Name:Kelly •
Title: to Christians and non-Christians... •
Date posted: 03/05/07 1:03
Q: Dear Christians and Non-Christians, and everyone in between...
I exhort Christians on this site to always remember to be charitable *in all things*.
I know it's really frustrating to one's intellect(and goodness knows it's a personal
weakness in me that when people's logic is flawed I tend to get snooty...)but we are
called to bless those who "persecute" us and pray for people. I apologize for people
who out of frustration have hoped people who support the "Jesus tomb" theory have said
they want people to burn in Hell after death when they realize Jesus really IS risen.
This is, of course, not how we Christians are supposed to act, and I truly hope everyone
who doesn't believe in orthodox Christianity comes to know the peace, love, and truth
of the risen Yeshua. :)
My fellow Christians, we are always called to be loving and understanding towards others,
even when they are not doing likewise and when our flesh is fighting it. We rise above arguments
because we have reason on our side, and with reason. Truth cannot and does not contradict
truth. Now, with that said...
I have read around the posts on this forum a little bit. There seem to be some main issues
that keep getting brought up ~
One is that Saint Paul somehow "changed" the true messages of the Messiah and this is
also tangled in people asserting that the Church of Rome(why always we Catholics get
blamed is beyond me, since there are other Church's just as ancient like the Eastern
Orthodox that believe just as we do in the basics...)"made up" the Rising of Jesus
and the fact that He is God and the Trinity, not to mention to Virgin Birth. Many
reasons are brought up, such as wanting to "appeal" to Pagans. (the early Christians,
who are historically proven to believe in all the above, certainly were not interested
in "appealing" to Pagans when they were being thrown to the lions, but I digress ^^)
None of that is true, and anyone who knows basic Christian theology, history, logic and
reasoning (including fallacies), and the theology and history of Paganism will understand
this.
As for Paul "changing" Christianity, if you believe this, please give the other point
of view a look. http://christian-thinktank.com/musly1.html#nogospel Is a good place to
start. I love this man's site, and sincerely apologize to him for the influx in hits,
but the site is truly a great one and has a great layout for skeptics and Christians
to search out common objections to orthodox Christianity. It has great articles
for the Christian intellectual. No folks, we do not believe on "blind faith" and there
is no contradiction between faith and reason.
I have been reading up and studying on Gnostic Christian beliefs, early Christian heresies,
skeptic arguments against the faith since I was about 17 years old. That these new
"alternative" beliefs being brought up recently with things like Dan Brown's book and
people on this forum is somewhat frustrating to me in that they are neither "new" nor
"crushing" to Christianity. It's the same old story from the ancient Church mothers and
fathers as it is today. There is nothing new under the sun.
...Including a tomb discovered in 1980 that is now being trotted out by James Cameron
as some radical thing that is going to crush orthodox Christianity. I must
say that is a HUGE fan of the Discovery channel and History channel that I am disappointed
in them for putting out some hype to make some money and get new subscribers. If this
"discovery" were published in some sort of scholarly journal first and opened to scrutiny
and debate that would have been kind of nifty. ~.o But, alas...
My brothers and sisters in Christ don't let this bother you. It is what it is and it
is neither shattering to orthodox Christianity nor new. The "James Ossuary" thing
that went down a few years ago is a proven hoax, and this this study even brings up
that ossuary as maybe fitting in this family tomb makes the whole thing highly suspect.
If I am wrong, I apologize, but from what I have read online this is something that is
being asserted by the Jesus Tomb special. I am going to watch it tonight, so we'll see
if that's an issue. Either way,let's not let our nerves get all frazzled. Let the special
run, let it be scrutinized, let the air around it settle and then some real scholarly
insights into it will come up.
It's kind of funny because I was thinking they were going to trot out some "alternative"
"Christian" scholars like Matthew Fox, and lo and behold, was that him I saw in the
preview? ~.o Another one I have been following since my teens. I think it's very
unfortunate that people who should know better about real orthodox Christian theology
try to make a name for themselves by being "alternative". What I mean by this is
that there are scholars like Matthew Fox and people like them who have developed
a new "enlightened" Christianity that teaches that God is both Mother and Father,
that the Earth is sacred, that God is everywhere and in everything, that mysticism
is a healthy part of the Christian life...when....NONE of that is contrary to
orthodox Christian belief!!!! We believe all of the above.
I can say as a perfectly orthodox Roman Catholic
that I honor God as both Mother and Father.
See Saint Julian of Norwich,
Saint Francis of Assisi, Saint John of the Cross... you will find many, many others.
Also see the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
Finally, I see the implication that the Christian and Jewish faiths are anti-each other.
That makes me sad that so many people think that. :( True Christians see the Jews
as our elder brothers and sisters in faith of the one God(and no, the Trinity doesn't
compromise that, only a misunderstanding of the doctrine does). Sure, there are ignorant
"Christians" out there and there are also Jews out there who are keen on proving Yeshua
is not Messiah, but even so...chill, people. Let's not hate each other eh? By the way,
anyone who thinks Christianity contradicts Judaism should do an Internet search on
"messianic Judaism". There are fully orthodox Jews who believe that Yeshua is God in the
flesh. And that He is truly risen in His Body. Also do a web search on Jewish converts
like Saint Edith Stein.
That brings me to the next thing I want to address. On "theological considerations"
on this site it is implied that Christianity would still be the same of the Rising
of Jesus was only a spiritual one, and not a spiritual AND bodily one as orthodox
Christianity believes. This is incorrect. While heretical(people shy from this word
but it's not a value judgement on people, it merely means people with incorrect
theology)Christians such as gnostics and others such as ebiomites may not believe
in a bodily resurrection, traditional Christianity certainly does. It is central
to our beliefs.
Two more points: one is that if Jesus' body was neither risen nor stolen, why didn't
the ancient skeptics merely point to His bones?
Second, why would these "specialists" use certain facts from the New Testament
to "prove" this is Jesus' tomb to disprove the assertion in the NT that Jesus
has risen in body? It makes no logical sense, it's a very fishy circle.
Anyways, I'll be surprised if this allows me to post the whole thing I've written lol
But I felt I needed to say some things. Unfortunately, I will not be back to answer
any questions because I am recovering from illness and can't spend energy on people
flaming and fighting. Maybe when things calm down after the special.
I'd like to end my posting here with a traditional Christian prayer:
Lord, make me an instrument of Thy peace;
where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury, pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
and where there is sadness, joy.
O Divine Master,
grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console;
to be understood, as to understand;
to be loved, as to love;
for it is in giving that we receive,
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned,
and it is in dying that we are born to Eternal Life.
Amen.
~ I pray that the love and healing of my risen God rise in everyone's heart. As for me,
I live because my Redeemer lives. Peace. (and...do your research!~.o)
Name:Kelly •
Date: 03/05/07 1:10
A: * author's note, hah. I apologize for the typos. I have carpal tunnel syndrome and my typing isn't what it used to be.
A.M.D.G.
Name:truth •
Date: 03/05/07 7:16
A: For years people have replaced G-d with Jesus. I think G-d has had enough. Is your faith so weak that the bones of Jesus will make you abandon G-d? The Creator wants mankind to serve him in spirit and truth. It is said, “The truth will set you free!”
I find it strange that Judaism and Islam don’t view Jesus in the same manner as Christianity.
Is it not strange that Jesus was not thought of as god in flesh until years later? No where in the Jewish writings or Aramaic text does it state Jesus is a god.
Many of you will say it’s because the Jews killed him. You sadly mistaken and mislead. You have been lied to. Hoodwinked! Oppressed Jews didn’t have the authority to order anyone to be killed? The following are a few points to think about:
1)James, the brother of said in a debate over Jesus’ doctrine, that he (Jesus) never said, “He was the son of G-d.”
2)Jesus was Jewish, Jewish men marry and have families. Does not the Bible say, “He (Jesus) would kiss her (Mary) on her mouth often? As a Jew he would follow the law, would he not? Kissing her outside of marriage categorizes of fornication.
3)If the truth came out at this time the Catholic Church would lose billions of dollars and go into ruins. The people would know that they had been lying and leave the church.
4)The Orthodox Jews don’t want you to know the truth because you may try to become Jewish.
I will gather them from the four corners of earth, saith the L-rd our G-d. Some who believe in Jesus will become Muslims and those who don’t, Jews. I will make him (Ishmael) a Great Nation, saith the Lord our G-d.
5)My father would say, “If someone wants to rule over someone else all they have to do is Feed them and give them Money. And if they really want them to do what they say, Take It All Away!
Think about it, need I say more?
6) The Bible say’s, When the Messiah comes he will bring PEACE. We have not reached that state. However, I do see G-d unveiling the hearts of mankind and truth replacing the veil. Love never Fails!
7) READ, READ, READ, in the name of the L-rd. He will reveal the truth! Friday sundown to Sunday is not three days!
Lastly, I leave you the reader with this question. If there was no promise of Heaven or Hell would you continue to serve G-d? You say Yes, but would your heart still love Him the same if there were no streets paved of gold. Could you love Jesus for the doctrine he left Knowing that he is not G-d in flesh? ( G-d is G-d. Alone There is none else.) You would have to learn to TRUST G-d and Him Alone as does the Jew and Muslim.
