason for it? Allah will gather all the human being of early generations as well as late generation on one plain so that the announcer will be able to make them all-hear his voice and the watcher will be able to see all of them. The sun will come so close to the people that they will suffer such distress and trouble as they will not be able to bear or stand. Then the people will say, 'Don't you see to what state you have reached? Won't you look for someone who can intercede for you with your Lord' Some people will say to some others, 'Go to Adam.' So they will go to Adam and say to him. 'You are the father of mankind; Allah created you with His Own Hand, and breathed into you of His Spirit (meaning the spirit which he created for you); and ordered the angels to prostrate before you; so (please) intercede for us with your Lord. Don't you see in what state we are? Don't you see what condition we have reached?' Adam will say, 'Today my Lord has become angry as He has never become before, nor will ever become thereafter. He forbade me (to eat of the fruit of) the tree, but I disobeyed Him . Myself! Myself! Myself! (has more need for intercession). Go to someone else; go to Noah.' So they will go to Noah and say (to him), 'O Noah! You are the first (of Allah's Messengers) to the people of the earth, and Allah has named you a thankful slave; please intercede for us with your Lord. Don't you see in what state we are?' He will say.' Today my Lord has become angry as He has never become nor will ever become thereafter. I had (in the world) the right to make one definitely accepted invocation, and I made it against my nation. Myself! Myself! Myself! Go to someone else; go to Abraham.' They will go to Abraham and say, 'O Abraham! You are Allah's Apostle and His Khalil from among the people of the earth; so please intercede for us with your Lord. Don't you see in what state we are?' He will say to them, 'My Lord has today become angry as He has never become before, nor will ever become thereafter. I had told three lies (Abu Haiyan (the sub-narrator) mentioned them in the Hadith) Myself! Myself! Myself! Go to someone else; go to Moses.' The people will then go to Moses and say, 'O Moses! You art Allah's Apostle and Allah gave you superiority above the others with this message and with His direct Talk to you; (please) intercede for us with your Lord Don't you see in what state we are?' Moses will say, 'My Lord has today become angry as He has never become before, nor will become thereafter, I killed a person whom I had not been ordered to kill. Myself! Myself! Myself! Go to someone else; go to Jesus.' So they will go to Jesus and say, 'O Jesus! You are Allah's Apostle and His Word which He sent to Mary, and a superior soul created by Him, and you talked to the people while still young in the cradle. Please intercede for us with your Lord. Don't you see in what state we are?' Jesus will say. 'My Lord has today become angry as He has never become before nor will ever become thereafter. Jesus will not mention any sin, but will say, 'Myself! Myself! Myself! Go to someone else; go to Muhammad.' So they will come to me and say, 'O Muhammad ! You are Allah's Apostle and the last of the prophets, and Allah forgave your early and late sins. (Please) intercede for us with your Lord. Don't you see in what state we are?" The Prophet added, "Then I will go beneath Allah's Throne and fall in prostration before my Lord. And then Allah will guide me to such praises and glorification to Him as He has never guided anybody else before me. Then it will be said, 'O Muhammad Raise your head. Ask, and it will be granted. Intercede It (your intercession) will be accepted.' So I will raise my head and Say, 'My followers, O my Lord! My followers, O my Lord'. It will be said, 'O Muhammad! Let those of your followers who have no accounts, enter through such a gate of the gates of Paradise as lies on the right; and they will share the other gates with the people." The Prophet further said, "By Him in Whose Hand my soul is, the distance between every two gate-posts of Paradise is like the distance between Mecca and Busra (in Sham)."
#11-"None spoke in cradle but three: (The first was) Jesus, (the second was), there a man from Bani Israel called Juraij. While he was offering his prayers, his mother came and called him. He said (to himself), 'Shall I answer her or keep on praying?" (He went on praying) and did not answer her, his mother said, "O Allah! Do not let him die till he sees the faces of prostitutes." So while he was in his hermitage, a lady came and sought to seduce him, but he refused. So she went to a shepherd and presented herself to him to commit illegal sexual intercourse with her and then later she gave birth to a child and claimed that it belonged to Juraij. The people, therefore, came to him and dismantled his hermitage and expelled him out of it and abused him. Juraij performed the ablution and offered prayer, and then came to the child and said, 'O child! Who is your father?' The child replied, 'The shepherd.' (After hearing this) the people said, 'We shall rebuild your hermitage of gold,' but he said, 'No, of nothing but mud.'(The third was the hero of the following story) A lady from Bani Israel was nursing her child at her breast when a handsome rider passed by her. She said, 'O Allah ! Make my child like him.' On that the child left her breast, and facing the rider said, 'O Allah! Do not make me like him.' The child then started to suck her breast again. (Abu Huraira further said, "As if I were now looking at the Prophet sucking his finger (in way of demonstration.") After a while the people passed by, with a lady slave and she (i.e. the child's mother) said, 'O Allah! Do not make my child like this (slave girl)!, On that the child left her breast and said, 'O Allah! Make me like her.' When she asked why, the child replied, 'The rider is one of the tyrants while this slave girl is falsely accused of theft and illegal sexual intercourse."
#12-"By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, son of Mary (Jesus) will shortly descend amongst you people (Muslims) as a just ruler and will break the Cross and kill the pig and abolish the Jizya (a tax taken from the non-Muslims, who are in the protection, of the Muslim government). Then there will be abundance of money and no-body will accept charitable gifts
#13-"On the night of my Ascension to Heaven, I saw (the prophet) Moses who was a thin person with lank hair, looking like one of the men of the tribe of Shanua; and I saw Jesus who was of average height with red face as if he had just come out of a bathroom. And I resemble prophet Abraham more than any of his offspring does. Then I was given two cups, one containing milk and the other wine. Gabriel said, 'Drink whichever you like.' I took the milk and drank it. Gabriel said, 'You have accepted what is natural, (True Religion i.e. Islam) and if you had taken the wine, your followers would have gone astray.' "
#14-May God damn jewish and christians! They had the graveyards of their prophets transformed to temples.
#15-Umrah is atonement to all sins committed period from the previous umrah till next one. Hajj which one is accepted has no reward other than heaven.
#16-If a man sets off for hajj on a horse, with the expense of money earned legitimately. An angel answers to his prayer from sky; praise on you, happy one!, what you eat canonically lawful, what you ride on halal (lawful), your hajj is faultless and accepted. But if a man sets off for hajj on a horse, by spending from falsely earned Money. An angel answers; your prayer has been rejected!What you eat is illicit! What you spend is illicit! Your hajj is unaccomplished andnot eligible.
#17-The natural character, which may be altered is five; circumscision, cleansing hair on body, shorthening mustache, clipping nails, shaving armpits.
#19-Three cause exempted from continuous good deed performance after ones death. Three things are; charity, useful knowledge, and prays of children after him.
Name:roy •
Date: 04/14/07 15:08
A: "Perceptions • Date: 04/07/07 21:49 A: Roy,
What is this Hadith about, in your opinion?"
Where are you perceptions? I hav emade the comment down . what is your opinion? Did you get the reason why I have reservation on sunnat. Do you believe in hadiths? observe sunnat? I am interested how other muslims are implementing their practices over there.
