Name:JAL128 •
Title: The Christian Cover-up •
Date posted: 03/05/07 18:50
Q: These findings just strengthen my theory that Christians in the past have tried very hard to minipulate their religion to fit the leaders. For years Christians have killed anyone who "opposed" their religion. If you look at what the high priests did to the Pagans; its a prime example.
Those Christians created a whole new group of Christians....naive ones. I do not mean to offend them in anyway, but its true. These new Christians follow their leaders blindly in "faith".
These same people follow their Holy teachers without asking any questions and all together avoiding the gaps in the stories of the bible.
What about the first 30 years of Jesus' life, every Jewish boy was to keep a journal of his life.....where did it go? Also, to believe that Jesus did not marry....thats absolutely ridiculous....and for him not to have children....thats sinful. People are expected to populate the earth according to "god"
People need to realize that the Bible was written by humans...it was not written by god himself. It was also handled by many years of corrupted clergys throughout history......In fact women were almost wrote out of the bible...are you telling me thats the only thing "holy men" wrote out of the bible.
You are naive to think that humans in the past didnt make the mistake of editing the bible to suit themselves.
JAL, Amery, WI
Name:Wes Boll •
Date: 03/05/07 18:52
A: Hey,where are the Bones and who buried them in 1980,surely we didn't lose an entire family,this should be fun to watch!!!!!!!!!!!!
Name:JAL128 •
Date: 03/05/07 18:53
A: i agree
Name:vegasvickie •
Date: 03/05/07 19:03
A: I agree with you.
Name:Wes Boll •
Date: 03/05/07 19:09
A: Hey, if any of you Indiana Jones Guys sitting over there in the sand with a shovel, you got an answer for a poor old bible man from Kansas as to who,how,and where are the BONES!! If they are lost I hope you were not the expert supervisor in charge,might want to dig yourself a deep sand hole and crawl in it !!!!! Hey TED COPPLE, watched you in the 70"s on Nightline after the Iran Crap, how are you missing this question or do you know something I don't!!!! Ted, where are the bones!!!!
Name:abefroman •
Date: 03/05/07 20:51
A: What is funny is people will cry "fraud" whenever science is used to understand something like the Jesus Tomb, evolution or the Shroud of turin. They then try to tell you Noah had dinosaurs on the ark. Science = wrong. Blind faith = right! It is maddening
Name:KRS •
Date: 03/05/07 21:38
A: Actually, Jal, your position requires as much faith as mine; a lot of what you are citing as fact is actually supposition on the basis of your philosophical beliefs without any independent verification.
Abefroman, you're arguing strawman, and Ad. Hom., which is somewhat useless.To say science has proven this is the tomb of Christ is a vast overstatement; I'd say the same on the rest.
Name:robin •
Date: 03/05/07 23:20
A: JAL128--awesome!!! The bible was written by politicians is how I look at it, they took certain books and threw away the rest. Christians are the best cover-uppers in the world.
Name:starlight64 •
Date: 03/06/07 8:35
A: Jal,
I agree with much of what you said. Especially that the bible was written by humans And edited by Church officials.
I do however consider myself a Christian. Although Traditional Christian;s might say otherwise.
I do believe that Christ was resurrected and ascended to heaven. But like someone in this show said: Who is to say that the ascension was not a spiritual one? And as per tradition ... his family took his physical body and buried it in the family tomb?
Different people interpret the bible in different ways.
I know in my heart that Jesus was put on the earth for a specific reason. I truly believe in the Crucifixion, the Resurrection, and that Jesus was the son of God.
But that does not mean that I am going to take every single written word in the bible at literal face value!
If anything, I am excited! I am happy! I am ecstatic at the possibility that we might be able to say: Ah ha! He did exist! He was real! He is real! and here is the proof!! I know that some may still try to deny the spiritual aspect of Jesus but no one can make someone believe this. They just have to know and feel it themselves. But if we can prove the tangible, and physical part........ I think that is Awesome!
Name:mjva •
Date: 03/06/07 9:01
A: The bones have been reburied and the IAA knows where they are. I don't think it's a secret. But they are saying it is sacriledge to dig them up again. I say fooey. On with the investigation.
Name:NormDoering •
Date: 03/06/07 11:43
A: JAL, Amery, WI wrote:
"For years Christians have killed anyone who 'opposed' their religion."
Every religion does that. In fact, these days Middle Eastern Islam is worse, they have blasphemy and a apostate laws were the penalty is death.
I've got a review of the show up here on my blog:
http://normdoering.blogspot.com
I'm doubtful, but willing to keep an open mind about the possibility they did find the New Testament Jesus.
Name:QuebecIndieAnna •
Date: 07/22/12 3:02
A: .
July 21st 2012
Hi Sam,
As I said, I would like to keep the Jonah page for discussion of the archaeological, scientific aspects of the Tabor/Jacobovici research.
The Jonah drawing "re-dates", if you will, when the earliest "resurection discussions" took place. As such, it is à propos to speak of the "kidnapping by Paul" of early Church theology.
I can see how you would wish to discuss Tabor's Acts Of The Apostles work on my Jonah page of this Forum.
But, again, I ask that you keep my Jonah page for scientific discussion only of the tomb, the boxes and inscriptions.
I ask that you use this page, or another one of your choosing, if this one is not what you are looking for, to continue your discussion of the middle chapters of the ACTS OF THE APOSTLES.
So, if it is okay, I'll respond to your "Tabor-Peter-James-Paul" post here.
Well, lemme go grab my dusty Jerusalem Bible, the one I had with me when I was in the Middle-East. I need to make sure that what I say about the Book of Acts is accurate.
Hang on a second ...
... Okay. So, Acts chapter 15 seems to be the text that covers the big argument between Paul and James.
As for the year? I thought it was in 45. The Internet says 50, 48, toward the end of the 5th decade (the end of the forties).
This is Tabor's area of expertise. If you are reading him as your source, you are on a good track.
Now that I have rechecked my notes, I will better understand what you have to say about Paul.
Also, I knew that the TV program, Joan Of Arcadia, and its representing God as a common human being would go against your way of thinking.
The writer was asked why she chose to call her divine message 'God'; she replied that she wanted the to go one step 'up' from Moses, Jesus and Mohammed, so that she would not be seen as 'favouring' a denomination. She is probably aware of the Muslim view that God is 'above' human representation.
...Because of my Iroquoi roots, my Native Canadian roots, I come from a culture that sees God 'in' creation, in the rivers, in the forests, in the seasons... I do not see the offense as you see it.
Native cultures in Canada teach 'submission' to Nature, Her rivers, her forests... In Muslim belief, it is my understanding that God is an entity that is far 'above' from man, or 'far removed' from human form.
If it is any help, the writer of Joan Of Arcadia is not trying to present a view of God; her actual goal is to encourage youg people to be their best selves.
When you mention Christmas movies, with angels, and says that your family enjoys these movies, I understand you very well. We like the same kinds of sow at Christmas time.
If you decide to watch more of the show, Joan Of Arcadia, I invite you to see that encouraging young people to be the best they can be is the real focus of the story.
So, the differences between the theology of the Jerusalem Church in the 30s & 40s, and how Paul began to change that with the Council spoken of in Acts 15, is probably what Tabor is speaking of in the article by Tabor that you cite.
I am interested in your reaction to scholarship on the change brought on my Paul and as reported in the book of Acts.
Indie
.
Name:sam •
Date: 07/23/12 23:18
A: Dear Indie,
Thank you for your post. I open the New Testament book and I read "Acts 15", and all what I see in is the story of many people, meeting, discussing/debating, traveling, agreeying and disagreeying, and many opinions, etc., etc.
There is not even one word from the words which Jesus spoke or teaches.
Moses, God , names were mentioned, and Jesus too, when it say in 15:11 "But we believe that WE ARE SAVED THROUGH THE GRACE OF THE LORD JESUS...." {That is from Paul's teachings}
Those are the words of Peter. Paul and Barnabas and James and Simon, everyone brought his opinion and philosophy,after that we do not see the words of Jesus !!!!
Dear Indie, all the people in the last 2000 years did talk as much as they want, and all the discoveries, from tombs , bones, shrouds, and all the experts, they might find a lot of historical evidence to many things and answer many questions, but all that will not change the fact that Jesus can be known and understood only by his own words which hold all the truth.
If it came in the Gospels , "And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. Mt. 28:17" - Also "worshipped Him" came many times, but did ever Jesus asks the people to worship Him ????.
"And Jesus in answer said to him, It has been said in the Writings, Give worship to the Lord your God, and be his servant only. Luke 4:8"
Jesus- He spent the whole night in PRAYER TO GOD."
That means He worshipped God, [GOD ALONE - THE ONLY TRUE GOD - THE ONE WHO SENT ME} and saying in the Gospels, those books which been written by anonymous people that the people worsipped Jesus as God is false, and it is the opinion of those who want to bring Jesus as son of god and god.
God does not need to come to the level of human to do His wills. Did you forget that God created the whole universe alone whitout the need to Angels or sons.
There was no son of god when the universe was created, and God was alone.
Indie you said:
"...Because of my Iroquoi roots, my Native Canadian roots, I come from a culture that sees God 'in' creation, in the rivers, in the forests, in the seasons... I do not see the offense as you see it. "
As I understand, the Native American see God in the eagle and the wolf !.
The Indian in Asia see God in cow, rat, snake, and the Chineese worship Buddha as a creator !!!!.
In the history of humans on earth, always wondered about their own creation and the creation of everything around them, and one of the smart among them told the others that the sun is our god because he thought that as a great power, and the sun is woshipped, another come with moon and the moon was worshipped, and the fire was worshipped and the snakes and the cow, and even they make their own god , statues from stones and wood and gave them names and worshipped them !!!!.
And GOd sent many messengers and prophets with His messages, but people seams to change these messages and follow their elders teachings and even they bring the messengers of God to God level, and at last they create a man as God.
The Quran say: " AND WE CERTAINLY SENT INTO EVERY NATION A MESSENGER, [saying] ,"WORSHIP ALLAH...." 16:36
"AND WE DID NOT SEND ANY MESSENGER EXCEPT [SPEAKING] IN THE LANGUAGE OF HIS PEOPLE...." 14:4
In the modern history [the last 5000 years] no one can deny the many messengers, from Noah to Muhammad. and all those came with a similar messages, and they are to woship God the creator alone and not to use idol in any shape or form in assosiation with HIM.
YOU SHALL NOT MAKE FOR YOURSELF AN IDOL, OR ANY LIKENESS OF WHAT IS IN HEAVEN ABOVE OR ON THE EARTH BENEATH OR IN THE WATER UNDER THE EARTH. Second commandment.
Dear Indie,
You tell me the truth.
Are you a Christian ?.
Do you believe in your Bible ?.
Seeing God 'in' creation that is what led people in the past to worship things from the creation, the sun , the moon, the fire etc.
"Native cultures in Canada teach 'submission' to Nature, Her rivers, her forests" . Do you Indie give your submission to the nature and the creation, or to God who created the creation ?
"In Muslim belief, it is my understanding that God is an entity that is far 'above' from man, or 'far removed' from human form"
And you are 100% right
"No man has seen God at any time; the only Son, who is on the breast of the Father, he has made clear what God is." John 1:18
Jesus [the son of man] did not see God, and He worshipped God alone.
God bless you.
Also in the Bible - "No one saw God and lived."
Name:sam •
Date: 08/12/12 21:13
A: Hi Indie,
I brought this letter to this page because it is a part of "The Christian cover-up".
From 'youtube':
The Gospel of Judas - Bart Ehrman & Darrell Bock
"The reappearance of the Gospel of Judas will rank among the greatest finds from Christian antiquity and is without doubt the most important archaeological discovery of the past 60 years. What will make this gospel ...."
Of course, 'Jesus family tomb' is another one. Not forgetting the many other findings.
Indie, please try to read the comments too.
Few lines from this video:
- There is a higher God than the creator.
- The laughing Jesus ?.
- The true God is beyond this world. [That is what the Muslims believe]
- Judas is not the bad guy, but the good guy who understand Jesus.
- Judas the most hated person in the world, turn to be after this Gospel discovery , is the closest decsiple to Jesus and the most trusted one.
Dear Indie, by the way, prof. Bart Ehrman was invited to come to Switzerland to validate the authenticity of the new discovered Gospel.
After the discovery of this Gospel , a forums was open at the National Geographic site, and I participated in this forums until the end, and I believe that you came to it too.
I can see that people accepting blindly what been told by the churches, and millions of them never used the logic to come to the truth, but I cannot understand how that so many well educated people who knows that their books full of contradictions and errors accept them as their holy books, and regards these books as the words of God, while knowing that those who wrote wrote them are unknown , and never been eyewitness to the events which they come to write about !.
God bless you.
Name:sam •
Date: 08/12/12 22:40
A: Dear Indie,
This is another video from 'youtube':
The lost Gospels
Documentary presented by Anglican priest Pete Owen Jones * which explores the huge number of ancient Christian texts that didn't make it into the New Testament. Shocking and challenging, these were works in which Jesus didn't die, took revenge on his enemies and kissed Mary Magdalene on the mouth - a Jesus unrecognisable from that found in the traditional books of the New Testament.
* Prof. Bart Ehrman took part in this video.
Pete travels through Egypt and the former Roman Empire looking at the emerging evidence of a Christian world that's very different to the one we know, and discovers that aside from the gospels of Mark, Matthew, Luke and John, there were over seventy gospels, acts, letters and apocalypses, all circulating in the early Church.
Through these lost Gospels, Pete reconstructs the intense intellectual and political struggles for orthodoxy that was fought in the early centuries of Christianity, a battle involving different Christian sects, each convinced that their gospels were true and sacred.
273 likes, 21 dislikes
God bless you.
Name:QuebecIndieAnna •
Date: 08/15/12 17:48
A: .
Wednesday August 15th 2012
Hello Sam,
Above are 3 longs posts by yourself.
Time will not permit my addressing all the subjects..
My answers here will only 'fly over' your 3 posts.
I watched the video your asked me to watch, entitled "The Gospel Of Judas".
Two identical versions of the documentary seem to have been made by National Geographic :
- one narrated by an American, in Youtube clips identified as
Gosple of Judas 1/6,
Gosple of Judas 2/6,
Gosple of Judas 3/6,
Gosple of Judas 4/6 (this one not available) ,
Gosple of Judas 5/6,
Gosple of Judas 6/6.
A 2nd version, narrated by a British actor, is in 9 parts.
What is meant by the declaration of authenticity :
- for me, that which is 'authentic' is its age;
- the carbon 14 test shows the codex to be a true antiquity;
- as for how it compares to the Bible Gospels, it does not compare;
Sam, even Augustine lived for years in a community that preached a 'secretive', "we-know-more-than-you-know" kind of 'school of thought'.
The stories of Jesus in the Bible show a teacher who actually got angry with those who would put rules, laws, and rituals before simple love of the human being before them.
Children tell each other stories and create little gangs and have members of their gangs;
they build 'forts' with twigs and branches and have the members of their 'gang' say a secret password in order to gain access to the 2 by 3 square feet of dirt in the woods near their home;
they tell each other secrets and when a fight breaks out and some kid goes running home with a bloody nose, we adults have trouble understanding the intricacies of the social structure our kids have created on a single Saturday morning.
We parents rush out to the little fort our children have built in the 'woods' on the edge of our back yard, and we try to figure out which of our children crossed the line and thought it was okay to bump little Jimmy a little too hard on the nose, cause he forgot the password to be admitted into the 'fort'.
A week goes by and the following Saturday, to our amazement, the entire social structure of the gangs our kids create has changed completely, and now Jimmy is the one who is in charge and now it is little Johnny who is crying.
My brain is not obsessive enough to want to wade through the apocrypha to try to find which fragment of a sentence might confirm or discount this or that. I rely on others to do that for me.
The exception was with the bone-box inscriptions.
I actually did a lot of reading on them....
As for the Native Canadian concept of divinity and the Islamic concept of divinity :
- I did not share that with you so you could try to coner me, using your socratic logic, into trying to 'defend' to you my belief while staying inside your paradigm of religious belief;
- I shared with you an element of Native Canadian concept of divinity so that you would stop trying to get me into a little box of belief, worded with your paradigm of beliefs and using your vocabulary;
- at some point, you must be willing to believe me when I give you what my credo is; I gave you what my credo is : treat others with the same consideration I wish them to treat me with. The Bible says 'love thy neighbour as thyself'.
I am a member of a society that was brought up Catholic.
Many of us no longer set foot inside a Church anymore.
Like Professor Ehrman, I too put text analysis on a pedestal, but second to love my neighbour as myself.
I believe all ancient writings should be analysed using the historico-critical method.
I watched for the first time today the National Geographic Judas Gospel clips with Professor Ehrman. I think I visited the National Geographic site once when you asked me to read about a submarine that had travelled in the 1960s from Florida to New Hampshire.
