Name:yinzzzz •
Title: Read the Bible not the junk..... •
Date posted: 10/09/07 4:45
Q: Oh, c'mon man...
the Bible said Jesus arose n went back to heaven. So wut's this all about??? Tomb? Corpse? Dead Body? Son? Wife....??? Man... That's just a kewl way of building an empire of money...lol
Name:OneGod •
Date: 10/10/07 21:45
A: Yeah the rising to heaven thing really has made a lot of money.
Name:sam •
Date: 10/10/07 22:09
A: Dear yinzzzz,
The bible said a lot, but is all what was said in the Bible was true ?.
RELIGIONS UNDER THE SCOPE .
Part one.
The followings are analysis for the three major religions, JUDAISM, CHRISTIANITY AND ISLAM from the LOGICAL & SCIENTIFIC points.
To start with this analysis.
- First, we should accept the fact that all these three religions believe in GOD as the CREATOR, which make them differ from the many other religion as BUDDHISM and HINDUISM etc.
- Second, we should believe that GOD whom we believe in, sent many MESSENGERS/PROPHETS *, and we believe in them as true ones.
*[ Christianity which was evolved after the death of Jesus believed that Jesus is the son of God, and then it comes the trinity formula after 385 years which makes Jesus God in His three parts, “the father, the son and the holy ghost -one God”.
- Third, we should believe in the MESSAGES which the messenger brought from GOD.
- Fourth, we should believe that GOD is PERFECT, and HIS MESSAGES are TRUE, and they do not hold within them any FALSE or UNTRUE information.
- Fifth, we should believe that our soul will not vanish after death, and we are going to be judged.
Also, we should understand that the messengers/prophets came in different time in history, and the messages which was sent with them came with the LANGUAGE and the KNOWLEDGE that can be understood by the people of those period of time.
And we should know that none of the messengers/prophets, wrote their messages.
QUESTION. WHO WROTE THE BOOKS?.
A- The Bible (O.T.) Consist of 39 books, and the (N.T.) of 27 books.
Here are few lines from what I read about that subject, “Some believe that these books are THE WORD OF GOD, and others believe the Bible is God’s letter to humanity collected into 66 books written by 40 DIVINELY INSPIRED writers. These writers come from all walks of life (i.e., kings to fishermen) and spans over a period of 1,500 years or more. Also we read this, “The Bible itself tells us that it is GOD WHO IS THE AUTHOR of His book.”.
When we read, “THE WORD OF GOD....DIVINELY INSPIRED....GOD IS THE AUTHOR”, that makes all these books and every word in them are holy, since all belong to God, and also they suppose to be perfect and pure, and that means they do not hold any mistake or wrong information or hate etc. , but the truth can show us that is not always the case. While the laws that in the Bible [the commandments] which were given to Moses and some stories are real and true, and the words which Jesus spoke represent the truth, but many others wrote stories and letters cannot be accepted to be the word of God or an inspiration from Him, even if they were attached to the holy books.
THE FACTS:
1- Most of the books [the Bible] were written by many, and some never met Abraham or Moses, and there were many Gospels but only four were chosen and the rest destroyed [Judas, Barnabas, Mary, etc. all those who been with Jesus and served HIM], while they kept Mark & LUKE the students and the friends of Paul and who never met or saw Jesus .
2- The books were re-written many time, and some words/phrases were changed or switched to bring the writers opinions.
-Here is my finding:
John 9:35 “...THE SON OF MAN” in the NASB [translated from the original language]
John 9:35 “...THE SON OF GOD” in the King James Bible.
Changing the word MAN which Jesus spoke, to the word God is not right, and it is a plain forgery. Let us after that read what the retired Bishop John S. Spong wrote:
- THE BIBLE FULL OF CONTRADICTIONS AND ERRORS.
- THE GOSPELS CANNOT BE TRUSTED TO BE RELIABLE.
When someone who hold as such a high position, and well educated to know what he is talking about [the bishop wrote 14 books, and some were the best seller], that make any person with free mind think twice before accepting these books as holy ones.
The Bishop was not the only one who discover these facts, but there many others.
Pat wrote:
Yes the bible is full of contradictions. Here is a list of contradictions and curious things in the Old and New Testaments. [there are more than 2000 contradictions and errors]
1- At least two Creation stories appear in the Bible, and they disagree. The first is in Genesis 1:1 to 2:3, the second in the remainder of Chapter 2.
In the first version, God (Elohim in the manuscripts) created men & women on the same day (1:27). subsequent to the creation of all animals (1:25). In the second version, God (Jehovah) created Adam first (2:7). then animals & birds (2:19). then Eve (2:22). In the first version. trees appeared before man (1:11): in the second. the world was barren of vegetation at the time of man's creation (2:5). and plantlife was created later (2:8-9).
Compare these with Genesis 5:1-2, a third creation story, which strongly suggests the simultaneous creation of man & woman. It states that at the time of the creation of men and women. God blessed them and called them man (in the Hebrew text, adam).
Most translators and Bible scholars candidly admit the differences in the Creation stories. and call the first two the Priestly and the Yahwehist versions. (In particular, see the New American Bible and its fine commentary.) The versions differ strongly in texture and language as #ell as content. ln some translations, however, verb tenses are subtly altered to conceal the problems.
(This item is clearest in the New International Bible and the Revised KJ Bible.)2- Genesis 6:4 The Nephilim (Giants) lived on earth prior to the Flood.
Genesis 7:23 Only Noah and his family, and the animals on the Ark, survived the Flood.
Numbers 13:33 Long after the Flood, the Nephilim (Giants) still lived.
And the list goes on to,
139- Isaiah 17:1 A prophecy of the city of Damascus. It will become a heap of ruins. But Damascus, the capital of Syria, thrives today. one of the oldest cities in the world, and has been continuously inhabited since its founding. It has never been a heap of ruins.
140- Isaiah 34:8-10 A prophecy that the land of Edom (which borders the Dead Sea and the Gulf of Aqaba) will become burning pitch . The streams will become pitch. the soil will become brimstone. it will lay waste for generations. none will pass through it forever, and the smoke from the burning will go up forever. But this has never happened, and people continue to pass through Edom to this day.
141- Jeremiah 9:11 A prophecy that Jerusalem and the cities of Judah will become heaps of ruins, desolate, without inhabitants. Neither Jerusalem nor Judah have ever been desolate and uninhabited for any period.
And after came,
180- I Chronicies 16:30 The earth does not move through space.
181- Matthew 4:8; Luke 4:5 Also, two verses that suggest the earth is flat.
202- (KJ version & New International version:)
Luke 14:26 Jesus demanded that his disciples hate their parents.
Matthew 10:35-36 Jesus said he came to turn children against their parents.
All what I can say is , “books which hold so much error and contradictions cannot be THE WORD OF GOD or INSPIRED BY GOD or....GOD IS THE AUTHOR.
I hope after reading my post you go back and the Bible again, and use the logic and sciece to find out the truth. Never follow blindly, Jesus told that those who follow the blinds will fall into the PIT, plus many other things.
Part two will come later on.
Name:sam •
Date: 10/12/07 12:42
A: Dear yinzzzz,
Here is the part two:
(The story of Abraham family in Genesis)
Reading GENESIS , I found the story of creation which tells us that the grass and other creatures came before the creation of the sun, and the sun , the moon and the stars were created after the earth, is not acceptable from the point of logic or science. God knows the truth of His creation, and will never tell false stories, or give his people the wrong visions. Anyhow there are billions and among them well educated ones who believe those are the words of God/ or inspired by HIM .
Another story followed the creation, the story of Abraham, and here the summary:
- And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram TO BE HIS WIFE. [another Bible “ to be His concubine], (Abraham was 85 years old)
- And Abram was fourscore and six years old, when Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram. (Here Abraham was 86 year old)
- And Ishmael his son was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin. ( Here Ishmael was 13 and the first born son to Abraham)
- And Abraham was an hundred years old, when his son Isaac was born unto him. (Abraham now is 100 years old when Isaac was born, and at this time Ishmael was 100-86=14 years old.)
- And the child grew, and was weaned: and Abraham made a great feast the same day that Isaac was weaned. ( it is known that the weaning of the child will be at the age of 2. ( that makes the age of Abraham 102, and Isaac 2 , and Ishmael 16)
- Wherefore she [Sarah] said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be HEIR with my son, even with Isaac. ( Here the story brings jealousy, selfishness and hate, and that cannot be attributed to God, in the sight of God there no poor or rich, no master or slave, and God will not agree to what Sarah done to Hagar and Ishmael, but the hate towards them and their descendants are still practiced all the time by the believer in this book )
- And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle/skin of water, and gave it unto Hagar, PUTTING IT ON HER SHOULDER, AND THE CHILD [ISHMAEL] , and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba. And the water was spent in the bottle, and she CAST [throw the child- in another bible] THE CHILD UNDER THE SHRUBS.
Here the child is at the age of 16. At that age no one will call the 16 years old young man a child. At that age a young man can marry and have a family, and of course he can walk and no need for his mother to carry him. At that age the mother cannot throw/cast her son under the shrubs , also at that age the mother cannot carry the 16 years old son + the food + the water, and walk in the wilderness for any lent of time. The story cannot be correct or right, but it was made up by the people of Sarah who hatted Hagar and her son.
- And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction. (God gave Ishmael the name)
- 17:7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. (That came after the birth of Ishmael and before Isaac was born)
- And AS FOR ISHMAEL , I have heard thee: Behold, I HAVE BLESSED HIM, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. (How can people hate Ishmael while God gave him HIS blessings -and many times?).
- And God was with the lad [Ishmael]; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer. (God was with Him, and the others hated him )
But we read after
- And he [Ishmael] will be like a MOUNTAIN ASS ass among men; his hand will be against every man and every man's hand against him, and he will keep his place against all his brothers. ( in another bible WILD ASS, and in another WILD MAN etc., and we see here the mentioning of BROTHERS, but we know that Ishmael has only one brother , Isaac.)
Can we believe that God will accept to call anyone such names in the first place? And what then about the one whom been blessed by HIM, and be with HIM. .
This is just one of the many wrong stories which were written in the Bible and attributed to God, and that cannot be accepted by any honest man.
Name:sam •
Date: 10/16/07 20:52
A: Hi yinzzzz,
Part three (THE WORD OF GOD, WORDS OF JESUS, THE WORD OF TRUTH).
Jesus said:
He who does not love me does not keep My words * ; AND THE WORD WHICH YOU HEAR IS NOT MINE, BUT THE FATHER’S WHO SENT ME. J-14:24
(Jesus words here holds within all the truth, and they are very simple and easy to understand even by a child, and they tell us the following:
1- To keep His words and follow them.
2- because these words are the words of God, and not His words.
3- God sent Him, and that makes Jesus a Messenger from God to carry and spread His words.
4- the Father’s?. Here we see that Jesus did not say My Father, and that means His father HERE IS NOT [father/son], but God the Father of all. The following verses prove that.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the sons of God. Mat- 5:9
The son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God. L-3:38ADAM THE SON OF GOD...JESUS THE SON OF GOD...The peacemakers... THE SONS OF GOD. Are we all the children of God?, Is HE our creator?.
The new testament book which I am reading contains the 4 Gospels [ total of 168 pages] and the Acts and the letters of Paul [total of 205 pages]. The facts when we look at the contents of these books, we see that the words of Jesus when put together will take a very small part of this book , there are more words spoken by Paul and the others than Jesus. And we should not forget that there are many other Gospel [Mary, Thomas, Philip, Barnabas, Judas and the Gospel of truth which were destroyed by the churches, and it was a miracle that they been discovered after more than 1700 years to bring the truth].
The questions here is, whom we should trust ?, Jesus words or the words of Paul and the others?.
The answer is simple, since we know that Jesus is the messenger, and His word is from God, then we can say without any doubt that we should trust Jesus. Here what Jesus said:
J-7:17 If anyone is willing to do his will, he will know of the TEACHING, whether it is OF GOD or whether I speak from MYSELF.
- People who had clear mind will understand what Jesus is Saying here, and what He is teaching them is from GOD and not from Himself. It does not need a genius to understand what Jesus meant. And He said:
J- 8:42 ....I have not even come on My own initiative, BUT HE SENT ME.
J-11:42 ....I said it, so they may believe THAT YOU SENT ME.
J- 17:3 That they may know YOU, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST WHOM YOU HAVE SENT.
J- 17:14 I have given them YOUR WORD...
MA- 10:18 Why do you call ME good? NO ONE IS GOOD EXCEPT GOD ALONE.
L- 22:42 ..... YET NOT MY WILL, BUT YOURS BE DONE.
M - 7:21 Not everyone who says to ME, ‘LORD’,’LORD’, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does THE WILL OF ‘ MY FATHER’ WHO IS IN HEAVEN.
M-22:37 And he said to him, YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD with all your heart, and all your soul, and with all your mind.
- love your lord, your God, and He did not say love Me.
M-23:9 Do you call anyone on earth your father; for one is your father, HE WHO IS IN HEAVEN.
M-24:36 But of that day and hour no one knows, NOT EVEN THE ANGELS OF HEAVEN, NOR THE SON, BUT THE FATHER ALONE.
MA-6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of MARY, and brother of JAMES and JOSES and JUDAS and SIMON? Are not his sisters here with us? and they took offense at him.
MA-6:4 JESUS said to them, A PROPHET is not without honor except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in his own household.
- In the first verse (6:3) we understand that Jesus was offended by his brothers and sisters (took offence at HIM); then in the second verse (6:4) Jesus mentioning Himself clearly as a ‘PROPHET’(a prophet without honor except...and in his own household).
J-1:51 And he said to him, truly, truly, I say to you, you will see the heavens opened and the angels of GOD ascending and descending on the SON OF MAN. J-4:34 JESUS said to them (the Disciples), MY FOOD IS TO DO WILL OF HIM WHO SENT ME AND TO ACCOMPLISH HIS WORK.
J-5:27 And HE GAVE HIM AUTHORITY to execute judgment, BECAUSE HE IS THE SON OF MAN.
J-5:30 I CAN DO NOTHING ON MY OWN INITIATIVE. As I hear, I judge; and my judgment is just, BECAUSE I DO NOT SEEK MY OWN WILL, BUT THE WILL OF HIM WHO SENT ME.
J-5:31 If I alone testify about myself, my testimony is not true.
J-5:32 There is another who testifies of me, and I know that the testimony which he gives about me is true.
J-5:44 how can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and YOU DO NOT SEEK THE GLORY THAT IS FROM THE ONE AND ONLY GOD?
J-6:14 Therefore when the people saw the sign which he had performed, they said, THIS IS TRULY THE PROPHET WHO IS TO COME INTO THE WORLD .
J-7:28 Then JESUS cried out in the temple, teaching and saying, you both know me and know where I am from; and I HAVE NOT COME OUT OF MYSELF, BUT HE WHO SENT ME IS TRUE, WHOM YOU DO NOT KNOW.
-You know Me, but you do not know GOD.
J-8:28 So JESUS said, WHEN YOU LIFT UP THE SON OF MAN, THEN YOU WILL KNOW THAT I AM HE, and I do nothing on my own initiative, BUT I SPEAK THESE THINGS AS THE FATHER TAUGHT ME.
J-8:54 JESUS answered, if I glorify myself, my glory is nothing; IT IS MY FATHER WHO GLORIFY ME, OF WHOM YOU SAY, HE IS OUR GOD ;.
- Whom you say, HE IS OUR GOD, HE who glorify Me. Because if I glorify Myself, MY GLORY IS NOTHING.
J-13:13 YOU CALL ME TEACHER AND LORD; AND YOU ARE RIGHT, FOR SO I AM.
- Jesus tells them, they are right in what they calls Him, because HE IS A TEACHER and Lord, and not grater than the one who sent Him.
J-13:16 TRULY, TRULY, I SAY TO YOU, a slave is not greater than his master, NOR IS ONE WHO SENT GREATER THAN THE ONE WHO SENT HIM.
J-14:1 Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in GOD, believe ALSO IN ME.
J-14:31 But so that the world may know that I love the father, I DO EXACTLY AS THE FATHER COMMANDED ME.
If we look at the messages which were given to us by Jesus, we will find them telling us two things:
1- About the one who sent Him GOD
HE SENT ME....HE WHO SENT ME IS TRUE....TAUGHT ME.... COMMANDED ME....YOUR WORD... HIS WILL...SENT ME TO ACCOMPLISH HIS WORK........ HE IS OUR GOD.... THE ONLY TRUE GOD....THE ONE AND ONLY GOD.... HE WHO IS IN HEAVEN.... NO ONE IS GOOD EXCEPT GOD ALONE....etc.
2- About Himself as a messenger from GOD.
I DO EXACTLY AS THE FATHER [GOD] COMMANDED ME....NOR IS ONE WHO SENT GREATER THAN THE ONE WHO SENT HIM....THE SON OF MAN, THEN YOU WILL KNOW THAT I AM HE.... I HAVE NOT COME OUT OF MYSELF....I CAN DO NOTHING ON MY OWN INITIATIVE....BECAUSE HE IS THE SON OF MAN.... etc.
These messages are true, and tells us That Jesus is not God or the son of God [father/son], the son of God idea came after His death by Paul, and the trinity formula came from Rome after 380 years and was the creation of the Roman Emperor Constantine. Both came to attract the Greeks and the Romans to Join the churches, since those people believe in multiple gods and sons and daughters to the gods. And to prove that Jesus is not God or his son, I will bring what Jesus said:
J-13:16 Truly, truly, I say to you, A SLAVE IS NOT GREATER THAN HIS MASTER, NOR IS ONE WHO IS SENT (Jesus) GREATER THAN THE ONE WHO SENT HIM (God).
- Jesus compare Himself to God, as a slave to his master. From that we understand that Jesus cannot be regarded as God.
Mat- 12:32 WHOEVER SPEAKS A WORD AGAINST THE SON OF MAN (Jesus), IT SHALL BE FORGIVEN HIM; BUT WHOEVER SPEAKS AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT (God), IT SHALL NOT BE FORGIVEN HIM, either in this age or the age to come.
- I Jesus is the God, then logically speaking any word against Him shall not be forgiven , and while the words against Him shall be forgiven then that prove that He is not God.
WHO KNOWS JESUS BEST?
The people who walked with him and heard His voice, and those who has no other benefits except been seeking his teaching and wisdom or the one who never been with Him but they want to benefits from the new religion, as Paul and the Romans?.
Here are the words of His close followers:
Mat-21:10/11 When He had entered Jerusalem, all the city was stirred, saying, WHO IS THIS ? And the crowds were saying, THIS IS THE PROPHET JESUS, form Nazareth in Galilee .
- He is known to His people who been with Him and followed Him as the PROPHET JESUS, an not as the son of God Jesus, and not as the God Jesus.
Every time I come to try to defend Jesus and His words against what been related to Him wrongly on the forums of the National Geographic and the vision, People come back to defend themselves and their ideas by bringing the words of Paul from his letters.
* IF WE REALLY LOVE JESUS WE SHOULD KEEP HIS WORD.
So I find it necessary to analyze the works of Paul, to come to the truth, and that will come in Part four
God bless you.
Name:Anchorite •
Date: 02/02/08 1:54
A: Everyone knows the Bible editors were especially careful to screen out junk right
