Name:dattaswami •
Title: What is the consequence of Suicide •
Date posted: 05/21/07 3:03
Q: What is the consequence of Suicide
Shri Ramanath asked about the consequences of the suicide.
Swami replied “As I told you, the human life is almost impossible. The Christianity and Islam do not agree re-human birth. In Hinduism the re-human birth is admitted but it is said to be very rare. When the same God is the speaker of all the religions, there cannot be contradiction. Therefore, this means the re-human birth is generally impossible. But the omnipotent God can sanction the re-human birth to a soul if there is a hope of its upliftment. The human birth is meant for the human being having interest in spiritual knowledge. It does not mean mere human form.
Eating, sleep, emotions related to the environment and sex to produce children are common to both human beings and animals (Ahara Nidra Bhaya Mithunani…). The human birth with spiritual knowledge and coming in contact with the human incarnation happens only once. Such a human birth is called as Brahmana. Here this word is not at all related to the present caste system. The Brahmana means the human being belonging to any caste having full interest in the spiritual field and comes in contact with the human form of the Lord with faith so that he attains the perfect spiritual knowledge (Brahma Jnanam). If such chance is missed, he will be born as Kshatriya who believes only in his effort and efficiency with full egoism.
The next birth is Vysya having over attachment to wealth. The next birth is Sudra who is always selfish. The next birth is fisherman (Ganga putra) in which he kills the fish in the water. The next birth is hunter (vyadha) who kills the animals in the forest. The last birth of human form is Chandala who kills even the animals that served him. Thus, the soul descends by seven births and finally enters the cycle of animals, birds , worms etc.
The soul existing as Brahmana will never commit suicide. The souls of other levels only commit suicides due to problems in the world. The Brahmana will never commit suicide because he is well aware of the main divine aim of the human life. Even if the soul of other types is alive there is very little chance of its upliftment. Veda says that by committing suicide the soul enters the world of permanent darkness which means ignorance (asuryanaamate…). This means that the soul directly enters the cycle of animals etc., on committing suicide. Thus there is only one chance of the birth of Brahmana for a soul, which means that there is only one chance for any soul to have the real fruitful human birth in which it can meet the human incarnation.
In the other births the soul has only a very tiny trace of chance to meet and recognize the human form of the Lord in true spirit. All ready when the possibility of the upliftment of self is a trace only, if suicide is committed, it looses that trace of chance also. Thus, one in seven persons can only recognize the human form of the God in the right spirit of the upliftment of the self. The other human beings do not recognize at all and even if they recognize, they try to use the Lord for the worldly matters only.
The real suicide is that when the soul is not trying for its spiritual upliftment and always is dragged by the worldly affairs only. Such a soul will become a lizard which is always watching for an insect to eat. All its concentration is on the insect only. Gopikas jumped into fire after hearing the death of Krishna. But it is not suicide, because they have realized the main aim of the human life, which is the Lord only. What is the use of a soul always immersed in worldly affairs and worldly bonds only? Such a soul has really committed suicide already because the soul killed itself (Naatmaana mavasadayet-Gita).
When the sage Sanatsujata came to Dhrutarashtra, Dhrutarashtra asked him about the death. Then the sage told that the real death is that by which the soul forgets God and is completely immersed in the world (Pramadakhyo Mrurtyuh). Thus, the soul which leaves without any contact with God is already a dead soul, which committed suicide. Gopikas are immortal even though they have committed suicide since they sacrificed their lives for the love of God. This gross body is just like a shirt according to Gita (Vasamsi Jirnani..). Therefore, committing suicide is not a big thing for a realized soul. It is just like changing the cloth. But the purpose for which the suicide is committed is very very important. If the purpose is due to any worldly matter, the soul is thrown in to the permanent hell. The reason for this is that the soul has to detach from the world and attach itself to God.
Instead of doing this, the soul is disturbed due to over attachment to the world and is committing suicide. In the memory of Krishna, Radha became mad and wandered in the Brindavanam without food and water. She finally died in the madness of Krishna. That is suicide due to over attachment to God, but the consequence of such sacrifice of life is divine and has immortal fruit.
Jesus also sacrificed His life for the sake of God. He said that if one does not carry on his own cross for the sake of God, he cannot be the dearest devotee of God. Gita says that a real devotee will even give up the life for the sake of God (Matgata Pranah….). Therefore, the consequence of suicide for any worldly matter is only the permanent hell. When Meera was given poison, she swallowed it and was saved by the Lord. Hanuman tore His heart with His own nails to show Lord in His heart. All these cases of attempt of suicide but have immense spiritual value. Dhrutarashtra lived hundred and twenty years but he has already committed suicide, even though he was alive, because he did not listen to the advice of Lord Krishna even in the worldly matter.
At the Lotus Feet of His Holiness Sri Dattaswami
Anil Antony
www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace [email protected]
Name:Shlomo •
Date: 05/21/07 4:53
A: Re-incarnation is a huministic creation for the purpose of escapism. This is a direct end result of the worship of false g-ds.
Name:betty47 •
Date: 05/21/07 12:25
A: Isn't reincarnation the product of a human hope that one never dies? Can these thoughts of eternal life and reincarnation found in many religions ever really be true? Isn't that what drives many people to believe deep down inside..that we can overcome death? That the soul or the body lives on?
Also, what do we make of the suicide of wives for hundreds of years in India when they jumped into the funeral fire when their husbands died? It was almost a requirement that they die and not remarry when their husbands died.
Name:dattaswami •
Date: 05/21/07 14:44
A: betty47;
Rebirth-Christ-anity-Islam-Hinduism
Yo-u- say that the same Lord revealed the same knowledge in the entire world in different languages. But Islam and Christianity say that there is no rebirth. Hinduism speaks about the rebirth. If the Lord is same, how this contradiction comes?
---------------
Only one Lord created this entire universe. He should have told the same knowledge everywhere in the world. The contradiction is only due to misunderstanding. In Hinduism also Sankara says that again human birth is almost impossible (Jantunaam Nara Janma Durlabhamidam). Sankara was the incarnation of Siva and so what He told is also authoritative. Even Gita says that the soul comes back to this world but does not say that the soul gets again the human birth (Ksheene Punye Martyalokam Visanti). In the second chapter, Gita speaks about rebirth but not about the human rebirth. Islam and Christianity say that the human birth is given only as a single chance. After this the final judgement is given. The soul either goes to the Lord or goes to the hell permanently. In Gita also there are two ways for the soul. Either the soul goes to the Lord and does not return back or the soul returns back to the world (Abrahma Bhuvanath, Yat Gatva). According to Gita, if the soul does not go to the Lord (Brahmaloka), it returns back after enjoying the fruits of incomplete spiritual effort. Therefore in this human birth, if the spiritual effort is completed, the soul goes to the Brahmaloka permanently.
If the spiritual effort is incomplete the soul may go up to any world below Brahmaloka, it will return back to this earth after enjoying the fruits of its incomplete spiritual effort. The soul may go up to the sixth world, it cannot go to the Brahmaloka, which is the seventh world by doing the remaining spiritual effort in the sixth world. The reason is once the soul leaves this earth all the upper worlds are only Bhogalokas i.e., the worlds in which the soul can enjoy the fruits, but cannot do any work (Karma). Therefore the soul has to return back to the earth. The soul will not get again another chance of human birth because once it is failed it can never succeed. Therefore the soul comes to the earth and falls into the cycle of animals and birds only. When the soul is trapped in this cycle of animal births, it is treated as a permanent hell.
If the soul goes to Brahmaloka it always accompanies the Lord either in Brahmaloka or may come back to the earth along with the Lord who takes the human incarnation. In such case the soul is born as a divine servant of the Lord. Such soul will not take rebirth in the cycle of animals. Thus for the divine soul also there is no such rebirth. In this way Hinduism, Islam and Christianity are correlated as one concept preached by the one Lord. Christians and Muslims are putting up sincere spiritual effort because there is a threat that this human life is the only chance. There is no reexamination according to these religions. This human birth is the only one examination and the soul either passes or fails and will not be allowed for any reexamination. But in Hinduism such threat is not there.
People have taken a lenient view on the spiritual life because they think that the human rebirths are possible and so they can put up the spiritual effort slowly in the future human births. The Lord cannot say different theories to different people. The rule must be same for all the human beings of the world. Therefore whatever the Lord told in Christianity and Islam also told the same in Hinduism. Hindus misunderstood the concept. Therefore what ever may be the religion, every human being should think “Now or Never”.
The human rebirth is only for Yoga Bhrashta i.e., the soul, which has reached Brahmaloka and fell due to some slip. Such a soul is suspended from Brahmaloka and comes down to the earth and takes rebirth as a human being only. You have passed the P.G. Degree and obtained the post of the lecturer. But you were suspended for a month due to some mistake. You will be re-appointed.
Similarly the Yoga Bhrashta will be born as a human being for some time and will come back to Brahmaloka. The case of incomplete spiritual effort is different from Yoga Bhrashta. The incomplete spiritual person is like a B.A. Degree holder who never achieved the lecturer post. You cannot argue that you can be appointed as a seventy five percent lecturer since you reached seventy five percent of the total educational period (from school to P.G.Degree is hundred percent) by getting a B.A. Degree.
Thus there is no partial achievement by partial spiritual effort. The grace of the Lord is either hundred percent or zero. If it is hundred percent you are reaching Brahmaloka. If it is Zero percent you are falling back to the earth in the cycle of animals and birds. There is no third way in between these two. When this truth is revealed, only one in thousands will try to put the real spiritual effort as said in Gita (Manushyaanaam Sahasreshu). By this Hindus will become alert in spiritual effort like Christians and Muslims.
Name:dattaswami •
Date: 05/21/07 14:49
A: Shlomo;
Soul is pure awareness, which is a special work form of energy produced by the oxidation of food. Its generation requires the function of several biological systems also like lungs, stomach, nervous system etc. When any one of these fail, the energy is not produced and awareness in general disappears as in the deep sleep in which the nervous system takes rest. But the subtle body, which is a bundle of strong feelings (Samskaras), which are the waves of awareness, is not destroyed and it leaves the body for final enquiry. The enquiry is conducted by God based on these Samskaras only and not mere pure awareness, which is common in every soul. If you mean the subtle body for the soul, it is not destroyed. Even in the subtle body, pure awareness exists like gold in the jewels.
Name:dattaswami •
Date: 05/21/07 14:51
A: Shlomo;
Who will actually get human re-birth?
___________________-_____________________
Sharma:- Who is actually getting the human rebirth? I would like to know
The actual point that gives the hum rebirth, Swami! Kindly explain
I may not go to higher or highest levels in the spiritual journey but
I should have a minimum guarantee of human birth so that at least
I shall be careful about that point in every human birth, since if
The human birth is assured, I will slowly follow other spiritual points.
Swami: You have asked a very important question because if you get
At least the human rebirth you can think of other points in the path
That facilitates you to reach higher and even highest level slowly.
If you get a rebirth as an animal or a bird, the spiritual progress is
Blocked completely since birds and animals cannot analyse knowledge.
I am giving the straight answer to your question, be ready to receive.
The only point that can give you the human rebirth to you is
That you should approach and serve the present human incarnation.
The intensity in your service will decide the higher and highest levels.
Gita says “Yanti mat yajinopi mam” which means that if the devotee worships
The human form, he shall get the human birth once again.
Gita says that one gets the birth of that form which he likes and worships
That form as the Lord “Yea yatha mam prapadyante”, it is also said
“Yet bhavam tat bhavati” which means that whatever you like much
That you shall obtain, when you like a particular item in the creation
To the climax, you will treat it as God because you like God also
To the climax, climax being common this concept is quite logical.
If one worships God as the inert energy like light or fire, he will be
The light or fire in the next birth, if one worships God as formless,
He will be born as the formless space or to say that he will be nothing.
Gita says “Bhutejyah yanti bhutani” which means that he who worships
The inert objects shall be born as an inert object like stone.
In this verse people say that the word Bhuta means ghost.
That meaning is also acceptable and we can say that he who worships,
Ghosts shall become the ghost, the general concept is not damaged.
The general concept is that one becomes that which he likes and worships.
You cannot deny the meaning of inert element for the word Bhuta.
The word Pancha Bhuta means the five inert elements, in fact
In the entire Gita the word Bhuta is used only to mean the inert five elements.
I am not contradicting your version also as it supports the general concept.
But you cannot oppose the meaning I have taken for the word Bhuta here,
Especially when the word is used in my meaning in the entire Gita.
Even if you say that the word means a living being, no problem then also
A devotee who worships a plant shall become the plant and a devotee
Who worships a bird shall become a bird and a devotee who worships
An animal shall become an animal and he who worships a human form shall
Become the human being; therefore the concept is very clear in this context.
At the Lotus Feet of His Holiness Sri Dattaswami
Anil Antony
www.universal-s-pirituality.org
Universa-l- Spirituality for World Peace [email protected]
Yo-u- say that the same Lord revealed the same knowledge in the entire world in different languages. But Islam and Christianity say that there is no rebirth. Hinduism speaks about the rebirth. If the Lord is same, how this contradiction comes?"
Isn't this just semantics? My humble opinion is that they are all concepts to overcome death.
Name:Messiah •
Date: 05/21/07 22:02
A: - What is the consequence of Suicide
Simple: you die.
To get into the Kingdom of heaven you'll have to be remembered. In history suicidals wasn't allowed to be burried in graveyards, so how could they be remembered longterm? That's the simple key regarding graveyards.
/Messiah
Name:dattaswami •
Date: 05/23/07 2:38
A: betty47;
In Islam and Christianity there is no rebirth for the soul. The soul gets human birth only once. After this human birth the soul will either go to the Lord or will go to the hell permanently. Only one Lord created this entire universe. Therefore the policy should be the same for all the souls in this universe. There is only one Lord. All the souls are equal to Him. Can you deny this? If you don’t agree with this theory, you can follow your own faith. But your faith is not important. The truth is important. What ever is true, that alone happens and not as per your faith. If you agree with this policy I can correlate all the religions.
If you can correlate all the religions in a better way, I will also agree with you. If you are not caring for the correlation and follow your faith only, there is nothing for me to preach you. My correlation of all the religions is like this : In Gita two paths are explained. In the first path one goes to Brahmaloka without returning back. In the other path one returns back to this earth and falls in the cycle of births and deaths which is the wheel of Samsara. In all the religions there are only two paths. Reaching Brahmaloka is reaching the Lord. Falling in the cycle animals and births is going to the hell permanently. The soul which, has fallen in this hell will never get the human rebirth in which there is facility of trying to reach Brahmaloka. Not getting such a spiritual human rebirth is the absence of rebirth.
The soul which, goes to Brahmaloka will never get the rebirth of animals and birds and in such sense this soul also has no rebirth. But one point is to be understood carefully. The birth of animal, bird, worm etc., does not mean the actual animal or bird or worm etc., There are several human beings who live like animals, birds and worms. Such human births are also the births of animals, birds, worms etc., We are seeing such human beings in majority on this earth. They are immersed in the worldly bonds like money, children etc., They cannot cut their blind love to these worldly bonds. Even if they put some spiritual effort, it is incomplete because of the attachment with these bonds.
Such souls when they go to the upper worlds are also involved in such bonds in the upper worlds also. They can never attain Brahmaloka by preaching any amount of divine knowledge to them. But if they are not preached they will blame the Lord during the enquiry posing that they might have attained Brahmaloka, had they received the divine knowledge. The Lord preaches them also only to save himself from such blame and not to save them. Therefore if you are having all the facilities and also interest in the spiritual line this is the best birth for you and this is the only chance for you. If you waste this human birth you are falling into the births of animals etc., You are not given such chance again.
Islam and Christianity say that the soul has to wait for the final enquiry which, is to be done at the end of this world. This human body (Pindanda) is stated as the world (Brahmanda). The human body is a mini world containing the same components. Therefore the death of this human body can be treated as the end of this world from the point of the soul. You can also treat the day as birth and night as death. Veda says that the deep sleep is equal to death (Naviduhu Sati Sampatsyama Iti). Gita also says the same (Prabhavantyaharagame). Therefore the feelings (Samskaras) of previous births mean only the feelings of yesterday.
If you are on the spiritual line and if you are making sincere spiritual effort to cut these worldly bonds and to strengthen the bond with the Lord, your lifetime can be extended by the Lord. You will cross the day of your death by the grace of the Lord, which is a rebirth. Such extension of life will help you really in the spiritual effort if you are given a human rebirth there will be lot of gap since you have to stay in the womb of your mother and you have to cross the childhood. Such long gap will give a serious break in your spiritual effort.
From this point of view also there is no human rebirth. If one cannot attain the Brahmaloka in this human birth itself by getting the extension of life, can such a soul get Brahmaloka in the next human birth after such a long gap? Gita also says that the soul is taking birth and death constantly during the day and night (Athachainam Nitya Jatam). Like this all the three religions can be correlated and only one theory is evolved.
