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Name: osirius608 •
Title: Yeshua ben Pandira •
Date posted: 03/01/07 20:18
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Q: Has anyone read of this man who also was crucified for being different?
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Name: lightwoman •
Date: 03/09/07 7:57 |
A: I think Yeshua ben Pandira (or Pantera) was a derrogatory name for Yeshua/Jesus by non-followers that came from rumors or hypotheses that Mary had been raped by a Roman soldier named Pantera, suggesting Jesus was not born of a virgin, but was the bastard of a Roman, giving him an axe to grind against the Romans - hence his (or his followers') claim to Messiahship as King of the Jews, flaunting Caesar and Roman authority. I believe this was early during the debate to refute the virgin birth story and that Jesus was human, not divine. If I'm correct, there is some historical record of this in as to the debate and the claims/rumors/gossip (in certain Jewish texts?). Whether it's true or not, don't know.
For those who don't believe in the virgin birth, this is an alternative story/theory to explain Mary's "condition" out of wedlock, as opposed to say, Mary and Joseph, who were engaged, just sneaking some nookie prior to the wedding. ;-) My goodness, people love to gossip, even way back then!
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Name: Shlomo •
Date: 03/12/07 2:30 |
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A: Lightwomen - that is one of four stories in the Talmud. You are correct it was a derogatory name. Also the Hebrew word in Isaiah 7:14 was not the word "virgin" [ betulah ], it was written as "alma" [ young woman]. Jesus belonged the seditious Galileen people in northern Israel. Their leader was killed in 6 ce. So someone needed to take over the reins. This would put Jesus near 12 yrs old and ripe for training till he was in his mid-twenties.
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Name: sojourner •
Date: 04/17/08 15:34 |
A: Shlomo--thank you for this point about Galilee. From my reading, I think it is a crucial one for understanding the historical context.
Could you explain further about the stories from the Talmud? Us gentiles are not familiar with these texts.
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Name: wilted desert rose •
Date: 07/04/14 23:54 |
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A: I read the "Jesus Dynasty" Pantera was explained pretty good there, but Pantera was not Roman. That Roman Solder was Syrian, and it might be , if some one did the genealogy of Laban, there may be a relationship there. According to the book there was a Pander or Panthers family tomb excavated in Israel , I don't recall if that was a royal family
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