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Name: graham •
Title: simple people •
Date posted: 03/06/07 18:47
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Q: ok I have read post saying that the people around the 1st century were simple people and just followed blindly......wow amazing.....the facts speak loudly if you know your history......on the contrary these people were very very complex.....ten times more so then todays people....first off to even live back then you had to know a trade ...and be exeptionaly skilled at it to even get by.....no one ....I mean no one is as skilled as these people were.....2nd they lived in turbulant times....and had to survive.....get food for there family and....they had the environment and knew how to live in it.....most of us would die of exposure within days.....ok they mined for gold....and gems could you do this with there "simple knowledge" ....it seems you take your preconcieved notions about the past and applie them to these people...the fact is your thinking does go back but only to the dark ages and applies what those people did and knew to the people at the first century....people knew medicine back then and were skilled at more then just there trades they had to multitask to survive because there was no convience stores and no hospitals or even fast food.....we are ten times more simple then those people were....heck even in the dark ages they built cathedrals that our science today says is impossible for it to still be standing without concrete....simple...huh...? there are tons of examples....can you make even a ossuray and have it survive 2k years?.a simpel box.......or make anything last as long as these people did.....no you cannot...so who is the simple one...not to mention writing nothing you write will be remember for long....these peoples words are still remembered take the dead sea scrolls proof that the Word has not been altered.....geesh believe me if they were sop simple they would not be remembered today....and you people discount prayer ....wow prayer has shaped and developed nations as we see them today and has driven people to do amazing things.....miracle...? or prayer does not exist either...and that is one way people speak to God and Jesus Christ......it exists and influenced people.....just a simple prayer .....that is so powerful you cannot discount it...read your history learn soimething other then what one person says is true....I do not discount that simcha found a tomb that had names in it.....but are the names what he says they are....no one can know ......for sure ...you just have faith and belief....so his presumtions are not facts.... I know the truth in my heart...
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Name: kbob •
Date: 03/06/07 20:07 |
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A: Your "argument" makes no sense. To say that the people from the first centry were far more complex than todays modern man is laughable at best. Yes they adapted to be able to live in a desert climate. Just as the people of the Middle East still do today. That is a function of enviroment not skill or knowledge. You think a first century person could send a shuttle to the moon? How about perform a successful heart transplant? You also assume that ANYONE reading your post is just an insignificat blip on the radar of life and will not be remembered for anything. That's a pretty big assumption don't you think? If you want to argue the case then so be it. But please, use a little common sense and try to do it in at least a semi educated sounding way and not just spout off the first thing that pops into your head.
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Name: slyfoxx •
Date: 03/06/07 20:54 |
A: Hmmmmmmm.....I'm agreeing with the last poster. I'm an educated person...maybe not in every trade but certainly in my own. I have a problem with not only the bible but alot of literature that supposedly came from that era. If you go back 200 - 300 years there was a large portion of the population that couldn't read or write. Scholars could but most didn't make it past primary grades. Lets go back 500 years.....how many do you think could read and write then??? How many could translate from language to language??? Probably not many. Now...the bible being thousands and thousands of years old, who could have read it?? Who could have translated it?? What was lost in the translation?? What was open to interpretation??? So let's say....scholars....rich folk...monks.....had this education.....do you think they are going to tell the story from the angle of the disciples?? From the poor mans angle?? From the sinners angle?? or from their own?? Are they going to use it to suit themselves as a source of power or control??
So much doesn't add up...
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Name: kbob •
Date: 03/06/07 21:59 |
A: sly:
So far all I have heard is quotes of the Bible. I am waiting for someone to present irrefutable proof that the Bible they read today is an EXACT and accurate accounting of events of thousands of years ago. I grew up believeing in God, Jesus and the Bible. I still do. However, I have an open mind and believe that religion, especially organized religion has gotten so muddy and diluted and corrupt that it's difficult to discern between what is fact and what is fiction taught to control the "masses". The best way to control a very large group of people is with "Blind Faith". I happen to believe that the God I believe in will not sentence me to eternity in hell for asking questions. Man put together the New Testament, Man formed Organized religion. Man has proven over and over again to be dishonest, distrustful, violent and downright evil in some cases. Am I to just blindly follow and take literally what a Kin commissioned. Gee, I can't imagine what motives a Kind might have can you?
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Name: slyfoxx •
Date: 03/06/07 22:08 |
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A: I beleive in God too.....but i also believe in a Goddess. I completely understand where you're coming from and i must agree. I've not seen any proof
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Name: kbob •
Date: 03/06/07 22:14 |
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A: Yea!!!! I'm happy to hear it. Let's form our own church. Well call the Church of the never ending quest for truth and knowledge. LOL
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Name: slyfoxx •
Date: 03/06/07 22:16 |
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A: LOL!!! Well I don't have a church but I'm an eclectic solitaire. I'm Pagan. I'm very proud of my beliefs but this new discovery interests me very much
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Name: kbob •
Date: 03/06/07 22:27 |
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A: Pagan..... Interesting........ I have studied and researched several of the incidents from the Bible and compared them with Pagan rituals. It's very interesting indeed. There are so many parallels it's incredible.
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Name: slyfoxx •
Date: 03/06/07 22:29 |
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A: Well.....after the crusades the Christians tried to "incorporate" holidays to include the pagans. Most Christian rituals and holidays and the such are originally Pagan.
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Name: kbob •
Date: 03/06/07 22:40 |
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A: Yes I know. However, the Bible it's self it chocked full of situations that follow Pagan rituals.
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Name: kbob •
Date: 03/06/07 22:47 |
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A: Sorry, I repeated myself.
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Name: KRS •
Date: 03/07/07 3:03 |
A: KBob, you might be surprised to know, then, that we can be more certain of the wording of the New Testament than we can any other book from the ancient world. We have a number of Manuscript copies that were copied a little before 200 AD (particularly of Luke and John) - in the case of John this puts it about a century after the authorship of the book - These Manuscripts are fragmented, so they aren't complete, however, they have been examined against the fairly important and complete fourth century Alexandrian manuscripts. The match is phenomenally close - no substantive changes (a little variation in word order and spelling, those types of things). If you examine the Manuscript evidence for the New Testament you find that the level of variation is farily minimal (compared, for example to the gnostic infancy narrative of Thomas of which the two or three copies are extremely divergent). We have more than five thousand Greek Manuscripts (the language that the New Testament) so it is the best attested book in the world.
To give you an idea of how phenomenal that really is, let me give you the stats of the second best preserved work from the ancient world. Homer's illiad has about five hundred copies (about one tenth of the Greek copies of the New Testament), and the gap between the time when the book was written and the oldest copy extant is over five hundred years.
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Name: KRS •
Date: 03/07/07 3:08 |
A: KBob,
You also might like to know that in first Century Judah, most of the inhabitants were Bi-lingual (speaking Greek and Aramaic) and had a pretty good literacy rate, for men it would be well over 90% of the general population- we know this because we know something about their education system they had.
Also, FYI, the ideas about Pagan practice and its influence on the Bible is a bit overstated by quite a bit - the so called pagan rites are usually based on documents that were written well after the Bible (particularly those trying to connect the New Testament to the mystery religions) or they are extremely hypothetical arguments.
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Name: kbob •
Date: 03/07/07 16:33 |
A: KRS
Site me some facts that are rock solid. Other than the bible says so. You are sounding a bit like a broken record stating the same thing and using all the buzz words. "Scholars say" "The bible says". You are wrong all over the board about various things. In a nutshell the Bible and Christianity are a lot like Bill Gates and Microsoft. They both came up with a great thing that mass marketed well and made them a fortune. But the fact of the matter is, neiter was an original idea. They both borrowed someone elses/religions ideas and tweaked them to make their own version. End of story.
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Name: canweread •
Date: 03/07/07 18:02 |
A: To All...
If you want proof. There is a book that has it. "The Case for Christ". It was written by an atheist journalist (at least at the time) Lee Strobel. Like myself, I needed proof. I found this book an spent some considerable time looking at the evidence that he presented and now have what I needed. It is not one-sided. It gives arguments from both sides and let's the reader decide. Take the time out to check it out.
With that said, let me just state one thing that sticks out in my mind... The world has no problem believing history that has been written hundreds of years after the fact, but the only historical document that is found closest to it's origins has been discarded as false, because it claims things that would make us have to change our "Worldly View" of thinking. Also, if you take a look at Christianity throughout the Bible and History, all Empires who claimed to be Godly that failed was because of worldly gain becoming their focus instead of focusing on GOD. Not the other way around.
I am not a scholar and can't quote the exact passage, but, I believe it says somewhere in the Bible it says..."it is better to not have known Him than to have known him and turn away".
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