Name:JMD •
Title: Was/is Jesus a Gnostic? •
Date posted: 05/17/07 4:53
Q: from the book:
“Gospel Truth: The New Image of Jesus Emerging from Science and History and Why It Matters”
Russell Shorto (1997)
“The death of the more individualistic and mystical form of Christianity can be assigned a date: October 28, 312. On that day the armies of two competitors for the title of Roman Emperor clashed on a bridge ten miles north of Rome…
“…That day, in the Battle of the Milvian Bridge, Constantine’s invading army crushed the larger force of Maxentius, defender of Rome. Constantine became emperor. The Empire became Christian. The world changed.
The bishops of the orthodox church, who had been persecuted by Rome as recently as nine years before, now controlled the most powerful army the world had ever known. They set out at once to secure their position. This meant that Jews began suffering for their ‘folly’ in not recognizing Jesus as the Messiah; and it meant the death of gnostic Christianity.
One of the major results of scholarship of the past few decades has been the determination that gnosticism was not an oddball heretical development of the second and third centuries, but in fact has a pedigree that extends back as far as that of orthodox Christianity. The reason the one is now considered ‘Christianity’ while the other died out as a heresy has more to do with Constantine’s dream and subsequent rise to emperor than with any authoritative claim to represent the authentic message of Jesus."
"The proto-gnostics.. insisted that belief based on a bodily resurrection was a 'faith of fools.' For them, individual ecstatic experience of Christ was all that mattered. The receiver of Christ became initiated into the mystery of God, a secret wisdom; no broker or middleman was required. As it developed, gnosticism went even further away from the traditions of Judaism.
As Pagels writes: "Orthodox Jews and Christians insist that a chasm separates humanity from its creator: God is wholly other. But some of the gnostics who wrote these gospels contradict this: self-knowledge is knowledge of God; the self and the divine are identical." The Jesus of the gnostic Gospel of Thomas makes this clear: 'Whoever drinks from my mouth will become like me; I myself shall become that person....' "
"I don't need a church to broker my faith; I can know God immediately. And if I know myself, I know God, for God and I are one. If this sounds somehow modern it isn't because many gnostic churches have opened up in the 1990s, but because the idea behind gnosticism - individual inspiration supersedes human institutions - never died out... And if this idea of a personal relationship with God also sounds anciently familiar, it should. 'The Kingdom of God is within you.'
What set the historical Jesus apart from the crowd of first-century prophets if not his radical message that individuals could come to experience God directly? That gnosticism mirrors this basic notion of Jesus is also an argument in favor of its direct link to him."
"This postulated proto-gnostic influence on Paul is another area that has made orthodox Christian theologians uncomfortable for centuries. If, as they claimed, Paul inherited the tradition that we see in the gospels...- and if what later came to be known as gnosticism was just a heretical mis-reading of Jesus' message, why does Paul break out in some places into what sounds very much like gnostic mysticism? Paul writes of entering a trance and being taken up to heaven, where he 'heard things that are not to be told, that no mortal is permitted to repeat.' Elsewhere, he differentiates between two kinds of Christian knowledge: the ordinary knowledge of Jesus' death and resurrection, and a 'secret and hidden' knowledge which is only for the advanced."
"..Christian theologians have written off these passages, but to scholars like Robinson they add further proof to the theory that a wisdom tradition dates to Jesus' own lifetime - that those who compiled the first version of the Gospel of Thomas were also among Jesus' followers, had just as much authority as Peter and the others, and have just as much likelihood of having gotten to what Jesus 'really meant' as the orthodox tradition."
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/18/07 15:23
A: June Singer [Gnostic Book of Hours]
“In the beginning is Oneness, undifferentiated Unity. All exists within the One, and the One nourishes the all. But the One is more than existence, it is also consciousness. It has desire and thought, and these act to separate the One into the two. The primal unity is broken when the First Thought comes forth. She is female. We are told that nothing can occur in the world of time and space until the Feminine, whose attribute is forethought (Pronoia), or intuition, is activated. Without this ability to look forward, to imagine, nothing can be conceived. The feminine principle is the active one, drawing forth the spark that will beget life from the One who is unbeggoten. But for this life to be perfect – that is, whole – both the desire of the masculine principle and the receptivity of the feminine principle must be in accord with one another…
…We come into being physically as male or as female, but psychologically and spiritually we are androgynous… Often we forget that this potential exists within us, and we identify with our biological sex more than with our psychological and spiritual androgyny. It is then that the masculine aspect and the feminine aspect come into conflict, and we find ourselves supporting one and rejecting the other."
Jesus: “…when you make the male and the female one and the same so that the male not be male nor the female female…”
"We are told here that in our essence and in our spiritual lives there is no difference between female and male, for each of us carries the spark of the divine in which male and female are united as a single one."
“I am a jealous God and there is no God beside me.”
"When the invisible Sophia looks down upon the impiety of the chief ruler, she cries out, ‘You are mistaken, Samael’ – that is, ‘blind god.’ Through her wisdom, she offers to all humanity hope in a higher God above the jealous one.
Endowed with the wisdom of the Mother, Yaldabaoth ‘knows’ of the higher God, but he does not know that he knows. He has knowledge, but he does not have access to his knowledge; therefore he is ignorant. His plight resembles our own human condition when we do not have gnosis. Then we only believe what we see, or what has been proven to our satisfaction. Since it does not occur to us that we may be endowed with supernal wisdom, we do not open ourselves to the mystery of the Spirit that invisibly permeates the created world. So long as we limit our explorations and activities to the visible world as though that were all that existed, we must remain blind to the transcendent beauty of the eternal world."
Name:Ladyhawk •
Date: 05/18/07 17:02
A: So where did "wives, be submissive to your husbands" come from?
Name:Ladyhawk •
Date: 05/18/07 17:47
A: Oh wait! Let me guess! That would be PAUL, wouldn't it?
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/19/07 5:27
A: Ladyhawk ! You brave soul, daring to come into this thread. :-) Of course it came from Paul. But as noted before, institutionalized Christianity was more about politics, Paul and Peter, than Jesus and his teachings and James the Just who was 'supposed' to be left in charge. Ok, now brace yourself .... [and remember, nobody has to agree - fire away if you wish!]
Per Elaine Pagels, "Beyond Belief: The Secret Gospel of Thomas"
"Although Mark and the other evangelists use titles that Christians today often take as indicating Jesus' divinity, such as 'son of God' and 'messiah,' in Mark's own time these titles designated 'human' roles. The Christians who translated these titles into English fifteen centuries later believed they showed that Jesus was uniquely related to God, and so they capitalized them - a linguistic convention that does not occur in Greek. But Mark's contemporaries would most likely have seen Jesus as a man - although one gifted, as Mark says, with the power of the holy spirit, and divinely appointed to rule in the coming kingdom of God."
"The Lost Gospel: The Book of Q and Christian Origins"
Burton L. Mack
"Once upon a time, before there were gospels of the kind familiar to readers of the New Testament, the first followers of Jesus wrote another kind of book. Instead of telling a dramatic story about Jesus' life, their book contained only his teachings.They lived with these teachings ringing in their ears and thought of Jesus as the founder of their movement. But their focus was not on the person of Jesus or his life and destiny.
They were engrossed with the social program that was called for by his teachings. Thus their book was not a gospel of the Christian kind, namely a narrative of the life of Jesus as the Christ. Rather it was a gospel of Jesus' sayings.."
"Then the book was lost. Perhaps the circumstances changed, or the people changed, or their memories and imagination of Jesus changed.."
"It makes some difference whether the founder of a movement is remembered for his teachings, or for his deeds and destiny. For the first followers of Jesus, the importance of Jesus as the founder of their movement was directly related to the significance they attached to his teachings... But as the Jesus movement spread, groups in different locations and changing circumstances began to think about the kind of life Jesus must have lived... This shift from interest in Jesus' teachings to questions about Jesus' person, authority, and social role eventually produced a host of different mythologies."
"According to the story line of the narrative gospels, Jesus was destined to come into conflict with the rulers of the world because he appeared in the world as the very son of God. This conflict escalated to a climax in the crucifixion of Jesus as the Christ, but would only be finally resolved when Jesus as the resurrected son of God appeared at the end of time to judge the world and establish a new social order as the reign or kingdom of God.."
"Even after the narrative gospels became the rage, the sayings gospel was still intact. It was still being copied and read with interest by ever-widening circles. And it was available in slightly different versions in the several groups that continued to develop within the Jesus movement. Eventually, the narrative gospels prevailed as the preferred portrayal for Christians, and the sayings gospel finally was lost to the historical memory of the Christian church."
"Were it not for the fact that two authors of narrative gospels incorporated sizable portions of the sayings gospel into their stories of Jesus' life, the saying gospel of the first followers of Jesus would have disappeared without a trace... But Matthew and Luke each had a copy of the sayings gospel, and the material each copied from it largely over-lapped. It was this fortuitous coincidence that made it possible in recent times to recover the book, even though the sayings now sound like the pronouncements of the son of God instead of the teachings of Jesus."
"... The Gospel of Thomas looked very much like Q. Here then was a text closely related to Q that proved the existence of the genre in early Christian circles. It also provided yet another text of the sayings of Jesus for comparative study."
"...The followers of Jesus responsible for the Gospel of Thomas had grown accustomed to the idea of Jesus as a sage and had given a great deal of thought to his teachings. For them, the significance of his teachings lay in their capacity to enable an individual to withstand society's pressures to conform. They had meditated deeply on his sayings and taken seriously the challenge to disassociate from society and develop self-awareness, self-confidence, and self-sufficiency. When the Q people formed groups, started their mission, and then retreated behind a smokescreen of apocalyptic pronouncements when their mission failed, the Thomas people decided to go their own way. When Mark's community tried to imagine itself as a determining factor in the course of human history, the Thomas people thought that the legacy of
Jesus had been betrayed."
"The Coptic Gospel of Thomas was a translation from a Greek original that [some] scholars now date to the last quarter of the first century. It contains a truly amazing collection of the sayings of Jesus. When compared with Q, approximately one-third of the sayings in the Gospel of Thomas have parallels in Q, and about 60 percent are from the Q1 layer. This shows that there must have been some association with the Q people during that period. From that point on, however, the Thomas tradition is marked by a strong sense of independence."
"The reference to his disciples is, for the most part, collective. But Peter, Matthew and James are mentioned, as are Thomas, Salome, and Mary. Thomas, Salome, and Mary say the right things, ask the right questions, and so are privileged to be part of an inner circle, as is James who is spoken of in his absence. These figures obviously represent the true followers of Jesus and thus reflect the Thomas group in the text. But Peter, Matthew, and 'the disciples' usually ask the wrong questions and have to be corrected.."
"...Over and over again the disciples ask when the kingdom will come, how it will be, and whether they will be able to enter. In every case Jesus tells them that they have completely misunderstood his teachings about the kingdom. The Kingdom, Jesus explains, is already present, and if they knew who they were, namely the true disciples of Jesus, they would know not to ask..."
"..But just as there was a shift in Q from aphoristic instruction to prophetic and apocalyptic discourse, so there was a shift in the Thomas tradition from aphoristic injunctions to another distinctive style.. Highly metaphoric and largely enigmatic, the teachings of Jesus to his disciples tell them that true knowledge is self-knowledge, and that true self-knowledge is a state of being untouched by the world of human
affairs, a state of being in touch with a noetic world of divine light and stability."
-----
Gnosis=knowledge :D
"Then took they up stones to cast at her: but JMD hid herself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by."
Name:Panluna •
Date: 05/19/07 16:36
A: Jesus was Hebrew and followed the Essene tradition.I believe gnostiscm developed after his death and was probably the first tradition of the new faith.The Mandeaens include his teachings.And the Cathars were persecuted for it.
Name:Ladyhawk •
Date: 05/19/07 17:32
A: Much of interest here. And Panluna seems to have the way of it. That makes sense, I think.
But now, tell me: the gnostic belief system teaches that God is within each of us? Is there then no Other in this scenario? No Creator, no power or intelligence beyond ourselves?
Are we seen, then, as a randomly developed species of specific intelligence that has (in what would appear to be some prideful arrogance) declared itself the Power of earth?
Or do they say we have been created to share in the Creation? To know as God knows?
No criticism, just trying to understand. I am in sync with some of these ideas, but I can't quite figure out if God exists as an actual entity in the gnostic perspectives. Also, I get nervous with the idea of men assuming god-like powers. Aren't the Scientologists looking forward to the return of some alien powers who will confer on them the answers to all the questions??
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/20/07 6:28
A: I disagree, Panluna, but each to their own. After all, we are on different spiritual paths. :)
Ladyhawk: "Aren't the Scientologists looking forward to the return of some alien powers who will confer on them the answers to all the questions??"
hmmm... have no idea, that's not a cult I read up on - however, I have heard that Tom Cruise is their messiah. Mark Morford said as much [that's likely where I heard it from. :b ]
"Why do you call me, 'Master, master,' and not do what I say?"
"Nothing is hidden that will not be made known, or secret that will not come to light.
What I tell you in the dark, speak in the light. And what you hear as a whisper, proclaim on the housetops."
"Someone from the crowd said to him, 'Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me.' But he said to him, 'Sir, who made me your judge or lawyer?' "
"Sell your possessions and give to charity [alms]. Store up treasure for yourselves in a heavenly account, where moths and rust do not consume, and where thieves cannot break in and steal.
For where your treasure is, there your heart will also be."
"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened for you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks the door will be opened."
Name:Panluna •
Date: 05/20/07 20:49
A: JMD,
Which part do you disagree with me about?
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/21/07 8:35
A: Gospel of Q:
How fortunate are those who are crying; they will laugh.
I am telling you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.
Don't be afraid of those who can kill the body, but can't kill the soul.
And why do you worry about clothing? Think of the way lilies grow. They do not work or spin. But even Solomon in all his splendor was not as magnificent. If God puts beautiful clothes on the grass that is in the field today and tomorrow is thrown into a furnace, won't he put clothes on you, faint hearts?
Salt is good; but if salt loses its taste, how can it be restored? It is not good for either the land or the manure pile. People just throw it out.
The kingdom of God is like yeast which a woman took and hid in three measures of flour until it leavened the whole mass.
How fortunate are the eyes that see what you see! for I'm telling you that many prophets and kings longed to see what you see and did not see it, and to hear what you hear and did not hear it.
A student is not better than his teacher. It is enough for a student to be like his teacher.
To what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplace and calling to each other: 'We played the pipes for you and you did not dance.' 'We sang a dirge and you did not wail.' For John did not come eating or drinking, and they are saying, 'He is demon possessed.' The son of man has come eating and drinking, and they say, 'Look at him, a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.' But in spite of what they say, wisdom's children show that she is right.
What do you think? If a man had a hundred sheep and lost one of them, wouldn't he leave the ninety-nine and go look for the one that was lost? And if he should find it, I tell you, he will rejoice more over that one sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray.
Gospel of Thomas:
Jesus said, "Come unto me, for my yoke is easy and my lordship is mild, and you will find repose for yourselves."
Jesus said, "If the flesh came into being because of spirit, it is a wonder. But if spirit came into being because of the body, it is a wonder of wonders. Indeed, I am amazed at how this great wealth has made its home in this poverty."
Jesus said, "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the all."
Jesus said, "Blessed are the solitary and elect, for you will find the kingdom. For you are from it, and to it you will return."
Jesus said, "Seek and you will find. Yet, what you asked me about in former times and which I did not tell you then, now I do desire to tell, but you do not inquire after it."
Jesus said, "The kingdom is like a shepherd who had a hundred sheep. One of them, the largest, went astray. He left the ninety-nine and looked for that one until he found it. When he had gone to such trouble, he said to the sheep, 'I care for you more than the ninety-nine.' "
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/21/07 9:01
A: From "The Hiram Key" C. Knight and R. Lomas:
"There are major consequences of a literal belief in the resurrection of Jesus's body which later ascended into heaven. All the authority of the Roman Catholic Church stems from the experiences of Jesus's [physical] resurrection by the twelve [so-called] 'favoured' apostles.." ['a blacker falsehood was never uttered..']. "..an experience which was closed to all newcomers following his ascent into Heaven. This closed, [minded ] unchallengeable experience ... had enormous implications for the political structure of the early Church."
"It restricted the leadership to a small circle of persons who held a position of incontestable authority and conferred on this group the right to ordain future leaders as their successors." [yet they left James the Just and Mary/Mariamne off the list :|
"This resulted in the view of religious authority which has survived to this day..."
"...It was very much in the interests of the rulers of the early Church to accept the [physical] resurrection as a literal truth because of the benefits it conferred on them in the form of an uncontested [male] source of authority. Since no one of a later generation could have access to Christ in the way that the apostles did during his lifetime and at his resurrection, every believer must look to the Church at Rome, [except Gnostics :D ] which the apostles [they just 'conveniently' forgot about the 'apostle to the apostles' Mary Magdalene] are said to have founded, and its bishops for authority."
"The Gnostic Church called this literal view of the resurrection 'the faith of fools', [since Gnostics are more intelligent and spiritually enlightened :b] claiming those who announced that their dead master had come physically back to life confused a spiritual truth with an actual event. The Gnostics quoted the secred tradition of Jesus's teaching as recorded in his speech to his disciples in Matthew:
'To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.'
The Gnostics recognised that their theory of secret knowledge, to be gained by their own efforts, also had political implications. It suggest that whoever 'see the Lord' through inner vision can claim that his or her own authority equals or surpasses that of the apostles and their successors."
Irenaenus: "They consider themselves mature so that no one can be compared with them in the greatness of their gnosis, [heh :b] not even if you mention Peter or Paul" [they were losers] ..they imagine that they themselves have discovered more than the apostles... " [again, you left James and Mary Mag off the list.]
"Gnostic teaching was subversive of this order [orthodox hierarchy heresy]. "..it [Gnostic teaching] claimed to offer to every initiate a means of direct access to God of which the priests and bishops themselves might be ignorant."
[as Homer Simpson would say 'heh, heh, suckers.']
"We now knew that the interpretation of the resurrection had been a tremendous source of controversy in the early Christian Church and that there had been a secret tradition concerning living spiritual resurrections connected with a group of Christians labelled Gnostics and denounced for political reasons as heretics, because their interest in gaining knowledge undermined the authority of the bishops of the orthodox Church."
:D
"A fundamental difficulty for the Church lies in the fact that the central Christian myth predates Jesus Christ.... So close was the story of Mithra, another cult popular in the Roman Empire, that the Church fathers identified it as the work of the devil, intended deliberately to parody the story of Christ. "
*laughs*
"Mithra: born of a virgin in a stable on 25 December around 600 BC. His resurrection was celebrated at Easter... Mithraism is a Syrian offshoot of the more ancient Persian cult of Zoroaster, which was introduced into the Roman Empire about 67 BC. Its doctrines included baptism, a sacramental meal, a savior god who died and rose again to act as a mediator between man and god, a [physical] resurrection, a last judgement and heaven and hell. Its devotees recognised the divinity of the Emperor."
"A problem for mainline Christianity is the belief that Jesus was the offspring of a magical mating of Yahweh and Mary." ..this god and woman union is an ancient necessity for the parentage of all would-be man-gods in Middle Eastern cultures. The justification for this claim amongst Christians is taken from the title 'son of God' - which was an ancient title for everyone who was claiming kingship."
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/21/07 22:44
A: "The Virgin Birth
Based on the argument that Jesus was born on 15 September 7 BC":
"The Magi were astrologers, and astrological concepts informed their thinking. In the quest for a messiah they would use astrological principles to seek guidance from the stars and planets."
"In 7 BC a triple conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn took place.."
"..a triple conjunction of Jupiter-Saturn in Pisces only occurs once every 900 years or so.. In addition to this, the sun had just entered Pisces at the vernal equinox, and a new age was beginning."
"..To continue with the astronomical and astrological significance of the sky on the night of 15 September 7 BC, the sun was in the constellation of Virgo on that evening. As anyone who looks at newspaper horoscopes knows, people are grouped according to their sun signs.. If Jesus was born on 15 September 7 BC he would, according to this simplistic aspect of astrology, come under the sign of Virgo, the Virgin. In other words, he would be described as having the 'sun in Virgo' or being a 'son of Virgo.' John Addey, who tried to work backwards to calculate an astrological birth chart for Christ, said: 'The symbolism of the Pisces-Virgo polarity is so intimately involved with the life of Jesus and his religion (not only have we the Virgin birth but the word Bethlehem means 'house of bread' - the sixth house, Virgo, the Virgin with the ear of corn), that we must certainly expect these signs to be strong.'
"To talk of a Pisces-Virgo polarity is an astrological way of saying that the two constellations are diametrically opposed along the zodiac. Some art historians have drawn attention to the use of this polarity in religious art."
"The language of astrology is the language of symbolism. In an astrological context, to describe Jesus as 'son of the virgin' is to say that he was born with the sun in Virgo. Hans Sandauer discussed this in his book 'History Controlled by the Stars.' .."
"Mythology also sheds light on the description of Christ as the Son of the Virgin. Joseph Campell, in his extremely important four-volume work entitled 'The Masks of God' makes it very clear that the religious concept of a 'son of God born of a virgin' is far older than Christianity itself. Many religious themes and motifs from both the Greek classics and the Bible can be demonstrated as having their roots in ancestral ideas as old as the Bronze Age civilisation of Mesopotamia (c. 2000 BC). Concepts such as the virgin birth of a son of God, along with many other themes which include the deluge, departure from God's garden, and trees of life and knowledge, originate in much more ancient cultures than the Hellenistic world of the Magi and Jesus."
"In earlier times, the suggestion that Jesus was not miraculously conceived by Mary would have been considered heretical, and for some people it still is. In history, those who questioned orthodoxy were burnt at the stake. However, since the nineteenth century, which Campbell calls 'That epochal century of almost unbelievable spiritual and technological transformations', it has become necessary to look at the sources of religious ideas in a new way."
"Today, Christianity embodies differing sects with differing interpretations of theology, and the Church as a whole is finding its teaching seriously challenged from many quarters.. For some Christians, to doubt the historical truth of the Bible is to be unchristian, while for others it is possible to recognise this story as a reflection of ancient pre-Christian themes which represent deeply important psychological or spiritual insights. It is also possible to see that for the early Christians trying to establish a foundation of doctrine, these legendary stories were utilised to give form to this hugely significant expression of faith called Christianity."
"Whether one regards the Christian story as a matter of fact, or as something which possesses a somewhat different value and significance, for the Magi and the people who expected a messiah, Christianity as the term is understood today did not exist."
"The Birth of Christ:Exploding the Myth"
I'm just a Jesus folk myself. A gnostic one, but a Jesus person all the same... the more I meditate on some of those parables and sayings, the more I get out of them... it's ever unfolding for one's inner world. awesome...
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/22/07 3:03
A: Look at this one, from Gospel of Thomas:
Jesus said, "Where there are three gods, they are gods. Where there are two or one, I am with him."
I like meditating on this one:
Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
Regarding James the Just/Righteous in Gospel of Thomas:
The disciples said to Jesus, "We know that you will depart from us. Who is to be our leader?"
Jesus said to them, "Wherever you are, you are to go to James the righteous, for whose sake heaven and earth came into being."
Jesus said, "Many times have you desired to hear these words which I am saying to you, and you have no one else to hear them from. There will be days when you will look for me and will not find me."
No one else at all? Not even James? [while 'inside' the kingdom if Jesus isn't around, I'll maybe meditate on James showing up, since heaven and earth came into being for his sake?! Wow! Is that not the greatest thing Jesus has ever said about someone?! ]
Because that makes me wonder even more .... regarding "The Gospel of Thomas" - could James and Thomas be one and the same?!! :0 Not saying it is the truth, but I mean, look what Jesus says, yet James isn't around, in Gospel of Thomas? The twin Thomas is though ... James has been called a twin, before, I think... hmm.. Well, if there 'is' any truth at all to that, then it's way, way, cool ! Because James got ripped off big time in the NT - only a small, wee, book of 5 short chapters, or something, yet I've seen this great big 'tome' of a book before, in some of the bookstores I've been to, and it's all to do with the writings of James!
Still, though not much from James in the NT, there is one part which I think is some of the wisest words spoken in the Bible, and it's very revealing for the days we live in now, as well as telling about the past. It's about wisdom:
"But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish."
Which is pretty much what has been going on, for centuries, though for awhile now, many have been seeking for the truth, in various ways, which is wonderful of course. Now, that some are striving for tolerance, egalitarianism, enlightenment, and so on - much of which we've been discussing/arguing about here, and which many of us also work towards in various ways, thus James next words are coming true...slowly:
"But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. And the fruit of the righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace."
I just lit a candle for James the Just - it's one from Israel, too -
a Memorial Candle.
Name:Anchorite •
Date: 05/22/07 3:21
A: THE TAO
Cross-eyed now
Is mind and matter
Tao's two
Towers together
Split is heart
Yours and mine
Tao's but
One divine
Pull the drapes
Take a pose
Consummate
As it goes
There is neither
Rate nor duty
Only light's
Emergent beauty
~Anchorite
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/22/07 3:27
A: I'm not a whore. Nor am I that desperate for cash.
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/22/07 3:35
A: A better ude for me [I prefer to know/like my fantasies, eh?]... Colin James, that blues guitarist/singer/song writer, I've had a crush on for many years... In days gone by, I used to be right up front - so close he sweated on me. mmmm...so sexy. :b here's a good song he sings to me in my fantasies...
"Better Way to Heaven"
We're turned on and wide awake
Dusted off this lonely day
We're gonna go where the band's got soul
You sing away all my pain
Sweet honey through my veins
we're gonna twist and shout
and forget our names.
[chorus]
Swing low and
Turn the lights down
I don't wanna know a better way
to heaven
I can feel you
Shine around me
And I don't wanna know a better
way to heaven.
I'm gonna make a name
I'll make you my famous flame
And I'll take you downtown
every night
Then you can light me up
Show me what it's all about
There's no star I'll follow
like I'd follow you.
I heard the gospel truth
And I got it all from you
You got your message through
on time
You must be a saviour's daughter
Feel like I can walk on water
When I feel your sweet lips
touching mine.
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/22/07 3:56
A: "The ultimate sexist put-down: the pr*ck which lies down on the job. The ultimate weapon in the war between the sexes: the limp pr*ck. The banner of the enemy's encampment: the pr*ck at half-mast. The symbol of the apocalypse: the atomic warhead pr*ck which self-destructs. That was the basic inequity which could never be righted..."
Erica Jong "Fear of Flying"
Name:Anchorite •
Date: 05/22/07 4:01
A: You're talking about a real problem. I gotta think on it.
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/22/07 4:14
A: by the way my heart ain't split, and in any case it doesn't belong to you, whoever you are stranger with big ego
Name:Anchorite •
Date: 05/22/07 4:18
A: JMD,
I don't understand. I give up! Please know I meant well. Sorry!
~Anchorite
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/22/07 4:53
A: "On the spiritual level, women can kill with rejection. Women can kill the patriarchal God .. simply by rejecting him... Women's most feared power over men, then, is the power to say 'no.'To refuse to take care of men. To
refuse to service them sexually. To refuse to worship their masculine God. [to refuse to like their pervy, offensive silly poems, which they ruin your threads with.] "Every rapist knows that sex can be forced, but no power in the world can force love from any woman.."
"The possibility of a future true morality is contained not in the fear of God, but in the still unknown meanings of the lod, grim Goddess who represented fear itself. She is the one we most need to understand: not the pretty Virgin; not the fecund Mother; but the wise, willful, wolfish Crone."
"The Crone was the feminine equivalent of the old man with a white beard who lived up in the sky and commanded armies of angels; that is, a naive symbol of a collective idea. The symbol represented a uniquely feminine world view, unaltered by men, who feared the Crone image enough to leave it alone. They assimilated the Virgin and Mother phases of the ancient Goddess to Christianity, combined them, and deprived
the combination of divine status; but the Crone phase was too darkly threatening to be so handled.
Like old women in general, the symbolic Old Woman haunted the fringes of Western culture, largely unnoticed and unacknowledged except when her 'witchcraft' aroused a panic. Because she retained so much of her original prepatriarchal character, she is a valuable study object for modern feminists desirous of reassessing the female image.
The Crone is of value too, as an indication of the power of women's nay-saying, hence of their best hope of exerting control in a male-dominated world where they are expected to always say yes. The Crone's title was related to the word 'crown' and she represented the power who made the moral and legal decisions for her subjects and descendants.. embodiment of wisdom.. She established the cyclic system of perpetual becoming.. no hierarchy of better or worse, we and they.. a philosophical
system opposed to the ones devised by men..
Perhaps.. the Crone is being rediscovered by a world that male systems appear to be pushing toward a brink of disaster.. it has been said before that archetypes suppressed by any culture will tend to arise again and again, threatening the establishment that suppressed them... The Old Woman, who acknowledges no master, may be our best guide in this long, dark, labyrinthine spiritual journey."
Name:Anchorite •
Date: 05/22/07 5:44
A: Dear JMD,
I thank you for your interpretation. My own understanding of my poem was focused on the expression of the oneness of the universe etc. I realize now it uses certain undesirable forms. My apologies to you. I will be more careful in the future.
~Anchorite
Name:Panluna •
Date: 05/22/07 15:20
A: JMD,
I hold sway over my hubby by denying him a Snicker Bar--he won't get up and get it for himself.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 05/22/07 15:36
A: Anchorite,
As a fellow poet I learned to express myself the way I want to.if the reader has trouble accepting the work it's in that person's ballcourt.Why do you think poets are known as devils?( I believe it's a quote from Blake--I'm not sure)If you sacrifice your art to appease the public then you are no longer in control of your self-expression.I would no sooner tell Shakespeare how to write a play or tell Picasso how to paint a picture or you how to write your poetry.Feel free to express yourself the way you want--then join the Devil's club---you know the one that drives creative people. inside-out.....! And you write very well.Have you decided to publish a book yet?
Name:Not Dattaswami •
Date: 05/22/07 18:05
A: .
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/27/07 0:20
A: Anchorage, apology accepted, but why not just start a poetry thread? Put all your poems in there. Well, that's what I would do, but each to their own. Though I'd like to see people discuss things in here about this so-called 'heretical' topic - remember, you never have to agree with me on anything, - each to their own.
hmm... another paradox? is it the 'heretics' who had more of the truth all along than the 'orthodox' who claimed to be right about every thing?" Actually there is something about that in the Nag Hammadi! :b I'll dig it up one of these days...
The Cornerstone of Esoteric Christianity
by Rev. Carol E. Parrish-Harra, PhD
(Dec/1998)
"The Christian community needs to ask, "What happened to the biblical
reference to the Christ within, the hope of glory?" In the ancient mystical
teachings we learn that the "second coming" will be a perfected
consciousness of love-wisdom such as the Christ possessed. This vision for humanity is the cornerstone of esoteric Christianity."
"Historical creeds of all religions have some aspect deeply preserved until the aspirant is prepared or experiencing little-understood spiritual
phenomena. At that point, the adage, "When the student is ready, the
teacher appears, truly seems to work." Someone will reach out and, if only for a brief time, guide the one in need across troubled waters to safety.
To begin to explain Esoteric Christianity requires boldness, audacity, and tenacity. It can be endless in definition because it transforms the
experiencer and the experience redefines the faith. However, as
contemporary Christians find themselves needing a greater personal
sense of intimacy (not dogma or doctrine) with their spiritual Source,
this recognizable route to God gradually emerges, expanding our spiritual experiences.
A major challenge for many is whether esoteric, or mystical, Christianity,
as some call it, involves God or Jesus. Esoteric Christians believe Master Jesus, the Christ, pointed followers to the Father, as he affirmed he "and the Father are one." The symbology of Oneness is important to esotericists as they lift their thinking to identify with Soul, rather than personality. I am the Soul affirms this new identity.
A major adjustment is to learn to live "as a soul having a human experience," rather than to relate so strongly with personality stuff. This ability to shift identity is a major effort of transformation: "Know Thyself." The concept of the mystical body of Christ focuses our soul identity to Oneness and aligns Esoteric Christianity to the kabalistic concept of Adam Kadmon, the heavenly human."
"The great commandment expands all of us beyond comfortable personality boundaries and into the energy of the soul--Lots Of Vital Energy. Then we bring our attunement Earthward from the higher dimensions into the world around us, acting upon it to bring transformative influences to daily life.
We expand the Christian vision by fulfilling it on a one-to-one basis. Spiritual laws and the love of Christ form the foundation upon which we carry out our part of the Christ mission."
"Fears around mystical moments, hard-to-grasp experiences, or phenomena often caused the wise one, the shaman, or the astrologer to be suspect. Persecution kept those with access to such wisdom quiet, guarding what they knew. The Inquisition murdered thousands of women who were the healers and visionaries of their people. Call it magic or folk wisdom, it cost them their lives."
"Yet at troublesome or pain-filled moments, all of us call out to the heavens: "Why?" "Is this all there is?" We invoke divine help, and doors often open at such power-filled moments."
______
[I haven't read the following book, so can't comment on it, but I do like much of what is said here.]
"The Mystic Christ
By Ethan Walker III
Mysticism; Gnosticism the spiritual path of experiencing God directly within one's own self.
The Mystic Christ reveals the life and teachings of Jesus to be an ancient tale of mystic union, salvation, and enlightenment. It is the careful uncovering of a lost treasure of immeasurable value, long buried in the suffocating darkness of conventional orthodoxy on one side, and blind fundamentalist extremism on the other. From the viewpoint of the world’s mystical religious traditions, the brilliant light of Jesus’ way is revealed as a penetrating radical non-duality unifying all people and all of life. The Master’s path to this all-embracing unity is the spiritual practice of pure selfless love. Love God intensely, love our neighbor as our own Self, bless those that curse us, and pray for those that mistreat
us. Love has been lost, becoming nothing more than a word in the dictionary and, yet, it remains the foundation of Jesus’ message.
The Mystic Christ is also a compelling story of the ego, the personification of ignorance, and how it has distorted and subverted the sublime sayings of Jesus, twisting reality into unreality and light into darkness. The ego is the Antichrist in this ancient drama that has gripped every culture for all time in its talons of self-centered perception.
Adam and Eve were not the first people, the nature of man is good,
scripture is not infallible, Jesus is one of the ways, all religions are paths to God, reincarnation is in the Bible, the resurrection is a personal spiritual awakening, and the error of eternal damnation are all carefully and lovingly revealed in the life and sayings of Jesus.
The Mystic Christ is thoroughly punctuated with quotes from masters
of the mystical traditions such as Buddha, Krishna , and Lao Tzu as
well as the Gnostic gospels. But, most importantly, over 230
scriptural references from the Old and New Testament are used to
illustrate the harmony that exists between the life and teachings of
Jesus and the world’s great religions.
With the skill of a surgeon and the wisdom of Socrates, Walker
removes 2000 years of ego-centered bindings that have hidden the
brilliant light of Jesus from the world. Walker artfully peels away
centuries of abuse by the my-way-or-the-highway pirates of religion.
He gives Jesus back to the hearts and souls of a humanity that
yearns for the love of the Divine. He reveals a Jesus that is
positively enchanting for practitioners of any spiritual discipline.
The Mystic Christ is at once profoundly fascinating, deeply historic
and electric with the vibration of the mystical experience.. Love was the path that the Master taught for attaining the Supreme.
Jesus never said he was the “only way”
The Master taught that the kingdom of God is within you"
___
[hmmm.... what about "Mary known as the Master" ? Is she our teacher too? the "co-Master?" though many have changed their minds on that one. Well, she is 'Master' for me - personally speaking, that is. -especially since, again personally speaking, she is the 'true' Bride of Christ.
more later...
JMD
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/27/07 0:23
A: I meant anchorite ! not anchorage - sorry about that! [I was sailing earlier....guess that was it?]
Meditations
For- Services of the Holy Sophia
in the Month of May
Calling to remembrance our most holy, undefiled, most blessed and glorious Lady, the Mother of the aeons and ever blessed Sophia, let us pray:
O Gentle, O Kind, O Blessed Sophia, we Thy children on earth call unto Thee. We pray Thee, Beloved agent of our redemption to unveil for us the face of our Holy Guardian Angel, the blessed twin of our souls and to gather us home to the realms of light.
And thou gladsome radiance of the holy glory of the Father immortal, heavenly holy, blessed Christ, who hast rescued the holy Sophia from the dark chaos; assisted by her loving aid do thou rescue us also from the chaos of this lower aeon and forgive us our faults now and forever more.
Amen.
THE GOSPEL
The Gospel is taken from the Sophia of Jesus Christ:
The Saviour said: All who come into the world like a drop from the Light, are sent by him to the world of the false ruler and are watched by him...But I came from the places above by the will of the great Light, I who escaped from the bond of the false ruler, I have cut off the work of the robbers, I have wakened that drop of light that was sent from Sophia that it might bear much fruit through me and be perfected and not again be defective but be joined through me together. So that Sophia might also be justified and become a saviour and that her children might not again become defective but might attain honor and glory and go up to their Father and know the words of the first great Light."
JM:D
Name:Panluna •
Date: 05/28/07 15:37
A: JMD
"heretics and orthodox claim to be right about everything"--that's a paradox----depends on how the shoe fits.What does the Sophia mean?Is it a word for wisdom or a form of the Goddess?
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/29/07 8:38
A: Sophia is Wisdom. Also, where do you think the word 'Philo-sophy' comes from? :D
from Jung site:
"Sophia in her early form:
The earliest forms of Sophia emphasized her power and influence on earth and in the human psyche. In the ancient text of Hypostasis of the Archons, found at Nag Hammadi, it is written that Sophia preexisted and gave birth to the male godhead. She chastises his arrogance when he says there is no other god before him. She claims her spiritual authority. She says “you are wrong, Samuel” (meaning Lord of the blind) and stretches forth her finger to send light into matter. She then follows the light down into the region of “Chaos.”
This power of Sophia within the earth realm was seen in early visions: “I am nature, the universal mother, mistress of all the elements, primordial child of time, sovereign of all things spiritual, queen of the dead, queen of the immortals, My nod governs the shining heights of heaven, the wholesome sea breezes, the lamentable silences of the world below. I know the cycles of growth and decay.”
Certainly, from the beginning of time Sophia has been represented by the Great Mother from whom all life arises and is sustained. She was worshipped from 25,000 to 5,000 BC, an immense period of time in human history. Her fecundity is honored in the corpulent statue of Venus of Willendorf
Themes of the intertwining of nature and spirit, and the paradox of life and death are everywhere in images of the Great Feminine. In ancient Mesopotamia, she was depicted as Ishtar, with a winged headdress and holding the ring of divine authority. She was sculpted with owls at her feet representing the secrets of the underworld and death.
In pre-dynastic Egypt she was often shown as a bird goddess with her arms uplifted, again like wings. Another frequent association was with the lion: a fire symbol. This theme was evident in the statues of Sekhmet. It was said that Sekhmet, carrying the paradox of fierce feminine power, would return in times of epoch change. The New York Times reports that 17 statues of Sekhmet have been found at Luxor in March 2006.
The uniting of paradoxes is evident in Isis: the great Goddess of the two lands of light and dark of Egypt. She is the agent for the resurrection of Osiris; by conceiving Horus, she brings forth the basic symbol of transformation in the uniting of the paradoxes."
Name:Panluna •
Date: 05/29/07 22:48
A: Is it possible that those winged Gods/Goddesses could be Phanes/Eros who was considered an hermophodite? The lion was one of his animals.He inspired the last tarot card, The World, in the Major Arcana.Isis was winged and so was Azuzu--an ancient Baylonian Goddess of bad weather and bad luck.
Name:JMD •
Date: 05/30/07 8:40
A: I don't know Panluna - you'll have to go within and ask yourself. I can only find my truth, by myself, by going within.
-JMD
Schadenfreude
The secret enemy whose sleepless eye
Stands sentimental, accuser, judge and spy
The foe, the fool, the jealous and the vain
The envious who but breathe in others' pain
Behold the hose, delighting to deprave
Who traces the steps of glory to the grave
Watch every fault that daring genius owes
Half to the ardour which its birth bestows
Distort the truth, accumulate the lie
And pile the pyramid of calumny
Name:Panluna •
Date: 05/30/07 15:10
A: Yes JMD,
the truth lies within
ready to be uncovered
ready to be unbound
in the eye of the Beholder
set free to take flight
like the stars at night
or the butterflies in sunlight.
Joy is in the epiphany
the awakening of soul.
then sharing those secrets
from the voices of old
are born the new ideas
Panluna Phanes
From The Magica Papyri
Name:JMD •
Date: 06/02/07 2:36
A: "The social activism of the 1960s and the 'consciousness revolution' of the early 1970s seemed to be moving toward a historic synthesis: social transformation resulting from personal transformation - change from the inside out. In January 1976, I published an editorial, 'The Movement That Has No Name.' It said in part: 'Something remarkable is underway. It is moving with almost dizzying speed, but it has no name and eludes description. . .
The spirit of our age is fraught with paradox. It is at the same time pragmatic and transcendental. It values both enlightenment and mystery . . . power and humility
. . . interdependence and individuality. It is simultaneously political and apolitical. Its movers and shakers include individuals who are impeccably Establishment allied with one-time sign-carrying radicals. . . 'it' has infected medicine, education, social science, hard science, even government with its implications. It is characterized by fluid organizations, reluctant to create hierarchical structures, averse to dogma. . . It seems to speak to something very old. . . "
". . . Whatever their station or sophistication, the conspirators are linked, made kindred by their inner discoveries and earthquakes. You can break through old limits, past inertia and fear, to levels of fulfillment that once seemed impossible . . . Problems can be experienced as challenges, a chance for renewal, rather than stress. Habitual defensiveness and worry can fall away. It can all be otherwise . . .
-Marilyn Ferguson"The Aquarian Conspiracy: Personal and Social Transformation in the 1980s"
Zen/Meditation/Quotes...
Which way
did you come from
following dream paths
at night
while snow is still deep
in this mountain recess?
-Ryokan
Awakened within a dream
I fall into my own arms
... What kept you so long?
-Lou Hartman
A monk said 'What is this talk?'
The master said 'When I talk you don't hear it'
The monk said 'Do you hear it, sir?'
The master said 'Wait till I don't talk, then you hear it'
...Gazing at the moon all night
I chant poems
getting lost in flowers
I don't come home...
-Ryokan
After the final no
there comes a yes
And on that yes
the future of the world depends.
- Wallace Stevens
Among other creatures
this is what I was
Abilities depend on the realm
realm also depends on abilities
At birth I forgot completely
by which path I came
I don't know, these years
which school of monk I am
-Ikkyu
During dinner one night at San Francisco Zen Center someone asked
'How do you cook enlightenment?'
A young woman said, 'Over Easy.'
From now on
a nameless traveler
winter's first rain
-Basho
Seung Sahn: 'When you eat, just eat. When you read the newspaper
just read the newspaper.'
One day a student saw him reading the newspaper while he
was eating. The student asked if this did not contradict his teaching?
Seung Sahn said, 'When you eat and read the newspaper, just eat and
read the newspaper.'
A student asked Soen Nakagawa during a meditation retreat
'I am very discouraged. What should I do?'
Soen replied 'Encourage others.'
Zen is a teaching about how we can sit with stillness in the midst
of our self, our heart, our breath and the world, and then to let them open
into our wider self and into the world of other people. In this mind, the world passes transparently through us and we start to feel how there is neither outside nor inside..
-Richard Baker
Let go of hundreds of years
and relax completely
Open your hands and walk, innocent
Thousands of words
myriad interpretations
are only to free you from obstructions
If you want to know the undying person in the hut
don't separate from this skin bag here and now
-Shitou
Be soft in your practice
Think of the method as a
fine silvery stream
not a raging waterfall
Follow the stream
have faith in its course
It will go its own way
meandering here
trickling there
It will find the grooves
the cracks
the crevices
Just follow it
never let it out of your sight
It will take you.
-Sheng-yen
The moon
Abiding in the midst of
serene mind
billows break
into Light
-Dogen
If you're afraid of being grabbed by God
don't look at a wall
Definitely don't sit still
-Jiyu Kennett
Watermelons and Zen students
grow pretty much the same way
Long periods of sitting
till they ripen and grow
all juicy inside, but
when you knock them on the head
to see if they're ready -
sounds like nothing's going on
-Peter Levitt
People ask for the road
to Cold Mountain
but no road reaches
Cold Mountain
Summer sky -
still ice won't melt
the Sun comes out
but gets obscured by the mist
Imitating me
where does that get you?
My mind isn't like yours
when your mind
is like mine
you can enter here
-Hanshan
In original nature
There is no this or that
The Great Round Mirror
Has no likes or dislikes
-Seung Sahn
Seekers after truth are schooled in adversity. When they are confronted by a hindrance, they can't be overcome. Then, cutting free, their treasure is great
-Kyong Ho
Scalding coffee from a freezing cup
At the rim no telling
Which is which
-Lou Hartman
Great Doubt
Most of the work with a koan takes place alone while sitting zazen, because in reality there's nothing anyone can give us. There's nothing that we lack. Each one of us is perfect and complete, lacking nothing. That's why it is said that there are no Zen teachers and nothing to teach. But this truth must be realized by each one of us. Great faith, great doubt, and great determination are three essentials for that realization. It is a boundless faith in oneself and in the ability to realize oneself and make oneself free, and a deep and penetrating doubt which asks: Who am I? What is life? What is truth? What is God? What is reality? This great faith and great doubt are in dynamic tension with each other, and work to provide the real cutting edge of koan practice...when also accompanied by great determination.. we have at our disposal the power necessary to break through our delusive way of thinking and realize the full potential of our lives.
-John Daido Loori
The Sixth Ancestor Huineng came across two monks who were arguing about a banner flapping in the wind. One said 'The banner is moving.' The other said 'The wind is moving.' They went back and forth without coming to agreement.
The Sixth Ancestor said, 'It's not that the wind is moving; it's not that the banner moves; it's your mind that is moving'
Under the trees
among the rocks
a thatched hut
Verses and sacred commentaries
live there together
I'll burn the books
I carry in my bag
but how can I forget
the verses written in my gut?
-Ikkyu
It is the 'try' that is the more often counted as
righteousness, and 'not' the success or failure.
-Edgar Cayce
Indifference clad in wisdom's guise
All fortitude of mind supplies
Water, Rivers, Fountains
Our bodies are molded rivers
-Novalis
...drawn up the hillside at incalculable cost and labour
a thousand rills gush downward
terrace by terrace
channeling the stone rails of the balusters
leaping from step to step
dripping
into mossy conches
flashing in spray
from the horns of sea-gods
and the jaws of mythical monsters
or forcing
themselves in irrepressible overflow
down the ivy-matted banks.
-Edith Wharton
The underlying attraction of the movement of water and sand is biological. If we look more deeply we can see it as the basis of an abstract idea linking ourselves with the limitless mechanics of the universe.
-Sir Geoffrey Jellicoe
Children of a culture born
in a water-rich environment
we have never really learned
how important water is to us
We understand it
but we do not respect it
-William Ashworth
Millions long for immortality
who do not know
what to do with themselves
on a rainy Sunday afternoon
-Susan Ertz
Truths are first clouds
then rain
then harvest and food
-Henry Ward Beecher
The trees reflected in the river
they are unconscious
of a spiritual world so near to them
So are we
-Nathaniel Hawthorne
For fountains
they are a Great Beauty
and Refreshment
-Sir Francis Bacon, Of Gardens, 1625
Fountains indicate and signal well-being to all. Not only that, they share their Karmic energy with all who see, hear, smell, taste and touch them. They are, and always have been, necessary for permanent settlements. We use them when ever we turn on a tap. Fountains have come to symbolize the generosity of a god, an institution or a person. They indicate abundance and ingenuity. In every culture they play a part in the mythology of life.
- Bryan R. Hirst, Fountains
Rain down your wisdom
in sacred streams
to carry me like an
upturned leaf
through the currents
of this gray day
Innumerable as the
stars of night
Or stars of morning
dewdrops which the sun
Impearls on every leaf
and every flower
- John Milton
Like swift water
an active mind
never stagnates
A pool is the eye
of the garden
in whose candid depths
is mirrored
its advancing grace
-Lousie Bebe Wilder
I came where the river
Ran over stones
My ears knew
An early joy
And all the waters
Of all the streams
Sang in my veins
That summer day
-Theodore Roethke, The Waking, 1948
I wield the flail of the lashing hail
And whiten the green plains under
And then again I dissolve it in rain
And laugh as I pass in thunder
-Percy Bysshe Shelley, The Cloud, 1792 - 1822
The bare earth, plantless, waterless, is an immense puzzle. In the forests or beside rivers everything speaks to humans. The desert does not speak. I could not comprehend its tongue; its silence....
-Pablo Neruda
Love is like dew
that falls on both
nettles and lilies
-Swedish Proverb
The river moves
from land to water to land
in and out of organisms
reminding us what native peoples
have never forgotten:
that you cannot
separate the land
from the water
or the people
from the land
-Lynn Noel
According to Democritus, truth lies at the bottom of a well, the water
of which serves as a mirror in which objects may be reflected. I have
heard, however, that some philosophers, in seeking for truth, to pay
homage to her, have seen their own image and adored it instead.
-Charles Richter
On some of the rocks
are timeless raindrops
Under the rocks
are the words
and some of the words
are theirs
I am haunted by waters
-Norman Maclean, A River Runs Through It
To the waters, and the wild, with a Faerie, hand in hand,
for the world is morefull of weeping ... than you can understand.
-W.B. Yeats
Constant dripping
hollows out a stone.
-Lucretius
Have you watched the fairies
when the rain is done
Spreading out their little wings
to dry them in the sun?
-Rose Fyleman
The sound of the water
says what I think.
-Chuang Tzu
The land was dead and desert
So that they lost the voices of the wells
And the maidens who were in them
-'Elucidations,' Prologue to Chretien de Troyes' Perceval
For many of us, water simply flows from a faucet, and we
think little about it beyond this point of contact. We have lost
a sense of respect for the wild river, for the complex workings
of a wetland, for the intricate web of life that water supports.
-Sandra Postel
We call upon the waters
that rim the earth
horizon to horizon
that flow in our rivers and streams
that fall upon our gardens and fields
and we ask that they teach us
and show us the way
-Chinook Indian Blessing
Ancient traditions have long associated holy wells and springs as very special places of the Goddess or anima mundi: symbolic of the Great Mother and associated with birth, the feminine principle, the universal womb, the prima materia, the waters of fertility and refreshment and the fountain of life. The dreaming sites, as they are called, have also been associated with visions, healing, and other paranormal experiences. In ancient Greece, for example, there were more than three-hundred medical centers placed at water sources, where patients experienced healing.
-Christopher and Tricia McDowell, The Sanctuary Garden, 1998
Students of mythology find that when the feminine principle is subjected to sustained attack, as it was from the medieval Christian authorities, it often quietly submerges. Under the water (where organic life began) it swims through the subconscious of the dominant male society, occasionally bobbing to the surface to offer a glimpse of the rejected harmony.
-Franz Cumont
Come to me from Crete
To this, your sacred temple
Here, to this gracious glade of apples
And altars thick with incense
Here, cool water bubbles up
Through broken apple-boughs
In a clearing shaded all with roses
And quivering leaves drip enchantment
Here, meadow grass that feeds strong horses
Concedes to a riot of spring flowers
And soft honeyed breezes blow
-Sappho
"Once upon a time so the legend goes, the maidens of the sacred wells offered spring water to passers by. Then along came the evil King Amangons and his soldiers, who carried the maidens off. In 'real' European history, the Christian church repressed water cults and often built religious communities around springs or wells, appropriating the sacred waters for itself. In his book The Holy Grail, Malcolm Godwin reports that this fanatical zeal 'was in bleak contrast to the healing and nurturing powers of the Black Virgins. Behind this dark female face was a hidden Catharic leap in consciousness...' Could the production team in the dream represent the potential sacking of the sacred waters? Jean Shinoda Bolen described in her book, Crossing to Avalon, how Chartres Cathedral was built over the Druid's sanctuary of sanctuaries, on
a mound where there was a sacred wood and a well called 'The Well of the Strong'. Carved in the hollowed-out trunk of a pear tree there was a statue of a dark woman or a goddess with an infant on her knees.
The Grail Legend warns of three unhealing wounds: the destruction of nature, the individual wounded in soul or spirit, and suppression of the feminine archetype. Water, the life blood of Mother Nature, or Gaia, embodying the feminine mysteries, is surely the healer of these wounds. When you sit in a sweat lodge, you are enfolded in Grandmother Earth. When you float in water, you reenter the womb. Water has been linked in mythology to the unconscious, to the feminine or yin nature, and to gentle but persistent power. In the Grail Legend, the hero/ine - the one who is eventually to Free the Waters - has to discover the meeting place between worlds (conscious and unconscious) and to re-establish the precious links with nature. More and more people are realizing how much they miss the wilderness and are wanting to retreat to it, to restore it and themselves. Water is an essential element of this healing. It is available to both men and women but women may be leading the way."
Name:Panluna •
Date: 06/02/07 14:24
A: JMD,
What did you think of my poem to you?It's about Gnosis.
Name:JMD •
Date: 06/15/07 14:37
A: Per Harold Bloom, "Omens of Millennium: The Gnosis of Angels, Dreams, and Resurrection" [1996]:
"Gilbert Keith Chesterton, shrewdest of modern Catholic writers, warned, '[T]hat Jones shall worship the god within him turns out ultimately to mean that Jones shall worship Jones.' Mere Gnosticism badly needs to be distinguished from such large self-worship; Bloom does not wish to worship Bloom, that after all not being much of a religious experience. Our contemporary debasement of Gnosticism goes under the name of the New Age, a panoply wide enough to embrace Shirley MacLaine and Mrs. Arianna Huffington, in which Ms. MacLaine worships Ms. MacLaine (with some justification) and Mrs. Huffington reveres Mrs. Huffington (with perhaps less)....
..mere Gnosticism, as I conceive it, is rather more modest, and can be less ecstatically conveyed. Return again to your own earliest memories, not of your contexts nor of your empirical self, but of your deeper self, your sense of your own individuality..."
"...Can there be a Gnosis of the world to come, here and elsewhere, or does authentic Gnosis confine itself to the timeless knowing of one's own deep self?
Knowing the spark that is the inmost self necessarily involves knowing the self's potential. If we are fragments of what once was a Fullness, the Pleroma as ancient Gnostics called it, then we can know what once we were and what we might yet be again..."
"There always is a world to come, not a world elsewhere, but one to be known here and now. The most universal prophet of this knowing seems the highly heterodox Jesus of The Gospel of Thomas..."
"I have remarked more than once in this book that I endorse the surmises of those who have identified the congregation of James the Just with a Jewish Gnosticism that preceded Jesus, and to which Jesus adhered, though scholars as eminent as Hans Jonas have doubted that a Jewish Gnosticism ever existed...."
"Martin Hengel, in his 'Judaism and Hellenism', speaks of the Essenes as being among the earliest 'Jewish magicians,' exorcising illnesses by their angelic power, rather in the mode of Jesus..."
"..Hengel affirms that 'the first beginnings of Jewish Gnosticism probably
developed in heterodox Jewish Samaritan groups,' presumably like the one led by the notorious Simon Magus, but quite possibly also involving John the Baptist. Our ideas of Gnosticism have been debased by many centuries of normative Jewish silence and dogmatic Christian libel, and even Simon Magus may be a victim of Pauline Christian defamation. The enemies of Gnosis were and are triumphant, but only in the organizational and political sense. Historically they seem to have won,
but all victories over the spirit remain forever equivocal, and the spark or deepest self is never quite snuffed out..." :D
______
From 'The Gospel of Philip', N.H. Library:
"It is from water and fire that the soul and the spirit came into being. It is from water and fire and light that the son of the bridal chamber (came into being). The fire is the chrism, the light is the fire. I am not referring to that fire which has no form, but to the other fire whose form is white, which is bright and beautiful, and which gives beauty."
"Those who sow in winter reap in summer. The winter is the world, the summer the other eternal realm. Let us sow in the world that we may reap in the summer. Because of this it is fitting for us not to pray in the winter. Summer follows winter. But if any man reap in winter he will not actually reap but only pluck out, since it will not provide a harvest for such a person."
"Names given to the worldly are very deceptive, for they divert our thoughts from what is correct to what is incorrect. Thus one who hears the word 'God' does not percieve what is correct, but perceives what is incorrect. So also with 'the father' and 'the son' and 'the holy spirit' and 'life' and 'light' and 'resurrection' and 'the church' and all the rest - people do not perceive what is correct but they perceive what is incorrect, [unless] they have come to know what is correct. [the words refer to what is real]. The [names which are heard] are in the world [deceive. If they]
were in the eternal realm, they would at no time be used as names in the world. Nor were they set among worldly things. They have an end in the eternal realm."
"Truth, which existed since the beginning, is sown everywhere. And many see it being sown, but few are they who see it being reaped."
"And the lord [would] not have said 'My [father who is in] heaven' unless [he] had had another father, but he would have said simply '[My father]'.
" 'Jesus' is a hidden name, 'Christ' is a revealed name. For this reason 'Jesus' is not particular to any language; rather he is always called by the name 'Jesus.' While as for 'Christ,' in Syriac it is 'Messiah,' in Greek it is 'Christ.' Certainly all the others have it according to their own language. 'The Nazarene' is he who reveals what is hidden. Christ has everything in himself, whether man or angel or mystery, and the
father."
"It is through water and fire that the whole place is purified - the visible by visible, the hidden by the hidden. There are some things hidden through those visible. There is water in water, there is fire in chrism."
"It is not possible for anyone to see anything of the things that actually exist unless he becomes like them. This is not the way with man in the world: he sees the sun without being a sun; and he sees the heaven and the earth and all other things, but he is not these things. This is quite in keeping with the truth. But you (sg.) saw something of that place, and you became those things."
"Spiritual love is wine and fragrance. All those who anoint themselves with it take pleasure in it. While those who are anointed are present, those nearby also profit (from the fragrance)."
"Faith receives, love gives. [No one will be able to receive] without faith. No one will be able to give without love. Because of this, in order that we may indeed receive, we believe, and in order that we may love, we give, since if one gives without love, he has no profit from what he has given."
"Farming in the world requires the cooperation of four essential elements. A harvest is gathered into the barn only as a result of the natural action of water, earth, wind and light. God's farming likewise has four elements - faith, hope, love, and knowledge. Faith is our earth, that in which we take root. [And] hope is the water through which we are nourished. Love is the wind through which we grow. Knowledge then is the light through which we [ripen]."
"For so long as the root of wickedness is hidden, it is strong. But when it is recognized it is dissolved. When it is revealed it perishes. That is why the word says, 'Already the ax is laid at the root of the trees' (Mt 3:10). It will not merely cut - what is cuts sprouts again - but the ax penetrates deeply until it brings up the root. Jesus pulled out the root of the whole place, while others did it only partially. As for ourselves, let each one of us dig down after the root of evil which is within one, and let one pluck it out of one's heart from the root. It will be plucked out if we recognize it. But if we are ignorant of it, it takes root in us and produces its fruit in
our heart. It masters us. We are its slaves. It takes us captive, to make us do what we do [not] want; and what we do want we do [not] do. It is powerful because we have not recognized it."
"For truth is like ignorance: while it is hidden it rests in itself, but when it is revealed and is recognized, it is praised inasmuch as it is stronger than ignorance and error. It gives freedom. The word said, 'If you (pl.) know the truth, the truth will make you free' (Jn 8:32). Ignorance is a slave. Knowledge is freedom. If we know the truth, we shall find the fruits of the truth within us. If we are joined to it, it will bring our fulfillment."
[the following translations, Gospel of Philip, are from the book 'The Gospels of Mary' by Marvin Meyer]:
"If you say 'I am a Jew,' no one will be moved. If you say, 'I am a Roman,' no one will be disturbed. If you say 'I am a Greek, barbarian, slave, free,' no one will be troubled. If you say, 'I am a Christian,' the [world] will be shaken. May I [receive the one] whose name the [world] cannot bear to hear."
"The apostles said to the disciples, 'May our entire offering be provided with salt.' For they called [wisdom] salt. Without it an offering is unacceptable. Wisdom is barren [with no] children, and so she is called [the pillar] of salt.' "
(Wisdom=Sophia)
"People cannot see anything that really is without becoming like it. It is not so with people in the world, who see the sun without becoming the sun and see the sky and earth and everything else without becoming them."
"..Here in the world you see everything but do not [see] yourself, but there in that realm you see yourself, and you will [become] what you see."
____
From Apocalypse of Peter, NH Library:
"For many will accept our teaching in the beginning. And they will turn from them again by the will of the Father of their error, because they have done what he wanted. And he will reveal them in his judgment, i.e. the servants of the Word. But those who became mingled with these shall become their prisoners, since they are without perception...
And they praise the men of propagation of falsehood, those who will come after you. And they will cleave to the name of a dead man, thinking that they will become pure. But they will become greatly defiled and they will fall into a name of error, and into the hand of an evil, cunning man and a manifold dogma, and they will be ruled heretically."
"...And there shall be others of those who are outside our number who name themselves bishop and also deacons, as if they have received authority from God. They bend themselves under the judgment of the leaders. Those people are dry canals."
______
"The best way out is always through."
-Robert Frost
"Stand up and be counted, or do not stand at all."
-Charles Ditlefsen
"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you can not do."
-Walter Bagehot
"If your eye is sound, your whole body will be full of light."
(Matt. 6:22).
____
"It Fills You Up"
(from a song by Van Morrison)
"There's something going on
It fill you up, it fill you up, it fill you up now
There's something going on
It fill you up, it fill you up, it fill you up now
But you don't know what it is
And you don't know what it is
And you don't have to know.
Within this melody
It fill you up, it fill you up, it fill you up now
There's more than you can see
It fill you up, it fill you up, it fill you up now
There's another realm
And there's another world
Filled with kings and queens.
That's why you got to face the facts
It fill you up, it fill you up, it fill you up now..."
___
The Gospel of Thomas:
Jesus said "Images are visible to people, but the light within them is hidden in the image of the father's light. He will be disclosed, but his image is hidden by his light."
Jesus said, "Blessings on the person who knows at what point the robbers are going to enter, so that [he] may arise, bring together his estate, and arm himself before they enter."
"As for you, then, be on guard against the world. Arm yourselves with great strength, or the robbers might find a way to get to you, for the trouble you expect will come. Let there be among you a person who understands. When the crop ripened, the person came quickly with sickle in hand and harvested it. Whoever has ears to hear should hear."
JMD
Name:JMD •
Date: 06/19/07 11:38
A: I hope to do another post soon for this thread, but need more time; maybe by the coming weekend. I have today off, but am going to take time for just me.
For now, here's something I recently read, -and I add a few comments here and there - and thought I'd post here.
Well, I wouldn't want to go to Israel anyway, as it is not a place I care to travel to, not at this point in time at least, but look at the NY Israeli consulate, being a bunch of 'good ol' boys'. *rolls eyes at their immaturity*
"Israeli consulate invitation slammed as 'pornographic'
Invitation sent by consulate in New York has female MKs wondering if making Israel tourist-relevant means advertising sex
Amnon Meranda Published: 06.18.07, 12:26 / Israel Travel
Female Knesset members are outraged: A photo of former Miss Israel Gal Gadot, wearing nothing but a skimpy bikini, appeared on a formal invitation to an event being held by the Israeli consulate in New York.
"This pornographic campaign sponsored by the Foreign and Tourism Ministries is an outrage," MK Colette Avital (Labor), former Consul-General to New York said Monday.
"Israel's image has been tainted by sex-scandals involving high-ranking officials as it is."
[well, some men are full of lust, and are sluts; so what are you gonna do? Though I wouldn't call it 'porno' per se, not a woman in a bikini. Treating women like sex objects, yes I call it that, but you'll never get rid of that, as for now we live in an imperfect, unbalanced, earthly world.]
"I wonder if the best way to encourage tourism is by advertising sex," she added."
[for some it is, as sex is just about all they think about -poor lost souls.]
"The invitation
Avital approached Knesset Speaker Dalia Itzik demanding an urgent session be called to discuss the matter.
MK Zahava Gal-On, chairwoman of Meretz, seconded Avital's feelings: 'It's unfortunate that the Israeli consulate chose to emphasize Israel's relevance with a portrait of a half-naked woman, instead of with one of women of substance and accomplishments,' she said.' "
[hatred and fear of women is still very much a disease in this earthly world, so treating them like sex objects is what 'some' men want, due to these immature men being psychologically messed up. Strong, intelligent, independent women, with minds of their own, who respect and love themselves, well, they feel threatened by that, so they like to ridicule/insult/oppress as much as they can - which is why I've put up with tons of ridicule/hatred in my life, but it doesn't bother me. It's not what they think of me that counts, it's what I think of them that counts. :b]
"We found that Israel's image among men aged 18-38 is lacking," explained David Saranga, consul for media and public affairs at the consulate, "so we thought we'd approach them with an image they'd find appealing."
Their image is 'lacking' and this is the best you can do?! And what about image among women? Oh well, they don't care about that. This is one messed up, crazy world we live in.... more reason to spend time in the kingdom within.... see ya,
JMD
Name:Panluna •
Date: 06/19/07 15:26
A: JMD,
The one true gift each of owns is the kingdom within.
I would like to visit the Middle Eastern countries sometime in the future--especially Isreal.And sometimes it's a good idea to be a cultural cameleon and blend in --then we can learn more as long you don't lose sight of yourself and what is important to you.We do live in a crazy mixed up world and it's always been like this.As long as you know yourself then you've been saved from it's insanity.You can't save others---they have to do that for themselves.It's self-realization.Free the mind.
Name:JMD •
Date: 06/20/07 21:30
A: Ah, but what do you see and hear when you go within to the Kingdom? That is the difference. What do you see and hear? Do you fly while within the kingdom? Have you experienced being a tree, a flower, a waterfall, a fountain, the ocean, the sun, etc.?
*big joyful grin*
JMD
Name:Panluna •
Date: 06/20/07 22:32
A: JMD,
I've felt like I was connected with everything.Always remember to ground yourself with a glass of water when you are finished with your meditation.
Enjoy the astral-flight and the images.
Name:JMD •
Date: 06/22/07 0:33
A: The thing is, these days, I'm sorta constantly in a meditative/reflective state of mind, so drink water... whenever. And I think finding a new 'social services' job would help me immensely, least a part time one; and go part time with the job I have now; I'm overworked and underpaid for all I do.. (not to mention, I get no benefits with the job I have now, lovely, eh? So I think I'll cash in part of my pension and have a vacation.) Not enough help, with the job I do now, so I'm worn out, so time for me to move on to other things. Maybe write some articles, too? Or poetry? Or work on my novel? Part of my spiritual path could be thrown in to the novel. :D
JMD
Name:Panluna •
Date: 06/22/07 13:07
A: JMD,
Good luck with the changes in your life's path.Maybe your Higher -self is trying to tell you something.I have an idea for a novel I want to write but I'm still germinating ideas---just not enough info to really flesh it out.Usually I write poetry and I've written some very long lyrical ones.
You must have reached a really good meditative vibration to remain bouyant.I found that drinking a glass of water after meditating and eating a piece of fruit helps to achieve grounding.A Reiki healer friend of mine suggested it to me.But there is nothing wrong with that cheerful fog that a good session with the Psyche brings out even though it does wear off.You can always meditate again to reach that natural high or get focused.
Name:JMD •
Date: 06/23/07 1:14
A: Thanks, Panluna! Well, keep plugging away at your novel - and your poems. I'm still at the research stage of mine, mostly. I was into Robert Graves Myths, taking notes, just before the 'Jesus Family Tomb' was announced in NY, so I put the Greek myths aside. I've had several coincidences as regards Greece; not sure what it's all about?
I'm currently working on a post as regards the Gospel of John, and will be coming from a mystical/inner perspective, and one about Jesus and the Feminine. I'm also working on a poem about Jerusalem, as it's something on my mind. If I do write it, and it's not 'too bad' :b I'll post it here, as well. And for July 22, Mary Magdalene's feast day, I hope to have something written up as regards synchronicity, and just thought her feast day would be a good time to post it.
Yes, I've had some amazing spiritual 'trips' on my path, as well as a lot of intuition/insight/gnosis, especially as of late; gifts of the spirit, you could say -thanks and appreciation for all my hard work over the years. I've earned it. :D And it's only recently I've been able to 'fly' in meditations, so that is a bonus as well.
This mystical experience, was, not too long ago, at times, a rough sea voyage, you could say; the most intense I've ever felt, but I just remained as calm and centred as possible, meditative, and just went with it. Usually the 'spiraling' as regards 'soul work' is much more gentle; least that's been my experience.
So due to where I'm at right now, I'd like to find somewhere quiet for vacation; a cabin on a lake or something like that? Not sure; just having time off to write, read, work on my spiritual scrapbook, would be enough; so I don't really have to 'go' anywhere.
There's a saying of Jesus' about 'whoever saves his life loses it, and whoever loses his life for the kingdom saves it.' This can and does describe a mystical experience - an 'inner' death; something old dies, so that something new and spiritual is born within you, within the kingdom.
"Nothing real can be accomplished in the mystical journey to Christ without learning - and learning at ever-greater depth and with an ever more acute and exacting fervor and sincerity - the 'feminine' wisdom of surrendering in trust and with an abandon of love to the mystery of ordeal. There can be no living in the glory of the resurrection without undergoing - and allowing oneself to undergo fully - the curcifixion; this entails a commitment, especially during the period known as the Dark Night of the Soul" [which I had about 16 years ago] "to a 'feminine' passivity that is not only unendurable to the ego but meant to be annihilating of it. Only years of sustained adoration of the divine feminine can give the seeker the final courage to endure the terms of such a surrender."
"Son of Man: The Mystical Path to Christ", Andrew Harvey
Peace,
JM:D
Name:JMD •
Date: 06/24/07 19:27
A: From an excellent book I'm currently reading, "What Shall I Do With This People? Jews and the Fractious Politics of Judaism", by Milton Viorst, 2002:
"For nearly two thousand years, rabbinic Judaism has held that Jews must obey God's dictates as expressed in the canon of religious law, known as the Halacha. A vast and complex work, Halacha is the product of many sources, but the legitimacy of all of them is, at least in theory, traced ultimately to the Torah, the first five books of the Bible."
"Rabbis traditionally regard the Torah, unlike 'wisdom' generally, as the exclusive possession of the Jews. The word Torah, which means 'guidance', is absent from the Bible, and appeared only in Talmudic times. More than half its text consists of laws for Jews to observe. The Torah's legal precepts take precedence over Prophets, the
Bible's second section..
The book of Exodus relates in detail God's imparting the law to Moses, particularly the Ten Commandments, the summary of His commands. Rabbinic tradition maintains that God dictated the entire Torah to Moses word for word, imbuing it with a pedigree of unparalleled holiness. Given this foundation, Orthodoxy regards Halacha, the Torah's direct product, as the essence of Judaism itself.
Very early in their history, however, the Israelites recognized problems with the Torah. Many of its precepts were simply statements of principle, frequently obscure and sometimes contradictory. Great gaps, moreover, existed in the laws of everyday life.
Equally exasperating, many popular customs, which the Israelites treated as law, were not 'rooted' in the Torah at all. From this they concluded that the Torah, however holy, could not, as a source of law, stand on its own.
The rabbinic solution was to complement the Torah with what was called Oral Law. The solution surely contradicted God's instructions: 'All this word which I command you to do, you shall not add or diminish thereto.' Rabbis decided, nonetheless, that Oral Law was necessary, and that its authority would be equal to that of the written word. This 'dualism' became intrinsic to rabbinic doctrine. For several thousand years, Jews have said they are ruled by two Torahs, equally divine, one written, the other oral.
Given the dynamism of human life, however, a law code, even though divine, cannot be static. If the Torah is permanent, society is fluid. One Talmudic text states that God taught Moses the principles of Halacha, acknowleging that, as law, not even the Torah was adequate for all time. Oral law provided the mechanism for change. Though God's law was immutable, said a great Torah scholar, it was subject to a constant 'process of renewal.' "
"The sage Hillel recognized the role of Oral Law in an early expression of the Golden Rule... The law, far from being chiseled in stone, is the interaction between the Torah and the Jew. The Torah, Hillel was saying, is only the 'seed' waiting to 'flower' with the 'waters' of commentary."
"...the Torah itself casts 'doubt' on the notion that its words were directly imparted by God alone. Scholars point to the Book of Deuteronomy, which differs from the Torah's other books in that the text is in Moses' voice, not God's.."
"...The [Talmudic] 'stories' suggest that God, in the Talmud's view, supports a legal system that the sages may modify to keep up with social needs. But in our own time, with society changing in kaleidoscopic fashion, the Orthodox rabbinate has allowed the law to fall behind. Claiming their 'hands are tied', the rabbis characteristically ignore the early sages who declared the law must be constantly reformulated to serve its age."
"Scholars point out that rabbis in the eighteenth century, when the Enlightenment inundated Western society with liberal ideas, reacted - MUCH AS THE PAPACY DID IN THE SAME PERIOD - [emphasis mine] by trying to 'freeze' time. New secular values filled them with 'dread'.
Overlooking the law's 'organic' character, Orthodoxy circled the wagons to keep these new values from penetrating the core of Jewish belief. It is
'clear' that, in 'seeking' to preserve the theological 'status quo' the rabbis also aimed to preserve their own traditional 'powers' within the Jewish community."
"Rabbis, of course, 'deny' a hostility to change and even 'boast' of their capacity to make Halachic adjustments to the shifting demands of modernity. To say the 'least', these adjustments have been modest in recent times. They may be best illustrated in Halachic modifications of the rules for observing the Sabbath, which Judaism regards as a joyous day, but whose 'limits' many believers find 'burdensome.' "
".... Known for his erudition, [Rabbi Adin] Steinsaltz is celebrated for making the Torah accessible to lay readers. Some years ago, he provoked controversy within Orthodox circles by suggesting that Jewish law was not delivered in final form at Sinai but has 'evolved' over time. An Ultra-Orthodox rabbi denounced him for contending that the law was the creation of man as well as God. Steinsaltz also upset the sages by arguing that historical, social and economic factors had always been involved in the lawmaking process.
Steinsaltz's work questioned whether Orthodoxy was more honest to Judaism by its complicity in rabbinic casuistry than were Jews who openly rejected traditional commands. Many rabbinic rulings, he argues, may end up being faithful to the Torah's words while clearly mocking its intent.
In the years after Israel's independence, Yeshayahu Leibowitz, a deeply observant Jew as well as a scientist and philosopher, created a 'stir' by contending that Halacha had little relevance to a modern Jewish state... Orthodoxy would be far stronger, he said, if its rabbis accepted Halacha as 'personal' commandments, of no concern to the state.
Unanimously, rabbinic Judaism rejected his ideas.Indeed, Orthodox rabbis, rejecting change on a grand scale, as Leibowitz proposed, have been no better on 'small' issues," [JMD say it's a BIG issue! - but then, to male supremacists it would be viewed as 'small'] "like the burdens imposed by Jewish law on agunot, 'CHAINED WIVES'. [emphasis mine]Agunot are women whose husbands are permitted by law to take new wives themselves, but refuse to grant them Halachic divorces, without which they cannot remarry or bear legitimate children."
"The 'imbalance' is a bestige of an era of Jewish polygamy, when the Torah permitted multiple marriages to men, while restricting women to a single spouse. In the Middle Ages, the rabbis found a way to abolish polygamy but left intact the requirement that women, to re-marry, needed a 'get'."
"Today, men often refuse to give their ex-wives a 'get' out of 'malice', or hold it 'hostage' to a favorable settlement on children or money. Israel compounds the problem by granting to the Ultra-Orthodox a monopoly over the law governing marriage and divorce, which bars any recourse to civil authority."
Over the centuries , Orthodox rabbis have acknowledged the 'pain' the rule inflicts on women, and even the 'logic' of reform. But they maintain that they are 'powerless' to legislate any change in the process."
[hmm... they seem to be rather 'sadistic' methinks? Some people do enjoy 'inflicting pain' on others, as it makes them feel so 'powerful', due to insecurity, perhaps?]
"... Rabbinic courts routinely accept denials of a 'get', even if made to evade alimony or child support. Refusal of a 'get' has made many children legally illegitimate, and though the chief rabbi has recommended that religious courts name lawyers to represent children's interests, rabbinic judges generally ignore the recommendation.
Growing numbers of Orthodox women regard the rabbis' claim of powerlessness to change the rules as no more than a means to preserve male dominance."
[agree!]
"Alice Shalvi, a respected Orthodox woman, has led the fight in behalf of agunot, [good for her] calling for women's rights within a Halachic context. A founder of the Israel Women's Network, she says proposals for resolving the agunot issue have been on the rabbinic agenda for centuries..."
" 'The Torah bids us to do justice,' Shalvi said in an interview with me. 'The rabbis' role is to come up with solutions to present-day problems, not to 'erect' obstacles. Jewish law has always moved forward. Judaism has always practiced halachic renewal in 'light' of changes in social norms. '
Shortly after her rebuff, Shalvi abandoned Orthodoxy to join a Conservative synagogue.... 'When my 'conversion' to Conservative Judaism was reported,' she said, 'I received pained responses from Orthodox women."
[but then, these are women who are male supremacists, after all, so what more would you expect? These women are brainwashed to 'accept' being 'secondary', being 'less' than men, so they wallow around in their oppression, and thus despise, and are envious, of those women who dare to 'break free' of the chains that keep them in bondage.]
" 'I told them I had reached the conclusion Orthodoxy and feminist goals are irreconcilable. I made the break because I felt personally marginalized and disregarded in Orthodox ritual. But more than that, I could no longer bear the refusal of the rabbinic establishment to come to grips with the women's issues.'
'I suppose I should not be surprised. You raise young men in a yeshiva environment, where women have no entry. They are taught that women can't cope, that they are impure, that the sight of their hair is 'lewd.' It's horrible. Recently there was a call by some Ultra-Orthodox men for separate buses, and I thought 'these men must feel so afraid of sexual attraction that they need to suppress everything.' Ultra-Orthodox misogyny is so 'deep-seated.'
'The tragedy of the agunot meets only with lip-service. The rabbis are simply 'unaware' that a major 'revolution' in our time is the emancipation of women and their attainment of access to education, income-earning, social and professional status and political power. Frustration led me to a more 'humane' religious movement, where rabbis have preseved the age-old tradition of reinterpreting Halacha in the 'light' of changing social norms.'
Shalvi said she now applauds the Jewish principle, presented in the Talmud, of 'aseh lecha rav, 'choose a rabbi for yourself.' The principle, she said, encourages a pluralism of religious beliefs and legitimizes a range of Halachic attitudes and judgments."
"...Together the Mishna and the Gemara are commonly known as the Talmud, which means 'teaching.' But Jews distinguish between the Babylonian Talmud and the Jerusalem Talmud, though the latter was not written in Jerusalem at all, where Rome still ruled.
The era that produced the two Talmuds is often cited as the most creative in all of Jewish history. Of the two, the Babylonian Talmud is generally judged grander and more authoritative than its Jerusalem counterpart. But both were pure Diaspora documents, produced under Gentile rule. Under these circumstances, it is hard even to understand, much less to grant, Orthodoxy's claim that the Talmud has fixed Jewish
law for all time. Neither book was directed at Jews living in their own state, since nowhere had the Jews a state of their own. The Jewish society they addressed was gathered exclusively in exile. The problems the two books treated were exile problems."
"... Though the Talmud was unchallenged for centuries as the basis of Halacha, law students in our own day would not easily recognize it as a 'legal' manual. The format ... would strike law students today as undisciplined, even formless. The Talmud is not so much a book of codes as of sources, containing raw material for making law out of
conditions of daily life... The Talmud... contains blblical commentary, popular proverbs and 'fables', accounts of traditions and manners, narratives of folklore and moral maxims."
"...The Talmud, in instructing Jews how to live on earth, is not a metaphysical work. It is all but silent on such soaring questions as man's relationship to God, the nature of the soul, the final judgment and the afterlife... The requirement that it be studied made Jews - at least Jewish 'men' - literate on a scale unique in its time..."
"The sages were not casual about rewriting the Torah. But like jurists throughout history, they shaped their reasoning to accomodate the desired outcome. Depending on one's viewpoint, the outcome may be applauded or deplored, but there is no doubting the willingness of the Talmudic scholars to override the Torah itself to accomodate changes in the conditions or values of the society."
"According to Steinsaltz, the kashrut, Jewish dietary bans, are derived solely from the sages' 'personal' preferences. 'They have no 'rational' explanation', he writes, 'nor did the sages try to supply one.' Of the laws of purity, such as the 'duty' of women to immerse themselves in a mikva after menstruation, he says, 'this legislation... contains a plethora of detail that seems to have been determined at random with no clear rationale.'
"Steinsaltz goes further to say that the exclusion of women from important spheres of Jewish life has no Torah endorsement at all. Over the centuries, rabbis have argued that Halacha, respectful of women's burdens in keeping a home and raising children, serves to relieve them of onerous religious duties. This argument seems strained, Steinsaltz suggests, if not hypocritical. The result, deliberate or not, is 'inevitably [to]
preclude them from playing a part in Jewish cultural and religious life,' assuring the preservation of male religious dominance.
Among the most famous Halachic rulings was the ban on polygamy imposed by Rabbi Gershom of Mainz, a medieval Ashkenazi sage. Polygamy, though sanctioned by the Torah, was, by the Middle Ages, practiced only by Jews living in Arab lands, and Rabbi Gershom decided to cleanse Judaism of it once and for all. It was not the first or last
Halachic ruling made in emulation of 'Christian' practices. In the same era, other Ashkenzai sages adopted the 'Christian' custom of the lighting of a yahrzeit candle on the anniversary of a family member's death. Both monogamy and the lighting of candles now hold a place of honor among the practices of the Jews.
Ironically, some important Halachic decisions seem to be without explanation at all. One of them - the ruling on matrilineal descent - goes to the very 'heart' of Jewish identity. Though rabbis acknowledge that it has no Torah endorsement, the Talmud says, 'Thy son by an Israelite woman is called thy son, but thy son by a heathen woman is not called thy son.' It means that Judaism recognizes 'only' the child of a Jewish
mother as a natural-born Jew."
"The rule provoked a controversy after World War II, when Orthodox rabbis decided that thousands of Jews whom the Germans murdered for their Jewishness were in reality Gentiles. Orthodoxy, citing matrilineality, still denies the Jewishness of many Holocaust survivors and descendants of Holocaust victims. Using powers given them by the state, it even refuses burial in Jewish cemeteries to soldiers killed fighting for Israel if they are not matrilineal Jews." :0 [that isn't right!]
"In our own time, when intermarriage is widespread, the rule has profound implications for the future of Judaism. American Reform Jews, committed to preserving the Jewish community, have reopened the question and, drawing authority from the Torah and Talmud, have ruled that a child of either a Jewish mother or a Jewish father, raised as a Jew, is legitimately Jewish." [agreed]
"In today's battle, Orthodoxy contends that Halacha empowers its rabbis alone to conduct conversions. Moreover, it insists it has no power to liberalize the process. Halacha imparts to rabbis a wide latitude to reinterpret the law. An entry in the Talmud says, 'The statements of later scholars carry primary authority because they knew the reasoning of earlier scholars as well as their own, and took it into account.' These
words are an invitation to amend the law, whether the objective is to provide justice to agunot or to make non-Jewish spouses welcome into the community of Jews.
There is no denying that, over the centuries of exile, rabbinic Judaism's laws rendered great service to the Jews. In adapting law to the conditions of Jewish life, the rabbis were the linchpin of Jewish survival. In our own day, they hold the same powers as their predecessors, and if they 'choose' to use them 'only' to preserve the status quo, the responsibility lies not with God or the Torah, much less with the Talmud or Halachic codes. The responsibility lies with them."
___
From the inside cover of this book:
"Framed by the murder of Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin by an Orthodox extremist - an unprecedented outburst of violence among Jews - the book examines how religious leaders through the centuries have shaped Judaism to serve their own political ends, often with disastrous consequences. Viorst vigorously critiques Orthodox Judaism's doctrines concerning territory in the Holy Land as well as on
marriage, divorce, conversion, and women's rights, contending that religious law often departs from the teachings of the Torah and has, in fact, changed over time to perpetuate rabbinic power. In recent decades, he believes, the Orthodox rabbinate has grown so intransigently political that its ideas have sundered the Jewish people, challenging their identity and, perhaps, threatening their very existence.... Disturbed by the impact of intolerance on Jewish politics and society, Milton Viorst calls for an end to violence in the name of Judaism and offers a stirring plea for mutual understanding among what the Old Testament God called 'a stiff-necked people.' Amid the heat and noise of the Middle East conflict, his is a lucid, compelling, and necessary voice."
"Moses cried out to the Lord saying, What shall I do with this people? Before long they will stone me."
Exodus 17:4
Peace,
JMD
Name:JMD •
Date: 06/26/07 14:34
A: "Women are constantly being given double messages: society preaches purity and the media portrays women as nothing but sex objects."
-Ellen Frankfort
"If one is not permitted to express anger or even to recognize it within oneself, one is, by simple extension, refused both power and control."
-Carolyn Heilburn
"The less a woman has in her head the better she is for climbing."
-Olive Schreiner
"The strongest is the lonliest and the lonliest is the strongest."
-Eleanora Duse
"Isolation has led me to reflection, reflection to doubt, doubt to a more sincere and intelligent love of God."
-Marie Leneru
"You take people as far as they will go, not as far as you would like them to go."
-Jeannette Rankin
"As the most ignorant minds cling with the greatest tenacity to the dogmas and traditions of their faith, a reform that involves an attack on that stronghold can only be carried out by the education of another generation. Hence the self-assertion, the antagonism, the rebellion of women, so much deplored... is the hope of our 'higher' [i.e., more 'enlightened'] civilization."
-E.Cady Stanton
"I recognize no rights but human rights - I know nothing of men's rights and women's rights; for in Christ Jesus there is neither male nor female. It is my solemn conviction that until this principal of equality is recognized and embodied in practice, the church can do nothing effectual for the permanent reformation of the world."
-Angelina Grimke
"The widening of woman's sphere is to improve her lot. Let us do it, and if the world scoff, let it scoff - if it sneer, let it sneer...
-Lucy Stone
"You are master here, but not of me, or my actions, and you have no right to expect obedience or respect, for you inspire neither."
--Louisa May Alcott
"I am a woman meant for a man, but I never found a man who could compete."
-Bette Davis
"A priest can achieve great victories with an army of women at his command. How are our churches beautified, our sick tended, our poor fed, our children taught and cared for and civilised? Do you think the masculine element goes for much in these things? No; women are the church's strong rock. As they were the last at the foot of the cross, so they have become the first at the altar."
-Mary Elizabeth Braddon
"Too often the great decisions are originated and given form in bodies made up wholly of men, or so completely dominated by them, that whatever of special value women have to offer is shunted aside without expression."
-Eleanor Roosevelt, [Speech United Nations, 1952]
"I have spent many years of my life in opposition and I rather like the role."
-Eleanor Roosevelt
"The individual woman is required... a thousand times a day to choose either to accept her appointed role and thereby rescue her good disposition out of the wreckage of her self-respect, or else follow an independent line of behavior and rescue her self-respect out of the wreckage of her good disposition."
-Jeanette Rankin
"Some minds remain open long enough for the truth not only to enter but to pass on through by way of a ready exit without pausing anywhere along the route."
-Elizabeth Kenny
"The art of being a woman can never consist of being a bad imitation of a man... The outer limitations to woman's progress are caused by the fact we are living in a man's culture."
-Olga Knopf
"A woman that's too soft and sweet is like tapioca pudding - fine for them as likes it."
-Osa Johnson
"The freer that women become, the freer will men be. Because when you enslave someone - you are enslaved."
-Louise Nevelson
"As long as you keep a person down, some part of you has to be down there to hold him down, so it means you cannot soar as you otherwise might."
-Marian Anderson
"When we think of cruelty, we must try to remember the stupidity, the envy, the frustration from which it has arisen."
-Edith Sitwell
"A lady asked me why, on most occasions, I wore black. 'Are you in mourning?' "
"Yes."
"For whom are you in mourning?"
"For the world."
-Edith Sitwell
"A river seems a magic thing. A magic, moving, living part of the very earth itself - for it is from the soil, both from its depth and from its surface, that a river has its beginning."
-Laura Gilpin
"Most people, no doubt, when they espouse human rights, make their own mental reservations about the proper application of the word 'human.'
-Margery Eldredge Howell
"It is probably true to say that the largest scope for change still lies in men's attitude to women, and in women's attitude to themselves."
-Vera Brittain, 'Lady into Woman', 1953
"I heard someone say, and so I said it too, that ridicule is the most effective weapon. Well, now I know. I know that there are things that never have been funny, and never will be. And I know that ridicule may be a shield, but it is not a weapon."
-Dorothy Parker
"Yes, I want to be an outcast in order to realize fully what human beings are capable of. Now I know that fear and cruelty underlie all of society's protestations in favor of honesty and moral worth."
-Evelyn Scott
"But total freedom is never what one imagines and, in fact, hardly exists. It comes as a shock in life to learn that we usually only exchange one set of restrictions for another. The second set, however, is self-chosen, and therefore easier to accept."
-Anne Morrow Lindbergh, 1973
"The women who take husbands not out of love but out of greed, to get their bills paid, to get a fine house and clothes and jewels; the women who marry to get out of a tiresome job, or to get away from disagreeable relatives, or to avoid being called 'old maid' - these are whores in everything but name."
-Polly Adler
"To be a liberated woman is to renounce the desire of being a sex object or a baby girl. It is to acknowledge that the Cinderella-Prince Charming story is a child's fairy tale."
-C.Boothe Luce
"Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily, this is not difficult."
-Charlotte Whitton
"... no one is more arrogant toward women, more aggressive or scornful, than the man who is anxious about his virility."
-Simone de Beauvoir
"I have a case of the most exquisite paranoia. It's a wonderful feeling. For a female lesbian-bastard-writer-mental-case I'm doing awfully well."
-Jill Johnson
"I became a feminist as an alternative to becoming a masochist."
-Sally Kempton
"Mythologically speaking, the ancients scooped our modern-day biologists by unknown thousands of years in their recognition of the female principle as the primal creative force. And they too buried the truth, restructuring the myths to accomodate male ideology."
-D.Justin
"... the present evolution of women ... is to my mind the most profound revolution that highly developed societies will have to contend with.."
-Francoise Giroud
"According to civil law, women are equal to men. But I have to go to a religious court as far as personal affairs are concerned. Only men are allowed to be judges there - men who pray every morning to thank God He did not make them women. You meet prejudice before you open your mouth. And because they believe women belong in the home, you are doubly discriminated against if you work."
-Shulamit Aloni, 'Women In Israel', 1973
"I'm a woman. I'm a black woman. I'm a poor woman. I'm a fat woman. I'm a middle-aged woman. And, I'm on welfare. In this country, if you're any one of those things, you count less as a person. If you're all those things, you just don't count, except as a statistic. I am a statistic."
-Johnnie Tillmon
"In man the shedding of blood is always associated with injury, disease, or death. Only the female half of humanity was seen to have the magical ability to bleed profusely and still rise phoenix-like each month from the gore."
-Estelle R. Ramey
"Perhaps middle-age is, or should be, a period of shedding shells; the shell of ambition, the shell of material accumulations and possessions, the shell of the ego."
-Hannah Arendt
"It is men, not women, who have promoted the cult of brutal masculinity; and because men admire muscle and physical force, they assume that women do, too."
-Elizabeth Gould Davies
"I submit that women's history has been hushed up for the same reason that black history has been hushed up... and that is that a feminist movement poses a direct threat to the establishment. From the beginning it exposed the hypocrisy of the male power structure."
-Shulamith Firestone
"In the Judeo-Christian creed the male body is the temple of God, while the female body is an object made for man's exploitation."
-Elizabeth Gould Davies
"When you are carrying on a struggle, you have to accept the notion that you will have enemies."
-Margaret Walker
"One of the things Jesus did was to step aside from the organized religion of his time because it had become corrupt [as it still is today] and bogged down with rules. Rules became more important than feeding the hungry."
[more important than love.]
-Corita Kent
"Nature gave me the form of a woman; my actions have raised me to the level of the most valiant of men."
-Semiramis (8th century B.C.)
"I am pursued like a wolf out of the sheep fold; I am no wolf; I am word and spirit and power."
-Maximilla
"I do not ask for any crown
But that which all may win;
Nor try to conquer any world
Except the one 'within'. "
-Louisa May Alcott
"There in repressed defiance, lies the natural instinct to tell the world where to get off: an instinct, alas, that too often takes itself out in the tardy retort framed sotto voice, or the year in, year-out threat mumbled to oneself, 'Just wait till I write that book!' " :b
-Grace Moore
Max: "Say, is it too early for a drink?"
Polly: "What's early about it? It's tomorrow in Europe and yesterday in China."
-Ruth Gordon
"To be wildly enthusiastic, or deadly serious - both are wrong. Both pass. One must keep ever present a sense of humor."
-K. Mansfield
"Ah well, perhaps one has to be very old before one learns how to be amused rather than shocked."
-Pearl S. Buck
"Those who do not know how to weep with their whole heart don't know how to laugh either."
-Golda Meir
"How fortunate are those who are crying; they will laugh."
-Jesus, Q-Source
JM:D
Name:JMD •
Date: 06/27/07 8:26
A: Regarding: "betrayal," "self-hate", the "beloved disciple," "Lazarus", "Rise up", and "Hidden Heavens of Hearts",
from the book:
"Drawn into the Mystery of Jesus through the Gospel of John", by Jean Vanier, [2004]
"Betrayal is more than separation or rejection. To betray is to use the secrets of a person's personal life, thoughts confided to a 'friend,' and to turn against that person, to use their confided thoughts or words in order to hurt and defile them, to destroy a reputation." [and Jesus wants to be your 'friend'.]
"...'Having said these things, Jesus, in anguish [or troubled in his spirit] testified: 'Truly, truly, I tell you, one of you is going to betray me.' "
"The disciples are shattered by this statement but probably even more so by the emotion revealed in Jesus: his face, his eyes, his body. His hands must have quivered, his voice faltering and tear-filled..."
"The beloved disciple is reclining on the heart of Jesus. The Greek word 'kolpos,' which is translated as 'heart,' really signifies the 'womb,' the inner part of our being..."
"By saying that the beloved disciple is reclining 'in the womb' of Jesus, the author of this gospel is signifying that the beloved is 'dwelling' in Jesus; .. is an intimate friend of Jesus.."
"With his/her head resting on the heart of Jesus, the beloved disciple must have sensed the wounded, anguished heartbeat of Jesus, his vulnerability,... his pain in the face of Judas' betrayal. Jesus is terribly hurt, wounded by the rejection of his love. The closedness and hardness of Judas, the hate emanating from him, must have awoken deep anguish within Jesus."
"The beloved disciple must have wanted to comfort and console the wounded heart of Jesus by showing him his/her love and trust."
"Like Judas, at times we can be in revolt towards Jesus, and want to be left alone, autonomous, not dependent on love. Like the beloved disciple, we may have moments of intimacy with Jesus... 'resting on his heart.' Like Peter, we can have moments where we are confused by Jesus and by the way he lives and loves. We may want to do things that are acceptable on the social or political level, or change things in an urgent and highly visible way. In pursuing tangible, visible, instant results we may turn away from a communion of love with Jesus."
"Can we, too, sense the pain in the heart of God - the pain caused by all the hatred that exists in our world, by people who do not want to receive God's healing love?"
"The beloved disciple reveals to us that we are called to be in communion with Jesus, to be still, to be present, and to receive in our hearts all that is in his heart, the love and the pain: to remain in him and he in us, one in love."
"Judas, imprisoned in darkness, filled with an anguish of self-hate, cannot remain still. He is unable to open up to Jesus; he has to leave. It is a night of 'inner' darkness and hatred."
"..Some people hate love or are angry with love. They want power, efficiency and affirmation of their personal power, capacities, authority and identity. Love appears to them as weakness, a horrible emptiness. In love we submit to the one we love. We even share our weakness with the friend..."
"...Each person freely gives himself or herself and receives the other not out of fear or from a place of emptiness, but out of love. True love is a communion of hearts joined together in a fullness of joy. It is the completeness of our humanity, the fullness of a person. Far from suppressing freedom and creativity, it enhances them. We accomplish activities not from a place of fear or the need to prove, but out of love..."
"...Jesus wants to liberate Judas, and each one of us, from fear. Judas wants to be part of Jesus' group of chosen disciples and enjoy power, but he cannot accept to humbly open himself to Jesus in a communion of hearts. He wants spiritual power but not love.."
Jesus calls on us to 'rise up':
"There are different 'levels' of understanding in the Gospel of John. There is the 'historical' level...
There is also a 'symbolic' level. Aren't we all Lazarus? Are there not parts in each one of us that are dead, caught up in a culture of death? All that is 'dead' in us, more or less hidden in our unconscious self, in the shadow area or the 'tomb' of our being, provokes a kind of death around us. We judge and condemn and push people down, wanting to show that we are better than they. We refuse to listen to those who are 'different' and so we hurt them. All these destructive acts have their origin in the hidden parts of our being, which we do not want to look at or admit."
"Jesus wants us to 'rise up' and to become 'fully alive.' He calls us out of the 'tomb' we carry 'within' us, just as God called Ezekiel to 'raise up' from the dead all those people of Israel who were lying in the 'tomb of despair':
"Thus says the Lord God, 'I am going to open your tombs and raise you up from your tombs, O my people... I will put my spirit in you and you shall live."
"This is what Jesus wants for each one of us today. To each of us he says:
"Take away the stone!"
"At his command maybe the stone is removed and Jesus can call us by name and cry out:
"Come out!"
"We can then 'rise up,' a bit more 'whole' and 'holy,' with the 'Spirit' of Jesus 'in' us. We are being put together again. We can let the light of Jesus penetrate all the darkness 'within' us. As we find greater unity inside us, we bring greater unity around us. The story of Lazarus is the story of each one of us. It is the revelation that Jesus came to call us to 'rise up' and to become fully 'alive' in order to 'give life.'
"..Jesus did not come to bring freedom and dignity only to the Jewish people but to each person, whatever his or her culture, origins or religious traditions.."
"Jesus, revealing himself as the least one in society, the one who does the dirty jobs, the one who is in the last place, calls his followers to be attentive to the least in society. God is not 'out of reach' in the 'skies.'
God is 'hidden' in the 'heavens' of the 'hearts' of all those who are in the last place. The gospel message is the world upside down."
JM:D
"...But in spite of what they say, Wisdom's children show that She [Sophia] is right."
Q-source
Name:JMD •
Date: 07/02/07 21:28
A: song lyrics from the album
"Dog and Butterfly" by the band 'Heart'
"Cook With Fire"
This hot night wind is mine I know
This gust of love ain't no liar
Steamed up
Blown out
Stoked from below
I'm ready to cook with fire
with fire...
oooo I want to cook it with fire...
She catting around to catch you man
And butters you up to buy her
Darlin' she's just a flash in the pan
And don't you want to cook it with fire
Come on,
Talkin' about kickin' the role thing
Uh-huh, now, I want to give you
the whole thing... yeah
She gonna burn ya,
haha! I tell ya, she gonna make you a fool
But it'll learn ya, learn ya,
Way, way better than school.
I got a soul that's got a 'spark' boy,
I got a real hot wire
You got a hungry flame in the dark
And Lord, we gonna cook it with fire.
I got a soul that's got a 'spark' boy,
I got a real hot wire
You got a hungry flame in the dark
And Lord, we gonna cook it with fire.
"When you start a fire, you like it to burn"
next 'Heart' song lyrics dedicated to my 'secret friend' :b
Inside out again
I had to spread it a little thin
I work and work and try and try and try
to shine
that's fine
but it's high time!
break and take the freedom
my time
to live like I feel
to let down and let myself be
it's a high time for me,
it's high time for me
it's high time for me!
Darlin' look at you
I can see what you've been through
you've been bought and sold
and pushed and rolled and rolled and rolled
and it gets old
but it's high time!
break and take the freedom
your time
to live like you feel
so come on you know what to do
it's a high time for you,
high time for you
it's high time for you, too.
I 'know' you 'know'
all about a 'fool'
and who is where
where is what is
cool to you
I'll go underground
with the ones I found
put your ear down
you can feel it shake
way down, way down,
now, we're makin' a break
we're makin' a break
our ship is in
you know it is!
It is high time!
it's high time!
don't we feel fine tonight
we've got the fire hot all right
now the fear is clear
you better be aware
now it's here
it's all here!
and it's our time
break and take the freedom
it's our time to live like we feel
so get on, get on the bus
it's a high time, it's high time for us
and it's your time
break and take the freedom
your time to live like you feel
so come on
you know what to do
it's high time for you
it's high time for you
it's high time for you
yeah.....you!
___
Quite some time
I been sittin' it out
didn't take no chances
I was a prisoner of doubt
I knocked down the wailin' wall
ain't no sin
got the feel of fortune
deal me in
comin' straight on for you
you made my mind
and now I'm strong
now I'm comin' through
straight on
straight on for you
straight on for you
straight on for you
now I know
I gotta play my hand
what a winner don't 'know'
a gambler understands
my heart keeps a playin it through
with you my friend
I'll take my chances on you
again and again, again!
"She's one of them Gnostic Rangers, dangerous folk they are. Wandering the wilds and the paths of the dead. What her right name is I've never heard; but she's known around here as JMD."
Name:JMD •
Date: 07/03/07 3:34
A: by the way, I Iive in Toronto, My name is Jennifer, and I'm a worn out caregiver, who has this week off, fortunately, and I work for Genevieve Kierans. Her husband, Ron Pappin was a researcher for the Jesus Family Tomb, and I don't like him much any more; he's a bit of a 'nut' and has said/done some 'weird' things to me - I call him Judas. I must find another job, as I just can't work around him - he creeps me out; And, so is Simcha - he is also 'Judas' - to Dr. James Tabor.
Dr. Tabor is the hero in this whole sorry mess, and I'm the heroine; we are not crazy either. I told my ex husband, who works as a caregiver as well, that if they want to cart me off to the 'nutty' hospital, as he said to me tonight -said he'd call my family tomorrow - I laughed at him- that I wouldn't go, not unless I can first speak to Dr. Tabor; we may as well be 'put away together'. Though I'd like to see them try! I have nothing to hide, -come and look at my pc files at home, if you want to! but I bet they do! Investigate them! These two fools Ron and Simcha are certainly envious of Tabor, and me, and all of our 'knowledge.' Though Tabor is Mr. Historian, and I'm Ms. Mysical Gnostic. What can you do? When you're good, well you will have enemies and people envious of you in high places. I wonder if they'd even go so far as to 'harm' either of us in any way?
Tweedle-dee and tweedle dum = Ron and Simcha, who I guess are having fun?
JM:Disciple of Jesus Christ - thanks Jesus; I'm glad you know the 'truth' and let me 'know' that Dr. Tabor and myself are actually 2 of the sanest people in this whole sorry nightmare.
Night, all.
Name:JMD •
Date: 07/03/07 22:53
A: I'm leaving the board. I will find somewhere else to post - though I am going to take many of my postings with me, wherever I go.
This board is not worthy of me.
Name:Anchorite •
Date: 07/08/07 19:05
A: Dear JMD,
I hope you come back for a peak here. I am so glad you accepted my apology.
Caregiver work is not easy. I consider it sacred labour. If your associates have not treated you well in return this is a scandal.
Please take care, and thank you guys, for all the verse!
JMD, your posts have a huge scope and I am sure they have had much good influence.
Anchorite
Name:sam •
Date: 07/09/07 22:32
A: Dear JMD,
by the way, I Iive in MISSISSAUGA (near Square One), and I can say that I am your neighbout, and I'm a worn out man after several year of abuse from the few bad people who managed the company in its last years. They knew that the company is going into bunkrupcy and they try to ged rid of me and Marina (Chinese) and an elderly Idian lady. Thanks God that I am still alive,and I try to enjoy the few days/years that left for me.
In the 60th, I worked for a Hungarian/Lebanese company as a manger, and worked with the Hungarian president to create the cheese factory from ZERO, and I did design some of the labels and the pakaging for the new products (one been taken by the MEA airlines). and when machines needs part (special springs) from Swizerland, and take weeks of stopping production, I got an idea to make pieces from the father clock springs and made it in the workshop, and it never brakes.
In the 70th, I worked for EMI/TOSHIBA Australia (6000 workers- products are TVs, cassetes & cartridges recorder, musical instruments, instrument for aviation and radars for the F-4 & other planes, medical instrument plus the famous recorded disks and tapes, I worked as a production planner.
In Australia I won an aword for complete design of board game, even the drawing on the box as the best presentation work and it was my drawings.
In the 80th, I came to Canada, first I could not find a work for 8 months, I am over qualified, or my degree not accepted, while it was accepted in England and Australia!!!!!!!.
The only thing left for me is to get any job, and I accepted to work in the shipping dept. for the famous Japanese S--KO (watch). When I left I was force to sign a paper that I will never tell about the company!!! etc.
I did work hard and I did get several pay rise in the first year, but soon the Canadians took over the management, and everything changed, the new president brought new managers!!!, and Graham the truck driver became my manager (a high school graduates and no experience) and it was me who has to teach him. A lot of dirty business going around, a drunken group who meet after work in the pub (OSCAR) North York. And those are the kind of people around me, and I been told by the Japenese when I started work, that I should keep an eye on some of them because they are very lazy, those who became my supervisors and the leading hands, and those who I traned became a supervisors (very alcoholics). and I tried hard to find another place or any other job but with no luck .
Then My son went to MEDICAL SCHOOL, and their hate became unbearable. They try to kick me out knowing that in my age I could not find another work to support my son. And I tried to take the abuse just by thinking about my son future, and my wife who never works because of her health problems, and forget about myself. I kept that as a secret from my son, but my wife seeing me coming home and have no apetite to eat and hardly i can sleap, and the nightmares, one day she could not take it anymore and she tried to end her life and that was in the day of Christman, and she spent a full week in the hospital.
JMD, they spit on my food and drink and they damaged my car many times, And forced my friends to be away from me, endless abuse behind any believe. I thought many time to comit suicide. I use to have my breaks and luch in the car even when it is -25 cold. , and always the tears come by themselves just by thinking in what is happening to me. I sent letters to Japan and the answer was I am paid to work!!!,and I saw a Lawyer, and i went to the government, but they ask for witness, and no one could come because they knew what will happen to them.
When my son graduated as a Doctor, Graham (the devil) refuse to give 4 days as it is my holyday, because we are busy???, four day to attend my son graduation which was in the building of the united nation in NY city. But i did go. and when I came back Graham was away that day and I was told that he is in the court, because his 16 years old son is jailed for spraying and damaging expensive car in Milton his town!!!.
What went on in the last five years at work, It is hard for me even to bring it back to my mind, because the painit is still with me. While I was telling the story to my doctor, he turned his chair to face the wall and wipped his tears.
JMD, When person goes to a hospital then he will notice that he is not the only one sick, and there are million out there suffering from all sorts of pain. but we should be strong and brave and think about the good things that we want to bring to this world. and me whith the others we want you to be with us in this forum, and we will be glad to know about your research. If we do not agree that is not a reason for you to leave your friends
Wish you all the best, and God bless you.
Name:Anchorite •
Date: 07/12/07 0:18
A: Dear Sam,
Thank you for sharing your story. I thought I had suffered! My God, what pain! I think you did the best for JMD possible, ie, show that misery and injustice is way more frequent than people realize.
BTW, I am in Ottawa, not quite your neighbor but, I have some government zaniness under my belt. I am doing OK these days though.
JMD... Sam... an honor to know you. Your stories shall inform me to the end.
Anchorite
Name:Anchorite •
Date: 07/12/07 0:33
A: JMD, I just noticed better,
You were musing about what it feels like to be a tree.
I have a tree poem which I think of as my "Sneaky Jesus-poem" meaning it tries to use tree-related notions to talk about how Jesus attempted to enlist the generations in the service of a higher inspiration.
THE TREE
I lie beneath your green petitions
Await a wanton breeze
I count again your rising wishes
So send to me your garden sighs!
The City Park has set conditions
That tear at limbs and beat at bark
I cringe to notice ever listing
Your sturdy frame and gentle heart
The children come around and scamper
Or yank themselves to gain a view
There was a time they even camped here
And started generations new!
Soon I'll rise onto your garden
My sighs will join your righteous height
We'll mingle proper no departure
And lend a hand to bodies light
~Anchorite
Name:Panluna •
Date: 07/18/07 0:41
A: Hello everyone!
I'm back..Just finished reading the EXPECTED ONE--Jesus wasn't betrayed--he asked Judas to turn him in.Good luck JMD--sorry to read that you left the posts.Caregiver jobs are not easy to do.It requires patiance and insight.hope you find a job that you would like.
Name:sam •
Date: 07/18/07 12:21
A: Hi Panluna,
welcome back, hope you had a good vacation, I am leaving on the 20th to visit my son in MA. and I will be back on the 30th. but I will try to visit the forum if I had a chance, I will be spending a lot of time playing with my grandson.
I hope JMD will come back to share with us her thoughts, God bless her and God bless you too.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 07/18/07 14:18
A: Enjoy your vacation,Sam.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 07/21/07 23:51
A: JMD,
In answer to your question "Was Jesus a gnostic?' after much research and deliberation I have come to the conclusion that he was in touch with his higher spirit-self and connected with the god-light within--probably achieved by chakra meditation.Gnosis or spiritual knowledge goes way back into the B.C.'s and I believe that the shamans of the ancient worlds were the first to achieve gnosis or a connection with the divine spark of the higher spirit-self.Over the centuries people tried to explain trances,voices and strong spiritual vibrations so that they could understand and relate to a higher power---visible or invisible and accept guidance as Faith.
Jesus was an Essene Hebrew who lived guided by the llight within and achieved gnosis then shared his wisdom with his followers.Knowledge of God can be achieved by anyone seeking the kingdom of peace within,no matter what their belief system is.In this epiphany Jesus was a Gnostic.
Well, I'm still trying to figure out what could have happened to the Book Of Love Jesus wrote and was one of the treasures of the Cathars along with the wisdom of the Blue apples.I hope it wasn't destroyed when the Cathars were systamaticly exterminated.
Thanks for recommending THE EXPECTED ONE by Kathleen McGowan--it got me started on a new tangent.Could Mary Magdalene be disguised as John to make her an equal to the male apostles?And did Jesus really live 11 years after the crucifiction?there is something on this website that refers to the related books--especially the one found by a friar in the Vatican vaults.Maybe they will find The Book Of Love there,too.
Name:betty47 •
Date: 07/22/07 23:12
A: JMD - Sorry to see you leave the board. How did Simcha betray Dr. Tabor? I do believe Dr. Tablor is right on the money with his information and blogs. I love reading his blog.
