Name:QuebecIndieAnna •
Title: The Jonah Bone Box in Talpiot •
Date posted: 07/17/12 22:55
Q: Tuesday July 17th 2012
Hello Friends.
I last visited this page on July 18th 2009, three years ago;
I created this page over 4 years ago, on Jan 13th 2008, as Prof. Charlesworth's symposium on Talpiot was getting underway.
Last night, for the first time, I was able to finally watch the documentary on the "Jonah Ossuary". The documentary did not air on the Canadian Discovery channel earlier in 2012.
My brother taped it for me.
For those of us that sit as spectators to the unfolding news out of Talpiot, we 'get caught up in fits and starts'.
It is fun for me to have time to revist and read new articles on recent work.
It is nice to be on summer break.
As I re-read some of the posts above, I am struck by how excited I was as events were unfolding in Jan of 2008.
...While in East Jerusalem in 1980 weeks after Talpiot's Chevron tomb was discovered, my Old and New Testament profs spoke in hushed voices about 'their stuff'. They would stop talking when I would try to sneak up on them to listen. I think now that my OT prof was more concerned with trying to bring me back into the RC Church. He was careful to not share too much about controversial issues.
I checked with him last summer and asked what the big secret was about, way back, during our 1980 Jerusalem summer.
A wall. A wall had been re-dated. It changed and shook up a lot of what he had taught for years to students in one of his OT classes.
My OT prof seems to have moved on in his interests. He is retired now... He has not kept up with recent news (since 2005).
Has anywone who speaks French ever gone over to the École Biblique in Jerusalem, and talked with some the older scholars who were there in 1980?
The Jonah ossuairy. The documentary.
Watched it for the first time last night.
As they say, truth is stranger than fiction.
You couldn't make this stuff up, I said to my OT prof.
He raised his eyebrows slowly once and said, 'Well, actually, some scholars have been proven to create forgeries, to get grant moneys, to change history, to protect interests....
He would question the chronology of events; first they find a 'Jesus' box, then a 'resurrection' box? Too convenient.
I disagree. I remember being awakened at 4 a.m. by construction crews that summer. It was a busy construction season. I believe that tombs were being found and covered up quickly so building could continue. I believe that snooping around and sinking a camera down an air vent can take researchers into tombs that have been untouched for 2000 years.
I believe more written information on boxes exists in tombs under buildings in East Talpiot.
But, the Jonah tomb is not 'untouched' in the rigourous sense of the word. In 1981, people did go into the tomb. They photographed the boxes.
I have questions :
- why was the Jonah box not put back in the loci it was found in?
- were the bones of the Jonah tomb removed in 1981, for re-burial?
- why were the bone boxes of the Jonah tomb only photographed?
- why were the bones boxes of the Jonah tomb not also taken to the IAA in 1981, when the tomb was first opened?
- is there information available on the people who entered the Jonah tomb in 1981?
- have their statements been recorded somewhere?
- will patina tests on the Jonah tomb boxes be performed?
- is there a way to get the electrons in the Jonah tomb to speak? Will they confirm that the boxes all come from that tomb?
- will patina tests on the Jonah tomb boxes show the inscriptions to be 1st century?
Indie
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Name:QuebecIndieAnna •
Date: 07/17/12 23:01
A: .
NOTE
The above post is copied from the "Jerusalem Conference" page.
That page is located under the "Theological Implications Category", not "General Discussions".
Indie
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Name:QuebecIndieAnna •
Date: 07/18/12 18:25
A: .
Question ;
What does the Jonah story mean in Jewish theology?
Does this Jonah bone box make the IAA see the Jonah tomb as "Christian"?
Does this Jonah bone box make orthodoxy see the Jonah tomb as "Christian"?
Is the likelyhood of physically enterinrg the tomb increase if the tomb is seen as being occupied by early followers of the Jesus movement.
Indie
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Name:sam •
Date: 07/18/12 19:09
A: Hello, Indie
Your post is very interesting, and I kept going through it is lines, and while doing this my mind goes to the words of many Christian scholars who spent years sudying the Christian religion, THE BOOKS, THE PEOPLE, from the time it was developped until this day.
This religion was first created by Paul, and the churches which were run by Paul's supporters and followers, and their teachings built on what Paul said in his personal and buisiness letters to other churches, and by the unkown scribes, the people who wrote what they call the Gospels, and all what Paul, and the scribes came with is totally the opposite of what Jesus said and teaches, and against the teaching of the OT , which was part of what Jesus believe about God and His Commandments.
Dear Indie,
You wrote:
"As they say, truth is stranger than fiction.
You couldn't make this stuff up, I said to my OT prof.
He raised his eyebrows slowly once and said, 'Well, actually, some scholars have been proven to create forgeries, to get grant moneys, to change history, to protect interests...."
What the OT prof. said is very true and a fact that many of the honest and open minded Christians and those who were Christians and left the churches came to find in their search for the truth.
FORGERIES....GET MONEY....CHANGE HISTORY.....PROTECT INTERESTS.....[let us not forget THE TOTAL POWER TO CONTROL THE PEOPLE , in every aspect of their life !!!].
- LET US DO EVIL THAT GOOD MAY COME ? - Paul
Christians believe that all their sins, and all the evil doing in their life can be forgiven, just by believing in Jesus as the son of god and god.
Romans 3:28 For we maintain that a man is JUSTIFIED BY FAITH APART FROM WORKS OF THE LAW. Paul
That is Paul teachings. Paul neve met , heard, or walk with Jesus.
Let us what JAMES the brother of Jesus said:
James 2:14 ....If someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?.
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
James 2:20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless.
James 2:24 YOU SEE THAT A MAN IS JUSTIFIED BY WORKS AND NOT BY FAITH ALONE.
James 4:15/16 Instead, you ought to say, " IF THE LORD WILLS, WE WILL LIVE AND ALSO DO THIS OR THAT."
But as it is , YOU BOAST IN YOUR ARROGANCE; ALL SUCH BOASTING IS EVIL.
Paul say:
2Corinthians 11:18 Since many boast according to the flesh, II WILL BOAST ALSO.
2 corinthians 11:16 Again i say, LET NO ONE THINK ME FOOLISH; BUT IF YOU DO , RECEIVE ME EVEN AS FOOLISH, SO THAT I ALSO MAY BOAST A LITTLE.
BOASTING IS EVIL . A LITTLE OR A LOT OF IT, OR BY WHOM IT DOES NOT CHANGE IT TO GOOD.
- I MY OFFER THE GOSPEL WHITHOUT CHARGE .. - Paul
- I HAVE BEEN CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST; ...the son of god, WHO LOVED ME AND GAVE HIMSELF UP FOR ME.
This is the biggest lie ever made, and billions of his followers believed him. I think people sometimes are blinded to see the truth.
As you said: "As they say, truth is stranger than fiction."
- I AM TELLING THE TRUTH IN CHRIST, I AM NOT LYING....I ASSURE YOU BEFORE GOD THAT I AM NOT LYING. - Paul
I DO ALL THING FOR THE SAKE OF THE GOSPEL...... WHY?....SO I AMY BECOME A FELLOW PARTAKER OF IT - Paul
Above I listed few from the words of Paul and James, and I can see that in all the debate of the Christian scholars they use more than 90 % of their arguments about the divinity of Jesus bringing the words of Paul and from according to John which no one knows who he is!!!, and what they use from the teaching and the true words of Jesus is less than 1%, and it is the same all the time, and here a little sample....I AM....I WAS BEFORE ABRAHAM....I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.
They never use the most important word of Jesus.... NO ONE IS GOOD EXCEPT GOD ALONE [GOD ALONE]......THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD [NOT THREE PERSONS OR THREE LORDS]......WHO DOES THE WILL OF GOD.....HE SPENT THE WHOLE NIGHT IN PRAYER TO GOD.....
THAT THEY MAY KNOW YOU, THE ONLY TRUE GOD , AND JESUS CHRIST WHOM YOU HAVE SENT.....THE WORD WHICH YOU HEAR IS NOT MINE, BUT THE FATHER'S WHO SENT ME. ... I CAN DO NOTHING ON MY OWN INITIATIVE.
I wonder why the Christians egnore what Jesus told them and believe Paul and John, and the Popes and Bishops who created all the lies to protect their INTERESTS and to keep their churches to rules over billions of blinded people who do not know the real truth of Jesus and His message, the people who believe in a God made of three persons, and proven to them by a TRIANGLE , OR AND EGG, OR WATER ETC..by those who run the business of the churches !!!.
Jesus said ,"GOD ALONE" and He did not say, GOD AND THE HOLY SPIRIT AND I [JESUS].
Jesus never claim He is God, or asked the people to worship Him, but He said:
"YOU ARE EXPERT AT SETTING ASIDE THE COMMANDMENT OF GOD IN ORDER TO KEEP YOUR TRADITION."
DID ANY CHRISTIAN READ THESE WORDS ? AND GO BACK TO CHECK WHAT GOD'S COMMANDMENTS ARE? AND HOW ONE GOD , ONE LORD BECAME THREE PERSONS IN ONE GOD?.
THE FIRST IS : YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER gods BEFORE ME.
That means only one God [there is no mentions to the holy spirit or the son, OR THREE IN ONE , OR ONE IN THREE.
Dear Indie , you mentioned:
"I think now that my OT prof was more concerned with trying to bring me back into the RC Church. He was careful to not share too much about controversial issues."
THAT IS WHAT CAME FROM THE POLICIES OF THE CHURCHES AT ALL TIME SINCE IT WAS CREATED 2000YEARS AGO, NOTHING CHANGED, THAT IS TO KEEP PEOPLE IN DARKNESS, NOT KNOWING WHAT JESUS TEACHING DID PRESENT .
A PERSON WHO BELIEVE IN JESUS SHOULD ONLY READ WHAT JESUS SAID, AND WHAT JESUS SAID REPRESENT THE TRUTH THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NO NEED FOR PAUL OR JOHN OR THE CHURCH.
Name:QuebecIndieAnna •
Date: 07/18/12 21:56
A: .
July 18th 2012
Dear Sam.
How nice to talk to you again.
I need to go out to the store. I only skimed the beginning of your post above. I shall read it in full tonight.
But, yes, "to control people" is also been shown to be a goal behind some forgeries.
I want to paste a link for you. It is for a TV series that aired in 2003, I think. The name of the show was "Joan Of Arcadia". It was cancelled after 2 seasons.
I also will paste a link for a university lecture given by the writer of the TV series. The writer of the 2003-2005 TV show, "Joan Of Arcadia", , Barbara Hall, grew up in a Protestant Christian branch of Christianity.
As a young adult, she converted to Catholicism.
Though I question her choice of denominations, I very much admire Mrs. Hall's strong stand on values.
I very much admire her wish to question Western culture's refusal to look at the historicities of religions. She, like me, is amazed that TV shows present superheroes who barely brush up against the importance of values.
The show she created met values head on.
The show she created challenges young people to dare to be the best they could be.
That was all replaced by rediculous "reality shows" and drama series that are all based upon "who is getting raped this week on prime time TV". Most TV shows are obscene these days.
I am sick to death of non-actors having cameras in their faces and the networks letting idiots spew garbage from their mouthes.
Verbal diarrhoea.
A show comes along that can actually enrich thnking and they cancel it before it even has a chance to get off the ground.
Oh, and, I will also paste the link for the theme song of the show.
1.
SONG (Theme of the show, "Joan Of Arcadia"
"One Of Us" :
http://www.youtube.com/w-atch?v=Ty6XkY3O7b8
(Thi-s- is not the original singer of the song.
I like the quietness of this version.)
2.
the SHOW
"Joan Of Arcadia"
http://www.youtub-e.com/watch?v=Ty6XkY3O7b8
-
S01 E01 Part 1/5
season 1 episode 1 part 1
3.
LECTURE by show's writer
http://www.youtube.com/w-atch?v=zGv_EObmvEc
Talk- to you again soon. Godde bless.
Indie
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Name:QuebecIndieAnna •
Date: 07/19/12 3:37
A: .
22h
Evening Sam,
The burials boxes, according to the experts, were used before, during, and just after historical Jesus walked the Roman roads of Palestine.
I wonder if the Jonah box pre-dates the year 70.
I say that because the camera that explored the Jonah tomb showed a skeleton laid in a niche, it seems to me.
Given the Roman crushing of the Jewish State in 70, I am assuming that a skeleton in a tomb that includes boxes, but which is still in its "shroud" lay-out,
is a tomb that a family did not "get back to" at the end of the year, after death, implying that "second burial" was not possible.
If my amateur archaeology is valid, I also wonder about the extent of the effect of Paul on the Primitive Church between 45 and 70.
God! I am sooooo rusty on my years. Used to know this stuff like the back of my hand. But, here goes anyway :
- I think (not sure) that the first half of Acts is a 'record' of the Primitive Church before Paul.
Then, in 45?, (really not sure of that year) there is the big 'show-down' in Jerusalem between Peter and Paul.... or was it a show-down between James and Paul.
See?
I'm really flying by the seat of my paints here.
Too lazy to get up and look it up in my class notes from the 1980s...
Aaaaaanyway, since Paul died in 69? I think, my question is : would the resurrection, "Jonah drawing" flow from very ealy Jerusalem Primitive Church theology?
Like, we're talking the 50s and 60s;
- would that not be before Paul's impact was operated?
I mean, he was travelling all over the Empire, and yes, writing letters, but, email did not exist yet.
What am I getting at, Sam?
Sam, I know that the "incorporation" you describe as Paul's is an important subject to you.
But, this page, which I created, is about the Jonah box drawing.
I am hoping, Sam, that we can keep this page about the Jonah box.
I will, of course, listen to what you have to share about your view of Paulene theology. I am hoping you will choose another page of the forum on which to do so.
I wish to encourage all visitors to this forum to try to stay as close as possible to the topic of the page titles.
Just as I wish to encourage looking for a page already in existence in order to share thoughts.
Just as I wish to encourage creating new pages on this Forum only when a truly new subject comes up.
Even discussion of the Jonah box might have been put in a page already in existence.
But, it is a pretty big moment in the history of recent Talpiot research. So I splurged and created a new page.
The movie The Body (2000?), then Dan Brown's baby estravaganza, then the Jesus-son-of-Joseph box, then the Charlesworth-Symposium in Jan of 2008, now this Jonah box, all seem to be a cruscendo that says
- he did not resurrect
- he did not resurrect
- he did not resurrect; then,
- resurrection was front and center from the get-go.
I personally don't give a fruit fly's hiccup about resurrection.
To me, the center of religion are love, be honest, do not covet, forgive, be solicitous, be curious about each other's traditions, be empathetic, save one another, get control of our population growth, don't kill the planet, sent in an army if one child is being hurt by anybody, anywhere, let exegesis light the corners of all religions; let the planet learn to be honest about women's issues, be we from the halter top or hijab persuasion, since both control the bodies of women... .
That's my credo. That is my profession of faith.
Although I care about having accurate historical information, I care about my credo more than I do about Paul deformation of Jesus's Word. It is important to shed light on the deformation, of course, but not as pressing for me that I be true to my credo.
I don't even care anymore that Luther stuck it to Roman Catholicism.
I don't care that the RC church seriously f_ _ _ ed with my French Canadian ancestors, its women in particular, or that the same thing happened to my Iroquois ancestors as well,
as Russell Means says: "Hey, we're all on the Reservation now."
I apoligize, Sam, for my language,
I know you are a proper gentleman from Beirut.
I am a balerina raised with 4 brothers on Canadian Air Bases. I am a lady 99% of the time.
But, once in a while, I ask for permission to imitate my brothers. Forgive me. Will you?
I know that your passion makes you care deeply about sharing about how you feel, rightly so, that Occidental Christianity seriously messed with the minds of entire populations. I really hear you.
But, on this page, I just want to ask questions about the Jonah box.
Who handled the boxes in 1981?
Would patina test confirm the very primitive date for the
carvings on the Jonah box, i.e. pre-70?
That's what I want to talk about on this page.
I am on holidays.
Instead of reading a Kathy Reichs novel, I want to bring my brain up to speed on articles by Dr. Tabor and see if I can't answer some of the questions I have posed on this page.
When I've done the reading, I'll re-post my findings to this page.
I'll swim, spend time with my family, get some summer exercise and clean my carpets. :)
I don't know if you are inclined to watch some of the Joan of Arcadia episodes. I think you would enjoy the wonderful values it encourages young people to have.
Even if the writer's Catholicism would not be my choice.
I am so glad to be able to spend time with you this summer. I missed you over the winter.
I hope the heat in Toronto is not too taxing on your health.
I pray your wife and children are well.
I pray that you are well also.
God bless you.
Indie
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Name:sam •
Date: 07/19/12 18:05
A: Dear Indie,
I am glad to hear from you, and that you are doing well. You are always in my mind, and we are after those many years hearing from each other a close friend, and we share in most of the major and important things.
Indie, my friend, feel free to write to me anything that come to your mind, and I will accepted, and no need for apology. I do respect you and your words what ever way it comes.
Thank for asking about us, me and my wife. The truth that my wife she had misterious health problem for several years, many specialist are doing everything, and avery test, and with so many medication but there is no change. Tommorow , and after 2 months from been doing test in the hospital, the specialist will come to see her !, [the test shows some growing pulps in the intestine].
" the link for the theme song of the show .1-2-3"
I tried to open them , but I could not, I have no idea why.
If there is another way , please let me know, and thank you.
by the way while I am lookin for those on you tube, I came upon very interrestin one, you might like to look at it.
Prof. James Tabor has some words in it, so I think you might like to hear his words;
The name of the site on youtube:
Corrupted Bible & its propagandist authors
From prof. James Tabot biography:
"In 2006 Tabor published The Jesus Dynasty, which interprets Jesus as an apocalyptic Messiah whose extended family founded a royal dynasty in the days before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. He included archaeological data as well as textual interpretations of biblical texts, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and ancient historical sources. The form of Christianity that grew out of this movement, led by the apostle Paul, was, according to Tabor, a decisive break with the Ebionite-like original teachings of John the Baptist and Jesus"
I am going to bring a new page next to bring some of my finding.
God bless you and your family, and wish you the best time in the summer.
Name:QuebecIndieAnna •
Date: 07/20/12 0:05
A: .
Hi Sam
Solution for going to the 3 links I gave :
------------------------------------------------------
--- on a Google page, type the word Youtube
- click Enter
- in the empty box toward top, type
One of us
of the several choice click on girl with long, straight dark hair
sitting at piano, looking sideways at camera
She sings the theme song for the show
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty6XkY3O7b8
-----------------------------
- on a Google page, type the word Youtube
- click Enter
- in the empty box toward top, type
Joan Of Arcadia S01 E01 part 1/5
- click Enter
- click on the little picture window that says S01 E01 part 1/5
That will take you to the first episode of the show.
http://www.youtu-be.com/watch?v=LeVrXGOt5i-g-
------------------------------
Repeat the same process ( Google, Youtube..)
and type
Barbara hall on Joan of Arcadia part 1
You'll see a lady siting at a desk in the picture.
She is in a university clasroom.
Click on that picture for part one of the writer's talk on
the show she created.
http://www.you-tube.com/watch?v=zGv_EObmvEc-
Hope this helps.
Indie
.
Name:sam •
Date: 07/21/12 21:00
A: Hello Indie,
Thank you for helping me finding the 3 youtube sites.
I watched the second one, and it is a nice movie which we watched before, as we watched the film [I can't remember the name] in which god came to ride a car with a person and created rain in the car, and in Christmas time we like to watch the many movies about angels came to earth to help people.
We like those because they are clean movies , and bring good many ideas that are good example for the people to follow, since 90% of the movies in the west and specially in the state and Englam are filled with garbage , violence, nudity, sex, and bad language, beside, the drug and the alcohol which in some programs come in every scene.
All these bad things are prohibited and forbiden in the Islamic religion.
And I do agree 100% on what you said:
"rediculous "reality shows" and drama series that are all based upon "who is getting raped this week on prime time TV". Most TV shows are obscene these days.
I am sick to death of non-actors having cameras in their faces and the networks letting idiots spew garbage from their mouthes.
Verbal diarrhoea."
Anyhow, "GOD WALKING AROUND AS A PERSON" those words from the film, are as bad as the bad language in other films, because it brings God to the level of human, and that is a lie about God, and it is a humiliation to the creator, the one who created all things.
If you hear the news everyday , you will notice the violence [killing , robbing, raping etc.] are the first subject in the news, and in all the channels, and what happen yesterday in Colorado, when a young very educated person to come a horrefic crime and the many others are the result of what came on TV & the media together.
In Islam the killer for no reason will be killed, but in the west he will get years of good living [ food, health service, intertanement] and a good lawer to deffend him, and the good honest people will pay the bill !!!!!!.
Anyone who believe that this killer is insane is for sure stupid, since this fellow plan his act for long time, not only by going the the movie but by wiretraps his apartment too, and that is a work of a smart/stupid person.
After watching this film, I came to "TABORBLOG"
And after to - prof. James H. Charlesworth on Jonah image and talpiot tomb.
From that I came to James D. Tabor --- to his book 'PAUL AND JESUS: HOW THE APOSTLE TRANSFORMED CHRISTIANITY"
The following is a sample of what was written about the book:
"Using the oldest Christian documents that we have—the letters of Paul—as well as other early Christian sources, historian and scholar James Tabor reconstructs the origins of Christianity. Tabor reveals that the familiar figures of James, Peter, and Paul sometimes disagreed fiercely over everything from the meaning of Jesus’ message to the question of whether converts must first become Jews.
Tabor shows how Paul separated himself from Peter and James and
INTRODUCED HIS OWN VERSION OF CHRISTIANITY,WHICH WOULD CONTINUE TO DEVELOP INDEPENDENTLY OF THE GOSPEL MESSAGE THAT JESUS, JAMES ANDPETER PREACHED."
My next new post will be " CHRISTIANITY OF PAUL - NEVER ENDING LIES & DECEPTION".
