Name:MAriAnna72 •
Title: Who was Jesus to you?? More lies from Church!! •
Date posted: 05/29/07 14:41
Q: I believe Jesus was not a wood carpenter like long believed and taught by the Churches. I think this is a lie!
I believe he was a stone mason. The word in Hebrew "Tekton" means a craftsperson. likely in stone, NOT wood.
"The Western (Wailing) Wall is all that remains of the Jerusalem Temple where Jesus ministered. This wall formed part of the Plaza within the Temple area. King Herod's remodeling project began in 19 B.C. and continued long after his death. So Jesus is in adulthood at this time. It was barely completed only a few years before the Romans came and destroyed the Temple in 70 AD.
Herod employed 1,000 priests trained in Masonry to help build the extension. Also he employed 10,000 laborers .
Likely Jesus was one of these laborers, In Gods infinite wisdom and love, his own son had a hand in building the temple, so he could rightfully claim that it was his "Father's Temple. "And he said to them, "It is Written, "my House will be called a house of prayer, but you are making it a cave of robbers." Matthew 21:13
It was prophesied."This is what Jehovah has said, "Here is the man whose name is Sprout. And from his own place he will sprout, and he will certainly build the temple of Jehovah. ." Zecharia 6:12
1 Peter, 2:4-9 "To whom coming as unto a LIVING STONE, disallowed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, Ye also as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, a royal priethood to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God and to Christ. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, "Behold, I lay in sion a CHIEF CORNER STONE, elect precious...the STONE that the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, and a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.
The temple walls were made up of large well cut stones, the smallest was two tons. But the southwest CORNER, particulary sturdy construction used a STONE of 50 TONS!! laid in alternating rows of east, west , north, and so on.
Matthew 21:42 "the STONE that the builders rejected, is the one that has become the chief CORNERSTONE.
In your words, who was Jesus to you, In your heart, who do you believe he was?
Name:Panluna •
Date: 05/29/07 16:11
A: Hi MAriAnna72,
To me Jesus was a spiritual pacifist who was also a teacher.They called him Rabbi.He was Hebrew in heritage.Christianity was developed by his followers after his crucifixtion.For some the Christian religion became their salvation and for others it became a source of political power.
Name:Not Dattaswami •
Date: 05/30/07 0:18
A: .
Name:jared •
Date: 06/21/07 21:58
A: Name: Not Dattaswami • Date: 05/29/07 20:18
Sorry if this may offend some of you. But Dattaswami may be annoying but he does have a right to his say.
Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant; they too have their story.
P.S he is a pain
Name:Panluna •
Date: 06/21/07 23:08
A: jared,
Many listen,not all hear.I had enjoyed the posts from Dattaswami as I do from everyone.There s alot to learn from the people who have posted for past several months.Enjoy reading them and welcome to the posts.
Name:betty47 •
Date: 07/30/07 5:13
A: The problem with his posts are that they go on and on. People should get to the point if they want to make one. But I agree everyone should be able to be heard.
As to who Jesus was. I believe he was a Jewish Rabbi who believed deeply in his Judaism, and died for it. He didn't die for our sins. That's was invented later. History twisted his words around and somehow we ended up with Christianity. But I find deep meaning in Jesus' words, and also deep meaning in the Torah, which Jesus quoted from often, which many of today's Christians are not willing to admit. Will people go to hell if they don't believe in Jesus? I think that's only a lie started by those wishing to convert others to Christianity who try in vain to prove their religion is the true one. Jesus would not condem his own people to hell, and I think when he returns, it will be the people who twisted his words, and continue to twist them, who will be condemed, if there is such a place called hell.
Name:Panluna •
Date: 07/30/07 12:45
A: Betty47,
I agree with your statements but I also believe that we can make life on Earth heaven or hell depending on attitude and behaviour.
Name:sam •
Date: 08/01/07 23:37
A: MAriAnna72 ,
At the end of your post you brought a general question which can be devided to two parts:
A- In your words, who was Jesus to you, In your heart,?
First, I would like to say that A MAN'S Heart can be misleading [as we will see in the following where the heart can be subjected to other power that might come from other people or other teaching * ], so, the only way to come to the truth is to go direct to the words of Jesus, that came from His heart, those words that came to Him and put into His heart by God.
J- 14:24 THE WORD WHICH YOU HEAR IS NOT MINE, BUT THE FATHER'S (GOD) WHO SENT ME.
Second, * a SAMPLE: the believe as it can be in different hearts:
--- As for the Jews, Jesus was regarded as a false Messiah from the beginning until now.
--- As for the Christians,
IN THE BEGINNING , .... while Jesus was alive, and in the beginning of spreading His message, He was known as a teacher, and the son of man, the son of David, the son of May and a prophet:
BY HIS OWN WORDS:
J- 8:28 WHEN YOU LIFT UP THE SON OF MAN, THEN YOU WILL KNOW THAT I AM HE.
J- 13:13 YOU CALL ME TEACHER AND LORD; AND YOU ARE RIGHT, FOR SO I AM.
ALSO, He mentioned Himself as a PROPHET:
J- 4:44 FOR JESUS HIMSELF TESTIFIED THAT A PROPHET HAS NO HONOR IN HIS OWN COUNTRY.
Mark- 6:3/4 Is not this the carpenter, the son of mary, and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon?. Are not His sisters here with us? AND THEY TOOK OFFENSE AT HIM. Jesus said to them, "A PROPHET IS NOT WITHOUT HONOR EXCEPT IN HIS HOMETOWN AND AMONG HIS OWN RELATIVES AND IN HIS OWN HOUSEHOLD."
[Jesus is a prophet by His own words. those who took offense at Him are His brothers and sisters (His own household)....]
BY HIS FOLLOWERS WORDS:
Mat- 21:9 The crowds going ahead of Him, and those who followed, were shouting,
"Hosanna to SON OF DAVID; Blessed is He WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD (GOD);...... [HE IS NOT GOD. HE CAME IN THE NAME OF GOD]
21:10 When He had entered Jerusalem, all the city was stirred, SAYING, "WHO IS THIS?"
21:11 AND THE CROWDS [His people and His followers] WERE SAYING, "THIS IS THE PROPHET JESUS, from Nazareth in Galilee."
[So, who we should believe?. Jesus and His followers, or Paul and the Emperors and the bishops and the Rev etc. AND YOU AND THE OTHERS?.]
ONLY THE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN THE WORDS OF JESUS WILL KNOW THE ANSWER, AND THOSE WHO FOLLOW THEIR OWN HEART AND NOT JESUS HEART THEY ARE MISLEAD, FOR SURE.
THEN AFTER CAME PAUL. And he changes Jesus words from the "the son of man", "the teacher & the Rabbi" and "the prophet'" to the son of God.
THEN AFTER CAME THE ROMAN EMPERORS, AND THE BISHOPS. And a new formula was created "THE TRINITY", they made God in three persons, and while Jesus mentioned that He will be sitting on the right hand of God, they claim that Jesus is God!!!. [NO LOGIC]. And while Jesus was praying to God , they give their prayers to Jesus!!!!:
Luke- 6:12 It was at this time that He went off to the mountain TO PRAY, and HE SPENT THE WHOLE NIGHT IN PRAYER TO GOD.
Jesus pray to God. But the Christians make Jesus God and pray to Him, where is the LOGIC?.
---- As for the Muslims. Jesus is a PROPHET, a messenger from God, as Abraham and Moses and the rest. [I think they believe in Jesus words and God words that came later in the Quran.]
B- who do you believe he was? .
---- I think this question should come as the following : "What was Jesus believe He was?". Since it is not important what we believe about Jesus but what Jesus believe about Himself, and we will know this fact from His words.
After saying that, I will ask THE QUESTION "WHO IS RIGHT", to all who read my words.
Jesus said:
"Why do you call Me good? NO ONE IS GOOD EXCEPT GOD ALONE."
"THE ONE AND ONLY GOD"
"THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD."
"HE WHO IS IN HEAVEN."
"THAT THEY MAY KNOW YOU, THE ONLY TRUE GOD"
"AND JESUS CHRIST WHOM YOU (GOD) HAVE SENT. (AS A MESSENGER, A PROPHET).
And the Christians say:
"Jesus is the son of God"
"Jesus a man God"
"Jesus is the second person of the trinity"
"Jesus is God"
"Jesus is the God who created everything (the universe)
Jesus said:
"I CAN DO NOTHING ON MY OWN INITIATIVE"
"THE FATHER HIMSELF WHO SENT ME [GOD WHO SENT ME] HAS GIVEN ME A COMMANDMENT AS TO WHAT TO SAY AND WHAT TO SPEAK." [Jesus is not God but God sent Him and gave him commandment even to the words that He speaks, can the Christians understand this fact and the truth about Jesus, and believe in what Jesus said and what God said?.]
WHO IS RIGHT?, and that is a very important thing to know and to understand, and to give your answer.
Those who claim that God had a son, and those who claim that Jesus is God are saying words against God and they will be judged by God and not by Jesus:
Mat- 12:31/32 Therefore I (Jesus) say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, BUT BLASPHEMY AGAINST THE SPIRIT (GOD) SHALL NOT BE FORGIVEN. WHOEVER SPEAKS A WORD AGAINST THE SON OF MAN (JESUS), IT SHALL BE FORGIVEN HIM;
BUT WHOEVER SPEAKS AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT (GOD) , IT SHAT NOT BE FORGIVEN HIM, either in this age or the age to come.
[people can be be forgiven if they speaks against Jesus, but if they speaks against God they will never be forgiven. That shows very clear that Jesus is not God, and those who claim that Jesus is God they will be judged by God only].
Here come the truth again, and who is He?, accordind to His word which He clearly describe Himself in relation to God:
J- 13:16 TRULY, TRULY, I SAY TO YOU [Jesus mentioned twice, so the others will have no doubt about what He said] , A SLAVE IS NOT GREATER THAN HIS MASTER, [that is an example], NOR IS ONE WHO IS SENT [that is is Jesus Himself] GREATER THAN THE ONE WHO SENT HIM [that is God who sent Jesus].
( Jesus relation to God as the relation between the slave and his master. And those who claim that Jesus is God are caliming things against the words of Jesus and the words of God).
People are free to choose what to believe in, God gave them the brain and the methods to find the truth, but they should not forget that they will be judged and fairly by God, and Jesus gave us examples, and His words showed us the truth, so that we follow. If you follow God and His messenger you are saved , but if you follow blindly you will end in the PIT.
Our journey on this earth is very short, and " we sould do our best as if we live forever, and we should do our best for that day [the judgment day] when we face God as if we are going to die tomorrow". That is what the prophet Muhammad said.
The Quran said:
Q - 2:62 "Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans [before prophet Muhammad] , those, among them who believed in God and the last day and did righteousnesss, will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve."
Q- 41:46 Whoever does righteousness, it is for his soul; and whoever does evil [does so] against it. And your Lord is not ever unjust to [His] servants.
Q- 5:76 Say, "Do you worship beside GOD that which holds for yoy no [power of] harm or benefit while it is GOD who is the Hearing, the knowing?"
Question, How can people worship Jesus as God, when Jesus said to them, "I CA DO NOTHING ON MY OWN INITIATIVE" ?.
It is the truth that some people are programmed to axcept or reject things, just because those who lead them say so !!!, forgetting, that each person is responsible for himsel, and should seek the truth from wherever it comes, and no one can help in that day when a person will be in the presence of God, in that day there is no title, the prophet, the king, and all the gold of this world will not help, because God will look at what person done, good or evil, and will be judged accordingly.
The prophet Muhammad said , "seek the knowledge even in China". That means no one should chain himself to the only knowledge that been given to him but he should look for it everywhere [in every place], and the prophet knows that the people in China are disbelievers, but that should not stop a person from looking for knowledge and science and the truth,( the word "UTLOUB" came in the Quran,in Arabic means "SEEK" and the word " AL-AILM" has those meanings "KNOWLEDGE, SCIENCE".
"AALAMA AL -INSAN MA LAM YAALAM" ... [GOD] "TAUGHT MAN THAT WHICH HE KNEW NOT." Q- 96:5
God bless you.
Name:Anchorite •
Date: 08/02/07 21:08
A: Hi Panluna,
I totally agree in that I believe we have the power to make life on Earth a total Heaven or a total Hell depending on our decisions and actions.
THE BLUE MARBLE
Soft cloud
Hard rock
Earth's round
Air lock
Blue on blue
Shade on shade
A sweet and a dark
What dreams are made
Moral as a barber pole
A record breaking broken record
Of cursing and delight
The hub of chub
Of random atom
What cogitates escape
~ Anchorite
Name:Panluna •
Date: 08/02/07 23:07
A: Anchorite,
Good poem!
Name:luke64 •
Date: 01/31/08 22:37
A: No offence to any Christians I was a formar Christian.
What ever he was (Jesus) He is not God.
Nobody will ever find in whole Bible (any version) a single clear-cut verse where Jesus himself said "I am god or worship me"
I am not talking about out of context words that are not of Jesus.
or a pastors Opinion I am talking of Jesus Himself saying it.
Also God has a lot of children in the Bible so him saying God is his father means nothing. All we need to care about is the Bible not what the Church say, Because some churches now allow Gay marrage Would Jesus approve of this? So lets just keep to the Bible.
And why did Jesus complain when he was put on the Cross?
