Name:admin •
Title: What would YOU ask Simcha? •
Date posted: 03/23/07 14:04
Q: If you could ask Simcha anything about his findings of the tomb, what would it be? Well, here's your opportunity!
To all Jesus Tomb Forum Users: My name is Diane, and I am representing this site's adminitration. I am posting this thread because we have the privilege of being able to conduct a one-on-one interview TODAY (March 23, 2007) with the "Lost Tomb of Jesus" director, Simcha Jacobovici. We will be asking him all the burning questions still lingering from his controversial film. However, we wanted to extend this opportunity with all of you.
On this thread, please let us know what questions YOU wouid ask Simcha, and we will do our best to incorporate them into our intervew. Please be aware this thread will only be valid through until 12pm eastern time.
Thank you!
Name:TFS •
Date: 03/23/07 16:41
A: Yes, thank you
1.) There was a preview of a possible tomb adjacent to the present one under discussion. Has this site been accessed and if so, what are the findings in this tomb.
2.) What is the latest in the trial of the the present owner of the James Ossuary?
3.) Do you maintain the same deductions about this tomb as when you first presented the material?
Thank you,
Pat
Name:starman2fly •
Date: 03/23/07 17:20
A: Sorry, just saw this and hope not too late to get in.
I would ask Simcha does it not seem unreal the lack of interest, the quick dismissal, the rapid fading in about one day from the news, of what to him I surmise and to myself is clearly something that from the evidence shown should have the opposite effect. And that is a vast understatement. Does it seem to him as if they cannot hear him as if the boy saying the obvious to the crowd praising the emperors' new clothes still does not make them see what's plainly before them? I am not asking him to say why this is but just does the reaction seem unreal as it does to me.
Thank you.
Starman
Name:garysmplsmn •
Date: 03/23/07 18:31
A: Don't have cable, so I haven't seen anything, but this website's interviews with Simcha. I got the feeling from them that he sympathizes a lot with the Da Vinci code - resuscitation-escape-to-France-Merovingian dynasty scenario. But, it really seems that that scenario is LESS likely if Jesus was indeed buried in Jerusalem. (Why would he have come back?, etc., etc.) I have no problem with Jesus having been married and fathering a child, etc. But, is it appropriate to take vindication of that allegation as vindication of the whole Da Vinci code hypothesis? Is there really any evidence, prior to the French knights returning from the crusades, that either Jesus or Mary Magdalene ever went there? If not, let's stick to what the Talpiot tomb actually gives us as far as evidence.
Secondly, is anyone planning to conduct further DNA tests to see whether the DNA of Jesus and Mary his mother shows a parent-child relationship? Similarly with the DNA of Judah, Jesus, and Mariamne? Is there any DNA in the James ossuary that could be compared? Would it be possible to compare Jesus' DNA with any that might be on the shroud of Turin?
It seems to me that Simcha has done the journalistic thing and rushed a story to the public's attention and drawn sensational implications that are not inherent in the evidence. Much of the research seems good, but not necessarily all of his interpretations. Before making these other connections, he should seek out other credible academics to answer a lot of obvious questions about the DNA that would surely have a great deal of bearing on whether we can say that this even IS a family tomb, much less where that family lived and died.
Name:Xcavate •
Date: 03/23/07 20:58
A: Thank you for this opportunity,hope I am not to late. And will we be able to see the results of this interview or see it live on the web?
Simcha thank you for bringing this to the public Eye when so many in the field dismissed this as a possibilty. Can you tell us what is going on in the field at this time and will you be invovled in any more of the research?, Thank you.
Name:Miles •
Date: 03/24/07 3:14
A: Thanks to Jacobovici,Pellegrino and Cameron for their good work and their corurage. Plausibility, sensibility and spirituallity have never been supported by the inappropriate literalist belief that Jesus floated into the sky like a helium balloon, a medievial intepretation that obfuscates Christianity and leaves it in dysfunction. Christians need to stop worshiping their doctrine and embrace the message of compassion, tolerance and service to others in the grace of our amazement at creation, as Jesus advocated. I don't think that he ever intended the doctrinal nonsense that preoccupies most fundamentalist and near-fundamentalist Christian organizations. It is not only that Jacobovici embraces the far better plausibility but that this work can only improve Christianity and resurrect the message that has been lost in a mound of doctrine and dogma. This voicing within Christianity is less strident than than the 'posessors of the literal truth' but is nevertheless present and significant. If Ted Koppel were seeking balance, why was this viewpoint not included in the dialogue?
Name:sadinoel •
Date: 03/24/07 17:56
A: I'm too late but I'd ask him:
1) Why was the statistical data from such a limited pool of names and why was it misrepresented to the public as credible scientific data when it was clearly made to fit his hypothesis?
2) Why did he circumvent the usual academic process of peer review and go straight to the media?
3) Why would he choose to cite the owner of the James Ossuary as some expert when his credibility is questionable at best, and he has been found in posession of multiple forged antiquities (even if the James Ossuary is "real" which I do doubt as well).
4) Why did he not create a null hypothesis to test his claim against? In other words, why did he not use the Scientific Method and instead started with a conclusion then work to make evidence fit that conclusion instead of starting with "we don't know" as his idea and ruling out other possibilities?
5) Why would the apostles have martyred themselves for something they knew was a lie, if indeed Jesus did not physically ascend?
6) Why have several of his "experts" (including his stats expert) distanced themselves from this case after being informed that they were not given complete data sets to work with?
Best,
Sadinoel
Name:Miles •
Date: 03/25/07 5:27
A: 1) What better representative pool of names does Sadinoel have?
2) When a predisposed and stilted academic bureaucracy fails its mission, isn't their an entitlement to stir the pot?
3) Looking at the facts of the case, doesn't the real lack of credibility lie with the IAA and the huge mistakes that they made in their analysis, as so many other experts and professionals in the field pointed out?
4) Why don't we use a null hypothesis for the idea that Jesus floated into the sky like a helium baloon?
5) Perhaps the apostles never envisioned that over the years that a corrupt religious bureaucracy would reinvent their mission and relegate it to the worship of doctrine?
6) Do you think that mainstream religious institutions, religious academia, the media, the body politic are capable of approaching this issue with scientific detachment and impartiality or will they defend their investment of their established position?
Have a nice day
Name:Delyn •
Date: 03/25/07 21:58
A: I'd like to know what he has found out about:
1) the theee skulls, and what does that symbolize?
2) the inscription on the wall: Has anyone tried to interpret the writing?
Name:gnotcivulf •
Date: 03/26/07 6:54
A: AAAARRRRGH!!!!! I am too late!!!! Was away for day or so and ARRRRGGGH!!!
Oh,well.
Aside from all of the questions others have posted, I just wanna know what Simcha has to say about Joe Zias' claim that the missing tenth ossuary was was catalogued (as plain with NO inscriptions) and stored away, therefore disproving his theory that the James ossuary was said missing ossuary.
But, I'm too late.
Sigh.... whimper.... (cue violins).
Name:Red •
Date: 03/26/07 14:09
A: This is late but if you read it maybe you canj throw it at him..... What does he remember reading from the old scroll pages tossed around on the tomb floor??
Name:sadinoel •
Date: 03/26/07 21:34
A: Miles
1) Hmmm how about the entire population base in the geographic area for starters? Think critically and don't be so gullable ok? They used a pool of 1000 names. Hardly enough for a sample size to claim the ridiculous odds being 600:1. Laughable to any statistician, which is why they didn't tell the guy what they were using his data for. duh.
2) Yes I am sure that Simcha is so altruistic as you put it. Get real.
3) IAA errors are suspect to minor at best. However Simcha's cronie Oded Golan was found in posession of MULTIPLE FORGED ANTIQUITIES. Now tell me again where the credibility problems lie?
4) Fortunately for Christains they do not have to create a null hypothesis here since the subject of this debate is the validity of the find, not "if Jesus floated to heaven" (as you so eloquently put it). Simcha is the one who has the burden of proof. Hope you can understand this simple concept. You are so grossly biased you can not even evaluate the case without resorting to straw man arguments and changing the subject. LOL!
5) What? That blurb you put in for #5 does not even remotely answer the question. I will repeat, why would the apostles have martyred themselves if they knew it was a lie?
6) I am calling out THEIR OWN experts. They invested (as you put it) in Simcha and now are realizing all the ridiculous conclusions from inconclusive evidence that he is claiming in order to sell books on Amazon by capitalizing on the gullable masses (people like you who buy into this hook line and sinker). Besides, Yep I do think that people unrelated to this case are perfectly capable of approaching this in a unbiased manner. You are grouping so many differing and vast organizations into one view when in reality so many people from so many backgrounds and disciplines have called out the ridiculous holes and problems with the data, the people involved, and the motives its not even funny.
Or wait... it MUST be a conspiracy like you say right? LOL... look up Occams Razor.
Name:sadinoel •
Date: 03/26/07 21:41
A: Why do I keep coming back here... it's like looking at a car accident I guess. This is so last months news now. Nobody even cares any more. If there was a REAL find here there are plenty of people out there (CREDIBLE ONES) who would be backing up Simcha. Money makes the world go round and people would be eager to grab a piece if it was legit. People would love to see the Christian faith crumble and would be all over this. There are plenty of folks who would love if this were real but even THEY are not going to associate themselves with shoddy pseudo science.
Please do not respond with conspiracy theory baloney. If I want that I'll go watch the DaVinci code again... geeez.
Name:Elizabeth •
Date: 03/27/07 3:57
A: Mr. Simcha, (and to those concerned Christians)
It is wrong for anyone, other than God, to judge what was/is truly in your heart concerning your motives as to why you chose this project. I pray
it was for good reasons. I applaud your interest in it.
I would like to offer my thoughts on the topic.
1) I do believe it is possible that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene
(Which would explain why Satan tempted Jesus with all things...except women (Mt 4), and oil anointing, and 1st at tomb, at crucifixion, etc.)
2) Yet, He certainly was both man and God in flesh. He died on the cross, was resurrected, and seen by thousands. But not in a physical
body, but a spiritual one- which ascended to Heaven.
Now I don't know if your tomb is - the tomb. However, it is possible. And the New Testament is accurate, as well.
Here's my beliefs concerning how that is possible...
Mary was, indeed, his wife- which is why he appeared to her first. When he spoke not to cling to him, was as a husband would say to a wife. He
knew he could not stay with her.
Within our body is a soul and spirit. (God, the Father, is a spirit.) When our physical bodies die, our soul and spirit live on. The soul
surrounds the spirit (like our mind) and it is the spirit that manifests the soul which is like our bodies, but eternal. This is how those
saw him and felt him. It certainly appears as a physical body, but is an eternal body that does not die and can live in Heaven.
The Shroud of Turin is real. When Jesus was resurrected (the first- as he said so), the spirit of God was within him. The spirit of God, The Father, is unlike any other spirit, so powerful that it reacted in comparison to a body being cremated so much so that it left an imprint on the Shroud.
Now...
When Mary came to the tomb and found it opened-- Jesus's body was indeed missing.
She went to get the apostle Peter, both returned.
Peter went inside and saw that Jesus' body was missing, the linen clothes lay about. But the napkin that had lay across his face was wrapped, and put aside.
Peter, wanting to get to the bottom of it all, ran back. But Mary stayed, and the Lord appeared to her 1st.
So, if Mary was his wife would not his physical remains belong to her, while his soul and spirit belonged to God?
So, I ask you Mr. Simcha- what do you think was in the napkin?
John 20:7
wrapped: to enclose in something.
fold: to wrap up
Jesus was God in flesh, and nothing can ever change that- even if He was married... It is true.
Blessings, ED
Name:johndaly •
Date: 03/27/07 11:54
A: Q.1 Did the Vatican State vote in favour of the UN resolution in 1947/8 to creat the State of Isreal? If so, I wonder if they (the Vatican) have a sidebar agreement in return with the Isreal gov't (IAA) to notify them 1st when senestive sites are identified?
Q.2 Is there a world/global org. overseaing archeologyical digs? Seems to me the unprofessionalism by the IAA in 1980 is worthy of sanction?
Q.3 What guarantee do we have that the as yet unexcavated 2nd tomb won't be tampered with by the IAA again, before it can be excavated, this time by non-Isreal archelologists?
Q.4 Were DNA tests completed among the Jesus, Mariamne & Judah assuraries? Results?
Q. 5 Will there be a sequel documentry/book when the 2nd tomb is opened?
Q. 6 Can tourists visit the Talipot tomb site?
Q.7 Why do the Orthodox Jews have such influence once any tomb is found re: reburying remains?
Q.8 What else have the IAA found but not disclosed?
Q.9 Is the Talipot area & other similar areas re: 1st century burial sites ever been considered World Heritage sites, thus protected from unprofessionals, corrupt Officials, etc.?
Name:revelation616 •
Date: 03/28/07 0:05
A: Well this goes beyond the tomb... Simcha I asked you this News Talk Radio in Paltalk. I'll ask you, here, again. When will you make your next documentary "the Lost Gospel of Yeshua, the Essene Christ." Oh BTW, I forgot to tell you I am a revelationist. All things have been revealed to me. You have until 2011. Please hurry. Time is of the essence. Kevin
Name:Anchorite •
Date: 03/28/07 5:53
A: Simcha, I trust your instincts. I am thankful for whatever you may uncover. I marvel at your courage. I am a friend.
Name:JUPITOR1 •
Date: 03/30/07 16:09
A: We know that we can find out who is a father of the child by DNA.It means we can have Jesus DNA. We can find out Jesus DNA by His son'
Judah. And we can find out by Jacob' DNA if he was biological father of
Jesus. By that we can solve His mystery of birth. If according by Exorcism
demon spirit (by my understending negative,regected spirit-energy in heaven) possesses a person,then we can believe easily,that God'Spirit
that possessed Virgin Mary had certain mission toward humanity. It means that Magi by Astrology knew that Somebody has to born exact time
and place,but they didn't know personally Him and His family, in the time of His birth. Only He would be known the later time,when He showes the signs of His presence on Earth.That's why every family's first neoborn was killed at that time. One more time I am convinced that we are about
to witness the biggest discovery in the world,not only by His life and death
but His purpose of existence. He knew that in the Age of Aquarius His teaching's real meaning would be uncovered. And Science has a big deal with that. Thank you for your bravery.
As I said previous postage Who would name his child Judah, if this name is the last one on his list. It was my first reaction after I saw your documentary.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 04/01/07 14:56
A: Hi Simcha,
I know this is very late for this post.My computor went on the fritz for 2 and a half weeks during the time this was offered..My question is this:Have there been any DNA test done on Judah's bones or ossuary since you wrote your fascinating book?I read your book in one sitting WOW!!!----I just couldn't put it down until I was finished.Thank you for presenting it to the world!!! It does change my view on bible archeology and it's impact on Christianity.What an eye-opening revelation!!
Name:johndaly •
Date: 04/04/07 11:48
A: I've read a few of the comments under this 'heading' and wish to make one more.
When we can't explain something, be it scientific, religious, etc., we automatically attribute it to a 'higher being,' a god, calling it a miracle, or something like that? For as long as there has been rationale thought, like our ancestors gazing up at the stars, previous contreversial archeological discoveries like the Dead Sea Scrolls, we have said it must be god's doing? We have fought wars, killed millions, in the name of religion! Religion, espcially the major organized ones, is just humankinds attempt to rationalize the unexplainable! We must stop, by default, giving some un-nammed god, all the credit when no logical explanation exists. Evidence will eventually surface, that will provide the data to show us the truth, no matter what person or organization tries to discredit it.
Name:Elizabeth •
Date: 04/04/07 19:26
A: Dear Johndaly,
I heard a wise comment in which I think could apply to miracles.
(Forgive me if it is not verbatim.)
"God doesn't take out nature, but manipulates it."
I agree. I think all miracles can be explained, eventually, but that it is "when" and "what" occurs that makes it a miracle.
Nature is God's creation. It is His to use.
I agree mankind has used God in destructive aggression- but why should God be apocryphal because of mankind's behavior?
Blessings, ED
Name:Miles •
Date: 04/14/07 16:47
A: Sadinoel
1) I am afraid that you don’t have that data set and that was my point. They used the best data set available and there is a measure of validity in their method. Though no one is arguing that it is exact, there is a logical correlation. It would be similar to going to cemeteries representing an ethnically homogeneous community of 25,000 to 75,000, defining a period of time for burials, randomly selecting a few hundred graves in that subset, cataloguing the frequency of common names and then if you matched against a known population list (city hall, census, phone book, etc), I would bet that names like John, William and Charles would have a good correlation in frequency. I suggest that you do a hundred such communities. I bet that you find a bell curve with a very defined and narrow range for the common names. Let me know if your data shows otherwise. This will be your best path for objection. I recall that the name Jesus had a 9% frequency in their survey. I suppose if 42% were really named Jesus they would need to do over. On the other hand, if only 3% were really named Jesus, it would look dimmer for your objection.
2) That denigration only reflects personal predudice.
3) I don’t think either you or I are in a position to judge the character of Oded Golan and whether the alleged possession of some forged antiquities in a sizable collection of antiquities is mischievous. Beyond that, guilt by association for Simcha Jacobovici isn’t a rational argument, doesn’t hold up in court, and isn’t good method. (Actually, your method seems to be that those that have the opposing view are dumb, dishonest, greedy and gullible. I don’t think the personal assault method of defending your positions really enhances your presentation). In regard to the IAA, Their oxygen absorption method of testing in these circumstances has been deemed worthless and irrelevant by professionals in the field. Their test actually flagged the opposite conclusion (that the James portion was forged and that the brother of Jesus portion was real). They knew this distinction and didn’t bother to report it. Credibility? More like malfeasance. I do wonder if there are not some sensitivities and awareness of Israeli governmental agencies about a relevant political base within the fundamentalist community within the United States. Other in field experts would stake their career on the inscription being authentic. Beyond this, the patina on the ossuary matches the spectrogram of the patina on the Jesus and Mariamne ossuary, while having no correlation to 12 other ossuaries from other sites. That kind of data is significant. I hope all of the ossuaries can be tested. It could be an indisputable baseline. The current odds in this regard don’t look very good for your position. Further, there may be mitochondrial DNA that can be matched. (For me this will be win-win opportunity since ‘no match’ could have provenance issues and a ‘match’ will make it a certainty. Sorry). How can you oppose a best investigation going forward?
4) Actually, null hypothesis for floating is not unrelated or changing the subject. These are two bound and mutually exclusive events. The likelihood of one damages the possibility of the other. The light is either on or off when you close the refrigerator door. Your contention that the light is on, instead of off, when the door is closed is especially bad when the filament is discontinuous and the refrigerator is unplugged. Did he float or was he lovingly placed to rest in the family tomb? Floating contradicts all of our experience, has no empirical data, textual reference is easily explained as allegory or metaphor or other misconstruction and this would have been an amazing event that would have been overlooked and ignored or forgotten in other accounts by followers (however 2nd generation). I think the sorry thing is that the literal requirement is not really needed in Christianity and only lessens the focus on the message and philosophy and pointlessly traps much of Christendom in their doctrine.
5) It is no rare event for humans to give their life for causes, right or wrong, throughout history. I simply think that what you think was their cause and understanding and what they thought are two different prospects. I don’t think the Judeo-Christians of the 1st century had the same doctrinal requirement that the medieval system imposed on Christianity. They found cause in message without having to believe that Jesus floated. Jesus never really seems to have taught his followers that he was God and that they should worship him rather than the message he embraced in his teachings and example. I think that part came later, with the bureaucracy, as the church gained political power and the ‘Christians’ that controlled the institution for the next 1500 years and set doctrine exiled , tortured and murdered all those that had another perspective (and destroyed their culture and records). I don’t think that this was what Jesus had in mind.
6) the personal diatribe doesn't merit response
Name:QuebecIndieAnna •
Date: 01/25/09 13:15
A: I'd ask him to copy and paste onto one page some of the posts from this forum that he find worth mentioning again.
Indie
Name:larosa •
Date: 04/23/09 0:05
A: Simcha, does anyone have a report stating the names on each of the ossuaries found grouped together, "in situ", inside each of the five occupied compartments of the tomb? The diagram of the tomb's layout shows only one empty compartment,on the left, in the north wall. I am particularly interested in finding out the names on the three ossuaries found grouped together in the compartments on the west and east walls nearest the entrance; in addition to the name on the ossuary found on the right side of the north wall. Each of those compartments appeared to have a skull placed in front of it. Is that where the 'James' ossuary was initially found?
Secondly, in regards to the other three ossuaries that are decorated similiar to the one inscribed with Jude son of Jesus; my theory is they are the ossuaries of Jesus and Mary's unspecified daughters.
Name:Judith •
Date: 04/23/09 23:30
A: larosa you said:
my theory is they are the ossuaries of Jesus and Mary's unspecified daughters.
did you mean to say Joseph and Mary or Jesus and Mary Magdalene
Name:larosa •
Date: 04/24/09 0:33
A: Hi Judith. This is Larosa. I am referring to daughters of Jesus and Mary Magdalene. Certain books (Holy Blood, Holy Grail) make mention of Jesus and Mary having had daughter(s).
Prof- Shimon Gibson was the young doctoral student in the tomb in the spring of 1980 hours after a construction site bulldozer exposed the entrance to the tomb. I was in the east section of the city later that summer and I remember the sounds of construction at 4 and 5 in the morning. It was a busy time construction wise in Jerusalem...
The question you pose is one I also am curious to know the answer to.
I fear that the answer might be that since the team arrived on the construction site just before the weekend, there was a rush to get it emtied before orthodox Jews 'descended' on the place to prevent them getting what they could from the ancient tomb. The then young Gibson (my impression) dis not have time to determine which box was in which niche. If that was known, if the 3 were Jesus, Mary and child, then I think much would have been made of that placing.
Another question I had was regarding the skulls.
If the tomb was closed for as many centuries as is thought, and opened for the first time in 1980, would it be right to wonder if bodies were in their 1st year of internment (in the decomposing phase) (or pre-bone-box phase)? If so, given the number of centuries such remains were left, given also that bone material was observed on the surface of the decomposition shelves, could the skulls have simply rolled off and fallen to the floor during an earthquake? Much has been made about so-called 'placement' of 3 skulls on the floor. But, I have wondered if there is a simpler explanation to the 3 strangely places skulls.
Indie
.
Name:Judith •
Date: 04/27/09 6:53
A: I may one day have several questions , but for now it is on the topic of a possible Roman Soldier , namely the one called Panther. Could a Soldier get away with defying orders and remove Jesus and give the body to designated persons? It is implyed in James Whitehead poetry that Pantera was there , in Whiteheads imagination , of course . How hard would it have been for a unknown father to be there for his son's execution?
Name:larosa •
Date: 04/27/09 22:26
A: Indie, According to reports, it took Gath and Gibson eleven days to excavate the tomb at which time they maticulously listed each ossurary in each compartment as a,b or c. How would they know one a,b, c from the other, if n their was not a way to identify the ossuraries in each compartment other than by letter. Locating the names on each ossuary would have been very significant to the process. Gath told his wife that he believed he had excavated the tomb of Jesus' family. What would have prompted him to think.
Secondly, the three skulls and crushed bones found on the floor were layered by years of dirt (for lack of the proper word). Broken ossuaries were reportedly also found on the floor. Sounds as if someone had privy to the tombs skulls & bones years, if not centuries, before the 1980 excuvation.
