Name:ollypop •
Title: We call it Faith! •
Date posted: 02/28/07 1:05
Q: I believe that Faith is what you hold closest to your heart. It's what sustains you day to day. I have read that I need to repent, that my beliefs are misguided. I choose to explore NEW discoveries whether believed or not, and am told that I am a sinner.
But like so many before and like the men and women who have made this site I believe I'd like to know more.
I'd like to know.....
My faith is unfaltered.
Name:DSand •
Date: 03/01/07 4:13
A: Hey, I don't think you are a sinner or in need of repentence for seeking out truth. The Bible encourages us to seek truth and not believe things we are told on face value. Remember, Paul spoke highly of the Bereans because they did not trust his words alone - they tested things against the scriptures. That would be my encouragement to you - explore these type things, but always remember to test them against the truth of the scriptures. And, if you are a beliver, then pray and allow the Holy Spirit to guide you.
God appreicates honesty - He knows what's on our hearts and minds anyway, right? Just make sure you are seeking Him and He promises you will find Him.
Name:thelord3003 •
Date: 03/01/07 4:16
A: Amen!
Name:malthos •
Date: 03/01/07 9:02
A: im sorry but i will have to disagree with that i dont believe in "faith" i think of it as a tool used to answer allot of questions that cant be answered or shouldnt be answered because the catholic church might not like the true answer
and it also gives the religion a mystic flavor to it all questions will be answered if you have faith all your troubles will go away if you have faith if your having problems maybe its cause you dont have enough faith and if you dont have enough faith maybe its cause you are not as good as you should be
im sorry but i dont like to be manipulated in this fashion if they have answers then they should say them if they dont then they should have a better reason then its a question of faith why not say scholars have been working on this issue for ... years and this is what we have found so far that is so much better then trust in your faith and the answers will be found
Name:Chris •
Date: 03/02/07 13:19
A: In all honesty, malthos, your faith need not be blind. I went years figuring faith had to be blind but soon enough, through the Bible, I had to submit that it's design couldn't have been done by man. It is so detailed, so precise, so specific and does not contradict that eventually you have to concede.
People look for proof all their lives and in this day and age, it's easier to get a hold of than ever before.
Name:Mark-Tao •
Date: 03/02/07 16:44
A: If you removed all your reasons for believing in anything, and if kindness and humility still look like good ideas to you, then you have all the faith you will ever require.
Name:roy •
Date: 03/04/07 17:25
A: Referring your topic related to James Cameron’s new documentary about Jesus Christ. I describe my ideas as the following;
Jesus was a human being who was created resembling creation as Adam, made as God‘s speacial envoy and word. He was subject to death and resurrection as all other humans at the dooms day.[3:59]
He was not killed or crucified but the scenery was recepted as if he was crucified. In reality, he was never hanged, the person who hanged was resembled to him in the views of the enemy Israelites.[4:157,158]
He was not killed by enemies but survived till the natural death. [19:33]God has taken his life. They were not defeated by the enemies but on the contrary him and his supporter disciples and israelites defeated the enemies.[61:14]
These are the statements written 1430 years ago by Quran. It is believed by heart by billions of muslims, as a prerequisite to be accepted into Islam. Maybe out of bias, or fear of sameness they prefer to ignore what is claimed. It is surprising that modern world is barely aware of this fact or they blind their eyes with superstition. Christ, he disciples and his followers were also muslims who were ordered with salat (prayer) and zekat ( voluntary wealth distribution).
The views above is supported with the related verses of Quran as below. Some of the ideas has been tought by various western writers,which are noted as well.
You may further make your research in english Quran at the link below.
For example ; word of “Christ” I found this link: http://www.kuranmeali.com/arama.asp?kelim-e=Christ&meal=yusufali&sure=hepsi
word- of “Jesus” I found this link:
http://www.kuranmeali.com/arama.asp?ke-lime=jesus&meal=yusufali&sure=hepsi
Sura- - 4 Women (Al-Nesaa')
[4:157] And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - They slew him not nor crucified, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain,
[4:158] Instead, GOD raised him to Him; GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.
[4:159] Everyone among the people of the scripture was required to believe in him before his death. On the Day of Resurrection, he will be a witness against them.
[4:171] O people of the scripture, do not transgress the limits of your religion, and do not say about GOD except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was a messenger of GOD, and His word that He had sent to Mary, and a revelation from Him. Therefore, you shall believe in GOD and His messengers. You shall not say, "Trinity." You shall refrain from this for your own good. GOD is only one god. Be He glorified; He is much too glorious to have a son. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. GOD suffices as Lord and Master.
Sura - 19 Mary (Maryam)
[19:33] And peace be upon me the day I was born, the day I die, and the day I get resurrected."
[19:34] That was Jesus, the son of Mary, and this is the truth of this matter, about which they continue to doubt.
[19:35] It does not befit GOD that He begets a son, be He glorified. To have anything done, He simply says to it, "Be," and it is.
[19:36] He also proclaimed, "GOD is my Lord and your Lord; you shall worship Him alone. This is the right path."
*19:36 This is similar to the statement attributed to Jesus in the Gospel of John 20:17.
Sura - 5 The Feast (Al-Ma'edah)
[5:72] Pagans indeed are those who say that GOD is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah himself said, "O Children of Israel, you shall worship GOD; my Lord and your Lord." Anyone who sets up any idol beside GOD, GOD has forbidden Paradise for him, and his destiny is Hell. The wicked have no helpers.
*Look at the sameness of Kuran: Sura - 5 ( The Feast ) Al-Ma'edah and Bible Matta 7:21-23
*5:72-76 In John 20:17, we see that Jesus taught that he was neither God, nor the son of God. Many theologians have concluded, after careful research, that today's Christianity is not the same Christianity taught by Jesus. Two outstanding books on this subject are "The Myth of God Incarnate" (The Westminster Press, Philadelphia, 1977) and The "Mythmaker" (Harper & Row, New York, 1986). On the front jacket of "The Mythmaker" we read the following statement:
" ...Hyam Maccoby presents new arguments to support the view that Paul, not Jesus, was the founder of Christianity....it was Paul alone who created a new religion through his vision of Jesus as a divine Saviour who died to save humanity."
Sura - 3 The Amramites ( Ali-'Imran)
[3:55] Thus, GOD said, "O Jesus, I am terminating your life, raising you to Me, and ridding you of the disbelievers. I will exalt those who follow you above those who disbelieve, till the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is the ultimate destiny of all of you, then I will judge among you regarding your disputes.
[3:59] The example of Jesus, as far as GOD is concerned, is the same as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, "Be," and he was.
[3:60] This is the truth from your Lord; do not harbor any doubts.
Sura - 61 The Column (Al-Suff)
[61:6] Recall that Jesus, son of Mary, said, "O Children of Israel, I am GOD's messenger to you, confirming the Torah and bringing good news of a messenger to come after me whose name will be even more praised (Ahmad)." Then, when he showed them the clear proofs, they said, "This is profound magic."
*Sameness of Sura - 61 The Column (Al-Suff) and Bible İsiah 45:21,22
Psalm 99:9 Timothy 1:17 good news fro sneding another prophet called Ahmad(Hz Mohammad) or Pheraklid (praised)= Ahmad
[61:14] O you who believe, be GOD's supporters, like the disciples of Jesus, son of Mary. When he said to them, "Who are my supporters towards GOD," they said, "We are GOD's supporters." Thus, a group from the Children of Israel believed, and another group disbelieved. We helped those who believed against their enemy, until they won.
Sura - 3 The Amramites ( Ali-'Imran)
[3:51] "GOD is my Lord and your Lord; you shall worship Him alone. This is the right path."
[3:52] When Jesus sensed their disbelief, he said, "Who are my supporters towards GOD?" The disciples said, "We are GOD's supporters; we believe in GOD, and bear witness that we are submitters / muslims."
*3:51 This is precisely what Jesus is quoted to say throughout the New Testament. See for example the Gospel of John 20:17, and the book "Jesus: Myths and Message" by Lisa Spray, Ch. 4 (Universal Unity, Fremont, CA 1992).
Name:LucyFir •
Date: 03/04/07 22:31
A: We call it the God Delusion, read the first chapter here:
http://richarddawkins-.net/godDelusion#firstChapte-r-
Name:bigpundaddy •
Date: 03/05/07 5:25
A: What is it that you refer to as Faith? I know my Faith lies some where else. So if i look at what are saying is your Faith that the bible is right and science is wrong. Or a simple movie has completely spun you because it does CHALLENGE everything about the CHRISTIAN faith? Explain a bit more OLLYPOP.
Name:bigpundaddy •
Date: 03/05/07 5:32
A: Chris, To behonest that is a typical christian thing to do and say that someday you will basically conform to the Bible standards. Honestly what do you know about the bible? Clearly all the details you suggest that are in it are being challenged by fact and not something that has be translated over and over and miscommunicated for centuries. Simply ignorant in your bliss of Bible glory.
Name:truth •
Date: 03/05/07 7:13
A: For years people have replaced G-d with Jesus. I think G-d has had enough. Is your faith so weak that the bones of Jesus will make you abandon G-d? The Creator wants mankind to serve him in spirit and truth. It is said, “The truth will set you free!”
I find it strange that Judaism and Islam don’t view Jesus in the same manner as Christianity.
Is it not strange that Jesus was not thought of as god in flesh until years later? No where in the Jewish writings or Aramaic text does it state Jesus is a god.
Many of you will say it’s because the Jews killed him. You sadly mistaken and mislead. You have been lied to. Hoodwinked! Oppressed Jews didn’t have the authority to order anyone to be killed? The following are a few points to think about:
1)James, the brother of said in a debate over Jesus’ doctrine, that he (Jesus) never said, “He was the son of G-d.”
2)Jesus was Jewish, Jewish men marry and have families. Does not the Bible say, “He (Jesus) would kiss her (Mary) on her mouth often? As a Jew he would follow the law, would he not? Kissing her outside of marriage categorizes of fornication.
3)If the truth came out at this time the Catholic Church would lose billions of dollars and go into ruins. The people would know that they had been lying and leave the church.
4)The Orthodox Jews don’t want you to know the truth because you may try to become Jewish.
I will gather them from the four corners of earth, saith the L-rd our G-d. Some who believe in Jesus will become Muslims and those who don’t, Jews. I will make him (Ishmael) a Great Nation, saith the Lord our G-d.
5)My father would say, “If someone wants to rule over someone else all they have to do is Feed them and give them Money. And if they really want them to do what they say, Take It All Away!
Think about it, need I say more?
6) The Bible say’s, When the Messiah comes he will bring PEACE. We have not reached that state. However, I do see G-d unveiling the hearts of mankind and truth replacing the veil. Love never Fails!
7) READ, READ, READ, in the name of the L-rd. He will reveal the truth! Friday sundown to Sunday is not three days!
Lastly, I leave you the reader with this question. If there was no promise of Heaven or Hell would you continue to serve G-d? You say Yes, but would your heart still love Him the same if there were no streets paved of gold. Could you love Jesus for the doctrine he left Knowing that he is not G-d in flesh? ( G-d is G-d. Alone There is none else.) You would have to learn to TRUST G-d and Him Alone as does the Jew and Muslim.
Name:WhatWouldJudasDo •
Date: 03/05/07 7:20
A: Faith? Ha. Faith in what? A book that tells you about some guy that could heal people. If I lived back then and some guy thought he could bring people back to life and walk on water i'd kill him to. Faith is for people that are insecure. Religion is just a organization that loves power and money. It's a power trip. Yeah they might help the homeless but isnt that a power trip....Hi im BIG religion and heres some stuff and if it wasnt for me you wouldnt have this. Should call it Corporate Religion.
Name:nizack05 •
Date: 03/05/07 7:35
A: reply to:WhatWouldJudasDo
Faith in what? how about faith in God... you obviously put your faith in popular opinion and maybe the media or science? They both are based on faith, you're being fed all your info from these sources as Christians being fed from the word of God.
I would think that you're more insecure than a Christian because you need more evidence and more proof, but when it comes down to it, you weren't there when the earth was created. You have no evidence that everything you are fed from the your sources are 100% true...
BTW, Judas killed himself after all said and done, so maybe you should change your name to WhatWouldJudasDoIfHeCouldDoItOver. Killing one's self does not scream. I was right on about this Jesus fellow.
Name:WhatWouldJudasDo •
Date: 03/05/07 7:54
A: I'm not insecure at all. I was always fed the whole religion thing and I chose not to believe. I have faith in nothing not media, science nothing. Hey we are here and when we go we go. All I believe in is if I wake up I wake up if I dont I dont. You also have no evidence of what really went on and you are just fed some crap also.I actually did not know anything about this show until I was taking my kid to school and heard about it on the radio. I thought I would tune in. How do you know if judas killed himself? cause a book told you so? Do you think that in a 1000 years people will think that Luke Skywalker was a God cause it was a good story? The Bible is just a book. I think it was made up as like a common law. Tho shalt not steal and all. It laid the morals of today. Not a good story though.
Name:nizack05 •
Date: 03/05/07 8:09
A: Word up: I believe that Judas killed him self because I believe in the Word of God. And I believe it because I have faith (belief that is not based on proof).
Although George Lucas is a great writer and growing up in the 80s made me a huge fan of the Wars, I haven't put faith that George Lucas' writings are the inspired words of God.
On a serious note? What about other religions like buddhism, hinduism, scientology, ect. Are they all in the same group?
I can see how religion is hard for people to grasp. Even if you grew up on it, I think it's harder. I can't explain to people how or why I believe in it. I just do, I think that's my faith kicking in. I don't care if you would think I'm an idiot, I'm definitely not making the world a worse place with my beliefs.
Name:WhatWouldJudasDo •
Date: 03/05/07 17:49
A: I never called you an idiot. People can believe in whatever they want. Just this whole Faith thing I don't get. You believe in something that it over 2 thousand years old. and still really isnt a true story. I just dont see it or get it, but for you it works and if faith is what some people need to not shoot up a school and stay sane then hey whatever.
Other religions as you mentioned I dont care about and really dont know much about them. Like I said I dont think there is a God. We are just here. If I die then I die. whatever happens when I'm dead then cool if nothing than I certainly wont know it cause im dead.
Name:kirby1777 •
Date: 03/05/07 18:17
A: I was born and raised christian, however I am also a scientist, I am also an amiture Bible student (Biblical critisism), I enjoyed the movie and have read the book. I am strong enough in my faith that it remaing unchanged by this information. Would it be so bad if Jesus had a family, or would that make him more human, which is what God sent his only son to be? I believe that through the years that all religions have been so changed by man to suit their needs, that there is no way of knowing that any religion is truly the way that God wants it to be. I just pray that what I believe is the true belief.. I hope that this show opens the way for more indepth research, as the filmakers were trying to say in the program following the movie. I was unhappy by Kopels role last night he seemed more upset than the theologians were.
Name:Wes Boll •
Date: 03/05/07 18:19
A: Yes, big, question, will be interesting how somebody covers this question up YES, 1980 UH HUH,WHO BURIED THE BONES AND WHERE ARE THEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WES DNA!!!?????
Name:roy •
Date: 03/07/07 12:30
A: Hi, WhatWouldJudasDo and non-believing comunity
It makes your life pass easy if you believe in some kind of superior creator. Even child brain start asking questions from 2 years old, realising the substance, matters, life, logic may not just “happen” out of nowhere.
After loosing every living around when they die, it is easier to bear reality to accept the rejoining with loved ones as a compensation from God beyond death.
It is more soothing that there is a revenge taker on our behalf if there is something went wrong against us. If you trust to your state systems or uncles or gods inside self for these things; you may understand soon that you were misled terribly.
Hope it gave you some clues.
Greetings kirby1777
The findings of him may or may not be the real tomb of Jesus( personally I think remote possibility~ because if it was; it should have been known and respected by people for two thousand years).
However the importance of the concept is Christ was not any God. God strongly forbids paradise; anyone who claims Christ or any partner share to His Throne. Hundreds of verses written on this topic only because of people have diverted from the true path. Early Christians have changed the Bible according to power hungry Byzantene ruler & bishops wishes at year around 300 AD. The hypothesis and proof of Christ created fatherless but to be a mere human being is very important to us from this point. Quran persistently renounces the notion of “Trias” and defines it as the only unforgivable sin could be made to Him. Overloving Jesus by his followers brought him to the stage sharing power of God. It remains the same mistake and danger for Muslims to their prophets or imams.
Each of the primary religions teach the same general rule, but perhaps uses different words and stories to give examples of how to live those virtues.
Name:Historian •
Date: 03/07/07 14:04
A: If you worship God, the truth should not trouble you. It was what Jesus SAID that mattered, not the circumstances of his life. Jesus would not have denied the truth; you should not either.
Name:roy •
Date: 03/11/07 13:25
A: Why should God be so complex not to be understood by common man? Does He address only to the scholars? If so why He held the common responsible what He says and forbids? Is He so cruel to punish those from which reasons that common people has no clue to understand?
Islam has brought the most clear understanding of God and definition of Christ for whom who wants to find out or whom God wants to reveal and let him be.
Saying God is three in one context but, One made up of three, no one can realise what is going on… How is three agree on ruling on universe that there is no disagreement between them? If God decides to extinct Jesus and Virgin Mary who will stop Him from it? How three in spiritual and matter decided to come together to send somepart of three among those miniscule sized peasants and didnt guess one piece of God will be killed there by torture? Wasnt there any other way to save people from sins rather to sacrifice one piece of God? How was it done before Christ (are they only comunity to be saved as majority of jews also claim as favored nation)? One of gods gave up divine and such sort of things are just fables from the Greek mythology. Is there any thema difference in stories with Zeus who hypothetically lived on Olympos, some other god had stolen fire from him, and such nonsence and complex stories. (Some Greeks gave rebirth a new religion on that belief and ask recognition by parliament in Greece today.)
Please be simple and come to your senses to find real God in your heart with peace. It will calm you down if you found Him. Searching thousands of pages but not spending time on the most referred and read book ~Quran is so big loss for you.
Christian Church claims The gospels, most especially John, indicate that Christ was not taken because the "peasants" (actually the temple guard and probably some Roman soldiers as well) over powered Him, but because He went to his death willingly. “
Guard, soldier ect.. has no difference than peasant comparing with God as former are made up all from human. No matter what is the position of human ~ temple guard or Roman soldiers or even todays atomic powered soldiers may not possibly over power even small evidence of God let alone God himself.
“Going to his death willing” is another made-up story. Too unlogical to be devine. All science, philosophy, antropology, history, logic, nature, biolgy, cosmology, physics, theology (christianity except this incident) strives the essence of existance not extinction, natural selection, wish of living - not dieing.
On the contrary Christ must ask God to live on to save his people by preaching (He lived and won over non believers~Islamic view, otherwise no christians would have been mentioned today~my opinion). Moses, and Abraham has been saved by God with two miracles ( Red sea divide and fire becoming serene.)
If our prophet does something “going to his death willingly” we must wish the same thing as good followers. Why don’t you dare to wish some unlogical thing then?;
We will all go death willingly to save others!!
I only believe the brotherhood to be adhered by man of any race, wealth, religion or sex. Beause they are equal and only be better than other in terms of observing God’s wishes. The religions come from same God although Jewish and Christians refuse to accept it, Islam is saying similar things plus improvement open to scientific evidence and criticism of any sort (except depicting or dishonoring holy figures). Actually encouraging debate.
God does not need peoples recognition of the latest versions of what He says. That’s why He says keep your own faith as Christian or Jew but don’t commit sin of Trinity or false claims against Me or Jesus because I am the only One. He does not accept religions from those who curses Him in that Trias way, and will not forgive those (only sin NOT to be forgiven) .
If the trias is not accepted at Byzantene time Council 300 AD. It would have been less likely to get acceptance by plural gods greek society of that time and would have been difficult to unite them. Imperialism was on the scene that time, not now.
On the other hand if Church didnt defend their position strongly against other religions, there would have been no reason of existence of them and the priests and kings had to give up huge wealth and power over society. The latter religion forbids any devine class, rabbis, or super powered ruler, not to mention some papacy who claim to be the shadow and replica of God on earth! (another form of Imperialism)
I hope it helps the claims of Jesus was a dieable, marryable, child conceive causable and tomb burriable (yet to be proven) human with flesh and blood created by God’s word to Mary.
Name:sam •
Date: 04/06/07 1:00
A: ollypop,
You said: A- I believe that Faith is what you hold closest to your heart. It's what sustains you day to day.
----------------------------
The belief and faith is the relation between a person and God, by accepting Him and accepting His messages and His messengers, and you cannot pick and chose what you like and accept what you prefer (the Jews did not accept God messsage that came with Jesus, and with Christians they both rejected the messenger Muhammad and His message). and people follow blindly, they never use logic to see or seek the truth because they are blinded by their faith, THAT IS THE TRUTH.
Following God messages and His laws are benefits for us and make our life worthy in this age or for the age to come. but will not sastains it.
B- I have read that I need to repent, that my beliefs are misguided. I choose to explore NEW discoveries whether believed or not, and am told that I am a sinner.
-------------------------------
When you look for the truth, You are not a sinner. Those who told that are the sinners. God gave you the brain to understand things and gave you the logic as a tool so you can differentiate between the right and the wrong and between the true and the false. And you are the sole responsible for everything, and you will be judged fairly by God, and you should know that no one will be of any help to you in that day, not Abraham or Moses or Jesus nor Muhammad, because if that happen then the judgment will be not fair. If one kills or robs and do thing against the commandments of God then when a prophet interferes to get him out, then the court of God becomes like our courts on earth, there is no bribery in heaven. THAT IS THE TRUTH.
C- But like so many before and like the men and women who have made this site I believe I'd like to know more. I'd like to know.....
------------------------------
If you seek the truth you will find it, but you should not pick and chose, and follow blindly what you been told, but you bring everything on the table and give everyone an equal chance to prove themselves. There are three religions (those who believe in God) and each one of them has a book, and it is up to everyone to deside for himself if a book hold the truth or not, you should understand first the reason for those messages. Is the reason to tell as that God exsist and He is the Creator?, and second the purpose of the messages, Is it to bring His laws to as?.
The commandment came to Moses, and followed by Jesus and Muhammad, all of them told us that there is only one God. But God messages not followed correctly and Jesus came not to abolish what came befor but to fulfil it, and after Jesus, people changed His teaching and created things far beyound of what Jesus said, and Holy books burned etc., and another message came to bring the truth, the word of God came to a man who do not read or write, and the message been recorded during the life of the prophet, because otherwise what happen before it will happen again.
D- Dsand answer your post by saying: " Remember, PAUL SPOKE highly of the Bereans because they did not trust his words alone."
-----------------------------------
PAUL SPOKE!!!. did they forget Jesus?, do they follow Jesus or Paul?.
Did Jesus tell the truth or not?, why they egnore Jesus and bring the words of Paul and the popes and the bishops and the old books?.
they are blind following blinds and all will fallinto the pit.
Here some finding, I hope you see the truth from it.
The history of the churches full of lies, deceptions and LOL, from their biginning in Rome until now, and their followers follow their steps.
You do not follow Jesus, Jesus words are clear and hold the truth, but you follow Paul and the popes and the bishops and the fathers and the REV and everyone else. They burned the truth, and killed the people who did not accept the lies of Paul and his supporters.
1Cornintians 4:21 What do you desire? SHALL I COME TO YOU WITH A ROD, or with love and spirit of gentleness?,
-Either you follow me, or I will be using the ROD, that is PAUL doctrine, and the churches too.
Galattians-1:20 Now in what I am writing to you, I ASSUR YOU BEFORE GOD THAT I AM NOT LYING.
Romans-9:1 I AM TELLING THE TRUTH in Christ, I AM NOT LYING, MY CONSCIENCE TESTIFIES WITH ME in the holy spirit.
-Paul testify by GOD, the Holy Spirit , and not by the son of GOD?.
- Then, he lies :
Romans 3:7 But if THROUGH MY LIE the truth of GOD abounded to his glory, why am I also still being judged as a sinner.
-Is that means that HE is lying, or what?. Because lying never bring the truth , and we will never get the truth from a person who lie.
-He was judged before as a sinner, and still judged as a sinner after, that is by his own words. And from his own words came this:
Romans 3:8 And why not say, “LET US DO EVIL that good may come”? Their condemnation is just.
-Is that means that HE justified doing evil thing, or what?, and does it ever the good comes from evil?.
2Corinthians-11:16 Again I say, LET NO ONE THINK ME FOOLISH; BUT IF YOU DO, RECEIVE ME EVEN AS FOOLISH, so that I also may boast a little.
2Corinthians-11:19 For you, being so wise, tolerate the foolish gladly.
-Did any one think or said that he is foolish?, and whom?. Why he want to boast himself instead of being a humble man?.
JESUS said:
MATTHEW- 15:10 “ it is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man.”
2COR. 11: 8 I ROBBED OTHER CHURCHES by taking wages from them to serve you.
Paul robbed to serve others. That is wrong. #8 commandment: "YOU SHALL NOT STEAL".
1COR 6:3 Do you not know that WE WILL JUDGE ANGELS ? How much more matters of this life?.
"WE WILL". That means for sure, but can he do that?. Can the ANGELS OF GOD, whom they are of spirit be judged by man, Paul and his friends?. Is that a BIG LIE?.
And Paul's VISION was it true?, Can he be allowed to visit the third heaven after claiming that he will judge God Angels?.
Do you think that the personal letters and the words of Paul are from God or inspired by God?,
I would like to ask you an important question: " what you say about a man who show himself as a dimocrat in front of dimocrats, and then he make himself a republican in front of republican, the he is with the left against the right and with right against the left the right ?. Do you agree with me that such a man has different faces and has no loyalty, and cannot be trusted, and his is a liar?. then what is your opinion when you read this:
1Cor. 9:20 TO THE JEWS I BECAME AS A JEW; SO THAT I MIGHT WIN JEWS; TO THOSE WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW, AS UNDER THE LAW THOUGH NOT BEING MYSELF UNDER THE LAW, AS UNDER THE LAW, SO THAT I MIGHT WIN THOSE WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW;
1COR. 9:21 TO THOSE WHO ARE WITHOUT LAW, AS WITHOUT LAW OF GOD BUT UNDER THE LAW OF CHRIST*, SO THAT I MIGHT WIN THOSE WHO ARE WITHOUT LAW.
1COR. 9:23 I DO ALL THINGS for the sake of the gospel, SO THAT I MAY BECAME A FELLOW PARTAKER OF IT.
* Is the law of the CHRIST differ from the law of GOD?.
- Is what he said shows clearly that he is a man with many faces?
- Is that sows that his aim is to be a PARTAKER in the gospels?
- is what he said next is a prove to that.
Galatians 1:8 But even if WE (Paul and his supporter), or an ANGEL FROM HEAVEN (God's Angel), should preach to you a GOSPEL contrary to what WE HAVE PREACHED TO YOU, HE IS TO BE ACCURSED !!!.
- is what been said next is a prove to that too.
From the Catholic online Saints:
"Paul, returned to Damascus, he stayed there for a time, PREACHING in the Synagogues THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST, ‘THE SON OF GOD’.
It was mentioned that PAUL, shows himself to be a profound religious thinker and he has had an enduring INFLUENCE IN ‘ THE DEVELOPMENT OF CHRISTIANITY’."
-My understanding from the subjects above that PAUL is the one who choses and desided for you what you read or hear, and you should follow him only otherwise you will be accursed, and he was the first one to discover, and to preach that JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD, and he is the one who DEVELOPED CHRISTIANITY beyond it is originality .
Bishop John S. Spong agree with this, when he said:
"They were moving the CHRIST experience FAR BEYOUND ITS "ORIGINAL" VOCABULARY."
Also, he agree with me when he said:
"The Bible FULL OF CONTRADICTIONS AND ERRORS"
"The Gospels CANNOT BE TRUSTED to be reliable."
The word and teaching of Jesus is the whole truth, and they are clear and anyone can understand them , even a child,and should not be developed or interpreted in any other way.
Read the words of Jesus and follow Him only, and not the others who follow the TRADITION. As Jesus mentioning them:
"YOU ARE EXPERTS AT SETTING ASIDE THE COMMANDMENT OF GOD IN ORDER TO KEEP YOUR TRADITION. Mark 7:9
God bless you.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 04/06/07 1:28
A: Seek and ye shall find let the truth shine in.
Name:nothing_but_the_truth •
Date: 04/06/07 2:41
A: 'DSand' wrote:
"The Bible encourages us to seek truth and not believe things we are told on face value."
And not just the bible, but pretty much every collection of ancient wisdom.
By the way... Did you know that much of the wisdom, sayings, advice et cetera attributed to Solomon in fact originates from an Egyptian source, namely a man by the name of Amenemipe, who compiled a collection of advice for his son?
A wise man doesn't re-invent the wheel, but rather spends his time on improving what already exists and adding to it.
Name:sam •
Date: 04/07/07 15:24
A: Chris,
You claimed this:
"your faith need not be blind* . I went years figuring faith had to be blind but soon enough, through the Bible, I had to submit that it's design couldn't have been done by man ** . It is so detailed, so precise, so specific and does not contradict that eventually you have to concede."***
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* A- about the Christian faith;
1- You believe that Jesus is the son of God.. The son of God idea created& preached by Paul, in Damscus for the first time, after Jesus death. Paul never met or spoke to Jesus. Jesus mentioned Himself as the "SON OF MAN" 89 times in the 4 gospels, and His word a clear proof to that, "WHEN YOU LIFT UP THE 'SON OF MAN' THEN YOU WILL KNOW THAT 'I AM HE'" J-8:28
2- You belive in the Trinity!!!. This formula was created in Rome by the Emperor Constantene and some Bishops, after 325+ years from Jesus death. It took them 6 decades to finalize it.
Jesus said: "NO ONE IS GOOD EXCEPT ' GOD ALONE'", "THE LORD OUR GOD IS 'ONE LORD'".
Read the words of Jesus, "FOR JESUS 'HIMSELF TESTIFIED' THAT A PROPHET HAS NO HONOR IN HIS OWN COUNTRY". Go back and read the whole story. It wasn't about another prophet but about Jesu and His brothers and sisters.
Whom you think is righ and telling the truth.
The people at His time knows Him as a prophet. "THIS IS TRULY THE PROPHET WHO IS TO COME INTO THE WORLD." J- 6:14
My question, "are they blind? can they understand what Jesus clearly said?
** B- "I had to submit that it's design couldn't have been done by man."
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If the design came from God then it suppose to be perfect, but it is not. Let us hear what the retired Bishop John S. Song wrote:
- THE BIBLE FULL OF CONTRADICTIONS AND ERRORS.
- THE GOSPELS CANNOT BE TRUSTED TO BE RELIABLE.
If you do not believe that what the bishop brought , then ask me, I will bring those contraditions and errors, also those not reliable ones.
*** C- "It is so detailed, so precise, so specific and does not contradict that eventually you have to concede."
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1--- So detailed . That the creation done in 6 days, and on the 7th God rested!!!. God Get tired like man?
2- So precise. The sun, the moon and the stars were created after the earth, and some life and livings on earth created before the creation of th sun!!!.
3- So specific. (Luke 3:23-38) the recorD of the genealogy: from supposed to be, Jesus son of Joseph to Seth, the son of ADAM, THE SON OF GOD. All recorded and not even one name missing, all suppose to be correct and true!!!.
Some tried to prove that the bible is true.
many believe that the earth isn't very old? There are two scriptural reasons. Both assume that the creation of Adam and Eve took place very close to the beginning of the earth. One of these scriptural reasons is that it is possible to use the genealogies in Genesis to come up with an age for the earth. Bishop Ussher famously did that. I personally have a bible with Ussher's chronology in it. He calculated that creation took place in 4004 B.C.
Archbishop James Ussher of Armagh, Ireland, calculated from the Bible (augmented by some astronomy and numerology) that creation began on October 23, 4004 BC.
I SHOULD SAY NO MORE.
God bless you.
Name:sam •
Date: 04/07/07 20:55
A: Kirby1777,
You wrote: "I was born and raised christian, however I am also a scientist, I am also an amiture Bible student (Biblical critisism), "
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As a Christian, you belive that your faith/religion is right and the others faiths are wrong. Did you ever tried to learn about them, and if they are representing the truth?. Are the Jews on the wrong ?, was the teaching of Abraham and Moses and the commandment wrong? Do they all believe in one God. "YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME". are those which written in # 1 commandment the word of God?.
Can you judge the Islam faith before you know all the truth about it?.
"I believe that through the years that all religions have been so changed by man to suit their needs, that there is no way of knowing that any religion is truly the way that God wants it to be.
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You are wrong. If you want the truth, here it is.
- Jesus teachings were simple, for the people around Him to understand His message. They were fisherman, carpenters, farmers and for those who cannot read or write. But when the Christianity moved away from the holy land to Greece and Rome, the simple teaching CHANGED to become a complicated, PHILOSOPHICALLY, THEOLOGICALLY, MYTHOLOGICALLY, and MAN MADE, THEORETICALLY , mixed up teaching, to became only understood by the leaders only, and the others follow blindly.
As a scientist you should understand this fact.
- and saying, "all religions have been so changed by man to suit their needs". You are wrong when you said "ALL", because only your early fathers and their churches burned the gospels and the books which been written by eye witness, those who heard Jesus voice, and replace them by the chosen gospels, which been written by the students of Paul, those who neve been with Jesus. All that done to agree with Paul teaching, " But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Gal 1:8, not even GOD'S ANGELS.. WOW
THAT IS A FACT.
- As for the Holy book of Islam "THE QURAN", It was written during the life of the prophet and under His supervision (not after, as the case of the bible & the gospels), none of the book words or letters been change, and it is the same book all around the world, (it is not the same with your books). The King James Version (KJV), The New American Standard Version (NASV) is EXCELLENT. The American Standard Version (ASV) is also EXCELLENT and highy accurate, The New International Version (NIV) tries to make the text as easy to understand as possible and is an EXCELLENT reading Bible, BUT NOT A GOOD TO STUDY Bible. The New World Translation (1950, the Jehovah's Witnesses Bible) SHOULD BE AVOIDED because its is actually CORRUPT
- EXCELLENT...BUT NOT A GOOD TO STUDY. Why?, ...Because it is easy to understand!!!.
- It is suppose to be hard to understand to good?. was it Jesus words hard to understand?.
- Before 1400 years the Quran brought knowledge and teachings wich wasn't to people of that time and not to people until GALILEO (the one who been put under house arrest by the churches, when he said that the earth and the mooon are orbitting the sun!!! and as a scientist you know that Galileo was right and the churches were wrong)
Here some:
"O Muhammad, say to them, "GO TRAVEL THROUGH THE EARTH AND OBSERVE HOW THE CREATION BEGAN" Q-29:20
"AND YOU WILL SURELY KNOW THE TRUTH OF ITS INFORMATION AFTER TIME." Q-38:88
Here some of the information:
1- "Have those who disbelieved not CONSIDERED that the HEAVEN AND EARTH WERE JOINED ENTITY, AND WE SEPARATE THEM." Q-21:30
2- " And the heaven we constructed with strength AND INDEED WE ARE ITS EXPANDER." Q-51:47 (the expanding universe theory, and it is a fact)
3- "And it is HE who created the night and the day and the sun and the moon; ALL HEAVENLY BODIES, IN AN ORBIT ARE SWIMMING." Q-21:33 That is a proven fact by the sciense of the 21st century).
My question to you as scientist, Logically and scientificall, which one you accept as true informations, those that came in these examples (1,2 &3), or the 1st, 2nd & 3rd days of creation where the earth, the water, the land, the animals and grass were created while the sun and the moon and the stars created after in the 4th day.
As a scientist if you do not know the facts the check it out from NASA, the Hubble, and the many other scientific sites. I do not think that their information is not true.
God bless you
